Fat burners

[matthias7]

Just starting this thread. Want to make a list of fat-burners and how they operate. Basically what I am looking at is norephinephrine antagonists using stims and non-stim fat-burners. So I am not sure interested in fat-burning but in the 'drive', 'energy' and 'focus' associated with increased adrenalin.

Interested in
Alpha-burn RPN
and Octopamine by Beta3?

I've got both the above but not sure about them.

* Yohimbine I know it fires all over the place in the dopamine pathway. For me it doesn't produce much 'drive' but really wakes me up.
* Eviserate (RPN) as a fat burned is great but the 'drive' factor for me is low.

Pre-workout drinks have some norephinephrine antagonist ability:
* White flood isn't bad and I'm using that right now. Nothing incredibly potent but its okay.
* Jack3D - got loads of this. Its very, very caffeine which worries me

Caffeine based stuff I want to avoid. Historically I've a crazy intolerance that it took a severe adrenal fatigue cycle to break (much more than your average "Reset AD").

I still haven't really found the "magic" fat-burner but Alpha-burn or beta3 look pretty close. Perhaps a yohimbine, Alpha-burn/beta3, Prime type stack could work.

 

[Irish Cannon]

You're just looking for good fat burners? I don't totally understand the post.

 

[matthias7]

I'm looking for pumping adrenalin. Many fat-burners are based on this and thats why they are interesting.

 

[NFLforNBA]

HIIT-HIGH INTENSITY INTERVAL TRAINING

 

[Irish Cannon]

Smash Fully Loaded, Ragnarok, Focus XT, RPM

 

[matthias7]

Excellent thanks. Okay Focus XT is on the shopping list.

Anadrox Pump & Burn and SesaThin looking interesting.

 

[matthias7]

HIIT-HIGH INTENSITY INTERVAL TRAINING

Could link a program? Looks a good idea.

 

[Irish Cannon]

If you're interested in a sesamin oil product, check out Axis Labs Hemodraulix. Mix that with some Anadraulic State or other pre-workout product of your choice (AS, Focus XT, Jacked, Smash FL, White Flood are all good choices) and you've got a nice stack. I'm on the Hemo/SFL right now.

 

[matthias7]

Right the solution starts to look like:
1. A pre-work out NO supp - Hemodraulix looks interesting. It as good as anything I've come across.
2. High intensity training, i.e. using the pre-work out NO stuff to deliver the high intensity stuff.
3. A fat-burner - as yet to be decided but probably a stack of them and possibly in rotation.

This is starting to look impressive.

I never really managed to understand NO stuff - I've got heaps of the stuff BUT for high intensity work out then maybe they'll start to kick in.

To be honest Andraulic State looks the business, but it got creatine in it and that really spooks my physician. In fact the stuff looks really great.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I thought that it was common knowledge. :dunno:

 

[matthias7]

It might be

... BUT if you're always focused on cutting the cortisol response but small meals, adaptogens, avoiding stims and extreme workouts then .... this is new. Basically its everything I've been told not to do.

 

[matthias7]

Okay ... few more ideas.
1. Gerranium
2. Fat burner alpha-burn, beta3, Sesathin, yohimbine HCL, Jack3D
3. NO supps pre-work out, Hemodraulix looks interesting
4. High intensity work out.
5. A bit of a cheat (unspecificed)
6. Possibly DHEA, e.g. Dermacrine

I've also got at home some USPlabs fat burners.
Shopping list: FocusXT, Sesathin, Hemodraulix (or perhaps run down my NO supps), try another fat-burner.

Right that lot will knock the adrenalin spots off a cheetah. I'll need a severe adrenal fatigue cycle to recover but caffeine content here is low.

 

[matthias7]

Okay its a 2 part plan
1. What I'm gonna do here is base it around gerranium (and a bit of a cheat) and rotate a few fat-burners to see what fits.
2. Use the NO supps to boost high intensity work out

Pull out on tyrosine, liquorice, adaptogens, chromium, Vit C, mega-Bs and the rest of the adrenal fatigue supps after 8 weeks.

