Resveratrol not ready for prime time yet

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    Resveratrol not ready for prime time yet


    ScienceDaily (Dec. 19, 1997) CHICAGO --- Researchers at Northwestern University Medical School have found that a chemical in red wine believed to help reduce risk for heart disease is a form of estrogen. The substance, resveratrol, is highly concentrated in the skin of grapes and is abundant in red wine.


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    Moderate consumption of red wine has been widely reported to reduce risk for cardiovascular disease. Some researchers have attributed this cardioprotective quality to the significant amounts of resveratrol naturally present in grape skin.

    Resveratrol protects grapes and some other plants against fungal infections. It has been shown previously to have a number of potentially beneficial properties, including antioxidant, anticoagulant, anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer effects.

    Resveratrol has a molecular structure similar to that of diethylstilbestrol, a synthetic estrogen. This prompted Barry D. Gehm, J. Larry Jameson, M.D., and colleagues at Northwestern to investigate whether resveratrol might have pharmacologic properties similar to those of estradiol, the major natural human estrogen.

    As reported in the Dec. 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the group's laboratory studies showed that resveratrol is estrogenic. (Specifically, it is a phytoestrogen, from the Greek word for "plant.") At concentrations similar to those required for its other biological effects, resveratrol activated expression of both artificially introduced "reporter" genes and naturally occurring estrogen-regulated genes in cultured human cells.

    The researchers also found that resveratrol could replace estradiol in supporting the proliferation of certain breast cancer cells that require estrogen for growth.

    "Estrogen" is not a specific compound but a category of substances defined by their biological effect. Originally named for their ability to induce estrus ("going into heat") in animals, estrogens act on cells by binding to a protein called estrogen receptor, which then causes certain genes to be expressed, or "turned on." In addition to the body's sex hormones, a number of other natural and artificial estrogens are known.

    In studying gene expression, many laboratories use artificial reporter genes. The reporter gene used in these studies is the gene for the enzyme luciferase, which makes fireflies light up. It was connected to a piece of DNA that the estrogen receptor "recognizes." When this reporter gene was put into cells, luciferase production increased in those treated with estrogen. Then, when mixed with certain chemicals, the enzyme was measured easily by the light it gave off.

    In some cells, resveratrol caused more expression of the reporter gene than estradiol. This was surprising, Gehm said, since estradiol has always been thought to produce maximal activation of the estrogen receptor. The group found that the most effective dose of resveratrol produced two to four times more light as the most effective dose of estradiol. However, estradiol is effective at much lower doses.

    "The estrogenic properties of resveratrol may play a role in the beneficial cardiovascular effects of red wine and the so-called 'French paradox,'" Gehm said.

    Estrogen is known to provide some protection against heart disease, and red wine also appears to. Their specific effects are similar, most notably, increasing high-density lipoprotein (HDL), the "good cholesterol." This effect of red wine may be mediated by resveratrol.

    But Gehm cautioned that it is not yet known if the body absorbs enough resveratrol from wine to make this plausible. The same can be said of resveratrol's other effects, described earlier.

    Some researchers have previously suggested that it would be beneficial to supplement people's diets with resveratrol because of its anticarcinogenic and anti-arteriosclerotic properties.

    "The discovery that resveratrol is estrogenic means that such supplementation might have undesirable side effects," Gehm said.

    Nevertheless, the observation that reseveratrol produces greater expression of some estrogen-regulated genes than estradiol may ultimately lead to the development of new, more selective estrogenic drugs. Selective estrogens currently available are used in the treatment of breast cancer (tamoxifen) and postmenopausal osteoporosis (raloxifene).

    Barry D. Gehm is a research assistant professor of medicine; J. Larry Jameson, M.D., is the C. F. Kettering Professor of Medicine and chief of endocrinology at Northwestern University Medical School. Also collaborating on this study were Joanne M. McAndrews and Pei-Yu Chien

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    That was 12 years ago.
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    Many people have been having great results with Resveratrol products.
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    I think the point still stands that there more we don't know about rez. The unknowns outnumber the knowns...like just about everything else on the supplement market.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    That was 12 years ago.
    Maybe so but the information is still relevent especially with the advent of more and more resveratrol products on the market.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    Many people have been having great results with Resveratrol products.
    Like what? It seems most of the benefits are supposed to be long term such as anti-cancer, reduce risk of cardiovascular disease etc. Those don't seem to be things you can measure or notice in any short period of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatingisfun View Post
    Like what? It seems most of the benefits are supposed to be long term such as anti-cancer, reduce risk of cardiovascular disease etc. Those don't seem to be things you can measure or notice in any short period of time.
    I generally feel better and sleep better while taking it.
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    Here's a decent one:

    Resveratrol, a naturally occurring diphenolic compound, affects lipogenesis, lipolysis and the antilipolytic action of insulin in isolated rat adipocytes.

