Soy Proteins??

[ZoomZoom88]

I just bought a jug of mhp Probolic SR, which has alot of soy protein in it. I was wondering how good of a protein powder this is, ive read that soy converts into extra estrogens in the body. Has anyone had experience with soy protein and/or MHP's Probolic SR?

 

[djbombsquad]

Where on pub med did you read that soy protein converts? I take soy every day look at my pictures and tell me soy makes me have boobs. Endless your reading mags its not true at all.

 

[ZoomZoom88]

Soy contains many isoflavones which act like estrogen in the body correct?

All im really looking for is if this protein i got half off is any good.

 

[theforesaken1]

This is as far as i know on this topic. They are like estrogens because they bind to estrogen receptors, much like estradiol and estrone do, but they produce a very weak estrogenic effect. So, my theory (no evidence to back this up) is that it works somewhat like Tomaxifen works. It will clog up estrogen receptor sites so that harsher, stronger estrogens like estrone can't attach and produce feminine affects. Technically, total estrogen levels may come up higher on a test, but you will see far less estrogenic side effects. Again, this is what i've come up with. it's my theory from research. I believe probolic is a good protein powder, but i never used it myself. it combines fast and slow acting proteins to give a "time released" affect. Hope that helps bro.

 

[ZoomZoom88]

Ive read that its pretty weak also.

 

[vpower]

One of the best proteins you can get is Hydrolyzed Casein. The di and tri peptides absorb 3x better than free form amino acids or longer chain proteins. I would avoid Soy protein altogether, I have heard of the phyto-estrogens in Soy than inhibit Testosterone Production. Hopefully somebody with more knowledge bout this will chime in.

 

[GeekPoop]

Ive also read soy can raise estrogen levels. Its garbage both IMO and IME. If youre after slow digesting casein all the way

 

[vpower]

To the OP, if you want the fastest and fully absorbing protein go with Hydrolyzed Casein

 

[ZoomZoom88]

damn, looks like i have to sell this **** to one of my friends, it goes for 69.99 at gnc, but i got it for 17.49 b/c i goes out-of-date in january.....i thought i got a good buy.

 

[nightfly71]

That's a myth.

http://ergo-log.com/soymilk.html

 

[vpower]

That's a myth.

http://ergo-log.com/soymilk.html

Thats a really legit source you just provided.....

 

[nightfly71]

Thats a really legit source you just provided.....

Ergo-log has tons of good info and study references.

 

[dietrich1972]

Keep this simple, avoid soy like the plague. The list of health problems is growing every year. It contains plant based female hormones called phytoestrogens. There is nothing good that can come from choosing soy over other higher quality proteins.

Even if you are a vegan then choose pea or rice protein instead and protect your health.

 

[nightfly71]

Keep this simple, avoid soy like the plague. The list of health problems is growing every year. It contains plant based female hormones called phytoestrogens. There is nothing good that can come from choosing soy over other higher quality proteins.

Even if you are a vegan then choose pea or rice protein instead and protect your health.

Nothing good? Is reduction of bad cholesterol and prevention of prostate cancer nothing good? Anyone who uses anabolics should be especially interested in both of those benefits, I would say. If you need more references that soy phytoestrogens don't actually function as estrogens int eh body, consider that gyno isn't rampant in China, and they eat a TON of soy. Here's a couple more references, though, just in case.

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA312211

http://vegrd.vegan.com/pages/article.php?id=219

 

[GeekPoop]

Look at chineese builds lol, just saying...

 

[nightfly71]

Look at chineese builds lol, just saying...

Most of that is going to be genetic. On the other hand, look at the build of Japanese Sumo wrestlers. The Japanese eat the hell out of soy, too. Bottom line, is if soy were to be avoided so as to not be full of gyno symptoms, Asians in general would have a pandemic of gyno. Obviously, this isn't the case.

I'm not saying it's the ideal protein, but it's also not to be shunned, since it has many health benefits, especially to those who use anabolics. Refer to the earlier post about prostate cancer protection and lowering of bad cholesterol. That ought to be great news to anyone who uses anabolics.