The question I've got is the role of DHEA or cortisol blocking. The other way in high is a PH which generates so much cortisol that sleeping never happens.

Thats a good cycle. Happy with it.

 

[Irish Cannon]

E-911/Hemodraulix/Focus XT. Now that sounds hot. - I guess you could buy extra sesamin for your days off of Hemo.

 

[matthias7]

E-911 - need to check it I forget whats in it; I know gerranium is on of the ingredients. Want to avoid caffeine - in any case its pointless 'cause I'm so tolerent. I reviewed E-911 somewhere on this board. Nutra don't stock it though.
I've got Gerranium supps sitting around.

The big supps using synthetic B1 (sulbutamine) I cycle separately, so I can use gerranium without crossing supps between different cycles.

Other fat-burners
Sida Cordifolia, green tea (deffinately included I love the stuff), ALCAR.

Basically I think this is more or less there now. It wasn't as tough as I thought.

Could throw in some bitter orange. Could get all that through Astro-Phex but I never thought this stuff was any good.

 

[matthias7]

E-911
Okay I've got it Synephrine, gerranium and caffeine, perhaps there is something else in it. Its sublingual - not easy to buy.

Synephrine and gerranium as a long term base will work. Caffeine - would need to be low. As a basis for upping the adrenalin response it would be solid ... caffeine being a problem though.

 

[matthias7]

Focus XT
As an additional base this would work too. Basically its a heap of cholinergenic nootropics.
Hemodraulix
Yeah possible buy. I've so much NO stuff.

So yeah Focus XT, gerranium/E911, another fat-burner to antagonize a different set of norephinephrine receptors (which could be rotated), NO/Hemo + high intensity training. Oh and I'll use green tea - cause I love it so much.

ALCAR is in Focus XT along with a heap of goodies.

Need to check blood pressure on that lot.

A very worth while thread indeed.

 

[matthias7]

Wait a sec. there is a problem:
1. Focus XT ... 200mg caffeine
2. E-911 ... caffeine?
3. Green tea .. a fair whack of caffeine.

Hmm.. I can't really be hitting 300mg caffeine a day. I'll get adrenal fatigue when I stop.

What I'd have to do is stack E911 with gerranium to minimize the caffeine uptake.

Geee... I loath caffeine. Thats why I was interested in Alpha-burn and Beta3.

 

[Steveoph]

Green tea doesn't have a fair whack of caffeine; in the extract it's usually 1-2%, so if you use 500mg, you're getting 5-10mg.

AlphaBurn + PLCAR + ALCAR + GTE works. Ephedra and caffeine cycle well into this. Eviscerate is also good for a topical approach. Systemic cortisol reduction via Lean Xtreme or the old Dermatherm are also possible approaches. Also the HEAT stack by Avant Labs is being relaunched "soon". Sesamin is also another path via PPAR. And there's plenty of other cheats like Clenbuterol, GH peptides, etc.

Could you list the ingredients for Beta3?

 

[matthias7]

Beta3 is octopamine.

Taken straight from the Wiki:
Octopamine is a biogenic amine that is closely related to noradrenaline, and has noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects.[1] Biosynthesis of the D(-) enantiomer is by β-hydroxylation of tyramine by the enzyme dopamine β-hydroxylase.

Tyramine is feeding into the dopamine pathway (found in cheese that sort of thing) and this looks like a modified version of tyramine.

Nutra don't stock it but it looks VERY interesting.

So very loosely I think we can see octoamine a form of tyramine. I'd need to quit Rhodolia if taking this stuff.

BTW what is GTE

 

[matthias7]

And there's plenty of other cheats like Clenbuterol, GH peptides, etc.

Could you list the ingredients for Beta3?

Ah.... you gave an opinion about what I considered cheats - prescription stuff. Of course I never use prescription medication - except if it prescribed of course. GH peptides interesting...

 

[matthias7]

BTW where do you buy E911?

Oh how much caffeine is their in 1 tab?

CoreZap is a little similar but is gerranium, tyrosine and synthetic B1, which creates stack overlap.

