chest pain on ephedrine?
- 02-22-2004, 11:07 AM
chest pain on ephedrine?
ive recently started a fat loss stack including...
25mg ephedrine hcl
5.4 mg yohimbine
2 syntrax guggul extreme
2 syntrax MM4
4 syntrax beta3
around the 3rd day i started to feel a pretty annoying tightness in the middle of the center of my chest through out the day. my heart rate felt fine and i wasnt experiencing any kind of high blood pressure headaches. i didnt take my dosage today, just to ask a few questions. could it just be that other ingredient, Guaifenesin, in the Vasopro ephedrine that helps to break up flem and sh-t in the lungs (since its purpose is an asthma medicine). i do in fact actually have sports enduced asthma, so it seems appropriate i could be taking ephedrine anyway. anyone experience any of this? thanks.
- 02-22-2004, 11:10 AM
I would discontinue and go get myself checked out.. did you happen to have any pain in your left arm? I just like to be safer than sorrier with heart related pains..
02-22-2004, 11:39 AM
You have everything and the kitchen sink in there. Have you used E/C/Y before and how was your tolerance. Here is a good thread if you have not read it before: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...light=Dante%2A
02-25-2004, 06:59 AM
are you getting any breathing probs as well? maybe a bit of anxiety!!
also, as b5150 said, it does look like a very strong supp. what is it called & how many caps make up a full dose?
if it's more than one then maybe take half a dose & build it up from there.
02-25-2004, 12:52 PM
i think what i finally figured out is that its the guaifenesin in the vasopro ephedrine hcl that is hitting my chest so hard, breaking up the phlemg and what not. ive been spitting up an assload the past few days, and it seems that the purpose of guaifenesin is to break up phlemg in the chest and lungs... sucks that there really isnt any ephedrine hcl being sold without it tho
02-25-2004, 02:17 PM
Up here in "Everything-Is-Banned-Land" (Canada) you can still buy pure HCL. It only comes in 8mg tabs, but hey, just take more.
Cheap cheap too!
02-25-2004, 02:30 PM
That is definitely a kitchen sink stack. IMO you could be right about the guaifenesin, but otherwise there's a little too many variables to tell right away (too many ingredients to be able to accurately assess). What is your history with these type of stacks? Have you done many of these ingredients before, separately or together?
02-25-2004, 06:45 PM
i have never used ephedrine before, and i was mainly going to go stimulant free which is why i had all the syntrax products and the yohimbine... but i decided to go with the eca and use up the rest of the other products i had left... i came accross this paragraph in an article on a med site which makes me happy...
" It is important to follow the guaifenesin protocol. Do not change your dosage of guai or any other medication without talking to your doctor. Keep track of what happens. Start slowly by taking 300 mg of guaifenesin twice a day. Take 300 mg twice a day for one week. If you become distinctly worse, you have found the dosage right for you. If you are especially sensitive to medications, you may want to begin with less. Take it slowly, and give your body a chance to detoxify the material that is being released. When you reach your dose, your symptoms will get worse. The signs and symptoms in reversal are not side effects of guaifenesin. They are from the chemical toxins and wastes being released by the guai and are good signs, although they won’t feel like it at the time. Salicylates in medication and herbal products can block the action of guaifenesin. Blocking effects vary with the individual."
02-25-2004, 06:47 PM
ape.... possibly in the future i will head up to canada as i go to college in upstate New York... about 3-4 hours from Montreal. They sell 8mg ephedrine hcl in supplement shops up there, or gas stations, or whats the deal?
02-25-2004, 07:04 PM
I mean no disrespect when I say this so please take no offense: Are you out of your mind?25mg ephedrine hcl
5.4 mg yohimbine
2 syntrax guggul extreme
2 syntrax MM4
4 syntrax beta3
You have never used ephedrine before, yet you are stacking it with Y and at 25mg/5mg ta boot. Now toss in synephrine @14mg and MM4 x 2 (another 5-10mg synephrine) and beta-3 (norsynephrine) and caffeine...and you are concerned about the guaifenesin? Your dosing like a veteran and you have no idea what you are taking and the potential dangers of adverse interactions.
Come on dude! It's your life...have some respect for it.
02-25-2004, 07:22 PM
I agree. That's way too much. Especially the ephedrine for a first time user. I would have recommended you start at half that dose of ephedrine until you build a tolerance. I also think 300mg of caffeine is too high. I would cut back to a half standard dose of e/c/y to start. If you are looking for something more healthy look into the Anarchy Stack.
