Do you really have to take choline with piracetam.

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    Do you really have to take choline with piracetam.


    Hello:

    I've just bought some piracetam, and reading around on the internet, it seems that piracetam is often advised to be taken with choline citrate or 'AGC'.

    a) Is this really necessary? I don't want to keep buying these gross tasting products that I have to fit into my daily regimen.
    b) Do I have to use choline citrate or AGC, or can I just eat an egg? What about lecithin (although I would rather just eat an egg)?
    c) Can any choline source be adequately converted into the type useful in conjunction with piracetam?

    Thanks.

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    Smile Yes


    To get the most of Piracetam you'll need some form of choline. It increases its effectiveness and you won't get any bad headaches (which happens if you don't take choline)

    I was using lecithin and eating eggs but recently switched to Alpha GPC and noticed a huge difference!! My mood instantly improved and I don't get mentally tired like I used to.

    If you're on a budget - get triple strenght lecithin from NOW and if you can afford it - buy some alpha GPC

    wish Nutraplanet started carrying alpha GPC in bulk....

    Good luck!
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    Thanks.
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    There are other sources of choline too, one being DMAE. AGPC is kinda pricey
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    Choline Citrate by Primaforce 500 grams, ONLY $19.99!!!

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/p...500-grams.html
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    Choline citrate or bitartrate are plenty fine for this use.
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    So what are the benefits of the choline piracetam stack?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmw8591 View Post
    So what are the benefits of the choline piracetam stack?
    In my experience, rapidity of thought. Enhanced creativity, mixed with an enhanced analytical side ( a bolstering of both, rather than enhancement of one hemisphere at the expense of the other), improved memory formation and recall, and - depening on how you interepret the above - increased motivation to work and create.
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    Piracetam & Choline Citrate Stack (1 + 1 Units) ONLY $45.99!!!




    Primaforce Piracetam 500 grams

    * SUPPORT MEMORY AND CONCENTRATION
    * SUPPORT OVERALL WELL BEING
    * SUPPORT REDUCED STRESS AND FATIGUE

    (2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide) is a natural derivative of GABA (Gamma Amino Butyric Acid) and is lab tested for potency and purity. Piracetam supports memory and concentration, overall well-being, cardiovascular health, and helps reduce stress and fatigue.

    Primaforce Choline Citrate 500 grams


    * Support Focus and Concentration
    * Support Healthy Mood

    Primafoce Choline Citrate is lab tested for potency and purity.
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    i just use lecithin, works for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by login211 View Post
    i just use lecithin, works for me
    Just received my bulk piracetam from NP. I have lecithin caps 1200 mgs. Will this work? If yes, how many mgs / day of lecithin do I take?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Just received my bulk piracetam from NP. I have lecithin caps 1200 mgs. Will this work? If yes, how many mgs / day of lecithin do I take?
    You should take 4-6 per day per 2-3 grams of Piracetam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    You should take 4-6 per day per 2-3 grams of Piracetam.
    Thanks dsade....I assume you mean 4-6 caps. How does regular lecithin compare with alpha-GPC. Some say they noticed a big difference over reular lecithin or choline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Thanks dsade....I assume you mean 4-6 caps. How does regular lecithin compare with alpha-GPC. Some say they noticed a big difference over reular lecithin or choline.
    Alpha-GPC is amazing...very potent with effects beyond simply a source of choline. It has an energizing effect, as well as increasing focus.

    I ended up including it in my intraworkout formula, and was VERY pleased with this workout enhancement/Recovery aspect.
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    I agree that Choline + Piracetam is necessary, however when I dose them together I get nauseus- so I take my Piracetam in the morning, and Alpha-GPC later in the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Alpha-GPC is amazing...very potent with effects beyond simply a source of choline. It has an energizing effect, as well as increasing focus.

    I ended up including it in my intraworkout formula, and was VERY pleased with this workout enhancement/Recovery aspect.
    That Alpha gpc is expensive stuff! 150 grams at $66! If I dosed at 6 grams per day that is 25 days per container.....is this right?
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    You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottie76 View Post
    You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.
    Correct.

