17 HD OR ARIMATEST?

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    17 HD OR ARIMATEST?


    They are both all natural and I am going to run one of them for a little while. I've had some good results in the past with 17 hd. I do not have the money to buy another product and I already have both of these (given to me by friend that works for a supplement company) so if you have any feedback on which one I should take or if I should take them at the same time (I do not think this is practical but if I'm wrong let me know).

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    I have tried arimatest and had good results. Lost inches around the waist and gained strength that has lasted.
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    Dude... there's no need to post this in three different subforums.

    Oh, and you're 18... why in the hell would you consider taking an anti-estrogen????
    RTR.
    •   
       

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    sorry man I wanted to get results from different crowds. I just won my first posing comp this summer as a comp bodybuilder and I think I will go up a weight class next year and I wanted to try an all natural supp like this because I am doing a program called the growth surge project and in the second phase you work out two times per day (with weights) and it is recommended that you take a PH (but I'm staying away from that sh**) to help heal and stay anabolic in this two week phase due to your muscles with be completely trashed by working out so frequently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice3300 View Post
    sorry man I wanted to get results from different crowds. I just won my first posing comp this summer as a comp bodybuilder and I think I will go up a weight class next year and I wanted to try an all natural supp like this because I am doing a program called the growth surge project and in the second phase you work out two times per day (with weights) and it is recommended that you take a PH (but I'm staying away from that sh**) to help heal and stay anabolic in this two week phase due to your muscles with be completely trashed by working out so frequently.
    Look man, an OTC anti-estrogen can be just as detrimental to you at this point as the prohormones. The one product you mentioned is hormonal. The other is just garbage. It's obvious you've done no research... and you can't tell me anything about 6-bromo... yet you want opinions on whether to take it??? Wtf??? You have to see how irritating that is. I see threads like this all the time. Then I read the next thread where some guy is suing RPN because he took Havoc for 5 months straight.

    I'm not trying to be a douche. If I didn't give a sh#t, I wouldn't post at all. If you want continued success at your competitions, stay away from ANYTHING that messes around with estrogen or testosterone.

    Oh, and your friend that works for the supplement company is either a completely irresponsible idiot... or not your friend at all.

    PM me if you want to discuss other options pertaining to supplementation. I'd be more than happy to help you.
    RTR.
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    i took 17HD and it was the **** im 19, 20 here soon. i was about 19 and a half when i took it ! it was amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    i took 17HD and it was the **** im 19, 20 here soon. i was about 19 and a half when i took it ! it was amazing.
    Really??? This was amazing???

    17-HD Supplement Facts:

    Serving Size: 1 Capsule
    Servings Per Container: 30

    Amount Per Serving:
    17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
    Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
    Smilax Officinalis
    N.O. Oliliacae
    Betaecdysterone 100mg
    Wild yam extract 100mg
    Glabra 100mg
    Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
    Citric acid 50mg

    There is no such substance as 17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone... it's a replacement name for caffeine!!! You could've just saved your money and taken two Vivarins. As for the rest of the formula... wild yam? Its fame is based on the fact that its saponins which can be chemically converted to progesterone contraceptives!

    I'm speechless.
    RTR.
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    seriously man both those products are bunk.sell them and buy real food with the money
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    Do not waste your time on that 17-HD garbage. Nuff said there! Secondly, you can find better 6-bromo products than Arimatest and are considerably cheaper. Some options for 6-bromo for example would be our 2nd Gear (50mg of 6-bromo per cap) (Applied Nutriceuticals) as it is now being sold by itself. Other options are Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2 (50 mg of 6-bromo per cap and Kick Ass stuff!!!), Anabolic Xtreme Advanced PCT (25 mg of 6-bromo per cap), Neogenix Supremacy or Regenesen, and IForce Reversitol (Note: Also contains ATD).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Really??? This was amazing???

    17-HD Supplement Facts:

    Serving Size: 1 Capsule
    Servings Per Container: 30

    Amount Per Serving:
    17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
    Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
    Smilax Officinalis
    N.O. Oliliacae
    Betaecdysterone 100mg
    Wild yam extract 100mg
    Glabra 100mg
    Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
    Citric acid 50mg

    There is no such substance as 17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone... it's a replacement name for caffeine!!! You could've just saved your money and taken two Vivarins. As for the rest of the formula... wild yam? Its fame is based on the fact that its saponins which can be chemically converted to progesterone contraceptives!