 

[CrazyChemist]

I don't believe all the hype about soy and estrogen but I still go with whey or casein. Thus my experience with soy is limited and I probably wouldn't chose to buy a soy protein in the future. That being said,

Keep this simple, avoid soy like the plague.

is a bit over-dramatic IMO.

 

[nightfly71]

Interesting study showing how soy can actually lower estrogen levels.

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/dietricinsoy.html

 

[Mindless]

Most of that is going to be genetic. On the other hand, look at the build of Japanese Sumo wrestlers. The Japanese eat the hell out of soy, too. Bottom line, is if soy were to be avoided so as to not be full of gyno symptoms, Asians in general would have a pandemic of gyno. Obviously, this isn't the case.

Well, I live in Japan and recently a documentary aired on TV, showing how a lot of young men have very low testosterone and way too high estrogen levels. They even showed that a bra for men is sold. What could that be for?
(Probably due to the fact that the soy industry is one of the country's biggest, bigger than rice,) Their conclusion was it's stress related.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[totalpackage]

I recommend staying away from soy because it is a cheap form of protein. It's funny how
MHP claims their protein is so great but when you look at their label the first protein
listed is soy which cost like $4.50 a lb. then it list whey concentrate which is $5.50 a lb.
and then the last is calcium cassinate which is actually more expensive than the first two
at $9.50 a lb. all of these are not the best in quality but it makes MHP more profit. If they really wanted to put out a quality protein blend especially at the price they are charging for a container the first protein in their blend should be whey isolate, micellular
casien, and egg white protein that blend would be worth the money.

 

[wedlund6]

i take soy pre workout a whey post casein at bed time works for me. i read soy boost no levels. and lowers estrogen levels.

 

[nightfly71]

Well, I live in Japan and recently a documentary aired on TV, showing how a lot of young men have very low testosterone and way too high estrogen levels. They even showed that a bra for men is sold. What could that be for?
(Probably due to the fact that the soy industry is one of the country's biggest, bigger than rice,) Their conclusion was it's stress related.

Just my 2 cents.

The Japanese are very hard chargers and the place is overcrowded. It stands to reason they're probably stressed out. I would say many Americans probably have low test, too.

In any case, I'd refer to the above study that shows how soy can actually lower estrogen levels. Take your pick...a documentary or a study.

 

[pcproffy]

I've seen a few here bashing the positive studies but no one has even put up a reference to support the negativity. Don't just say its a bad study and have absolutely nothing to back it up.

Since when does price equal effectiveness? The entire Supp industry is over priced IMO.

Soy has good bio-availability and a balance of all the aminos. If you got it at a killer price then good for you. Use it.

 

[matthias7]

There have been rumours circulating around soy for some time.

Its not worth the risk IMO.

Interfering with test production is the main reason cited. How it interplays in the androgens I dunno. A top nutritionist I hired told me never to touch it as a main protein source, but okay in occasional doses. They were hazy on the reasons too.

Their advise was to use pea protein if you want a veg. source.

 

[soontobbeast]

To the OP, if you want the fastest and fully absorbing protein go with Hydrolyzed Casein

um, wouldnt hydrolyzed WHEY absorb faster than hydrolyzed casein? since whey digests faster than casein...


also, since casein builds up in the gut..........which is why it absorbs slower...which is why most people take it before bed.......


in fact, what the heck is the point of hydrolyzed casein? lol. people LIKE the fact that it is slower releasing so why would they make, or you take a faster releasing more expensive form of a slow protein instead of taking a faster releasing and more bio available protein like whey? if in fact you were looking for speed of absorption....

you just dropped a paradox on me lol.

 

[soontobbeast]

I've seen a few here bashing the positive studies but no one has even put up a reference to support the negativity. Don't just say its a bad study and have absolutely nothing to back it up.

Since when does price equal effectiveness? The entire Supp industry is over priced IMO.