    I reserve Alpha-GPC for my intraworkout drink.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottie76 View Post
    You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.
    Good to know! What's the differrence between Alpha GPC and Choline Citrate. On BN there are mixed reviews which is better.
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    Anyone know if Piracetam works best with food or empty stomach.
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    I would have to say skip the piracetam and go with aniracetam. I got some aniracetam to take with some of the Slim Xtreme that I got (because they took it out of the formula with the later runs) and found that on it's own it does have some very nice anxiolytic effects. Talkative, social, etc.. and great cognitive effects. Never took choline with it and never had any problems..

    I will say that it is night and day different between piracetam and aniracetam.

    Aniracetam is not too expensive either..

    My 2 cents

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    I would have to say skip the piracetam and go with aniracetam. I got some aniracetam to take with some of the Slim Xtreme that I got (because they took it out of the formula with the later runs) and found that on it's own it does have some very nice anxiolytic effects. Talkative, social, etc.. and great cognitive effects. Never took choline with it and never had any problems..

    I will say that it is night and day different between piracetam and aniracetam.

    Aniracetam is not too expensive either..

    My 2 cents

    K-
    I smell a new product were going to have to request! Is Aniracetam a natural chemical like piracetam, or something people made? Isn't it a altered version of a natural supplement, that way that creatine ethyl ester isn't quite natural?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    I smell a new product were going to have to request! Is Aniracetam a natural chemical like piracetam, or something people made? Isn't it a altered version of a natural supplement, that way that creatine ethyl ester isn't quite natural?
    It is part of the racetam family only much more potent than piracetam. Everyone used to make it including primaforce, 1-fast 400, etc.. but they all quit.. Probably the fact that it is a prescription drug in europe had something to do with it?? It is legal to sell and posses so I am not sure of the exact reason everyone quit selling it.. You can still find it pretty cheap though, NRx is a good brand of it. It would be nice if nutra would pick up the bulk powder..

    Here is the wikipedia link..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniracetam

    Excerpt
    Aniracetam (Draganon, Sarpul, Ampamet) is a nootropic compound of the racetam family purported to be considerably more potent than piracetam. It is lipid soluble and has possible cognition enhancing effects. It has been tested in animals extensively, Alzheimer's patients and temporarily-impaired healthy subjects. It has shown potential as an anxiolytic in three clinical animal models. Sold in the US as a dietary supplement while used in Europe as a prescription drug.



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    You just take more piracetam. No-one in the noots game is that fused with aniracetam. There is a small band of dedicated followers but not many.

    GPC choline - not at all clear. It might get knocked back to straight choline.

    CDP choline is the one to use, but its expensive. This does have scientific backing and in the noots game its a massive following. I forget its exact long term benefit but its associated with dopamine, something increasing dopamine receptor density. I can't remember exactly.

    Aniracetam - don't think more $$ is more effective. Weight for weight yes, but not efficacy for efficacy.

    Anyway last post for this year. See ya later...
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    You just take more piracetam. No-one in the noots game is that fused with aniracetam. There is a small band of dedicated followers but not many.

    GPC choline - not at all clear. It might get knocked back to straight choline.

    CDP choline is the one to use, but its expensive. This does have scientific backing and in the noots game its a massive following. I forget its exact long term benefit but its associated with dopamine, something increasing dopamine receptor density. I can't remember exactly.

    Aniracetam - don't think more $$ is more effective. Weight for weight yes, but not efficacy for efficacy.

    Anyway last post for this year. See ya later...
    I disagree. There is a reason that it is a prescription drug in europe. Also the anxiolytic properties of aniracetam have been shown in 3 scientific tests where those same properties have not been demonstrated for piracetam. There is a reason that AX included aniracetam instead of piracetam..
    There is no way to get all of the effects of aniracetam from piracetam.. Maybe the memory/cognition effects at a higher dose of piracetam but that is not the only reason that aniracetam is better.. It has some similar properties but is a different chemical..


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    All you have done is summarize the wiki.

    I found zip.

    Personal experience doesn't chime with the wiki. It ain't the word of God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    All you have done is summarize the wiki.

    I found zip.

    Personal experience doesn't chime with the wiki. It ain't the word of God.
    wow.. ok..

    Funny, they tested it against diazepam... and aniracetam was effective in more areas..

