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build muscle and lose fat!! can it be done?!

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    build muscle and lose fat!! can it be done?!


    my personal opinion is no. i get asked on a very regular basis "how do i bulk up and get ripped?" i am starting to hate this question as i have always believed it to be not quite impossible, but pointless trying as progress would be painfully slow. i always believed to build muscle a calorie surplus must be adhered to in order to give fuel for the new growing tissue. in order to strip fat a calorie defecit diet must be used so that fat is used as fuel. surely then the 2 cannot be achieved together without the use of AAS or PH's. the only exceptions are newbies that respond to just looking at a dumbell.

    any views or opinions?

    if im wrong please let me know as id like to hear the other side of the argument.

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    Possible, but very difficult to do. It takes a good amount of experience and knowledge to know what your body uses efficiently and what is most beneficial for you.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Not for those asking the question... It automatically shows an ignorance on a lot of things that have to be on point to achieve it. Those who are on AAS etc can achieve it at a much easier level but it still isn't simple.

    Impossible, no. Improbable, yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    Not for those asking the question... It automatically shows an ignorance on a lot of things that have to be on point to achieve it. Those who are on AAS etc can achieve it at a much easier level but it still isn't simple.

    Impossible, no. Improbable, yes.
    I did to a point, but I agree it is impractical. During an M-Drol cycle I did sort of a carb load/deficit type program loading every 3rd or 4th day and restricting slightly other days but did it with overall calories. I`m sure I did not make the gains I could have or lost the fat I could have by committing to one or the other but I was happy with the results. My guess is the muscle I did build helped burn fat by utilizing it for energy on deficit days. I dunno. Like I said, I was happy with my results. I`ll do it again next cycle if needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reptone View Post
    I did to a point, but I agree it is impractical. During an M-Drol cycle I did sort of a carb load/deficit type program loading every 3rd or 4th day and restricting slightly other days but did it with overall calories. I`m sure I did not make the gains I could have or lost the fat I could have by committing to one or the other but I was happy with the results. My guess is the muscle I did build helped burn fat by utilizing it for energy on deficit days. I dunno. Like I said, I was happy with my results. I`ll do it again next cycle if needed.
    good point. as i said it can be done with PH's, but i personally think if you had kept carbs/calories really high through your full cycle you would have made massive gains (especially as M-Drol is super carb hungry). and then you could have cut down after your PCT when estrogen was minimal and fat loss would have been more managable. just a thought for your next cycle.
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    possible yes, practical no.
    practical recomp only works if your trying to lose a small amount of BF, while keeping, or making small gains. If your trying to add serious size, and Lean mass, bulk, then cut. It will be eaiser and probably take less time.
    Again this is free of all hormonals
    If you put a hormonal in the mix, I lost 4% BF and gained 13 pounds, so its a different story.

    I like what was stated above me, If someone asks you a question like that, the anwser should be no because they clearly do not have the exerience to do a recomp
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    It can be done but it just takes a lot longer. I find during my bulking I gain fat pretty quickly and cutting is hard to do without losing a lot of muscle in the process. So I've opted for mostly a recomp by dropping carbs down, keeping protein up and I've lost fat and gained strength at the same time. Strength != muscle gain always but at least I most likely have not lost muscle if strength is going up.
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    Hey Gonzo and Eating... what did you guys take?! im trying to lose bf and tone my body. After that, i'll do another mass cycle since i'd like to be even bigger than i am now. I play sports and everything too so i have no time for lethargy or loss of strength/energy/etc. what can i do?! please help me. thanks. (open to any1-just saw those last 2 posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrynaImprove View Post
    Hey Gonzo and Eating... what did you guys take?! im trying to lose bf and tone my body. After that, i'll do another mass cycle since i'd like to be even bigger than i am now. I play sports and everything too so i have no time for lethargy or loss of strength/energy/etc. what can i do?! please help me. thanks. (open to any1-just saw those last 2 posts)
    Eat less, save anabolics for the mass cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Possible, but very difficult to do. It takes a good amount of experience and knowledge to know what your body uses efficiently and what is most beneficial for you.
    word, you must learn diet and nutrition plus nutrient programming? never heard of it cuz i made it up as far as i know.
    the anabolic diet alows your body to do this. building muscle while maintaing fat is wat ive been doing all my life untill i learn alot about how food works in your body. The degree to which this can be done i think deppends on body type, diet and traing style/intensity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by workout18 View Post
    my personal opinion is no. i get asked on a very regular basis "how do i bulk up and get ripped?" i am starting to hate this question as i have always believed it to be not quite impossible, but pointless trying as progress would be painfully slow. i always believed to build muscle a calorie surplus must be adhered to in order to give fuel for the new growing tissue. in order to strip fat a calorie defecit diet must be used so that fat is used as fuel. surely then the 2 cannot be achieved together without the use of AAS or PH's. the only exceptions are newbies that respond to just looking at a dumbell.