    The Journal Of Steroid Biochemistry And Molecular Biology [J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol] 2009 Jan; Vol. 113 (1-2), pp. 17-24. Date of Electronic Publication: 2008 Nov 12.

    Resveratrol is a naturally occurring diphenolic compound exerting numerous beneficial effects in the organism. The present study demonstrated its short-term, direct influence on lipogenesis, lipolysis and the antilipolytic action of insulin in freshly isolated rat adipocytes. In fat cells incubated for 90 min with 125 and 250 microM resveratrol (but not with 62.5 microM resveratrol), basal and insulin-induced lipogenesis from glucose was significantly reduced. The antilipogenic effect was accompanied by a significant diminution of CO(2) release and enhanced production of lactate. The inhibition of glucose conversion to lipids found in the presence of resveratrol was not attenuated by activator of protein kinase C. However, acetate conversion to lipids appeared to be insensitive to resveratrol. In adipocytes incubated for 90 min with epinephrine, 10 and 100 microM resveratrol significantly enhanced lipolysis, especially at lower concentrations of the hormone. However, the lipolytic response to dibutyryl-cAMP, a direct activator of protein kinase A, was unchanged. Further studies demonstrated that, in cells stimulated with epinephrine, 1, 10 and 100 microM resveratrol significantly enhanced glycerol release despite the presence of insulin or H-89, an inhibitor of protein kinase A. The influence of resveratrol on epinephrine-induced lipolysis and on the antilipolytic action of insulin was not abated by the blocking of estrogen receptor and was accompanied by a significant (with the exception of 1 microM resveratrol in experiment with insulin) increase in cAMP in adipocytes. It was also revealed that resveratrol did not change the proportion between glycerol and fatty acids released from adipocytes exposed to epinephrine. Results of the present study revealed that resveratrol reduced glucose conversion to lipids in adipocytes, probably due to disturbed mitochondrial metabolism of the sugar. Moreover, resveratrol increased epinephrine-induced lipolysis. This effect was found also in the presence of insulin and resulted from the synergistic action of resveratrol and epinephrine. The obtained results provided evidence that resveratrol affects lipogenesis and lipolysis in adipocytes contributing to reduced lipid accumulation in these cells.
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    So does anyone taking this product feel that they began reaching their fitness goals a little more quickly when they started?
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    Res is being marketed for immediete benefits, and to say the least, that is about as false advertising as it gets. I see lots of wild claims made, but nothing backing them up.

    I want to see some real third party blood tests showing that Res lowers E and raises T.

    Anecdotally... I didn't get cancer today.

    And where did this better sleep idea come from? Andecdotally people are suggesting shallower sleep and disturbances.

    Honestly I think the industry wanted a holy grail and slapped it on Res since Red Wine has great benefits.

    /opinion
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Res is being marketed for immediete benefits, and to say the least, that is about as false advertising as it gets. I see lots of wild claims made, but nothing backing them up.

    I want to see some real third party blood tests showing that Res lowers E and raises T.

    Anecdotally... I didn't get cancer today.

    And where did this better sleep idea come from? Andecdotally people are suggesting shallower sleep and disturbances.

    Honestly I think the industry wanted a holy grail and slapped it on Res since Red Wine has great benefits.

    /opinion
    For me it improves my sleep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    For me it improves my sleep.
    I am not denying that... My intention was that probably about 90% of the reports around here from Res is pretty much placebo. Wasn't actually directed at you personally, just in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I am not denying that... My intention was that probably about 90% of the reports around here from Res is pretty much placebo. Wasn't actually directed at you personally, just in general.
    Did not take it personal. I think for long term general health it is very good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    Did not take it personal. I think for long term general health it is very good.
    No doubt... thats why I am saying people have not expierienced the effect of Res... it is a long term supplement for sure, the SIRT1 modulation in respect with anti aging. That is where Res I believe shines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Here's a decent one:

    Resveratrol, a naturally occurring diphenolic compound, affects lipogenesis, lipolysis and the antilipolytic action of insulin in isolated rat adipocytes.

    The Journal Of Steroid Biochemistry And Molecular Biology [J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol] 2009 Jan; Vol. 113 (1-2), pp. 17-24. Date of Electronic Publication: 2008 Nov 12.