    Aniracetam also showed anti-anxiety effects in two other anxiety models (elevated plus-maze and conditioned fear stress tests), whereas diazepam as a positive control was anxiolytic only in the elevated plus-maze and social interaction tests

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...459c53910a42b3


    In a social interaction test in which all classes (serotonergic, cholinergic and dopaminergic) of compounds were effective, aniracetam (10-100 mg/kg) increased total social interaction scores (time and frequency), and the increase in the total social interaction time mainly reflected an increase in trunk sniffing and following.

    Conclusion
    These results indicate that aniracetam possesses a wide range of anxiolytic properties, which may be mediated by an interaction between cholinergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic systems. Thus, our findings suggest the potential usefulness of aniracetam against various types of anxiety-related disorders and social failure/impairments.


    ---------------------


    User experiences
    http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=64904
    and
    http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55576

    More on erowid, here is just some for example..

    Plus my personal experience and other user experience (references above).. Let's see... User experiece, backed by science.. Ok.. Nevermind.. I am sure you are right.


    And this from my original statement
    There is a reason that AX included aniracetam instead of piracetam..
    There is no way to get all of the effects of aniracetam from piracetam.. Maybe the memory/cognition effects at a higher dose of piracetam but that is not the only reason that aniracetam is better..

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    Add to this "in mice!!!"

    Yeah if I ever get mice as pets and they look nervous I'll give 'em aniracetam. It is very reassuring to know.

    If test results translated the FDA would ban Tribulus for test boosting.

    What I am certain of is that in noots some like it alot, but the majority go with piracetam and pay the (considerable) extra for citicoline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Add to this "in mice!!!"

    Yeah if I ever get mice as pets and they look nervous I'll give 'em aniracetam. It is very reassuring to know.

    If test results translated the FDA would ban Tribulus for test boosting.

    What I am certain of is that in noots some like it alot, but the majority go with piracetam and pay the (considerable) extra for citicoline.
    All Med tests start out in mice.. Heck the steroid A:A ratios that everyone quotes so much are done in the same fashion.. Maybe you should also argue that those results have no relation to the behavior in humans. As are a lot of the creatine studies.. Must I go pull all of the medical standards for testing for you also?? What about the physiological differences and similarities between mice and humans? Why is it we test on them again?? Why did the diazepam have the same anxiolytic effects on the mice as humans? but we cannot measure aniracetams anxiolytic properties in the same fashion...

    Amphetamine testing started there.. Now are we going to say that doesn't work as the literature indicated. I think that these scientist are smart enough to know how to do their job.
    Amphet..
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/h0g2625110606483/

    Heck this amphetamine study done on mice concluded the receptor that caused the locamotor and DA release properties for amphetamine.. to then investigate a therapy for psychostimulant addiction.. ALL FROM MICE!! Imagine that, they can even pick out the receptor that amphetamine is using and pick out the existence of a coupling between noradrenergic and dopaminergic neurons.. Maybe you should give them a call and inform them they do not know what they are talking about or how to do there testing.. Would probably help them in the future....

    http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/22/21/9150
    In conclusion, we show here that, in nucleus accumbens of mice lacking 1b-adrenergic receptors, basal DA release is lower than in WT littermates and D-amphetamine fails to increase extracellular DA levels. This is probably linked with D-amphetamine-induced blunted locomotor responses in 1bAR-KO mice and further confirms the existence of a powerful coupling between noradrenergic and dopaminergic neurons. In addition to potential consequences in the field of therapy of addiction to psychostimulants, this coupling may have some implications in mental diseases such as psychosis. Indeed, it is worth to recall that most antipsychotic compounds possess anti-1-adrenergic properties.





    What you are saying is that you can come to a better conclusion with the test results than the scientist did.. That is simply rediculous. Get a PHD and do some of these tests.. then come talk to me.. I have bolded the conclusion by CNS Supporting Laboratory, Nippon Roche Research Center and I think I will take there conclusion over yours.. As would anyone else with a brain.. I have also posted numerous user reports besides my own.

    These results indicate that aniracetam possesses a wide range of anxiolytic properties, which may be mediated by an interaction between cholinergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic systems. Thus, our findings suggest the potential usefulness of aniracetam against various types of anxiety-related disorders and social failure/impairments.