Soy has good bio-availability and a balance of all the aminos. If you got it at a killer price then good for you. Use it.

maybe because soy is NOT a complete protein? meaning it doesnt contain all 20 amino acids. and don't even start with the whole argument of '' well if you eat other foods with the missing aminos like beans and rice it will make it complete''

what is the point of buying an incomplete protein in order to buy other things to complete it, instead of buying a complete protein source like whey, casein,meat, or dairy ( yes, im aware that whey and casein COME from dairy, but i meant cheese, eggs, yogurt, etc) ?

 

[vpower]

um, wouldnt hydrolyzed WHEY absorb faster than hydrolyzed casein? since whey digests faster than casein...


also, since casein builds up in the gut..........which is why it absorbs slower...which is why most people take it before bed.......


in fact, what the heck is the point of hydrolyzed casein? lol. people LIKE the fact that it is slower releasing so why would they make, or you take a faster releasing more expensive form of a slow protein instead of taking a faster releasing and more bio available protein like whey? if in fact you were looking for speed of absorption....

you just dropped a paradox on me lol.

I would personally go with casein over whey..I have had better results with putting on muscle and losing fat with casein than I ever had with whey. It s really about the purest sources with the highest % hydrolized. Pepti-pro is a great brand that comes to mind. But I really dont have a frame of reference with Hydrolized whey. Do you?

 

[djbombsquad]

Is soy safe?

Some quotes from the article, writtenBy Sharon Howard, R.D.

"Soy products contain five known classes of anti-cancer agents, including phytoestrogens. Natural soyfood sources of phytoestrogens are recommended as part
of a therapeutic and prophylactic diet instead of isoflavone supplements, because
the foods contain all the potential anti-cancer agents ingested by apparently
protected populations of women with lower rates of breast cancer."

Dr. Koop and Sharon looked to the soy-eating Japanese and Chinese women to find truth: "Studies of Chinese and Japanese women indicate that they have one fifth the
rate of breast cancers of U.S. women and that they consume from 10 to 50
grams per day of soy protein in contrast to 1 to 3 grams per day consumed by
Americans. This translates to 20 to 80 milligrams of isoflavones consumed per
day by Asian women compared to U.S. women whose intake is less than 5
milligrams per day."
Now for the real science, thanks to Koop.com: "Isoflavones are very similar in structure
to estrogen and are able to bind estrogen receptors, though they exhibit only a weak
estrogenic effect: only one-hundredth to one-thousandth that of estradiol. Since high levels of estrogen have been linked to breast cancer and other hormone-related
cancers, isoflavones may work by binding estrogen receptors and blocking the harmful effects of the more potent form of estrogen, thus functioning as an overall antiestrogen (Claire Hasler, University of Illinois)."

 

[djbombsquad]

ALL PROTEINS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL THE KEY TO OSTEOPOROSIS

It's not how much calcium you eat. It's how much calcium you prevent from leaving your bones.

WHY DOES CALCIUM LEAVE BONES?

There are 28 amino acids in nature. The human body can manufacture 19 of them. The other nine are called "essential." We must get them from the foods
we eat. One of those "essential" aminos is methionine. One needs methionine for many human metabolic functions including digestion, detoxification of heavy
metals, and muscle metabolism. However, an excess of methionine can be toxic.

Methionine = C-5, H-11, NO, S

Methionine is a good source for sulfur. That's the problem. Eat foods containing too much methionine, and your blood will become acidic. The sulfur converts to sulfates and weak forms of sulfuric acid. In order to neutralize the acid, in its wisdom, the body leaches calcium from bones. "Dietary protein increases production of acid in the blood
which can be neutralized by calcium mobilized from theskeleton." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1995; 61,4}

Animal proteins contain more methionine than plant proteins. Let's compare cow's milk to soymilk:
Methionine in 100 grams of soymilk: .040 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of whole milk: .083 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of skim milk: .099 grams

Now, let's compare 100 gram portions of tofu to meat:
(All of the meat products are lean and without skin)

Silken soft tofu: .074 grams
Hamburger: .282 grams
Hard boiled egg: .392 grams
Roast ham: .535 grams
Baked codfish: .679 grams
Swiss cheese .784 grams
Roast chicken: .801 grams

In 1988, N.A. Breslau and colleagues identified the relationship between protein-rich diets and calcium metabolism, noting that protein caused calcium loss. His work was published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology (1988;66:140-6).