 

[Steveoph]

Sorry GTE = Green Tea Extract, GSE = Grape Seed Extract. I think I'm OK for the rest

E-911 will be coming soon to NutraPlanet I believe. It is already available direct form LG.

As for the cheats, depends where you live, however the GH peptides are legal in Canada. Search DatBTrue + peptides and you should find lots of good info.

 

[ax1]

speed v2 by lg is caffeine free

 

[matthias7]

GH peptides ... got it.

Theobromine is in Speed v2 - thats caffeine by any other name. Misleading marketing IMO - chemically they are correct ... just. Anyway it looks interesting for sure.

 

[matthias7]

Nutrition HQ Tri-Matrix looks interesting ... except 200mg+ caffeine per cap blows my entire daily intake.
Whats... 3,7-Dihydro-3,7-Dimethyl-1H-Purine-2,6-Dione
oh no its theobromine ... caffeine by another name

Gee that stuff really packs the caffeine. Bad idea forget it.

 

[brock17cf]

I dont think anyone has metioned beta alanine- which isnt a fat burner, but could help with sustained high intesity work, meaning overall increased energy expenditure.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Theobromine is similar to caffeine, but by no means the same exact thing.

 

[andrew732]

Dude, your a bit off base by sayintg that Jack3d has loads of caffeine, it only contains apporx. 60mg of caffeine per sccop, its prolly the schrindiz mixed with geranium that has you wired.

 

[matthias7]

Theobromine is similar to caffeine, but by no means the same exact thing.

Sure it isn't. It is very similar and the real question is if it is antagonising the same receptors as caffeine. If not then it fine, if it is - its effectively the same thing.

Dude, your a bit off base by sayintg that Jack3d has loads of caffeine, it only contains apporx. 60mg of caffeine per sccop, its prolly the schrindiz mixed with geranium that has you wired.

Okay thanks - yeah thats low. I can stack it then.

I dont think anyone has metioned beta alanine- which isnt a fat burner, but could help with sustained high intesity work, meaning overall increased energy expenditure.

Thanks. I've got a bottle. I think its loaded into Haudraulix as well.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

Dude, your a bit off base by sayintg that Jack3d has loads of caffeine, it only contains apporx. 60mg of caffeine per sccop, its prolly the schrindiz mixed with geranium that has you wired.

This Jacked supp is crazy excellent! 3 scoops turns my into a physco! For real, the other day for my warm up I played air guitar with Foo Fighters for like 15 mins. LOL. I was so amped, and will stick with 2 scoops from now on. BTW, there's a product I've always wanted to try by Ergopharm, I think that's the name, the chemist behind it all is Patrick Arnold. It's called Amped. I hear raves about this supp. Focus, concentration, energy & great fat burning effects? Or is it affects? Ha, I always screw that up. :18:

 

[matthias7]

Basically its loads of caffeine. The only interesting thing is Fursultiamine

Amp2
Caffeine Anhydrous, Zingerone, Raspberry Ketone, Fursultiamine, Dimethylpentylamine (Constituent Of Geranium Oil), Green Coffee Bean Extract 50%, Evodiamine, And Kaempferol 50%

 

[matthias7]

Basically what I'll be doing here is using antagonists ...
Adrenalin source 1.
E911/gerranium, Jack3D, Alpha-burn/Beta3 and green tea.
Then I'll be using gym
Adrenalin source 2.
NO (Haudraulix) supps and cardio workouts (I actually do these I just didn't know it was called 'high intensity')
Then I'll be ramping my mental speed.
Support matrix
Focus XT
Then finally locking the system down
Flooding adrenalin
This is the cheat there is one compound out there (just one) min. sides that blocks the desruction of noradrenalin

So by flooding the system with adrenalin and blocking its destruction the effect should massive.