02-25-2004, 10:35 PM
i had used 12.5mg ephedrine with a half dose of the caffeine for a week which i barely got much of anything from, so i upped the anti, and mentally and anxiety wise, i felt great, very energetic and focused, etc.. the chest pain was the only problem which i found not to be heart related. i did stop after i felt the pain and researched my face off as well as sampled the other supps i had to see if any of them were the cause. also since that post i have bought no-doz which was the only source of pure caffeine i could find around here which i was using at 200mg when i began to run the ephedrine hcl. the only source i had found prior was super guarana which was 1200mg guarana in a 4:1 ratio, leaving me with 300mg caffeine. i really appreciate all ur replies tho and acknowledge they are in my best interest as well. thanks
02-25-2004, 10:36 PM
most likely i am going to just run the eca or just ec stack at the moment. i really only have about 5 more weeks until my spring break which is basically the end of this period in my diet... after that ill have more time to dial in as summer comes.
02-25-2004, 11:00 PM
you don't need to feel it for it to work.which i barely got much of anything fromwhen you say you found out, are you referring to the pubmed quote that you posted. I don't believe that the expectorant effect of the guaifenesin would cause chest pains. Irratic/irregular HB and palpatations/chest pressure are common sides of combining E/Y.the chest pain was the only problem which i found not to be heart related
I have used high (total daily) dose of all of what you are using. But I did it in 4-5 doses throughout the day. IOW...12.5mg-E/100mg-C/2.5mg-Y x 4-5 with the guggle/mm4/etc eod. It really is not a matter of amount per dose as it is dose per day. Slow and steady is better than hard and heavy. Again, you don't need to feel it for it to work. JMO. Be safe.
02-26-2004, 12:20 AM
It may be that you are very sensitive to the bronchodialatory (sp?) effect of ephedrine, so much so that it's uncomfortable. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just lower the dose.
02-26-2004, 03:08 AM
b5150 how much of the syntrax products were u taking, the 1 serving 3 times or per day, or as u said 4-5 times a day, meaning 4-5 servings a day?... i'm undecided as whether not to take the recommended low dosage, or finish off the bottles with what most people and users recommened to be effective, which is twice the avg dosage, or 2 servings/3 times a day
02-26-2004, 03:17 AM
by the way ive been around through out a few diff boards, never been much of a poster, more of an occasional question asker, but i had just recently joined up to this board and i can definately say the advice, consideration, and helpfulness is far superior to most any other around. sorry to kiss the ass, im just surprised by the responses.
02-26-2004, 10:14 AM
b5150 how much of the syntrax products were u taking, the 1 serving 3 times or per day, or as u said 4-5 times a day, meaning 4-5 servings a day?...what I meant (eod) here was every other dose of e/c/y. I took the full dose of the MM4/Guggle/etc 3 times per day. So I would take it with e/c/y doses 1, 3 and 5. Keep in mind that this was me, and you may be different. I had been doing e/c/y for quite a while before I got to that level of dosing and stacking.with the guggle/mm4/etc eod.
02-26-2004, 01:05 PM
For just starting off with this stuff you are crazy. I have been doing this for a while and I am a bigger person. I only an ECA 25/200/300. 3 times a day. I have been cycling this for 2 on 2 off. Doing Y on my 2 off. seems to be working really well with out any sides so far. If I started to have chest pains I would stop and go to the Docs ASP and get checked out you only have one heart. It just isn't worth it to take a chance.
02-26-2004, 04:49 PM
FTMGuy whats your view on yohimbine... do you think its necessary to be run for extended periods of time in order to get true results, or running it 2 weeks on/off u find it to be beneficial? ive ready a few contradicting comments on it.
02-26-2004, 05:23 PM
I liked running it for 2 weeks. I got good results from it. The hard part is taking enough I was taking 8 pills ed at 2.5mg a pill. I personally think Y is good at getting rid of stuborn fat around the mid section in guys.
02-26-2004, 05:48 PM
By David Tolson
1. What is yohimbine?
Yohimbine is an alkaloid found in the inner bark of a tree that grows in southern Africa, Corynanthe yohimbe. Yohimbe has been used for centuries as an aphrodisiac, and alkaloids derived from this tree have been studied in depth. Yohimbine is now used primarily in veterinary medicine and in the treatment of erectile dysfunction, and it may also be useful in the treatment of obesity.
2. What application does yohimbine have?
Yohimbine has not been researched as thoroughly in the area of fat loss as many other weight loss aids, especially where clinical trials are concerned, but the existing data is promising. A 3-week study in 1991 on 20 obese females on 1000 calorie diets found that 20 mg of yohimbine daily increased weight loss 3 lbs. over placebo (1). Multiple studies have found that yohimbine increases the amount of non-esterfied fatty acids (NEFAs), a product of lipolysis (the breaking down of fat), in the bloodstream in both lean and obese individuals (2, 3), and that this effect persists for at least 14 days, indicating that rapid tolerance does not develop (4). Yohimbine is also an appetite suppressant, and decreases energy intake in both lean and obese mice (5).
3. How does yohimbine work?
Yohimbine works by blocking alpha(2) adrenoreceptors. There are a number of feedback mechanisms that prevent the release of norepinephrine (NE), one of the body's primary lipolytic hormones. When NE is released, such as in periods of stress or after taking a sympathomimetic (such as ephedrine), it stimulates both the alpha and beta adrenoreceptors. Stimulation of the beta adrenoreceptors causes the breakdown of fat while stimulating the alpha(2) adrenoreceptors has the opposite effect, preventing the release of NE and lipolysis. Yohimbine prevents this negative feedback mechanism, thus increasing NE release and lipolysis.
