PH and anxiety

[airram479]

I would like to try,but everywhere i look it says "Do not take this product if"...
and i am currently on a script for anxiety and mild depression. Has anyone else just gone ahead anyways and taken a PH with any of the ailments that are listed on most of these bottles???

I can see it aggravating the anxiety because of elevated T-levels,but as long as you are aware of it...?? What's the big deal? I mean it's not like i am going to:AR15firing:somebody

 

[caliphotog]

I would like to try,but everywhere i look it says "Do not take this product if"...
and i am currently on a script for anxiety and mild depression. Has anyone else just gone ahead anyways and taken a PH with any of the ailments that are listed on most of these bottles???

I can see it aggravating the anxiety because of elevated T-levels,but as long as you are aware of it...?? What's the big deal? I mean it's not like i am going to:AR15firing:somebody

Problem is that you can't really control your emotions when hormones are out of whack. If you already suffer from anxiety and are blowing up on people and being all emo without the use of hormone altering drugs, I would stay away.

 

[bigswole30]

All prohormones can increase anxiety and ESPECIALLY 1,4add and Estra 4,9. With that being said I have used PH's and also suffer from anxiety, but this is in no way medical advice or saying you should go ahead and take them.

That is your own choice. Be smart about it.

 

[StuartGould]

I would like to try,but everywhere i look it says "Do not take this product if"...
and i am currently on a script for anxiety and mild depression. Has anyone else just gone ahead anyways and taken a PH with any of the ailments that are listed on most of these bottles???

I can see it aggravating the anxiety because of elevated T-levels,but as long as you are aware of it...?? What's the big deal? I mean it's not like i am going to:AR15firing:somebody

Would u be prepared to tell us what the prescription drug is. I am assuming it is an ssri and not a maoi. Latter potentially v bad interactions with other drugs.

Assuming the underlying problem is classical anxiety without any tendency to agressoon, I know of no medical info against it.

But I am a surgeon and not a psych!

 

[monsterbox]

dont **** with them unless you are extremely prepared for anxiety.

I ran 2 cycles of havoc and was fine...never had anxiety in my life.

I ran 1 cycle of PP/SD and within 2 weeks I lost myself completely. I ended up stopping the cycle, getting the flu from not sleeping/butterflys constantly. I had to take xanax and trazadone to sleep. Terrible experience.


BTW, anxiety is NOT from elevated test levels, its from depleted test levels and brain interference of the compound. Superdrol gave me intense waves of nervousness...i felt like someone was going to gun me down with ak47's randomly.

 

[airram479]

Sure i'll tell you what it is. Celexa,i think 20mg...

 

[thegodfather]

Mdrol gives me bad anxiety. I was diagnosed with GAD several years ago and take medication. Just stay on top of things, if you feel like its getting too bad than just stop the compound.

 

[airram479]

BTW i am pretty sure the Celexa is SSRI. My Doc me if i was gonna start taking OTC drugs to contact or fax what i plan on taking so they can further "advise" but i am pretty sure they are gonna freak when they see the ingredient profile of a PH.

I dunno man,i mean,i ran 6 DTH a day for the entire duration and was fine as far as the aggressive tendencies. No random episodes,no wanting to punch babies or anything like that.

The only thing that makes me really aggressive and nervous is heavy doses of speed.

 

[monsterbox]

dth boosts your T...if anything that will make you feel better.

T doesn't make you angry or want to punch babies, thats a myth. Low-T makes you angry, depressed, anxious, worrisome, mood swings, irritated, low sex drive, confused, and tired.

When you take a stong PH/Steroid WITHOUT a testosterone base (test-E, P, cyp) you WILL feel the effects of shutdown. Havoc/Tren/Pplex/Halo-Drol....ALL OF THOSE aren't real testosterone. They are anabolic compounds that build muscle and inhibit your natural T. So, you open yourself up to feeling like someone without any testosterone, besides the muscle building effects.

If you are on superdrol and shut yourself down to zero, you'll be building muscle like mad, but you will feel extremely low libido, very bad lethargy, and depression/anxiety to an extent. Depends on how well you can function with no hpta.


BTW, superdrol gave me insane insomnia, made me wonder what the point of sleeping was, and hot flashes/anxiety.


If you are someone that has a hard time on harsh compounds I would highly recommened running testosterone as a base or using less powerful, less harsh, compounds like epi/hal-50. During PCT I would certainly be prepared for anxiety as this would be the possible worst point....being shut down without any androgenic activity. Make sure you have a SERM and if you decide to run T as a base, use HCG towards the end to prime you up for PCT. This would be the best way to dodge feelings of low sex drive/anxiety during any cycle.

 

[matthias7]

D+PH: I don't think its cool, better to get the serotonin issue sorted out before messing with other stuff. If you're gonna go then go light - very light.

Test base? ... are we talking DHEA type stuff, i.e. precursor stuff that will get caught up in the androgen pathway here or raw test or AIs?

PH mechanism - I need to learn more on this. Shutdown I understand, what PHs are doing - I thought I knew, but I'm not so sure now.

 

[matthias7]

Sure i'll tell you what it is. Celexa,i think 20mg...

Thats serious. Don't touch PH.

 

[StuartGould]

BTW i am pretty sure the Celexa is SSRI. My Doc me if i was gonna start taking OTC drugs to contact or fax what i plan on taking so they can further "advise" but i am pretty sure they are gonna freak when they see the ingredient profile of a PH.

I dunno man,i mean,i ran 6 DTH a day for the entire duration and was fine as far as the aggressive tendencies. No random episodes,no wanting to punch babies or anything like that.