    Resveratrol is a naturally occurring diphenolic compound exerting numerous beneficial effects in the organism. The present study demonstrated its short-term, direct influence on lipogenesis, lipolysis and the antilipolytic action of insulin in freshly isolated rat adipocytes. In fat cells incubated for 90 min with 125 and 250 microM resveratrol (but not with 62.5 microM resveratrol), basal and insulin-induced lipogenesis from glucose was significantly reduced. The antilipogenic effect was accompanied by a significant diminution of CO(2) release and enhanced production of lactate. The inhibition of glucose conversion to lipids found in the presence of resveratrol was not attenuated by activator of protein kinase C. However, acetate conversion to lipids appeared to be insensitive to resveratrol. In adipocytes incubated for 90 min with epinephrine, 10 and 100 microM resveratrol significantly enhanced lipolysis, especially at lower concentrations of the hormone. However, the lipolytic response to dibutyryl-cAMP, a direct activator of protein kinase A, was unchanged. Further studies demonstrated that, in cells stimulated with epinephrine, 1, 10 and 100 microM resveratrol significantly enhanced glycerol release despite the presence of insulin or H-89, an inhibitor of protein kinase A. The influence of resveratrol on epinephrine-induced lipolysis and on the antilipolytic action of insulin was not abated by the blocking of estrogen receptor and was accompanied by a significant (with the exception of 1 microM resveratrol in experiment with insulin) increase in cAMP in adipocytes. It was also revealed that resveratrol did not change the proportion between glycerol and fatty acids released from adipocytes exposed to epinephrine. Results of the present study revealed that resveratrol reduced glucose conversion to lipids in adipocytes, probably due to disturbed mitochondrial metabolism of the sugar. Moreover, resveratrol increased epinephrine-induced lipolysis. This effect was found also in the presence of insulin and resulted from the synergistic action of resveratrol and epinephrine. The obtained results provided evidence that resveratrol affects lipogenesis and lipolysis in adipocytes contributing to reduced lipid accumulation in these cells.
    Yea, I know I've done a lot of research on this product. Most studies have only been done on animals and in very high doses. I still can't escape the fact that it's estrogenic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    No doubt... thats why I am saying people have not expierienced the effect of Res... it is a long term supplement for sure, the SIRT1 modulation in respect with anti aging. That is where Res I believe shines.
    Agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Anecdotally... I didn't get cancer today.
    How can you be sure?

    Many people report immediate health benefits but not on the Richter scale, (on the anti-aging scale). Almost everyone feels better after SA.

    Focusing on PP a bit, who are really one of the two big sellers of resveratrol products for sports. My main question is whether its a natural SERM, Gingko in some senses has SERM like behaviour but not quite what we think of as a SERM.

    Certainly EndoAmp Max does exactly what it says on the can, I dunno how because it suggests there is a feedback loop between norephinephrine and dopamine, which is not possible (?), but dunno how else test can be boosted by crushing cortisol. Its as if they are linked. Anyway EndoAmp works, the more cortisol the stronger you feel it kick in and it feels like a dopamine boost. I could entirely wrong, but the data (even though sample size low) looks good, experience is good. PAS is a strong product.
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    Well, not to bash rezveratrol yet(I am ordering it in my next supplement order), but th other active ingredient in Sustain Alpha is a test booster, so this raises the question of how much the resV is actually responsible for.
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    Well as far as trans-resv goes, I have been taking stoked for 2 weeks now, and I feel a little dried out and I have sore joints, I have never had sore joints, so I am assuming my e levels are lower...it is not a placebo effect either, when I work out all my joints are sore, knees too. I warm up, proper diet, drink tons of water, all the good stuff. So I think i am getting a side effect from the trans-resv. Also have some acbe clearing up too if that means anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    How can you be sure?

    Many people report immediate health benefits but not on the Richter scale, (on the anti-aging scale). Almost everyone feels better after SA.

    Focusing on PP a bit, who are really one of the two big sellers of resveratrol products for sports. My main question is whether its a natural SERM, Gingko in some senses has SERM like behaviour but not quite what we think of as a SERM.

    Certainly EndoAmp Max does exactly what it says on the can, I dunno how because it suggests there is a feedback loop between norephinephrine and dopamine, which is not possible (?), but dunno how else test can be boosted by crushing cortisol. Its as if they are linked. Anyway EndoAmp works, the more cortisol the stronger you feel it kick in and it feels like a dopamine boost. I could entirely wrong, but the data (even though sample size low) looks good, experience is good. PAS is a strong product.
    My cancer comment was meant of sarcasm.

