para(pre,peri/intra & post)workout protocols discussion

  1. para(pre,peri/intra & post)workout protocols discussion


    FRAT Warning: I want to discuss para-workout protocols. (para being the whole pre, intra/peri & post workout supplement protocol) Below is Christian ThibaudeauĎs latest protocol from t-nation. Im as skeptical as anyone regarding the fine line between marketing & research & we all know how to make cheap surge & replace grow with our own preferred protein etc.

    PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
    Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
    W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
    W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
    W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
    During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
    During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
    W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
    W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

    PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
    Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
    W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
    W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
    During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
    During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
    W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
    W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

    Note they donít make an NO supp so they wont recommend one. They also recommend protein pulsing through the day (best article ive found so far on it: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/prote..._frequency.pdf - (not the exact article I was looking for but by same author)

    This is a good article on nutrient timing: Nutrient Timing - When Science and Marketing Collide | Wannabebig

    And Alan Aragons take on t-nats claims: Supplement Marketing on Steroids by Alan Aragon | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

    My Q is, have you experimented with obtaining an insulin spike DURING the workout, as opposed to straight afterwards, as many of us have been doing for as long as we can remember? Have you tried it? What were your thoughts, results & recommendations?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by sjfou View Post
    ???
    Well said.

    No offense, but unless you're an elite athlete (and maybe even then), the whole pre/intra/post deal is bullcrap. If you/we/anyone put that amount of effort into lifting, recovering, and eating, we'd all be better off.

    Quit nitpicking, lift heavy, and eat large.
    •   
       


  3. You dont consume post-workout shakes poison? no supps at all?

  4. No, of course I do. I'm not saying none of it is important. If I don't eat pre-workout, I feel like ass. Too close, I'll feel like ass. And clearly post-workout is prime, very important for recovery and growth.

    But the whole 'take this now, this then, the next thing not 30 minutes after or one hour befoer the other two' blahblah. It's all BS. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the amount of supps a guy takes and how regimented he is with them, and his size: big guys barely take anything, but eat like horses and lift like gorillas, and smaller guys are, well, smaller, lift and eat like ass, and try to make it up with supplements.

    The biggest guys I know eat, and lift. I'll ask what they're taking, and they'll say something like 'creatine, when I remember'. Of course, when you get to the pro level all bets are off.

    It's like the 'what to stack with Stoked and Testopro' thread I just saw. Are you freakin kidding? How many different test boosters you gonna take? Are you also supplementing NoXplode, SuperDump, and RagNOrok at the same time?

  5. I know what your saying & i agree. Theres so much BS out there in supp world. with my OP, if you take away the product names & replace with the effective ingredients, youre only looking at amino acids, protein & carbs. My thoughts arent on using surge, finibars & whatever else has fancy sticker & catchy name on it, im only interested in people progress with taking a pre-workout drink, a peri drink & a post drink. You could divide what you'd normally consume as a PWO shake by 3.

    When i spar, i cant eat within 2 hours of training, but i lift about half hour after waking, so i consume a carb/protein shake as a pre-workout shake & breakfast.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    No, of course I do. I'm not saying none of it is important. If I don't eat pre-workout, I feel like ass. Too close, I'll feel like ass. And clearly post-workout is prime, very important for recovery and growth.

    But the whole 'take this now, this then, the next thing not 30 minutes after or one hour befoer the other two' blahblah. It's all BS. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the amount of supps a guy takes and how regimented he is with them, and his size: big guys barely take anything, but eat like horses and lift like gorillas, and smaller guys are, well, smaller, lift and eat like ass, and try to make it up with supplements.

    The biggest guys I know eat, and lift. I'll ask what they're taking, and they'll say something like 'creatine, when I remember'. Of course, when you get to the pro level all bets are off.

    It's like the 'what to stack with Stoked and Testopro' thread I just saw. Are you freakin kidding? How many different test boosters you gonna take? Are you also supplementing NoXplode, SuperDump, and RagNOrok at the same time?
    Good perspective as I am becoming much more relaxed about that stuff. Since I am realizing that at my level, my sanity and mental health is much more important that freaking out cause I missed a certain macro or supplement.

    When it comes down to it, it is all about money. Supplement companies want us to think that our hard earned muscle depends on drinking supplements all day, pre, during, and after workouts.

  7. Get the basics dialed in first and then you can tell what benefits the supplements actually provide. Like Poison said...if you put all that attention into the food,sleep, and workout you would be in amuch better place!!
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons

  8. I've found that the more supplements I use makes it more likely that I'll miss a dose or just stop caring completely. For the most part (unless getting ready for a fight), I have very basic supplementation (BCAA, WMS, whey, fish oil).

    I like to follow the principle I picked up from the SciVation guys a few years back: have a nice, whole-food meal 90-120 minutes before training and then some BCAAs while training. The stomach shouldn't be digesting much while training.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  9. ^^^^
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons

  10. This is one of the more supercilious and superfluous pieces of crap I have seen in quite some time. Good lord.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've found that the more supplements I use makes it more likely that I'll miss a dose or just stop caring completely. For the most part (unless getting ready for a fight), I have very basic supplementation (BCAA, WMS, whey, fish oil).

    I like to follow the principle I picked up from the SciVation guys a few years back: have a nice, whole-food meal 90-120 minutes before training and then some BCAAs while training. The stomach shouldn't be digesting much while training.
    seriously, just keep it simple.

    Outside of my log, all I use are omegas,joint support, whey, bcaas

  12. All ive ever used is creatine mono, BCAAs, Whey, carbs & Fish oil. That being said, im going to trial a bastardised version of the above when i can train again. Something like:

    0530 Wake: Dex, CM & WPI
    0630 Train: Half dose WMS & BCCA just before, finish during
    0715 Finish: Dex, CM & WPI
    0800 Meal 1: Oats & fruit

    Im not really going to suffer paralysis from analysis, especially considering i cant even lift at the sec. i myself have had clients on 5-6 different supps & wanting advice on growing, but they barely get in 2000cals a day... i always tell them supps are only worth 3-5% max, in a client whose already got their diet, traniing AND sleep dialled. Then we'll add supps.
  

  
 

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