    any views or opinions?

    if im wrong please let me know as id like to hear the other side of the argument.
    Being completely honest if a bodybuilder has a solid base and alot of experience under his belt it is VERY possible. I actually did a cut this summer where I found my "sweet spot" calorie wise and gained and inch on my arms and gained weight and also cut 6% bf in the process. This is probably a once in a lifetime ordeal and I was very lucky to make an educated guess on how to make my body do this; however, this proves that it is possible (as I was VERY skeptical myself of this unless someone was using AAS). It was 100% natural and all I was taking was a thermogenic, multi, fish oil, glutamine, and whey. However, the question does get EXTREMELY annoying from noobs as it is such an ignorant one for them to be asking, but all you can do is be honest. So personally my answer to your question is a definite yes if someone knows what they are doing. However, I am still on a bulk then cut cycle and will always follow that routine.
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    I believe it can be done, but you must be very disciplined with your diet, cardio, and lifting routine. I dropped about 25 pounds of body fat in close to a three month period while still making consistent strength increases. It is possible.
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    Anabolic Pump can actually help you do this as it increases GLUT4 in muscles which causes nutrients to be directed to muscles and away from fat. Furthermore, it increases AMPk which increases fat burning. Search around and you will see reviews of people getting great recomposition with Anabolic Pump.
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    It has worked for me. I powerlift and strongman train. In October 08 I wieghed 300 pounds and couldnt lift much for my size. Right now I weigh 240 and squat and dead well over 500 and bench over 350. With great muscle gain. By no means am I ripped and nor do I use any supplements that a bodybulder may use. I do have experience in training as I competed in and won the teen NAS nationals 6 years ago now. I quit due to a car accident. I am beginning now to lose fat and tone up.

    Hard work and dedication, with a goal in mind, and you can do anything. I think we rely to much on the supplements rather than the will power of our brains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by loganccga View Post
    It has worked for me. I powerlift and strongman train. In October 08 I wieghed 300 pounds and couldnt lift much for my size. Right now I weigh 240 and squat and dead well over 500 and bench over 350. With great muscle gain. By no means am I ripped and nor do I use any supplements that a bodybulder may use. I do have experience in training as I competed in and won the teen NAS nationals 6 years ago now. I quit due to a car accident. I am beginning now to lose fat and tone up.

    Hard work and dedication, with a goal in mind, and you can do anything. I think we rely to much on the supplements rather than the will power of our brains.
    Supplements are 1% of your total success. The human body is an amazing tool. It is nice to be able to utilize that 1% if at all possible but by all means supplements are just what their name says they are. Build muscle while losing fat? Yessir!
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    thanks for all the posts guys. i didnt doubt for a second that if it could be done it would be the guys on here doing it. ill happily accept it is posible to lose fat and build muscle but you must all agree it takes a huge amount of factors to go right in your trianing, diet, lifestyle and supplementation for it to occur. thanks again guys.
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    Not as difficult as some might think, I am extremely in tune with my body however so maybe my outlook is skewed. First of all you can't be in a hurry to lose fat, that's the key really patience. Point 2 the reason you are getting different opinions is that it is much easier for endo body types .. people who tend gain weight easily. Not only is it practical for this type of person I highly recommend it as the preffered training style. The problem with these types in traditional bulking is they always gain too much fat. Eating close to or just over maintenance calories will ensure them success. The goal should be for maintenance of currrent weight or very gradual weight loss. I use this method with clients often. Bodybuilding in general is really about patience and this method will ensure that.

    Now this method has certainly been made easier with the inclusion of Nutrient partitioners and some of the modern herbal products that help you spare muscle and I can't say enough about BCAA's. Personally I have been able to trim down a couple percent in a couple months while seeing a slight weight gain of about 3 lbs. Like I said it's not earth shattering but with patience big changes are possible. It's about what you do day after day, week after week, month after month year after year.

