The question in reference to the USP type of situation isn't the same but it isn't that much different either. It may not be tainted and it may not be mislabeled but the various herbs used may not have human specific results, in supplementing healthy males for extended periods of time, either. Now, i'm not saying there are or will be any sides. Merely pointing out that a lack of current applicable research can give a little fog in seeing your future as well.

My point is that it still falls on the consumer and in this industry it requires some common sense, research, and a little bit of faith(trust). Choose wisely and always get the checkups on the insides regardless of how the outside looks

Originally Posted by sean vax

I am confused is there any illegal or prescription drugs... in slim sx anything illegal.. Is proline illegal or unsafe or both.

Thats the million dollar question.

if fda says slimx is so damned harmful why haven't they made an announcement warning people not to use. this whole mess is starting to stink.

If every company is to have everything cGMP certified for quality, I see many companies going out of business because of the money it will take.

So far my interpretation is that it contains a product that isn't illegal per se but can be potentially harmful given the list of side effects... However, i've seen about 3 items referenced with varying degrees of sides. My experience from 3 days use is that it fits one in particular but the effects I got from it aren't what a lot of people are reporting.

At 1 pill there has been no meth/coke/ephedrine type of sides or symptoms. Mostly just an awake feeling and absolutely no hunger at all from within an hor of taking it to going to bed. Holding off on more results before deciding to throw the bottle away or not.

Not listed properly and having postential major health issues are two different beasts, to me.

Originally Posted by dg806

If every company is to have everything cGMP certified for quality, I see many companies going out of business because of the money it will take.

Prices will generally go up across the board if everyone is on the same playing field. Companies will pass on the cost.

A legit increase in product cost that's not overinflated is a welcomed price in my book. However, i'm not counting on that boat to float just yet

I think I finally got a few answers to what is going on now thanks guys.

SX put me in the hospital back in May and I went through psychosis which was the worst thing that has ever happened to me. It's obvious why they wanted the forum pulled because I posted about my experience and some reps said it was because I mixed it with green tea and TTA. I tried to warn the company about my experience but they disregarded my concerns. The FDA has all my information. The thing that pissed me off the most is that AX didn't take anything I said seriously and now 4 months later if it's so safe why have they had to pull it off the market? I just didn't want what happened to me to happen to someone else. Whatever is in SX does not affect everyone the same. I had been on Celexa for 10 years which lowered my dopamine production and taking SX may have shot it through the roof making me psychotic after taking it for 6 weeks. I felt so great the first few weeks that it seemed like the stuff was the best thing I had ever taken. I didn't know anything in it could screw me up.

I've seen several doctors since my experience and the conclusion is still that I experienced an amphetamine induced psychosis. (reps flamed me for mentioning this). I never got a refund either like promised on the money back gurantee - my wife threw the rest of the product in the trash when I was in the hospital. I was on my second bottle.

I used to use stims like ECA very heavily in the past and never had any reaction from them. This experience was a first in my entire life and a direct result of SX. It might have been safe for some people but if it lands someone in the hospital with psychosis and the company ignores the claims then I don't think they are going to get off that easy on this one.

Do a google search on Slim Xtreme and psychosis - I had posted a review back in May telling about my psychosis on Bulk Nutrition and it got copied to several other sites. It's not like there weren't any red flags about this stuff. AX ignored it from the start.

I probably won't be checking back here to answer any other questions but if you want to know more specifics feel free to PM me.

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

While I agree that supplement companies putting in different than advertised ingredients should be held accountable, I feel like some of you are really pulling on the drama role here a little bit... Can any of you that are upset about not having the proper ingredients listed even know what any of the stuff that was supposed to be in there does? Most of these new supplements have little to no real scientific study on them except for ancient Indian tribal medicinal herbs that have almost zero Western backing at this point.

At the same time you want company reliability and accountability, take some damn personal responsibility too.

**MY opinion and not Anabolicminds.com

true dat. but i would nevertheless like to know what I am taking and i would prefer to know if the product i am taking does contain a novel substance with unknown risk data. knowing this, i could eventually decide to not take this product.