    I'm speechless.
    Just as easily as you can say that i can tell you that creatine is garbage! Protien doesnt work. I had a professor that said you can always make stats back you up some how or another.. And btw its 23.99 on bulknutrition for 17HD 30 caps u take one only b4 you workout it last close to 1.5 to 2 months. Thats 53 cents a day for 45 days! sorry if i think it works for that cheap ill keep taking it nice try tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    Just as easily as you can say that i can tell you that creatine is garbage! Protien doesnt work. I had a professor that said you can always make stats back you up some how or another.. And btw its 23.99 on bulknutrition for 17HD 30 caps u take one only b4 you workout it last close to 1.5 to 2 months. Thats 53 cents a day for 45 days! sorry if i think it works for that cheap ill keep taking it nice try tho

    Creatine and protein don't work??haha good argument man.All he's saying is you can get a much better product for your money.Look at the ingredients in 17-HD its nothing, and has been proven to be nothing.Unless, of course, you throw in some of dat Cell-Tech.Then you would have a solid stack going!LOLZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    Just as easily as you can say that i can tell you that creatine is garbage! Protien doesnt work. I had a professor that said you can always make stats back you up some how or another.. And btw its 23.99 on bulknutrition for 17HD 30 caps u take one only b4 you workout it last close to 1.5 to 2 months. Thats 53 cents a day for 45 days! sorry if i think it works for that cheap ill keep taking it nice try tho
    Nice try tho??? Dude, if you wanna pay $23.99 for 30 caps of 400mg caffeine with some progesterone thrown in for good measure... you knock yourself out. But wait... here's 50 servings of 400mg of caffeine for $5.99. That's 12 cents a day for 45 days... ooh, I can do it to!
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/p...-100-tabs.html

    Really man, a "buzz" doesn't mean it's doing anything for body composition. You can rationalize it all you want, but it's been trashed on every forum I've frequented.
    RTR.
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    Good write up from another forum...
    "I will explain how this product bothers me on an unparalleled scale. It is what is wrong with the industry. Shawn Ray uses it…hmm. This product is deceptive, trying to sound like a prohormone or even a potent steroid. The company has stated they did not decide on the name or try and be deceptive it was what the “scientist” (seriously) named it...so that's what they went with...HAHAHA! Even if they have a "scientist" of some sort, which they probably don't, that guy is not in control of their financial fate in the naming/marketing/advertising of the product.

    17-HD (17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone): To review the choice of name here, by marketing NOT SCIENCE…let’s review.

    1.)17 – As is c17a, the 17th carbon at the alpha position is where anabolic steroids have their potency and toxicity and often is where a methyl group is as attached.
    2.)Halo – Besides being a great X-Box game, it is another group of steroids such as the popular halotestin, also halodrol is quite popular in the prohormone world.
    3.)Methyl – See #1. Also – see buzz word of the year (#2 is ethyl ester)
    4.)Dianadrone – Diana(bol) aka methandrostenolone, comes pretty close to hitting the whole 17-HD name is one fall swoop.
    5.)17-HD, or 17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone, sounds like a chemical compound doesn’t it? Sounds like one heck of a methylated potent oral steroid. Right?

    Guess what? It’s not. Matter of fact it’s just a bunch of herbs. I’d say this is pretty deceptive so far, but lets get into the useless or even counterproductive part.


