Creatine Mono may affect T : DHT Ratio

  1. Creatine Mono may affect T : DHT Ratio


    Interesting, would like to see this duplicated.

    Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine
    Issue: Volume 19(5), September 2009, pg. 399-404

    Three Weeks of Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation Affects Dihydrotestosterone to Testosterone Ratio in College-Aged Rugby Players

    Abstract

    Objective: This study investigated resting concentrations of selected androgens after 3 weeks of creatine supplementation in male rugby players. It was hypothesized that the ratio of dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a biologically more active androgen) to testosterone (T) would change with creatine supplementation.

    Design: Double-blind placebo-controlled crossover study with a 6-week washout period.

    Setting: Rugby Institute in South Africa.

    Participants: College-aged rugby players (n = 20) volunteered for the study, which took place during the competitive season.

    Interventions: Subjects loaded with creatine (25 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose) or placebo (50 g/day glucose) for 7 days followed by 14 days of maintenance (5 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose or 30 g/day glucose placebo).

    Main Outcome Measures: Serum T and DHT were measured and ratio calculated at baseline and after 7 days and 21 days of creatine supplementation (or placebo). Body composition measurements were taken at each time point.

    Results: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

    Conclusions: Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition.

    Statement of Clinical Relevance: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.


  2. I'm curious if E2 levels were altered at all. Also, if T levels did not change, but DHT increased, is it increasing the life of DHT, or is T production increasing and turning into more DHT...
  3. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    how interesting
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    I'm curious if E2 levels were altered at all. Also, if T levels did not change, but DHT increased, is it increasing the life of DHT, or is T production increasing and turning into more DHT...
    Exactly the two points I'd like to know as well. Also instead of just E2, I would like to know if it affected overall estrogen levels because of increased test or DHT. Very interesting article.

  5. this is y i grew a beard when i startd using CM when i was 16 hahahahaha

  6. Could it be that lifting a little more affects dht?

  7. Wow, my friend swears that creatine makes him a mean, short tempered, impatient a$$. I always told him it was all in his head, but maybe he had some dht rage.. LOL

  8. As this was posted elsewhere, I wonder if it returned to baseline, because if I am not mistaken it was showing it kept decreasing with further use..so it'll be intereting if there may be a future study with a bit longer use/duration and see if the levels return to baseline...

  9. I had originally posted this in a thread supporting my arguement that creatine on cycle messes with your base hormone levels, and wuz not nessecary. But would serve a better purpose as a part of PCT.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    I had originally posted this in a thread supporting my arguement that creatine on cycle messes with your base hormone levels, and wuz not nessecary. But would serve a better purpose as a part of PCT.
    Could you elaborate on this a little more? If I understand the study right, it elevated DHT by 56% on a 7-day loading phase and then remained 40% ABOVE baseline after a 14-day maintenance, while having no effect on serum testosterone levels.

    I don't get it, wouldn't this be considered detrimental to gains as DHT is more androgenic than it is anabolic? Although creatine mono does have other ways of increasing strength and size, I wouldn't necessarily want my DHT levels that high. Now you suggest that cycling creatine shouldn't be practiced because it messes with your base hormone levels? Are you saying that it should be used year round without any breaks? And if so, what dosages are you suggesting?

    I always was under the impression that any type of creatine, and supplement, should be cycled for the exact opposite benefits; to prevent tolerance and diminishing effects. Minus multis, whey/casein, omegas, AAs, and antioxidants.

    I don't know about you but I wouldn't want my DHT levels significantly higher than my T levels. I'm having a hard enough time keeping the hair off my body and keeping it on my head.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    Could you elaborate on this a little more? If I understand the study right, it elevated DHT by 56% on a 7-day loading phase and then remained 40% ABOVE baseline after a 14-day maintenance, while having no effect on serum testosterone levels.

    I don't get it, wouldn't this be considered detrimental to gains as DHT is more androgenic than it is anabolic? Although creatine mono does have other ways of increasing strength and size, I wouldn't necessarily want my DHT levels that high. Now you suggest that cycling creatine shouldn't be practiced because it messes with your base hormone levels? Are you saying that it should be used year round without any breaks? And if so, what dosages are you suggesting?

    I always was under the impression that any type of creatine, and supplement, should be cycled for the exact opposite benefits; to prevent tolerance and diminishing effects. Minus multis, whey/casein, omegas, AAs, and antioxidants.

    I don't know about you but I wouldn't want my DHT levels significantly higher than my T levels. I'm having a hard enough time keeping the hair off my body and keeping it on my head.
    i will grab the info from the other site and post it here, and the one to really talk to on this is Trauma1 as he also clarified it on the other site as well.And i feel ya on the hair, last cycle my forearms were so itchy from the DHT and folicle growth(i think, man i wanted to scratch my arms with razor blades, keys and anything else i could scrape on it)

  12. Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    i will grab the info from the other site and post it here, and the one to really talk to on this is Trauma1 as he also clarified it on the other site as well.And i feel ya on the hair, last cycle my forearms were so itchy from the DHT and folicle growth(i think, man i wanted to scratch my arms with razor blades, keys and anything else i could scrape on it)
    bump, any info from other site?

  13. so is the general agreement that we should be concerned by this study with 20 people?

  14. I wouldn’t concern myself to much with this one study. Creatine is one of the most studied products on the market. There are hundreds of studies that show that it doesn’t affect hormonal levels to any significant degree. Moreover, it is classified as GRAS which means it’s safe for long term usage.

  15. http://www.prohormoneforum.com/proho...lmost-icu.html


    here is one post about creatine and its affects

  16. Interesting...I know for myself, when I do a loading phase I break out on my face, back,chest and arms..then it levels off....I break out again when I cease taking it also.

  17. I wouldn't be alarmed by this study. All we need is people to think creatine greatly affects hormones as word spreads and soon it will be banned too.

    This is just a theory but this study said it took place during a competitive season. The stress of competition alone could have raised DHT levels could it have not? It could have had nothing to do with creatine consumption. There are always other factors and they didn't seem to consider that in this. It's been proven that stress effects hormonal balance.
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    I wouldn't be alarmed by this study. All we need is people to think creatine greatly affects hormones as word spreads and soon it will be banned too.

    This is just a theory but this study said it took place during a competitive season. The stress of competition alone could have raised DHT levels could it have not? It could have had nothing to do with creatine consumption. There are always other factors and they didn't seem to consider that in this. It's been proven that stress effects hormonal balance.
    One huge component to research is replication. This helps to confirm its reliability and 1 study cannot do that. I like the direction that this study is going and would love to see full bloodwork at the beginning, end, and post-cessation of the trial.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    One huge component to research is replication. This helps to confirm its reliability and 1 study cannot do that. I like the direction that this study is going and would love to see full bloodwork at the beginning, end, and post-cessation of the trial.
    Yes, It would have to be a much longer study. I would like them to start it at the beginning of the season. Let's say training camp.. get results middle season then go to the end of the season and get results as well. This way you can note if stress played a role and also if DHT levels leveled off or what.
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  20. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).


    IMHO this indicates that creatine must of had something to do with the ratios otherwise why would this number be significantly higher after loading and drop once maintenance began? (seems to be directly correlated with the dose of creatine)

  21. now im off to down my 50g of creatine
  

  
 

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