Originally Posted by benj851

I care completely about my health. I took this product for june, and august 3 bottles. in the first week of september I got my yearly psychical with bloodwork. Doctor said everything besides my weight... which is down 32 lbs... not nearly because of slim x however I'm sure that has helped; was right down the center. nothing is wrong with me. I like the product. I'll take it for another month. I still have a bottle and a half, and then go back to the doctor.

knowing that I am on various supp's and yet completely 'A' okay means that, in my case, for my body, Slim X doesn't effect me negatively or has not effected me negatively yet.

However through the blue threads, and the bb'ing threads, all risks of the sides noted, and guessed to be effected with the actual compound were noted to be in effect within weeks not months.

this is a very good post and shows that people can still decide for themselves whether they are willing to take certain risks or not - as long as they are aware of potential risks.

it moreover accurately reflects that different people may react in different ways on a compound. some might get unpleasant sides, other will not.
That's the same thing as with any other drug or compound as well.

A little bit of information for you. AX has outsourced a consulting team which includes a biochemist and a toxicologist. Getting these people together and available to work together seems to be the biggest factor in why it is taking so long to get back to you with answers to all of the questions. Please continue to have a little patience with me. Anything new that I get I will pass on to you.

Thanks everyone,
Jim

BTW, the FDA report no longer list tren in HX2. I'm trying to figure out how to post it here. I know it's on bb.

Not sure how much of this reply is directed towards my posts in particular but what the hell

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Tell ya what; give me a list of current supplements that you're taking and link me their complete ingredient profile and you tell me what each of these do to you as a singular product and then combined with their synergistic effects. Now tell me in what dose they are acceptable and what all the side effects are. I would be willing to bet that most do not have these answers. They are looking for two things: 1. Effects and 2. Effects. If DNP were legal it would sell like hotcakes

1. Whey Protein
2........
Do you still need said link? DNP....hotcakes....my pun sense is tingling. And no, DNP would not sell like hotcakes.

How many threads do you read here where people consume 2x 3x 4x+ of the recommended dose as well as stacking it with other products that have little to no evidence in a real world environment.

Look at how the people are sacrificing college funds to get in on these liquidation sales on the same products we're discussing (minus SX which can still be found out there)



This isn't the same as buying turkey and it being chicken. That solely falls on the manufacturer because you know chicken and you know turkey. My point is that this industry is mostly filled with nomenclature and ingredients that hardly anyone has any educated information on. Now, that being said, it doesn’t remove liability from the company. What it also doesn't do is relieve you of your responsibility.

I totally agree....in part. But when i buy from a well established brand with a well thought of reputation on a global scale i dont expect to have to check under the hood. Should i learn all about the new Audi engine because i am effectively putting my life in its hands every time i drive to work? Come on man.

The rep told me
The bottle said
The logs said
These are some of the more commonly used reasons of 'trust' put on items with almost zero understanding by the consumer(yes there are exceptions). I'm wondering if this same blind trust is placed elsewhere in people's lives except for religion. People leave faith to worshiping your God not to what you're ingesting in your bodies.

Going back to your stance on comparisons, if a sales rep in an Audi dealership tells me the car comes with 'XYZ' and it comes to light it does not, there is instant recourse, with supplement companies especially those appointing reps who are worse shape that my obese lesbian cousin there seems to be little in the way of ownership of issues.

I do not believe in a deity supernatural or superhuman so that's out of the window, that "blind trust" is exercised on a daily basis whenever a consumer buys ANY commodity with internal components that are figuratively "under the hood".

P.s. I purposely missed out the turkey/chicken paragraph, i think i would have had to go 'full retard' to have fully grasped the notion.

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

So basically, you had symptoms you were fine subjecting yourself continually to and regardless of actual blood work and doctor diagnosis, you just decided it was 'normal' because some bros said so? How would this have changed things if it said something else besides proline analog? To me your answers here reinforce my point that people just casually 'research' products solely off what they say they are and not much more.

If you truly believe that the average consumer and by consumer i mean that which consumes any product not limited to supplements researches every ingredient/compound/chemical/additive in what they eat/drink/drive/****/wash their balls with you must live in your own little world called "Jays fluffy paradigm". It sounds nice, im not knocking it.

Let me add that i'm throwing myself into this as well. It isn't a soapbox but an obersation how we should look at our practices and adjust ourselves accordingly. I was pissed when the whole Venom thing came to light but after I sat back and took a breath I realized I was spewing fire in the wrong direction. Regardless of what they said in their write-up I know how I felt and I know how I reacted but the bottom line was i was willing to put myself through it for the results.