    Here is the ingredients according to the write-up:

    17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
    Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
    Smilax Officinalis
    N.O. Oliliacae

    Betaecdysterone 100mg
    Wild yam extract 100mg
    Glabra 100mg
    Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
    Citric acid 50mg

    ______________________________ ____________________ ________________
    We'll start with wild yam and go from there.
    Wild Yam is great at regulating estrogen...there's a potent benefit! And I will quote:

    "Wild yam has been used for menstrual cramps or pain, menopausal symptoms, rheumatic conditions, and gallbladder complaints. Wild yam is sometimes suggested as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy. While components of wild yam are chemically manufactured into the hormones progesterone or estrogen, the body is unable to use wild yam in the same way."
    http://www.drugs.com/MTM/wild_yam.html

    ______________________________ ____________________ ______________________________ __
    Ge Gen is aka kudzu and I quote:

    "Chemicals extracted from kudzu include isoflavones known as daidzein, daidzin, genistein, and puerarin. Isoflavones are plant chemicals that have estrogenic and antioxidant effects."
    http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...Ge+Gen,00.html

    ______________________________ ____________________ ______________________________ __

    How 'bout Smilax? Let's go for the trifecta shall we? Smilax officinalis is also known as sarsparilla.
    I'll quote again...

    "In the United States, sarsaparilla is sold primarily as an oral remedy for skin conditions such as psoriasis. It is believed that chemicals in sarsaparilla may attach to endotoxins (the remnants of bacterial cells) that are common in individuals with psoriasis and certain other conditions. By eliminating or reducing the amounts of endotoxins in the body, sarsaparilla may help to relieve the condition.

    Orally, sarsaparilla also has weak diuretic and laxative effects, which may make it useful in promoting the loss of excess water from the body and also in treating mild constipation. It may also promote sweating, which may help to reduce fever. Additionally, sarsaparilla contains chemicals that may act as a mild expectorant – a substance that may loosen bronchial mucus and promote coughing. However, none of these effects has been verified through clinical studies and they may vary greatly depending on the amounts and type of sarsaparilla that is used. "
    http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...inalis,00.html
    ______________________________ ____________________ ______________________________ __
    Hmm...well we've established it raises estrogen, has laxative effects...is there anything else this miracle supplement can do for me you ask?

    Well I am glad you asked...Glabra is cute renaming (as every ingredient is and the product itself) of Glycyrrhiza glabra, aka Licorice. Licorice you say? Yes, THE ultimate bodybuilding supplement. And I will quote:

    "Licorice is also a mild laxative. Large doses of glycyrrhizinic acid and glycyrrhetinic acid in liquorice extract can lead to hypokalemia and serious increases in blood pressure, a syndrome known as apparent mineralocorticoid excess. These side effects stem from the inhibition of the enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (type 2) and subsequent increase in activity of cortisol on the kidney. 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase normally inactivates cortisol in the kidney; thus, licorice's inactivation of this enzyme makes the concentration of cortisol appear to increase. Cortisol acts at the same receptor as the hormone aldosterone in the kidney; thus, the effects mimic aldosterone excess, although aldosterone remains low or normal during licorice overdose. Cortisol does not actually increase either; however, its activity in the kidney effectively increases due to the disabling of this enzyme. To decrease the chances of these serious side effects, deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) preparations are available.

    Licorice affects the body's endocrine system. It can lower the amount of serum testosterone, but whether it affects the amount of free testosterone is unclear. A PubMed search for licorice AND testosterone will provide additional information."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice

    Well, cool, Licorice decrease testosterone, increases blood pressure and may increase catabolic hormones. Oh yeah, and again its a laxative.
    ______________________________ ____________________ ______________________________ __

    So lets tally up the results: we got elevated estrogen, decreased testosterone, increased cortisol, increased blood pressure, and 2 laxatives.

    Lastly, there is one ingredient listed that, in fact, does not exist…so I can’t tell you what it is other than it is an herb. N.O. (sounds like Nitric Oxide – Buzz Word!) Olilicae. Sorry. Given the collective data one WHAT IS IN THERE, I wouldn’t hope for much.

    Well the only thing of benefit I see here is the 50mg of Vitamin C (citric acid), which doesn't even meet the lowly RDA. Sweet formulation. Really.

    Good luck to anyone who uses this. The supplement industry loves you."