I can then detox. using an adrenal fatigue routine.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

Basically what I'll be doing here is using antagonists ...
Adrenalin source 1.
E911/gerranium, Jack3D, Alpha-burn/Beta3 and green tea.
Then I'll be using gym
Adrenalin source 2.
NO (Haudraulix) supps and cardio workouts (I actually do these I just didn't know it was called 'high intensity')
Then I'll be ramping my mental speed.
Support matrix
Focus XT
Then finally locking the system down
Flooding adrenalin
This is the cheat there is one compound out there (just one) min. sides that blocks the desruction of noradrenalin

So by flooding the system with adrenalin and blocking its destruction the effect should massive.

I can then detox. using an adrenal fatigue routine.

Interesting about the Amped. I don't understand all this though. This is all for a daily WO? And what's your adrenal fatigue routine, supps. of couse, correct?

 

[matthias7]

Basically you are generating stuff at one end of the production line and stopping it from being destroyed at the other end. So the net effect is over-production.

When you are forcing your adrenals into overtime fatgue can set in long term. It is like doing a cycle and kicking starting natural test. Adrenal fatigue programs are the equivalent of PCT in this context. Adrenal fatigue programs are as complex as PCT - simple if you know how otherwise they seem complicated. A very simple adrenal fatigue program is supplementing with Reset AD.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

Basically you are generating stuff at one end of the production line and stopping it from being destroyed at the other end. So the net effect is over-production.

When you are forcing your adrenals into overtime fatgue can set in long term. It is like doing a cycle and kicking starting natural test. Adrenal fatigue programs are the equivalent of PCT in this context. Adrenal fatigue programs are as complex as PCT - simple if you know how otherwise they seem complicated. A very simple adrenal fatigue program is supplementing with Reset AD.

Cool! Thanks for explaining it. Ok, so of course it would be best if you got off the stim(s) first, then get on something like Reset AD. Can you still be on the stims and take the Reset and get the benefits or no? It would be just a waste, not giving your system a rest from it all?

 

[matthias7]

Good question - I think its counter-productive. A bit like doing a cycle and PCT at the same time.

You need to give your system a rest 'cause you've got to recover your natural adrenalin production.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

Good question - I think its counter-productive. A bit like doing a cycle and PCT at the same time.

You need to give your system a rest 'cause you've got to recover your natural adrenalin production.

Right, I would have to agree. Tks.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Cool! Thanks for explaining it. Ok, so of course it would be best if you got off the stim(s) first, then get on something like Reset AD. Can you still be on the stims and take the Reset and get the benefits or no? It would be just a waste, not giving your system a rest from it all?

I believe it works well if you only take the stims 3-4x/wk. Like lets say you took the stims @ 2 doses per day, 4x/wk, and then take the Reset AD on the off days.

I actually ran a log of Reset AD and addressed all of this. It was great stuff! I need to get some more.

 

[matthias7]

This is an interesting idea. Its a bit like pulsing.

Basically this stim setup is a bit like wringing out a sponge (here sponge=adrenals) - once the sponge is dry it'll stay dry unless you are going to keep 'wringing'. The adrenal fatigue setup is to gently restore the water content.

5 days on and 2 days off isn't a bad idea because it'll help the recovery.

Yeah that is a good idea... 5 days of stims and 2 days of adrenal recovery.

Reset is based around liquorice - Rhodolia works better for me. You need a very careful dietry intake on adrenal recovery.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

I believe it works well if you only take the stims 3-4x/wk. Like lets say you took the stims @ 2 doses per day, 4x/wk, and then take the Reset AD on the off days.

I actually ran a log of Reset AD and addressed all of this. It was great stuff! I need to get some more.

Will you PM the link to me, I'd like to read it. Tks! I've been drinking 2-3 cups of coffee a day + stims. So i def need to take a break and get on some Reset AD.

 

[REEVESDIESEL]

This is an interesting idea. Its a bit like pulsing.

Basically this stim setup is a bit like wringing out a sponge (here sponge=adrenals) - once the sponge is dry it'll stay dry unless you are going to keep 'wringing'. The adrenal fatigue setup is to gently restore the water content.

5 days on and 2 days off isn't a bad idea because it'll help the recovery.

I might try this, cause I don't WO on weekends. Maybe a little boxing or jump-roping, but that's it. So something like this sounds good to me.