    7,8 benzo is a fantastic compound and contributes 99.9% of the effects of sustain.

    As for people having this immediate benfits of Res, how is this even acknowledged since the science does not support it? Critical thinking bring you to the point of a study. If you feel 100 people sugar pills and tell them they are sugar pills, they wont gain muscle. But tell those same 100 people that you are feeding them the strongest anabolic compound in the world, and only give them sugar pills again, and amazingly they gain 12 pounds in 3 weeks. The power of the mind is an amazing thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayts22 View Post
    Well as far as trans-resv goes, I have been taking stoked for 2 weeks now, and I feel a little dried out and I have sore joints, I have never had sore joints, so I am assuming my e levels are lower...it is not a placebo effect either, when I work out all my joints are sore, knees too. I warm up, proper diet, drink tons of water, all the good stuff. So I think i am getting a side effect from the trans-resv. Also have some acbe clearing up too if that means anything
    Stoked can dry you out some as it does reduce estro some. I would increase water and fish oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    My cancer comment was meant of sarcasm.
    Lets hope...
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    7,8 benzo is a fantastic compound and contributes 99.9% of the effects of sustain.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    As for people having this immediate benfits of Res, how is this even acknowledged since the science does not support it?
    There are too many to count and the general opinion is there is a bit of effect but nothing dramatic (Imminist). Placebo effects sure, but they tend to say great! fantastic! not "bit of effect - I'm hanging in for the long term" which is what Imminist tends to say. Those guys give it to their dog (I'm serious) to see how it'll behave.

    Fo-Ti (Chinese knotweed) has been the ancient part of Chinese medicine for hundreds of years at least. Its used for longevity. Resv. (Japanese knotweed extract) causes funky anti-aging responses in flies, worms that sort of thing. Anti-aging it looks good.

    SERM / anti-estrogen effects are thought to occur. Yeah it needs real test boost effects to be sure. Alot of guys here are using resveratrol PCT - too many for it to be ineffective. IMO PP tend to get their science right. Whether their new product will out perform the most expensive preps of resveratrol out there is a big claim. Good if its true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Lets hope...

    Thanks.


    There are too many to count and the general opinion is there is a bit of effect but nothing dramatic (Imminist). Placebo effects sure, but they tend to say great! fantastic! not "bit of effect - I'm hanging in for the long term" which is what Imminist tends to say. Those guys give it to their dog (I'm serious) to see how it'll behave.

    Fo-Ti (Chinese knotweed) has been the ancient part of Chinese medicine for hundreds of years at least. Its used for longevity. Resv. (Japanese knotweed extract) causes funky anti-aging responses in flies, worms that sort of thing. Anti-aging it looks good.

    SERM / anti-estrogen effects are thought to occur. Yeah it needs real test boost effects to be sure. Alot of guys here are using resveratrol PCT - too many for it to be ineffective. IMO PP tend to get their science right. Whether their new product will out perform the most expensive preps of resveratrol out there is a big claim. Good if its true.
    I agree with you. I am not knocking Res for its long term anti aging/free radical quenching/etc Benefits. I do think Res slows aging down tremendously. It is just the astounding benefits people are reporting because they really think this is the wonder drug.... "I lost 50lbs in 30 days" "I climbed mount everest with a ice pick and a wonder bra" "My d*ck lifted a 42pound barbell while I was eating a cheeseburger".... some of the stuff is just ridiculous and saying it was the res.
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    What, you dont lift with your **** whilst eating cheeseburgers? What a homo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    What, you dont lift with your **** whilst eating cheeseburgers? What a homo.
    :nohomo:
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Lets hope...

    Thanks.


    There are too many to count and the general opinion is there is a bit of effect but nothing dramatic (Imminist). Placebo effects sure, but they tend to say great! fantastic! not "bit of effect - I'm hanging in for the long term" which is what Imminist tends to say. Those guys give it to their dog (I'm serious) to see how it'll behave.

    Fo-Ti (Chinese knotweed) has been the ancient part of Chinese medicine for hundreds of years at least. Its used for longevity. Resv. (Japanese knotweed extract) causes funky anti-aging responses in flies, worms that sort of thing. Anti-aging it looks good.