    Just sayin...
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    I know what 6-bromo is. It's an AI and I know that it can be synthesized as a steroid in your body. I just thought that the ultra low doses in Arimatest wouldn't effect my body chemistry all that much (as far as the 6-bromo goes) and I have also researched that 17-hd is hit or miss as far as if it works or not and that the ingredients in it have the same chance of creating an ultra estrogen and progesterone as well as they do test and that the power surge in 17-hd (because there is one if you have tried this) is from the high content of caffeine in 17-hd. I have done my research and as you can see I could not come to a decent conclusion as to what to do because all of the reseach published is by "free-lance" bodybuilders not real scientists so it is hard to make an educated decision based on other peoples guesses as to what a products formulation might hold. But again thank you for your help and I appreciate your time. So what should I do with the hd and arimatest? sell them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice3300 View Post
    I know what 6-bromo is. It's an AI and I know that it can be synthesized as a steroid in your body. I just thought that the ultra low doses in Arimatest wouldn't effect my body chemistry all that much (as far as the 6-bromo goes) and I have also researched that 17-hd is hit or miss as far as if it works or not and that the ingredients in it have the same chance of creating an ultra estrogen and progesterone as well as they do test and that the power surge in 17-hd (because there is one if you have tried this) is from the high content of caffeine in 17-hd. I have done my research and as you can see I could not come to a decent conclusion as to what to do because all of the reseach published is by "free-lance" bodybuilders not real scientists so it is hard to make an educated decision based on other peoples guesses as to what a products formulation might hold. But again thank you for your help and I appreciate your time. So what should I do with the hd and arimatest? sell them?
    yes. and don't read any of brownstown89's post.

    i mean.... REALLY????
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    Quote Originally Posted by capnsavem View Post
    yes. and don't read any of brownstown89's post.

    i mean.... REALLY????
    if you could read you would realize i said you can make stats or any information read the way you want it too. Sorry if i think 17 HD works for me, you wont change my opinon on it, you can beat it to death but if i saw my best gains on it then i will say its good. im sure i can google something bout muscle gain and protien having no connection. Would i believe it? no. but i do think 17HD worked for me. $23 is nothing to spend for a bottle and test it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    if you could read you would realize i said you can make stats or any information read the way you want it too. Sorry if i think 17 HD works for me, you wont change my opinon on it, you can beat it to death but if i saw my best gains on it then i will say its good. im sure i can google something bout muscle gain and protien having no connection. Would i believe it? no. but i do think 17HD worked for me. $23 is nothing to spend for a bottle and test it out.
    EVER HEARD OF THE PLACEBO EFFECT! Research it because that's wgat u have and that's all. Doesn't matter what you think.
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    17-HD... really? You are actually arguing about that crap.

    To the guy who thinks 17HD works... Ingredients are ingredients dude. They may effect us slightly differently, but the basic chemistry works the same. You wanted to get bigger, so you took this caffeine pill thinking it was a natural anabolic, you worked out harder, you ate bigger, and you grew. The 17-HD had nothing to do with it other than it flipped a switch in your brain that told you to work harder because you thought you had some extra help... The human body and psyche is an incredible thing.

    Science is science, and 17-HD is overpriced crap. Use it if you want... but don't walk around saying that creatine doesn't work because it's your opinion... or that in your opinion 17HD works as an anabolic. Facts are facts and the fact is, that stuff is bunk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    if you could read you would realize i said you can make stats or any information read the way you want it too. Sorry if i think 17 HD works for me, you wont change my opinon on it, you can beat it to death but if i saw my best gains on it then i will say its good. im sure i can google something bout muscle gain and protien having no connection. Would i believe it? no. but i do think 17HD worked for me. $23 is nothing to spend for a bottle and test it out.


    see GMG760's post. it's spot on... but i'm sure you'll find some way to try and insult him because his thinking is rational and you're a victim of the marketing/propaganda machine that is the supplement industry.

    we're just trying to help man... it's nothing personal.. LOL

    this is the internet afterall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    17-HD... really? You are actually arguing about that crap.

    To the guy who thinks 17HD works... Ingredients are ingredients dude. They may effect us slightly differently, but the basic chemistry works the same. You wanted to get bigger, so you took this caffeine pill thinking it was a natural anabolic, you worked out harder, you ate bigger, and you grew. The 17-HD had nothing to do with it other than it flipped a switch in your brain that told you to work harder because you thought you had some extra help... The human body and psyche is an incredible thing.