There are a number of reasons why alpha(2) inhibition is specifically useful. First, while the beta-adrenergic system primarily controls lipolysis during periods of intense activity, during rest, which makes up most of our day, the alpha-adrenergic system is in control (6, 7). Also, "stubborn fat" areas – usually the abdominal area in men and the glutofemoral area in women – contain a higher ratio of alpha(2) receptors (7), making yohimbine particularly effective in these areas (whereas other drugs that increase NE may be somewhat counterproductive). Finally, alpha(2) blockade increases blood flow in adipose tissue (7), which prevents fat from being retained in the area (8).
3. What other benefits does yohimbine have?
Aside from being a fat loss agent, yohimbine is well known as a sexual stimulant. Studies indicate that it increases copulatory behavior and reduces sexual exhaustion in male rats (9, 10). A recent review of the literature found that yohimbine, especially in combination with drugs that facilitate the action of nitric oxide, is effective in the treatment of male erectile dysfunction (11), and a study in women found yohimbine combined with L-arginine glutamate to increase sexual arousal in women with sexual arousal disorder (12). Yohimbine also slightly raises serum testosterone levels in men (13).
4. What are the side effects of yohimbine?
Anxiety is the most common side effect seen with yohimbine, especially higher doses, and for this reason it should not be used by individuals prone to panic attacks or with stress-related disorders (14, 15). Other common side effects are increased heart rate and blood pressure, although these do not appear to be a problem at the doses used for weight loss (2, 3). Other side effects associated with elevated levels of NE, such as insomnia, can also be expected. All of these side effects disappear after termination of use (11).
5. What form of yohimbine is best?
Yohimbine is available as an herbal yohimbe extract or pure yohimbine HCl, and it is also found in some topical fat loss solutions. Yohimbe extracts contain a variety of alkaloids, and yohimbine only makes up 10-15% of the alkaloids present (16). The activity of many of these alkaloids is not well known, and some of them may have toxic effects (there are many reports that yohimbe is an MAOI), which makes pure yohimbine HCl both a safer and more consistent alternative. For those wishing to deliver a higher quantity to a specific "trouble area" without the side effects of systemic delivery, topical solutions (such as Lipoderm-Y) are effective (17).
6. How should yohimbine be taken?
The dosage of .2 mg/kg (approximately 1 mg per 10 lbs.) per day is relatively free of side effects and effective for weight loss (2, 3), while .1 mg/kg is more commonly used for sexual stimulant effects. For fat loss, yohimbine is generally taken twice daily, in the morning and afternoon. It is best taken on an empty stomach, as taking it with a meal can reduce its lipolytic effects (3). The half-life of yohimbine is short (1-2 hours), but the half-life of a metabolite with similar activity, 11-hydroxy-yohimbine, is 6-8 hours (18), so it is not necessary to take it every 2 hours. It is best to start with half the dose or less to see how sensitive you are to yohimbine, as inter-individual bioavailability and tolerance can vary greatly.
7. What are some good supplements to take with yohimbine?
As covered above, arginine and other NO enhancers may operate synergistically with yohimbine as a sexual stimulant. It is also probably synergistic with caffeine for fat loss through PDE inhibition.
A possible synergism between yohimbine and ephedrine hasn't been thoroughly explored, and the information that exists is somewhat contradictory. In theory, they should work well together as yohimbine blocks one of the negative feedback mechanisms that would normally make ephedrine less effective. Cell culture studies confirm that yohimbine increases the lipolytic effects of beta(3) agonists (19). However, a study using rats indicated that yohimbine blocked the effects of the same beta(3) agonist, indicating that the two may antagonize each other (19). Additionally, a study on cardiovascular variables found that ephedrine and caffeine together were safe, but the addition of yohimbine may produce undesirable effects (20). So it is still unknown whether the combination of yohimbine and ephedrine produces any additional benefit, and whether it is justified by the potential dangers.
02-26-2004, 07:28 PM
02-28-2004, 06:09 PM
sounds like some angina which is caused my a lack of oxygen to your heart . i would def. discontinue it becasue epherdrine increases the workload of the heart you may be getting some myocardial ischemia. I am not sure of your age but it's better just not to take any of it. there are other things you can use
02-28-2004, 07:56 PM
the thing with it was that it would hurt in diff spots of my total chest area at diff times, it wasnt like the center of my chest and at my heart, i dont know hard to describe, but i did stop it for a week, and when i decided to try it again with the new understanding of guaifenesin, i also included aspirin this time in the stack.... so far i feel fine and have absolutely zero pain, compared to last time when i felt it within the first day or two. so i cant say i can put my finger on the exact problem, all i know is that it was solved.
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