    Say what you want I have posted proof and reviews and you have nothing but what you are saying.. Would be nice if you had some science rather than opinion also (Like the mouse thing.. where is the science indicating that the anxiolytic properties of a compound differ between mice and humans?? Or yeah.. I fogot, you were just talking again.. The same report rebuffs that.. The diazepam had anxiolytic effects on mice and humans). Start posting some backing to anything you are saying. What supp companies do I do not know.. I only know what aniracetam does. Maybe the FDA does not like them putting it in there because AX, if I remember correctly, said that they removed it so that their product did not draw the attention of the FDA.. Don't know how the supp companies come up with their formulas, kind of surprises me that adrafinil has not popped up in any supps.. Maybe legalities, maybe not natural? Would have far greater stim poperties than alot of the stuff out there now..
    I do however know aniracetam, it's behavior, and how it acts and feels as a supplement..



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    Lab animals have a poor track record in supplements. Again the phytotestosterone all give testosterone boosts in lab animals but not humans.

    Secondly - human genetic variation. Piracetam is a very widely used noot. No one has actually demonstrated it works. It works for sleep apnea but results are so variable for cognitive enhancement in humans no one can understand it. Obviously there are theories. Basically there ain't a magic noot. A single mouse model against the widespread opinions of experianced nootropic users.

    Reality check.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    Get a PHD and do some of these tests..
    from Oxbridge (UK Ivy league) and you?

    I will delete this later - I don't give personal details out. This is the exception.
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    Matthias, I was just wondering, do you have any experience with any of the racetams? What's funny is that I've read an article somewhere concluded that Piracetam is actually far more superior than Aniracetam in all modes of effects. I believe it had a study attatched to it as well. I'll try and track down where I read the article. I also think that more studies need to be done on humans. To me, studies done on mice and rats have too many variables to support "X's" use in humans. I don't see why it would be too difficult to perform studies with controls on volunteering humans. I think universities and research organizations should try and go this route, this way we can be that much more accurate, or rather be 99.9% accurate since we'd be performing the studies on our human anatomy.

    I understand that a lot of people are not going to just jump in and have scientists start plugging away but I do believe there are enough willing people, some probably on this forum, that would volunteer for studies; depending on what kind of study obviously. Imagine if supplement companies tried to do this? A whole new window of knowledge would be opened and we would find out which supps are garbage and which are gold.

    As for this topic, I'm going to starting out my Piracetam/Choline Citrate combo as soon as my CC comes in. I've used a Piracetam/DMAE combo back in August but I didn't follow it through religiously because I wanted to get a better choline source, or at least something that will give better synergy with DMAE. However, I will say that when I started out using the Piracetam/DMAE combo, the anti-stress, anxiolytic effects were present; nothing too dramatic but pronounced for sure. I just felt content with whatever it was that I was doing and didn't have the need to worry or think too much of whatever it was that I was involved in, kinda neat.

    I only went with that combo for I'd say maybe a full 10 or 12 days and dosed only once in the morning of about 1/2 teaspoon of Piracetam and 500mg of DMAE and additional 500mg of DMAE in the afternoon. I'm looking forward to restarting Piracetam with Choline Citrate. I have a half a bottle of DMAE left that I'll also stack with. I'll give some kind of review mid-way through or when I'm done, as I hear the effects are prolonged the more you use it, sort of like adaptogens.

    BTW, what about oxiracetam? Does anyone have any experience with that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Lab animals have a poor track record in supplements. Again the phytotestosterone all give testosterone boosts in lab animals but not humans.

    Secondly - human genetic variation. Piracetam is a very widely used noot. No one has actually demonstrated it works. It works for sleep apnea but results are so variable for cognitive enhancement in humans no one can understand it. Obviously there are theories. Basically there ain't a magic noot. A single mouse model against the widespread opinions of experianced nootropic users.

    Reality check.



    from Oxbridge (UK Ivy league) and you?

    I will delete this later - I don't give personal details out. This is the exception.
    again. no references. none of my points were refuted or answered with any scientific evidence or even reviews from aniracetam users as I posted. This means nothing to me. I was only posting the anti-anxiety effect studies. Aniracetam has been widely studied in memory/cognition areas, that is how it got approval for a presc drug.. No point in further arguing though. I think we have both posted what we needed to.. I am sure we both have a life outside of this conversation.. This has taken as much of my attention I will give it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    Matthias, I was just wondering, do you have any experience with any of the racetams? What's funny is that I've read an article somewhere concluded that Piracetam is actually far more superior than Aniracetam in all modes of effects.