I agree though, there is a bigger picture here than petty squabbling across boards and the internet, it has certainly woken me up to the implications of these compounds, having never been a big supplement user apart from whey and amino's this will be my last for a while, i think i can be forgiven by the mighty Jay for being swept away with the hype surrounding SX, that said maybe my internal organs wont be so sympathetic.

It doesn't help though when part owners or head reps are offering people to meet up and fight on popular forums (not this one).

"oh so when we ask for answers we dont get any, but you have time to offer to fly someone out to fight you"

Magical.

The old saying about if it is too good to be true, it may be applies here.

SX was just like the old Hyperdrive. People were getting ridiculous results from them, and it seemed too good to be an OTC supplement. Everyone knows Hyperdrive turned out to have something in it not listed, and apparently the same is true for SX.

I took SX, the first few days were great, but around day 4 or 5 I felt so cracked out. I quit taking it, and honestly it took almost a week to feel normal again. It was the roughest mess.

I fully believe then and now for sure, that there is something in SX that was the underlying cause. I took the old Hyperdrive with no problem, but SX was a different beast. Most people compared it to adderall and meth and speed, those that had experiences with these drugs. Obviously, there is something there and now people have been slamming down SX for a few months, and have no idea what they were really taking.

Folks,

I know this is my first post here for some time now and I do apologize for that. I do have valid excuses, none of them include "hiding" at all, but do include a crappy dial-up connection at my office that takes forever for AM to load, going where I am needed in order to monitor the rep team and situations as they arise (which usually is not here on AM), and having good faith that Jim has things taken care of quite well here. I apologize for my absence and in now way does it represent any lack of caring for the AM crew. I've been on this board for a while now and like to call it one of my own "homes".

That being said, I know that even posting right now will more than likely draw a few scowls from the likes of IL and a few others who see fit to battle me and my admitted arrogance no matter what I say. If you choose to do so, then that's fine. I won't argue with you any longer - it's childish and there's no good to come from it. I've been through all sorts of crap in the last few days and have gone through the overly stressed phase to the "just gotta laugh" phase. Nothing personal said online phases me, and I've said that from the very beginning. Afterall, when we're all tired of it, all we need to is click that little X in the top right corner and walk away to resume our real lives.

I want to publicly commend Jim for his responses and for taking heat in this thread. He's become a respected member of this community in the past few months and I am thankful for it. I know that he handles himself well, is always professional, and his honesty and integrity are bar none the highest that I could ever ask for. I wanted him on my team for a reason, and it looks like I was right to do so. Jim, good job, buddy. Thanks.

To the naysayers regarding the issues at hand... There are many reasons why things were done as of late. Some of these reasons were stated accurately and genuinely, while others are still waiting for "proper" justification. We have not disappeared from this forum, nor do we plan to do so. The invisibility of the AX forum was done at a request, not as a disciplinary measure. If it were disciplinary, we would not be allowed to post here nor would we be allowed to retain "rep" and "board sponsor" status. The team was given the option to take the week off to avoid the headache and heartache of the drama as of late. This was not a move to avoid the issue, but merely because, as Jim has stated, we simply have no news on anything as of yet.

The HX2 issue... As mentioned, the FDA report has been amended and Tren is no longer listed as a substance found in the product. In testing, Tren creates a very definitive and unique spike that would have been quite obvious. It simply was not there. It has been speculated for some time now, since Pat Arnold's ordeal with 6-oxo, that similar substances may degrade into andro over time. Whether it is an oxidation issue or what, it is not clear. But this is one avenue that we are going to pursue. The exact reason that it was shown to contain minute traces of andro is unknown, but we are hoping to find that out. When that happens, all will be made aware, I'm sure. Until that time, HX2 is no more. The FDA has had its eyes on AIs for a while now and it looks like the rumors are coming to fruition.

