Supps for the rest of your life?
- 07-15-2009, 10:59 AM
Supps for the rest of your life?
I have a pretty good set of supplemnents that I've been using for a while, but soon I'd like to stop and only use what I need to maintain muscle mass, such as the occasional proten shake and vitamins.
So if you could limit your supplements to a bare minimum for the rest of your life, what would you take?
- 07-15-2009, 11:05 AM
Maybe a good natural safe test booster, will help more and more as a man gets older...maybe a proven natural growth hormone booster such as Powerfull....other than that cycling on and off creatine, protein shakes, a multi and fish oil.....I cant think of much more.
Im getting a little older myself and Im starting to try to cut back on my supplement usage as well....I mean you can only run so many hormone cyclesbefore you truly screw yourself up for good( at least thats my opinion)
Try Usp Labs Powerfull/stacked with their Prime product.....I bet you feel and look great!
- 07-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Cre02 (creatine and cordyceps have great health effects when aging)
07-15-2009, 12:00 PM
A good, absorbable multi, fish oils, protein or maby just a high protein liver tab(both for if you whant more protein). Creatine can be good to.
07-15-2009, 12:01 PM
Hormonal supps are definatley not the bare essentials, but if you must, then go with basic aphrodisiac herbs and stuff. As you age, theirs no point making your liver digest those "weird" compounds.
07-15-2009, 12:07 PM
he said as hes getting older what would be good supps, or staples to use that would be safe, since hes older I said prime and powerfull, I dont think my recommendations where that far off, if I cant say those all there really is Is protein and Creaine, any other supplement wont do anything compared to what I listed.
Also by the way prime and powerfull are somewhat herbal type natural supplements, not that weird at all.
07-15-2009, 12:29 PM
Whey, MVI, Fishoil, Creatine
Serious Nutrition Solutions | Online Representative
Growth Factor XT-GROW! Need Cycle Support? Check out Liver XT.
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07-15-2009, 12:30 PM
bulk bcaa + some sort of flavouring.
IGf-2 cycled 8 weeks on 4 weeks off.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
07-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Would you guys take creatine continuously or cycle? Would it be to retain muscle or to try and keep building?
07-15-2009, 01:07 PM
07-15-2009, 01:30 PM
My Doctor recently told me hes seeing more and more problems with young guys and creatine. Kidney problems and what not. I dont think its as safe as were all made to believe....for some people but if you dont know your overall health you could hurt yourself.
I think its foolish to recommend someone to never cycle off creatine.
sorry not foolish ignorant and stupid.
07-15-2009, 01:37 PM
07-15-2009, 04:11 PM
My absolute, must-have staples
- Reverse by IBE
- Animal Pak by Universal Nutrition
- GUT Health by RPN
- ZMK by MST
- Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations
- Omega-3/Fish Oil
IBE/PHF Boladrol - The Most Potent PH in the World - Available Now!
07-15-2009, 04:12 PM
God you Yanks have access to every supplement in the world.
07-15-2009, 04:24 PM
it really depends on your goals
Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
07-15-2009, 04:30 PM
“We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
07-15-2009, 04:39 PM
"Its not as safe as the supplement companies tell you"
AND here i am thinking....fck I just spnt 80$ on a jug of Green Mag.....Im gonna lay off for a month then go get checked again....until then the New jug of Green Mag awaits.
07-15-2009, 04:40 PM
sorry was looking at a cheque in my online banking and somehow wrote that in there.
07-15-2009, 04:51 PM
07-15-2009, 05:21 PM
how old are you my friend if you dont mind me asking? I know only one thing about getting old and its that Testosterone levels decline.....and low testosterone is linked to a myrad of different diseases, bone disorders, energy loss etc etc
So I stick by my "Natural testosterone support product"
07-15-2009, 06:34 PM
pretty much what everyone else has said.
07-15-2009, 07:45 PM
Ak great list! I think stoked has tons of health benefits as well
07-15-2009, 07:46 PM
Ak great list! I think stoked has tons of health benefits as well for longf term use especially in older ! Icariin has been used for a long while in some studies but not specified exactly how long. Gotta check on that. But icariin has great benifits as well
07-15-2009, 11:14 PM
07-15-2009, 11:40 PM
07-16-2009, 12:04 AM
i'd drop creatine as i age, give my kidneys a break...say what u want but consistently above max. blood creatinine values over the course of several decades is not a gamble i'm willing to take.
07-16-2009, 12:05 AM
07-16-2009, 12:43 AM
I will be using Gut Health, Cissus 5% and ALCAR for sure as staples the rest of my life.