    SERM / anti-estrogen effects are thought to occur. Yeah it needs real test boost effects to be sure. Alot of guys here are using resveratrol PCT - too many for it to be ineffective. IMO PP tend to get their science right. Whether their new product will out perform the most expensive preps of resveratrol out there is a big claim. Good if its true.
    I agree with the statement that many people are using res products in pct and if it were no good we would know it. I do believe that more research needs to be done and the general health part of it may be better than the pct part of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayts22 View Post
    Well as far as trans-resv goes, I have been taking stoked for 2 weeks now, and I feel a little dried out and I have sore joints, I have never had sore joints, so I am assuming my e levels are lower...it is not a placebo effect either, when I work out all my joints are sore, knees too. I warm up, proper diet, drink tons of water, all the good stuff. So I think i am getting a side effect from the trans-resv. Also have some acbe clearing up too if that means anything
    Well I wonder why people report dryness on stoked but not SA. Has anyone tried taking large doses of quercitan? It's supposed to increase histamine, which would increase inflamation, and could cause some pain. Just a thought.
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    I get enhanced libido from resveratrol right away
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    I get enhanced libido from resveratrol right away
    How much do you take?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    How much do you take?
    whatever the bottle says
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    Some good discussion here, and there needs to be. Resveratrol affects people in different ways. I think the most positive and dramatic effects are observed in older people and those coming off cycle. New reports say that it is not a direct activator of SIRT1. It is being thought of as a physiologic catalyst that may indirectly help in activation, but more studies need to be done. I am of the opinion that the results from SA are not directly attributed to the flavone, but to the Resveratrol. I took the leading Resveratrol product solo, and its effects were greater than or equal to SA. There is a wide disparity in quality of product and dosage, so its best to use the best and nothing less. JMO
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    Are you saying that you consider SA to be on par with microized resveratrol Tween80 Knowbull?

    If so thats very interesting indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    I get enhanced libido from resveratrol right away
    When I take Stoked it cause my libido to go way up. It also make me very hungry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    When I take Stoked it cause my libido to go way up. It also make me very hungry.
    i get this effect also. one other thing, res is the only supp other than td formestane that has an effect on appearance of my chest. i see noticeable improvement in chest appearance after 2-3 weeks on a res supplement. granted i am older than most of you and my results may differ, but my results are real. at 51 i respond very well to res, and will continue using. as for science, it hasn't been that long since the scientific community declared that creatine had no effect on muscle size or strength. also the pocket pdr you can get at pharmacies say that androgens have no positive effect on athletic performance- so much for science!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i get this effect also. one other thing, res is the only supp other than td formestane that has an effect on appearance of my chest. i see noticeable improvement in chest appearance after 2-3 weeks on a res supplement. granted i am older than most of you and my results may differ, but my results are real. at 51 i respond very well to res, and will continue using. as for science, it hasn't been that long since the scientific community declared that creatine had no effect on muscle size or strength. also the pocket pdr you can get at pharmacies say that androgens have no positive effect on athletic performance- so much for science!!!
    Not to far behind you. 48 in December.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    Not to far behind you. 48 in December.
    Yah were a bunch of old fuggers!! Rage!! Rage!! against the dying of the light!!

    Yah Stoked can dry me out as well. You know I pulse Formestane so I just have to watch my dosing I guess. Maybe increase fish oil intake.. actually I have so maybe I'll be ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    it hasn't been that long since the scientific community declared that creatine had no effect on muscle size or strength. also the pocket pdr you can get at pharmacies say that androgens have no positive effect on athletic performance- so much for science!!!
    Can you reference these for me T?
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    I get a little dried out from T-Rez and it seems to keep me a tad leaner...though that might just be from lower E. It and SA both give me an almost immediate boost of energy. Whether that's due to an increase in epi,nor epi or dopamine I can't know, but the effect is pronounced and it makes me feel better and more energetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Can you reference these for me T?
    the 'pill book' new and revised 11th edition. also one other thing of interest, the insert that came with my test cyp reads 'this drug has not been shown to be safe and effective for the enhancement of athletic performance'- now we are supposed to trust science and medical community after they write some crap like that? if testosterone is not effective at enhancing athletic performance then why the hell do they have testing? btw-for years we have been told that floride is good for teeth, now i have been hearing that it is actually harmful-and they have known this for years-science my asss. science is only as good as the bastards who make it out to be whatever is in their best interest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I get a little dried out from T-Rez and it seems to keep me a tad leaner...though that might just be from lower E. It and SA both give me an almost immediate boost of energy. Whether that's due to an increase in epi,nor epi or dopamine I can't know, but the effect is pronounced and it makes me feel better and more energetic.
    So do you take staight t-rez powder? If so, how do you dose?
  

  
 

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