    I don't like the word can't ... just do it...This kind of recomp is not for everybody though. I would not give it to a hard gainer. It's more for people who have very efficent bodies. Endo's are just that. One of the biggest misunderstandings people have when gettng advice is the fact that bodytype is very important when deciding what kind of a plan is best for the individual.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by juice3320 View Post
    Being completely honest if a bodybuilder has a solid base and alot of experience under his belt it is VERY possible. I actually did a cut this summer where I found my "sweet spot" calorie wise and gained and inch on my arms and gained weight and also cut 6% bf in the process. This is probably a once in a lifetime ordeal and I was very lucky to make an educated guess on how to make my body do this; however, this proves that it is possible (as I was VERY skeptical myself of this unless someone was using AAS). It was 100% natural and all I was taking was a thermogenic, multi, fish oil, glutamine, and whey. However, the question does get EXTREMELY annoying from noobs as it is such an ignorant one for them to be asking, but all you can do is be honest. So personally my answer to your question is a definite yes if someone knows what they are doing. However, I am still on a bulk then cut cycle and will always follow that routine.

    That's the ticket...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Not as difficult as some might think, I am extremely in tune with my body however so maybe my outlook is skewed. First of all you can't be in a hurry to lose fat, that's the key really patience. Point 2 the reason you are getting different opinions is that it is much easier for endo body types .. people who tend gain weight easily. Not only is it practical for this type of person I highly recommend it as the preffered training style. The problem with these types in traditional bulking is they always gain too much fat. Eating close to or just over maintenance calories will ensure them success. The goal should be for maintenance of currrent weight or very gradual weight loss. I use this method with clients often. Bodybuilding in general is really about patience and this method will ensure that.

    Now this method has certainly been made easier with the inclusion of Nutrient partitioners and some of the modern herbal products that help you spare muscle and I can't say enough about BCAA's. Personally I have been able to trim down a couple percent in a couple months while seeing a slight weight gain of about 3 lbs. Like I said it's not earth shattering but with patience big changes are possible. It's about what you do day after day, week after week, month after month year after year.

    I don't like the word can't ... just do it...This kind of recomp is not for everybody though. I would not give it to a hard gainer. It's more for people who have very efficent bodies. Endo's are just that. One of the biggest misunderstandings people have when gettng advice is the fact that bodytype is very important when deciding what kind of a plan is best for the individual.
    when you say endomorph do you mean mesomorph? surely endomorphs would not be able to lose fat in a calorie surlpus due to the fact that their bodies are more proned to fat storage. i still think it would be more practical and faster to do a bulk then cut.

    for the record in no way am i saying you are wrong as i have now accepted that it is possible but is it worth doing. what are the benefits of this slow drawn out process when the pros themselves are bulking and cutting in cycles. if its the way dexter and phil do it then its the way ill do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by workout18 View Post
    when you say endomorph do you mean mesomorph? surely endomorphs would not be able to lose fat in a calorie surlpus due to the fact that their bodies are more proned to fat storage. i still think it would be more practical and faster to do a bulk then cut.

    for the record in no way am i saying you are wrong as i have now accepted that it is possible but is it worth doing. what are the benefits of this slow drawn out process when the pros themselves are bulking and cutting in cycles. if its the way dexter and phil do it then its the way ill do it.
    The pro's use a lot of different kinds of drugs to get things done quickly ...Natural bodybuilding and drug bodybuilding are not the same sports. Recomp is a very good route for a natural bodybuilder. The problem is when I natural guy bulks up and cuts is he often gains too much fat when he bulks and loses too much muscle when he cuts. I slower approach and he will retain far more mass. I will compete close to 20 lbs heavier and will be leaner that I ever was because of recomp. If it were not for recomp I would not be competing as I was getting very little progress with traditional methods. Another point a natural bodybuilder really should not be in a position where he needs to lose 40+ lbs for a competiton. He really wants to be between 20 and 30 pounds out when he starts his prep. When an endo goes on a straight bulk this is very difficult to do. Oh yah another point retained muscle = greater fat burn. Fast fat loss leads to greater muscle loss = less fat burn. I don't know enough about the other kind of bodybuilding to comment I just know their methods don't work on me.