Other things I will be cycling on and off the rest of my life like Phosphatadyl Serine, a good Tribulous extract, and other adaptogens like Rhodiola, Ginseng, Ginkgo, Bacopa, Mucuna ect.
07-16-2009, 02:04 AM
07-16-2009, 03:54 AM
You call over 200 studies, some over 18 years long, 'brolore'? :snort:
Using Creatine For More Than Muscles
by Anthony L. Almada
A creatine researcher highlights promising medical applications
Headlines in late 1997 blamed creatine for the deaths of three college wrestlers. Yet, after the dust settled, no evidence linked the supplement to the deaths. Lost in the fray were data supporting creatine's safety and efficacy in improving human performance and body composition. Also overlooked were studies examining the amino acid for various metabolic disorders and diseases.
Creatine is poised to evolve into much more than muscle magic. A variety of published and unpublished research shows creatine may decrease tumor growth, increase body mass, decrease blood glucose, reduce triglycerides and cholesterol, extend exercise endurance in congestive heart failure patients, and even alter metabolism in people with neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's and Lou Gehrig's diseases.
The history of creatine, a substance that provides energy to muscles, has been documented during nearly 80 years of clinical research. It began in 1926 when two researchers tested it on themselves and found that it changed body weight and urinary markers of protein metabolism.1
In 1981, an article in the New England Journal Of Medicine described the effect 1.5 g of creatine daily had on patients with gyrate atrophy of the choroid and retina—a rare, genetically transmitted visual disorder that results in blindness. Patients with gyrate atrophy also have reduced creatine metabolism.2 After a year of daily supplementation, researchers noted no significant progression of the disease and also found an average 10 percent increase in body weight, increased muscle-fiber diameter, and increased strength and physical performance in a few of the subjects. Creatine the muscle supplement was born.
Lead investigator Ilkka Sipila, M.D., continues to follow these patients who take 1.5-3 g/day creatine and has found no adverse effects after 18 years. In fact, muscle atrophy and weakness remain abated with constant creatine use.3
Then, in 1992, a new application for cellular bioenergetics emerged. In short, cell bioenergetics are the events that enable cells to gain, retain and use energy. Because skeletal muscle is the body's predominant creatine reservoir, researcher began investigating if oral doses of creatine could increase muscular levels of creatine. Roger Harris, Ph.D., and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, found muscle levels of creatine increased following supplementation.4 This discovery spawned more than 100 creatine studies in the following six years for a variety of clinical applications.
Tumor Reduction and Weight Gain
The pivotal enzyme in creatine metabolism is creatine kinase, which directs the energy transfer between adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and phosphocreatine (PCr), an energy-liberating compound found in muscles. PCr is produced when creatine is linked with a certain form of phosphorus, a mineral found in food. Creatine kinase works like the fulcrum of a seesaw, fostering the formation of ATP or PCr, depending on metabolic demands. When energy demands are high, ATP is formed at the expense of PCr; when energy demands decline, PCr is reformed at the expense of ATP. This, at a cellular level, is how muscles store and harness energy. Creatine supplementation does not increase ATP but does increase PCr and creatine stores, a bioenergetically favorable alteration.
Some studies show tumors can be identified by their much higher creatine kinase activity.5 Although this suggests creatine kinase directly influences tumor formation and progression, no cause and effect relationship has been described. Indeed, creatine and its chemical cousin, cyclocreatine, both of which can increase creatine kinase activity, decrease the growth rate of several animal and human tumors implanted in animals.6,7 Recent research shows tumor concentrations of creatine and cyclocreatine correlate with tumor inhibition in immune-deficient mice implanted with human colon-cancer cells.7 These data suggest that increasing creatine levels within tumors inhibits them. However, no human studies have been conducted.
Frequent companions of cancerous tumors and immunodeficiency diseases are muscle wasting and general weight loss. HIV/AIDS is probably the most common disease characterized by wasting. The severe and often unremitting weight reductions are not unlike those noted in starvation. One popular strategy to retard this is to increase body mass before the patient advances to a wasting state. With this in mind, I designed a study with Allan Hollister, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver to assess the impact of creatine supplementation on body composition in the pre-wasting, HIV-infected state. We conducted a double-blind, exploratory study on 30 HIV-positive males without wasting symptoms. For eight-weeks, participants were given either 10 or 15 g creatine/day. The men in both groups significantly increased their lean-body mass and modestly increased fat mass; the increase in lean mass lasted at least four weeks after supplementation ended. As a side benefit, both groups also increased their strength.8,9
Carbohydrate and Lipid Modulator
If we examine the chemistry of the creatine molecule (see above) we find one portion harbors a nitrogen-rich component called a guanidine group. Metformin, a recently introduced prescription drug for diabetes, contains two guanidine groups and thus is called a biguanide. One of its principal actions is improving tissue sensitivity to insulin, thereby facilitating the disposal of glucose into tissues.