    Science is science, and 17-HD is overpriced crap. Use it if you want... but don't walk around saying that creatine doesn't work because it's your opinion... or that in your opinion 17HD works as an anabolic. Facts are facts and the fact is, that stuff is bunk.

    dude i didnt say creatine DOESNT work, like i have been saying you can make stats say anything you want thats all, and you might be right about the getting bigger eating more all that but i feel it worked good so ill use it next time i want too.. Im not convinced by the marketting, It might be a considence sp? that i peaked on my bench deadlift while on 17 hd? might not but ill still say it worked for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice3300 View Post
    I know what 6-bromo is. It's an AI and I know that it can be synthesized as a steroid in your body. I just thought that the ultra low doses in Arimatest wouldn't effect my body chemistry all that much (as far as the 6-bromo goes)
    please note that arimatest is sublingual meaning its supposed to bypass the liver therefore a higher dose isnt needed to compensate for what the liver would destroy in an oral
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    Great point . I am just going to sell it anyway. But a very good point sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    dude i didnt say creatine DOESNT work, like i have been saying you can make stats say anything you want thats all, and you might be right about the getting bigger eating more all that but i feel it worked good so ill use it next time i want too.. Im not convinced by the marketting, It might be a considence sp? that i peaked on my bench deadlift while on 17 hd? might not but ill still say it worked for me.
    Exactly. You can make stats say anything you want. IE: 17-HD works. I just made that up, even though it's false.

    You can't tell me there is an ingredient in that product that made you stronger. You made yourself stronger by thinking that you had an artificial aid. I guarantee when you think you are pushing with 100% of your strength you really have 10-20% more in you, you just haven't tapped that deep into yourself yet. The "idea" of 17-HD working is all that it took for you to tap into that extra 10-20%.

    Go take Mdrol and tell me that 17-HD works. Once you know what a real hormone is and can do for your strength, you'll realize you've been buying a caffeine pill.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    DUDE, not to sound like a **** or anything, but if you think Arimatest is all-natural, then you seriously need to do more research. First of all if you read the complete write-up on their website you would see that it's not and second it even puts a warning on the bottom of the write-up stating if you are a tested athlete you should consult your organization before using because it can cause a positive test.

    What part of that sounds natural? To me I don't consider steroidal AI's natural and as for Arimatest it also has ATD. And even though all three of them don't contain any 17a methyls like PH's and harder steroids, they still hit your hormones hard thus classifying them as hormonal.

    And has for 17-HD, I still don't understand how companies can name their products so decieving; it seriously doesn't make sense. I saw this at the GNC section at my local Rite Aid for $64.99. The sad thing is I don't doubt people will actually pick that up because of the 1) the name 2) the price 3) and that shawn ray poster boys for that product and other VYO-Tech products.

    Frankly, I'm not going to tell you what to take or why you shouldn't but I did want to address the "all natural" statement regarding Arimatest.
  25. New Member
    JONNIBRAVO's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  268 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1
    Rep Power
    59
    Level
    1
    Lv. Percent
    4%

    Cool


    Quote Originally Posted by Juice3300 View Post
    sorry man I wanted to get results from different crowds. I just won my first posing comp this summer as a comp bodybuilder and I think I will go up a weight class next year and I wanted to try an all natural supp like this because I am doing a program called the growth surge project and in the second phase you work out two times per day (with weights) and it is recommended that you take a PH (but I'm staying away from that sh**) to help heal and stay anabolic in this two week phase due to your muscles with be completely trashed by working out so frequently.
    I realize I am a lil late to the party, but Just thought this needed to be commented on. As was said to you by someone else on a prior occasion, you are 18, and don't need to be messing with hormones. Besides, if your doing 2 w/o's a week, just split your leg routine up, and do one leg part a day, in the A.M. and then later that day, do an upper body part. Something like this: Mon. am, quads/pm, chest. Wed. am,calves/pm, BIs and TRIs. Fri. am,hamstrings/pm back and shoulders. Of course this is an example and you can switch up the days, to suit yourself. The idea is that since your legs carry the most of your weight, they are responsible for more GH and Test production that any one muscle group. As such, a routine such as this will increase hormones naturally w/o any specific hormonal supplementation.
  

  
 

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