    BTW, what about oxiracetam? Does anyone have any experience with that?
    Yes - I use noots daily. I have not tried oxiracetam nor the weirder fringe of noots (and some very weird stuff goes on indeed). I just do mainstream stuff.

    Aniracetam doesn't work for me not because its not effective but because the amount needed to have any effect makes it too expensive. I would need 1g of aniracetam and it ain't worth it. I would prefer to take 1g of phosphatylserine (Pas), which is in fact cheaper.

    I have used heavy dose piracetam - about 10g per day - it has stimulant effect and combines very well with citicoline. Other noots guys require less than 1g. The concern of piracetam is heavy metal contamination, I don't know whether that is valid. I don't use it at present.

    I prefer ALCAR to piracetam/aniracetam and Lion's mane mushroom. I am also recent fan of schisandra berries - I love them. Would like to try "FocusDirt" from USPlabs.

    Finally I use theanine/Pas - not really as a noot but as a sleep supplement/ cortisol control.

    Imminist is the place to check out and a few noots people use aniracetam, the majority like me use piracetam.

    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    I don't see why it would be too difficult to perform studies with controls on volunteering humans. I think universities and research organizations should try and go this route, this way we can be that much more accurate, or rather be 99.9% accurate since we'd be performing the studies on our human anatomy.
    Its not a life or death issue so it is low in priority. Most research is about reducing mortality, stopping severe chronic disease etc... It dangerous waters to "make people smarter" because it usually descends in to eugenic type debates (someone always wants to stand out and be controversial). There is a current eugenics proponent in the US - I forget his name in fact I deliberately forgot it. Its shuddering to think many of the major scientists of the past were eugenics proponents, Fisher (of critical probability fame) was one. I guess he never saw where it would all end - with 6 million Jews getting murdered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    again. no references. none of my points were refuted or answered with any scientific evidence or even reviews from aniracetam users as I posted.

    K-
    I have followed the piracetam debate pretty closely and subscribe and post to Imminist. I ain't the world's expert on noots - by imminist standards - but I am pretty well informed.

    The assumption you are using "because it is prescribed it must be effective" is that improving cognitive impairment such as in Alzheimer's, stroke victims etc.. will translate into cognitive enhancement in healthy individuals. That is a shaky assumption. One theory for piracetam is that it works on variations of cognitive impairment.

    Yes studies have said piracetam works ...Dimond, SJ; Brouwers (1976). "Increase in the power of human memory in normal man through the use of drugs". Psychopharmacology 49 (3): 307–9 (http://www.springerlink.com/content/v6t6k526405vm570/)

    Subsequant studies on humans give very mixed results on healthy populations.

    Reading the wiki I was surprised to learn that piracetam is only a prescription drug in mainland Europe and illegal to buy in the UK but can be imported for personal use... piracetam?? Oh my goodness, this is the place where "legal highs" can be bought. Stupid?

    If I ever had a stroke I'd use piracetam non-stop and just about every other racetam. For now I prefer ALCAR.

    My point is simply genetic variation (population genetics). There is far too much variation in piracetam to conclude that it causes cognitive enhancement in any individual. If thats true of piracetam it is a bit bleak for its racetam relatives.

    Oh I use citicoline daily. Imminist claim the science on this is strong ... I dunno but at 500mg per day it can't hurt.
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    I don't really discuss noots on AM 'cause its for muscle stuff.

    Anway DMAE you are better using centrophenoxine . It is a lot more expensive though. Choline citrate I think would be better than DMAE. The basic theory is about increasing the speed at which the brain works and acetylcholine is foundational.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    I don't really discuss noots on AM 'cause its for muscle stuff.

    Anway DMAE you are better using centrophenoxine . It is a lot more expensive though. Choline citrate I think would be better than DMAE. The basic theory is about increasing the speed at which the brain works and acetylcholine is foundational.
    Ya, as for as DMAE, I hear that it's effects are on the speed, firing and indirect synthesis of acetylcholine, not so much as a direct production of it. As for centrophenoxine, I've read that it is pretty incredible for its use; the cost is the only thing that strays me away from it, but if the price is right, I'd have no problem in trying it.
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    centrophenoxine: I wouldn't say its incredible and I don't think it as a noot. I use it daily. The fact that I use it and didn't quote it as a noot speaks for itself.