From a chemist's perspective, it is not improbable to suggest creatine would modify glucose disposal since it also contains guanidine. Indeed, preliminary data from animal studies published in 1928 indicate high doses of creatine cause low blood sugar.10 Recent studies performed in fasting insulin-dependent (Type I) diabetics found a single 3-g dose of creatine produces significant reductions in blood glucose without changing blood insulin.11,12 Recent studies presented at the 1999 American Diabetes Association annual meeting describe a similar effect in noninsulin dependent (Type II) diabetics. Researchers from the University of Zagreb in Croatia found one 3-g dose of creatine reduced blood glucose in such cases. They also found the effects of creatine equaled those produced by a drug that increases insulin output, but the effects were greatest when the drug and creatine were taken together.13
Occasionally in clinical research you look for one thing but find another. In a study conducted with Conrad Earnest, Ph.D., and colleagues at Texas Women's University, in Denton, and the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, Dallas, we researched the effects of creatine on body composition and strength (see sidebar below). In the process we saw a considerable reduction in blood cholesterol concentrations in a few subjects.14 Eight subjects were asked to maintain their usual diet and training regimen throughout the 28-day study. Although analysis of three-day diet diaries revealed the creatine group ate fewer total calories and had lower carbohydrate and fat intakes, these differences were not statistically significant.
In light of the unexpected results from this study, we undertook a systematic double-blind, placebo-controlled investigation of 34 mildly hyperlipidemic (blood fasting total cholesterol levels between 220 and 250 mg/dL) patients at the Cooper Clinic in Dallas. We found 10*20 g creatine/day for eight weeks reduced triglycerides by 22 to 23 percent and total cholesterol by 5 to 6 percent in both men and women aged 32 to 70.15 There was no effect on high-density lipoprotein (HDL) or low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol. Surprisingly, we also found these effects persisted at least four weeks after discontinuing creatine supplementation. The men in the study tended to have greater blood lipid-lowering effects and reductions in fasting blood glucose levels than the women. Unfortunately, we did not measure fasting insulin concentrations, which would have provided more data to evaluate whether creatine decreases insulin resistance or improves insulin sensitivity.
In a recent study conducted in collaboration with Richard Kreider, Ph.D., and colleagues at the University of Memphis, Tenn., we duplicated the hypolipidemic effects in a group of university football players during off-season training.16 However, another study by Jeff Volek, Ph.D., and colleagues at Penn State University, University Park, did not corroborate the findings after three months of creatine supplementation in young male weight lifters (see sidebar).17
Because elevated triglycerides are a risk factor for cardiovascular disease, especially coronary heart disease, creatine's triglyceride-lowering effect is significant.18,19 The Stockholm Ischemic Heart Disease Prevention Study conducted on 555 people in the 1980s showed that patients whose triglyceride levels dropped 30 percent halved their risk of dying from a secondary coronary heart disease event. This was related to reductions of triglycerides, not total cholesterol.20 No pharmaceuticals have hypolipidemic effects limited to the triglyceride fraction. Certainly a larger trial of creatine's triglyceride-lowering effects must be completed to better understand this important potential application.
Flexing the Heart Muscle
Congestive heart failure (CHF) patients have greatly compromised exercise tolerance. It seems logical that defects in cardiac metabolism are the cause, but this may not be the case. Since the heart is a collection of smooth and skeletal muscles, it is likely that impaired use of PCr in skeletal muscle also contributes to reduced endurance.21 In support of this theory, creatine supplementation has been shown to extend exercise endurance in CHF patients22—probably a result of creatine's ability to prolong cellular energy production in skeletal muscle under periods of metabolic demand, rather than a direct effect on cardiac function. In addition, studies show that muscle creatine and PCr concentrations increase following supplementation in CHF patients, suggesting improved skeletal muscle performance.