The SX issue... Again, as mentioned, we have no further information to release at this time. No information is yet available. The steps taken to pull the product were done so due to the massive speculation that ensued after independent testing done to attempt to recognize this "mystery ingredient" - the proline analog. Yes, we are persuing a patent on the formula, and could not divulge much information on the complete formulation of SX until that was published. But we are beyond that stage now, as the situation has forced us to do so. Though we maintain that the safety and efficacy of the product is as we had stated, we are taking all of the appropriate steps to have everything re-verified by outside sources. Things are now being triple-checked by a third party in order to verify and validate claims. Again, this has been stated and is nothing new, but it is stated again to validate that statement. It must be known that testing procedures, though extremely accurate, are not always perfect. I don't argue with tests already done, nor did I ever. But further testing to a more minute level should be done in order to properly attain the exact molecular structure of what is in question. To use an analogy, you can see with a magnifying glass more than the naked eye. You can see more with a microscope. You can see even more with an electron microscope. Right now, it's been looked at with a very very good microscope, but is just a tad skewed. There is often a huge difference in something so small. The devil is in the details, and the difference between toxicity and boon to health is often one of those extremely fine details. Further clarification is needed, and we will provide that in days to come. Whatever the outcome, we will take the steps necessary.

That, folks, is the official status to date. As my integrity has been questioned as of late, feel free to comment at will. If you have questions or concerns, we always openly invite all to PM or email us and we will do the best that we can to satisfy your requests to the best of our abilities.

Thank you with your continued patience. May we all find peace and unite in our common goals to become better than we are.

Originally Posted by Iron Lungz

Does AppNut test ALL of their raws and have a COA for them? Just curious.

I said I would get back to you on this... here you go.

we use a variety of testing for purity, potency, and ID- loss on drying, disintegration testing, bulk density, organoleptic and visual analysis, seive analysis, HPLC, NMR, UV-Vis, NIR, ICP-MS, and pH- really depends on the type of raw material- some tests are more appropriate than others for any given compound.....

thanks t-ad

Sorry but HyperdrolX2 contam. with Tren? Come on this is a RUMOUR nothing more. The product may have had minor contaminants.

AX's SX there is no question this stuff is potent and I did wonder where the potency came from. It does have time release sulbutiamine in it - making it better than pharmaceutical grade. Clearly a pharmaceutical could argue this was drug development and it might well be. To suggest that a psychostimulant had been placed in SX - I doubt that alot. Precisely how they forumated the sulbutiamine I dunno - and it might be what they combined it with, but any suggestion that this got through R&D with a non-OTC product in it ... its got to be no.

I'm not supported, sponsored or even know any of the AX guys, just if you've a product as potent as SX its gonna ruffle a few feathers. You've got a prescription strength product that didn't need the 10years and $$$$ of FDA approval. Quite a feat?

subscribed. Kind of a shame I ordered some SX on Friday. It gets here today and I read all this stuff. D'oh!

Ah well. I guess it's back to cytolean or leviathan for me.

I am sure there will be lots of takers.

You made it too difficult to answer your quotes to mine but i'll address your points.


1. DNP- was open for sale and was removed; not through lack of consumers but due to health risks. It's pretty much the standard in what people will do to achieve goals. However, neither one of us know for sure if it would or not but I still believe people wouldn't be able to keep it stocked if it were legal again.

2. Slight difference between Audi and one of these typical supplements. For one, the business model with protections and such are not able to be compared(reference hiding things because of knock offs etc). Second, you don't need to know how everything works because of the standards and watchdog groups and proven mechanical, technical and environmental aspects. With these supplements you have none of this. You have a lot of guess work with no real way of varifying anything and with such a small market in comparison you don't have the level of scrutiny associated with it.


Again, for the full retard seats, you have to provide a level of interest and responsibility in your health that you wouldn't have to do with most other purchases in your life because of how this particular industry works and obviously accepted. 9 out of 10 times if your car tire explodes it isn't going to be deadly. If your heart explodes there's a good chance you're done...

You say it's the business' fault 100% and the consumer is free from responsibility on taking unregulated and in most cases unknown ingredients into the body for the sole purpose to elicit a unnatural response.

I say it's the company's fault for putting these products out without properly researching their product and making sure quality control is in place and proper testing has been done on human test subjects AND the consumer is at fault because they should know the inherent risks in taking a product with little more than a promise, a smile,brief references and some user logs. Some people are more at fault than others (addressing those following label directions over those overdosing).
/full retard

At this point I don't think either of our opinions/stances will change but I will say this...This isn't the first time this has been an issue since my arrival on the supplement scene and it damn sure won't be the last. How long has it been since the ALRI situation??

All I know is it is hard to say SX didn't work for a lot of people. I usually drag ass at college but when I was taking SX I was alert and ready to go. Lets just say today I was having to fight to stay awake.