    It is supposed to "clean the brain up". Don't ask me for the reaction I forget it. Its based on DMAE. Older generations get more benefit. You'll often get an old guy on Imminist say how great it is or how great galantium is (I forget the exact spelling but it costs $$$).

    I use it for neuro-protection. People often say it benefits the skin. It might do, I think my skin is clearer - but hey it ain't something I measure or aim for.

    It can't hurt, I think I benefit from it but ALCAR/Lion's mane/schisandra and possibly piracetam/citicoline does it for me.

    Oh check out hyperzine A. I tried it - zip effect, but it really works for some. Its cheap and will be cumulative with the whole shebang. There is something you've gotta be really careful of in noots - if they are too successful - but if you run into trouble ask for help on Imminist. (its could be worse than total shutdown - its the equivalent danger). This ain't the place to go into detailed noots - noots here are either for GH release or stim-free energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    BTW, what about oxiracetam? Does anyone have any experience with that?
    I have some pretty extensive experience with the -racetams, including some of the more oddball analogues (incl. oxiracetam, pramiracetam, and phenylpiracetam). Oxiracetam is probably the most effective -racetam that I have tried in terms of short-term study/exercise effects.

    What exactly are you wondering about?


    My basic thoughts on the compound are as follows--

    - It is water-soluble, so is easily mixed into basically any beverage (unlike Aniracetam or Pramiracetam, both of which have low H2O solubility) and may be taken via RoA other than peroral.

    - Contrary to some previous reports, I actually found Oxiracetam to be more potent than Aniracetam by about 2-fold. It is about 6x more potent than the archetype (Piracetam).

    - It most certainly has the shortest half-life in practice, with the most notable initiation and cessation of effects (including a mild "crash" at higher doses).

    - A higher choline-compensation is required with Oxiracetam. I found that lecithin and other natural sources were insufficient-- only Alpha-GPC was effective in relieving the symptoms of choline-deficiency (though Choline-Citrate in high-doses was mildly effective).

    - Oxiracetam has also undergone a very extensive amount of human testing, though trials in healthy individuals are sorely lacking. Most studies focus on individuals suffering from cognitive decline.


    Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    centrophenoxine:....

    It is supposed to "clean the brain up". Don't ask me for the reaction I forget it. Its based on DMAE.
    Centrophenoxine is a combination of DMAE and pCPA (Parachlorophenoxyacetate), both of which act as precursors to Acetylcholine-- the latter also has been shown to increase phospholipids in cellular membranes, which has been shown to reduce aging-associated oxidative stresses and neurodegeneration.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Oh check out hyperzine A.
    One word of caution on Huperzine-A: high-doses have been shown to incur a certain degree of neurotoxicity, while low doses are quite effective at consolidating short-term memory. Personally, at doses around 400g/day, I have found it to be exceptionally effective in enhancing recall, spontaneous vocabulary, and overall storage efficiency.


    I would also like to put in my proverbial '+1' for Alpha-GPC-- it is easily the most effective Choline delivery mechanism I have encountered (far superior to Lecithin, Choline-Citrate, DMAE and natural source such as bananas).
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGunmen View Post
    I would also like to put in my proverbial '+1' for Alpha-GPC-- it is easily the most effective Choline delivery mechanism I have encountered (far superior to Lecithin, Choline-Citrate, DMAE and natural source such as bananas).
    I myself have heard Alpha-GPC to be the most effect for choline enhancing also, but have also read reviews stating it to have done zip or at least very mild at the most. Could it be the quality? Could it be the dosages? I'm sure it's a mix of both, however that was one of the few reviews on it. I wish centrophenoxine was offered in bulk, primarily because I like to have most if not all my supps in bulk, and noots aren't an exception. But cost and manufacturing play a big role in these type of stuff, so I'm happy with what I can get.

    With school and a tough curriculum, I'm interested in whatever can aid my studies, focus, memory, and the likes. I'm especially interested in something that helps with verbal communication, something that can aid in having "cleaner" and smoother conversations. I sometimes have a tendency to stutter or shuffle my words and it bugs the hell out of me because I don't have a lisp or talking handicap; it's just sometimes sentences come out rushed and sloppy, that's as good as I can explain it really. haha, it's embarrassing just stating that.
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    Anyone used Vipocetine? How does it compare to piracetam? Is choline also required for it' use?
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