A 1994 study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (Remer T, Am J Clin Nutr 1994;59:1356-61) found that animal proteins cause calcium to be leached from the
bones and excreted in the urine.
MORE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE: "Osteoporosis is caused by a number of things, one
of the most important being too much dietary protein." {Science 1986;233, 4763}

"Even when eating 1,400 mg of calcium daily, one can lose up to 4% of his or her bone mass each year while consuming a high-protein diet." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1979;32,4}

"Increasing one's protein intake by 100% may cause calcium loss to double." {Journal of Nutrition, 1981; 111, 3}

"Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years, were associated with an increased risk of hip fractures... metabolism of dietary protein causes increased urinary
excretion of calcium." {American Journal of Epidemiology 1994;139}

Can it get worse? Absolutely.

The Framingham Heart Study is the largest and most exciting heart study in the history of mankind. Some of the highlights of this exhaustive 50 year study:

In 1960, Cigarette smoking was found to increase the risk of heart disease.

In 1970, high blood pressure was found to increase the risk of stroke.

During the 1980's, high levels of HDL cholesterol were found to reduce risk of death from heart disease.

In the 1990's, homocysteines were identified as key factors in heart attack deaths.

Homocysteines are normal breakdown products of METHIONINE and are believed to exert a number of toxic effects in the body. I recently spoke with the senior investigator of the Framingham heart study, William Castelli, M.D. (E-mail: [email protected])
Dr. Castelli has suggested that an elevated homocysteine level is a risk factor for heart disease. The first evidence of this was published in the American Journal of
Cardiology (Glueck, 1995;75:132–6).

Two recent publications resulting from Framingham data indicate a positive correlation between cardiovascular disease mortality and blood serum levels of homocysteine.

Bostom AG, et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine levels and all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in elderly Framingham men and women. Arch Intern Med
1999; 159:1077-1080.

Bostom A.G., et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine levels and stroke incidence in elderly persons: the Framingham Study. Ann Intern Med 131[5], 352-355, 1999.

 

[djbombsquad]

Let’s compare 100-gram portions (3.5 ounces) of soymilk vs.
cow’s milk:

Cow’s milk has 61 calories. Soymilk has 33 calories. Cow’s milk contains 3.34 grams of fat. Soymilk contains 1.91 grams of fat.

Cow’s milk has 14 milligrams of cholesterol and no dietary fiber. Soymilk contains 1.3 grams of fiber and has zero cholesterol.

Cow’s milk contains a full range of amino acids. Soymilk also contains a full range of amino acids.

Both contain plenty of protein. Cow’s milk actually has one- half gram more protein than the 100-gram portion of soymilk.

Soymilk contains greater amounts of certain amino acids including arginine, alanine, aspartic acid,glycine and leucine.

Arginine slows the growth of cancers by strengthening the immune system. Alanine aids in the metabolism of sugars. Aspartic acid increases stamina and plays a vital role in metabolism, acting as an anti-oxidant. Glycine is necessary for brain and nervous system functioning and muscle/energy metabolism.
Leucine helps preserve lean muscle tissue,it supplies the body with energy when under stress (i.e. when engaging in athletic activity), it preserves muscle glycogen (glucose stored in muscle tissue used to power muscular contraction), it maintains nitrogen balance, and it enhances thinking abilities that can decline as physical activity becomes more intense.3 It also works to heal bone, skin and muscle tissue. Additionally, L-Leucine may increase somatropin (HGH - Human Growth Hormone) secretion - a hormone that may lead to healthier joints, a slowing (and possible reversal) of the ageing process, decreases in body fat, and increases in strength and muscle mass.

The effects of L-Leucine in the diet are profound. As the strongest of the BCAA's, L-Leucine is what's known as a "limiting nutrient" - meaning that you must have enough L-Leucine in proportion to other amino acids in order for your body to make use of what you eat.