Oh and to add to my point: As soon as people heard the PH's were tainted with actual steroids they flew off the shelves like mad. Not too many people had the same uproar. When dealing with SX people found the drugs it could be or similar to and noticed there's a good chance it could give plenty of long lasting focus energy and appetite suppression, it sold well too. Just in case it mimicked a drug with the desired effects, regardless of the sides.

Very few people even consider the 'sides' or toxicity in this setting. YOU may be pissed but there are ten guys behind you ordering from a .com to try and pick it up before it's gone. Would you still say it's all the business and none of the consumer's fault?

Originally Posted by Tomahawk88

All I know is it is hard to say SX didn't work for a lot of people. I usually drag ass at college but when I was taking SX I was alert and ready to go. Lets just say today I was having to fight to stay awake.

i don't think anyone say's it didn't work, i just finished my 3rd bottle-not back to back, but over time. to be honest i never had any bad effects from it. on some days i took 3 of them. my feeling was it lasted a long time but i never thought i was overstimmed. i will miss the effects of slimx, but the effects were not worth the risk to health if that proves to be the case. if anabolic extreme proves their case that it is safe then i would have used it again if it were available. if the fda is going after slimx just because it works so damned good then bodybuilding forums will be a waste of time, because every time we praise a supplement it will be targeted.

Tomahawk- I have taken SX and I've taken Venom, ECA ECY,etc etc. I've had a wide range of sides when on various compounds over the years... Some scary and some I barely noticed.

Appetite suppression
Focus
Alert but not overdone
Loooong lasting effect of feeling awake.

Not nervous or paranoid or any meth type sides. I also had a co-worker on it before me who reports the same exact thing. She is doing fine. However, we both have stopped until we know more since we don't want to risk anything avoidable. I know that isn't proof of safety in the slightest but using my experience I've come to believe that those experiencing these extreme sides may be either dosing far higher than 1-2 caps or for far longer than a few weeks. This would pretty much be in line with most things out there; namely don't abuse a product and more is not always better.

*******Do not take my personal experience as support of AX and this situation. Just stating my experience and sitting here waiting like the rest of you********

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Tomahawk- I have taken SX and I've taken Venom, ECA ECY,etc etc. I've had a wide range of sides when on various compounds over the years... Some scary and some I barely noticed.

Appetite suppression
Focus
Alert but not overdone
Loooong lasting effect of feeling awake.

Not nervous or paranoid or any meth type sides. I also had a co-worker on it before me who reports the same exact thing. She is doing fine. However, we both have stopped until we know more since we don't want to risk anything avoidable. I know that isn't proof of safety in the slightest but using my experience I've come to believe that those experiencing these extreme sides may be either dosing far higher than 1-2 caps or for far longer than a few weeks. This would pretty much be in line with most things out there; namely don't abuse a product and more is not always better.

*******Do not take my personal experience as support of AX and this situation. Just stating my experience and sitting here waiting like the rest of you********

I wasnt inferring people were saying it didnt work I was just saying that is something people cant say about it. I personally loved the stuff. I would take only 1 and would be good. Now though I feel as though I am going through withdrawls almost lol. I need my fix of SX. I hope all this gets cleared away and SX is deemed safe because I miss it but wont take it at the risk of my health when I do plenty to endanger it as it is.

Sorry, wasn't implying that. I was just using your name to add to your post and give my experience.

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Sorry, wasn't implying that. I was just using your name to add to your post and give my experience.

maybe we should all just post up what great results we get with that thar cell tech. damn, 20 pounds in a month.

WOW. If there is a time when I couldn't be more pissed, that time is now. Right when this bluelight drama was going on, I sent identical PMs to all the AX reps I could find and pleaded to not have SX pulled before I got a chance to try it. And now I will never get a chance to try it, great just freakin great. Physics, Calculus and Computer Science, along with other classes this term, fckin great. I was so looking forward to my next order. The FDA will find any damn reason to bring up a raid. I could careless about the PHs because I don't touch them, but I was HIGHLY, HIGHLY looking forward to trying out SX because of the enormous positive reviews I've read about it's focus and motivation.

Does anyone know if SX is still available in stores and other retailers? I'll be damned if I don't get to try at least 1 run at this. I could use all the help I can get this term for school.

Fckin damnit.