Creatine and Clinical Neurology
Most creatine is stored in skeletal muscle cells, but the brain and nerves also store it. Investigations by Rima Kaddurah-Daouk, Ph.D., of Avicena Group, Cambridge, Mass., and Flint Beal, Ph.D., of Harvard Medical School, Cambridge, and Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, have uncovered some novel applications for creatine in several neurodegenerative diseases. Recent studies in an animal model of Lou Gehrig's disease show creatine is equal or superior to riluzole, the current drug of choice, in extending survival time.23
A common element in Alzheimer's, Huntington's, Lou Gehrig's and Parkinson's diseases may be impaired energy production in the brain that ultimately leads to increased cell damage.24 For example, the genetic mutation present in Huntington's disease may impair nerve cell energy production. To test this theory, rats with a chemically induced condition mimicking the lesions found in Huntington's disease were given an oral dose of creatine and cyclocreatine totaling 0.25 to 3 percent of their diet, by weight, for two to three weeks. Following supplementation they showed significant neuroprotection (decreased lesion volume and preservation of PCr and ATP) and reduced oxidative stress.25 Kaddurah-Daouk and Beal have begun intervention trials with Lou Gehrig's disease patients and other studies with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's patients.
Duchenne's muscular dystrophy (DMD), a gender-specific genetic neuromuscular disease affecting only young boys, may be characterized by elevated intracellular calcium concentrations. A recent report from Swiss scientists suggests creatine supplementation may enable affected muscle cells to regulate calcium concentration within the cell, increase phosphocreatine concentrations, and increase the survivability of DMD mouse muscle cells.26 A preliminary investigation to assess creatine's effect in DMD boys is being planned. Creatine supplementation for children appears safe based on studies of infants with an enzymatic defect in creatine synthesis who took 400 to 500 mg/kg/day—almost double the adult loading dose—for more than two years.27,28
Creatine's potential usefulness has been building through nearly eight decades of research. After entering the laboratory as a "steroid substitute" with questionable efficacy and safety, creatine is now moving into a position of prominence in clinical medicine. Given the role of creatine and phosphocreatine in cellular metabolism, it is easy to imagine other metabolic avenues that may be influenced by creatine. The next century will undoubtedly reveal more about creatine's potential in both health maintenance and disease treatment.
07-16-2009, 08:04 AM
07-16-2009, 12:05 PM
07-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Its a great supplement, relatively safe for all users, all I was saying is that my doctor told me that for the most part its safe.....just not as safe as were all to believed, not safe enough to use every day for the rest of your life and not something to be abused or taken lightly.
I am 27 healthy and have always exercised...ive also used ALOT of different creatine....my last blood work showed signifigant strain on my kidneys and real high creatinine levele, they were 132 when normal is 55-115
Take it for what its worth as it doesnt mean the same for everyone, just use caution and use your brain cause im telling you creatine if abused or used improperly can hurt you.
Again for 95%+ its safe and effective, but for the guy who doesnt know of a preexisting condition it can be very bad.
by the way its my favourite supplement by far and also dubbed "The on that works"
07-16-2009, 01:15 PM
green food/whole food vitamins
resveratrol/ecdy from rhamponticum carthamoides(or the root itself)
07-16-2009, 03:05 PM
u know i got 2 Boxes of all the pills and powders i take..but decided not to bring all that with me to india. so for 9 weeks ive been only using Whey Protein Concentrate, Dessicated Liver (Protein Tabs), and ADAM multivitamin....im having great workouts and some of the best natural gains of my life here. had people come out here expecting me to be skinny as hell but said I looked like I bulked up after 3 weeks of being here.
So I'm saying Whey Protien a Multi and Fishoil only supps I feel should be staples......I say dont worry about boosting Test unless it becomes an issue.....
This india trip has made me rethink my whole use of supplements (excluding protien and multi). From now on I'm only using other supps during PCT....of real cycles, I experimented once with the OTC stuff....kinda boring when compared to the juice
07-16-2009, 04:12 PM
07-16-2009, 04:15 PM
good point, again im simply saying use caution cause the stuff could potentially hurt you if misused or if you have a preexisting condition.
07-16-2009, 04:33 PM
This is going to piss a few people off I know but what i have found to be the bare essential supplements is something that everyone here has heard a million times and knows like gospel....but diet.
IMHO supplements have always taken me to the next level so when you ask for me to give you the "BARE MINIMUM" i will say diet.
But now to add onto the BARE MINIMUM and add the fewest supplements possible to a already high protein well balanced diet consisting of around a gallon of water a day
2-4 grams of creatine mono a day
Then the next level above:
Prime/Powerful cycled ever 10-12 weeks
A solid creatine supp to replace mono (green mag, kre-alklyn, Cre02, etc
Then if you wanna bump that up even higher to the next level when your in your 40's
A solid natty test booster/AI
And it is something to consider but to clean out ur gut once or twice a year.
07-16-2009, 09:32 PM
07-16-2009, 11:43 PM
these are what i take, i like to cycle a few of them
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