    Endo's gain muscle just as fast as they gain fat. The trick is to find the sweet spot as someone pointed out.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    The pro's use a lot of different kinds of drugs to get things done quickly ...Natural bodybuilding and drug bodybuilding are not the same sports. Recomp is a very good route for a natural bodybuilder. The problem is when I natural guy bulks up and cuts is he often gains too much fat when he bulks and loses too much muscle when he cuts. I slower approach and he will retain far more mass. I will compete close to 20 lbs heavier and will be leaner that I ever was because of recomp. If it were not for recomp I would not be competing as I was getting very little progress with traditional methods. Another point a natural bodybuilder really should not be in a position where he needs to lose 40+ lbs for a competiton. He really wants to be between 20 and 30 pounds out when he starts his prep. When an endo goes on a straight bulk this is very difficult to do. Oh yah another point retained muscle = greater fat burn. Fast fat loss leads to greater muscle loss = less fat burn. I don't know enough about the other kind of bodybuilding to comment I just know their methods don't work on me.

    Endo's gain muscle just as fast as they gain fat. The trick is to find the sweet spot as someone pointed out.


    great post.
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    Definitely. Without changing your diet one can weight lift regularly and build mucle. Increase is muscle mass increases metabolism. Overtime if the person's diet is exactly the same he will lose body fat because his metabolism has increased from the lean muscle he has gained. That is a slow process but one example. I've been able to simultaneously lose fat/gain muscle many times over the years. Tracking body fat/measurements, weight, strength. I believe the key is focusing on your resistance training. Even your cardio should be designed to incorporate your type 2 muscle fibers. Think HITT. Intervals, Sprinting, Jumprope, jumps,ext. Then there's diet. Nutrient timing is huge. Keeping your glycogen system steady around workout times. Remember that carbs are protein sparring Utilize them to preserve muscle. On a diet A lot of people will pound a sugar free energy drink to get them through their workout when all they are doing is forcing the body to use the little stored sugar they have for energy that they don't have on their already low carb/ low calorie/ low energy diet.The diet that is using their protein mainly for energy and not for building. So how can they build muscle? Carbs are essential to muscle building!

    You want proof that you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Look at the body of a sprinter! Basically train similiar to a sprinter and you can do it. That's how I train. Lots of resistance training and lots of resistance in my cardio too. Again FOCUS ON RESISTANCE!
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

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    hmmm, heres my 5 cents,

    Try increasing base calorie intake by 500 calories (complex carbs primarily) above maintenance on workout days.
    On non-workout days, consume 500 calories below maintenance (primarily via the restriction of carbs, and saturated fats while increasing Protein and omega-3 on the off days as your primary calorie source).

    For example, 3 days "bulking" 4 days "cutting" or visa versa if your goal is more bulk than cut.

    As mentioned above, progress MAY be slower, but PERSONALLY i think you'll find its possible to gain muscle and reduce bf% this way. This is how I do it, and it produces solid constant results. A good natty test booster really benefits this type of protocol.

    Obviously you can play around with the calories, but the main point is, more calories on workout days - primarily from carbs and your usual protein intake, and less calories (below maintenance) on the off days with the main source of calories being from protein and omega-3.

    - Mashed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MashedPotato View Post
    hmmm, heres my 5 cents,

    Try increasing base calorie intake by 500 calories (complex carbs primarily) above maintenance on workout days.
    On non-workout days, consume 500 calories below maintenance (primarily via the restriction of carbs, and saturated fats while increasing Protein and omega-3 on the off days as your primary calorie source).

    For example, 3 days "bulking" 4 days "cutting" or visa versa if your goal is more bulk than cut.

    As mentioned above, progress MAY be slower, but PERSONALLY i think you'll find its possible to gain muscle and reduce bf% this way. This is how I do it, and it produces solid constant results. A good natty test booster really benefits this type of protocol.

    Obviously you can play around with the calories, but the main point is, more calories on workout days - primarily from carbs and your usual protein intake, and less calories (below maintenance) on the off days with the main source of calories being from protein and omega-3.

    - Mashed.
    yah I agree with the concept and do something similar. I tend to up my calories the day after a workout then I train at around 7pm so that would make sense. If I trained in the morning then I would probably be hungrier and eat more on workout days. Anywho a lot of it is just listening to your body. If your hungry eat just make good choices.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    I've been doing alternate day fasting, and its easier it seems to manage the recomp that way. eating cutoff is the 6pm meal workout days (workouts are first thing in the morning so thats 10+ hours of decent eating post workout) and then I eat nothing at all till the next day at 6pm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I've been doing alternate day fasting, and its easier it seems to manage the recomp that way. eating cutoff is the 6pm meal workout days (workouts are first thing in the morning so thats 10+ hours of decent eating post workout) and then I eat nothing at all till the next day at 6pm...
    Yah I use a carb cycle, not only is if fairly effective but allows you to take advantage of higher calorie days.
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