The only thing that makes me really aggressive and nervous is heavy doses of speed.

As far as pharmacological interactions are concerned, ssri are pretty safe. I see a lot of complex gi cases that r on ssri meds, and also corticosteroids for the underlying problem. Yes I know not sex hormones, but can also have mood effects.

However medical advice will always b avoid other mind altering drugs, Inc alcohol.

If u have had no aggressive component, you will probably be fine. There is always a small chance of an idiosyncratic reaction, but u r FAR more likely to come to grief with speed!

 

[matthias7]

He's on a fairly heavy dose. I think the top-end dosage is 30mg and super dose at 40mg, but I can't be sure. Its not contraindication that is of concern its if the anxiety could destabilize the SSRI and make the mood disorder worse.

Once his normal mood is stable great, but to introduce a destabilizing factor onto an already destabilized mood that could well cause problems.

There are alot of other supps that don't trigger mood problems which can increase test /GH that are perfectly safe. Jumping straight into the deep end ... why not go for a paddle first?

Mild D is might be how its sold but this it is prescribed more like moderate...it ain't frontline - its way too risky. You know the likely outcomes of severe D - its too big a risk.

 

[matthias7]

Lets put it another way ... anxiety precribed at 5mg.

This dosage is 4 times 'anxiety' prescription.

 

[monsterbox]

D+PH: I don't think its cool, better to get the serotonin issue sorted out before messing with other stuff. If you're gonna go then go light - very light.

Test base? ... are we talking DHEA type stuff, i.e. precursor stuff that will get caught up in the androgen pathway here or raw test or AIs?

PH mechanism - I need to learn more on this. Shutdown I understand, what PHs are doing - I thought I knew, but I'm not so sure now.

correct me if i'm wrong, but to my understanding:

Pro-hormones convert to an androgen. Steroids are already active compounds. Steroids are always more potent. Presently, almost every "pro-hormones" is NOT a precusor, and is actually and Oral LEGAL steroid. Superdrol, phera-plex, and epistane are straight up steroids. Theres not much difference between the strongest oral prescription steroid Anadrol and the legal OTC steroid Superdrol.

Testosterone such as the T produced by your HPTA, or Testosterone Enanthate, Sus, Prop, Cyp, or Cream are bioavailable and work/act exactly like T in your body with 1:1 anabolic/androgenic ratio.

Steroids such as Deca, Tren, Epi, Superdrol, Winstrol, D-Bol, ETC....they are NOT the same as using injectable regular T. These drugs are altered forms of testosterone, many of which have very skewed anabolic/androgenic ratio and estrogen conversion. Because of their totally different composition from actual Testosterone, they will exhibit substantial muscle gains, but are not entirely bioidentical which leads to side effects as the body cannot function smoothly on Trenbolone IN PLACE of natural testosterone as it would on Testosterone Enanthate IN PLACE of natural testosterone.

So, the longer you stay on a cycle of any steroids thats NOT regular T, the more you will shut yourself down, leading to more lack-of-real-testosterone side effects.

In this case, it would help tremendously to run some sort of injectable real testosterone such as Test-E, maybe only 100mg/week, along side your oral cycle. This will provide your body with the natural-T support that it will loose from shutting down while benefiting from the gains of the oral compound. DHEA breaks down into different hormones in the body, one of them being a SMALL amount of T. Therefore, its suggested the DHEA would help on mild oral cycles to alleviate shutdown side effects. I used DHEA with havoc and felt a tad bit better. However, my next cycle, if ever more powerful than 30mg of havoc, will include T as a base.

Using AI's, SERMS, and Herbal boosters, or ANYTHING thats designed to boost LH will NOT work on a cycle to provide natural testosterone. The LH will just be suppressed by the steroid, and using the AI/SERM will just crush/block more estrogen than necessary.

 

[matthias7]

Right I finally understand - thanks. In straight organic chemistry PHs are called analogues - they look the same. In endocrinology there is a fancy word for it that I can't remember.

So basically these analogues have different "target specificities". The heavy duty stuff locks straight onto muscle - but (waving my arms about a bit) not for other tissues. So different PHs are going to give very different results and side.... it makes sense.

Okay ... has anyone tried test cream from Libido Edge labs? I presume this is test TD without the IM. To be honest it looks like anti-aging stuff...

I need to check out using Dermacrine on cycle ... not keen on IM.

 

[searl12]

Thats serious. Don't touch PH.

Ive used paxil in the past....and ran a few cycles thinking I would be fine like a moron....well for starters ssri's are tough on the liver as it is, and caffeine/hormone manipulation is NOT something you want to be doing....I turned into a fckn mad man when i mixed the 2 and I dont think ive ever really been the same since to be honest.

But hey what do I know. just my .02

 

[suncloud]

=
I can see it aggravating the anxiety because of elevated T-levels,but as long as you are aware of it...?? What's the big deal? I mean it's not like i am going to:AR15firing:somebody

no, you're going to have hell in PCT if you already have anxiety and depression and then have to deal with crashed T levels and estrogen levels through the roof - women deal with this every month, and that will be you my friend.... but you'll be more depressed/anxious, because you're not used to dealing with that every month....

 

[searl12]

I almost ended my own life after not doing a thourough enough PCT for Extreme Tren, I was so emotional/moody/angered, I literally almost killed 10 people and spent alot of time staring out my 17th floor apartment window wondering if I had the fckn balls to end my worthless life.

If your already depressed you will end up fcked....Im fine now but for a while I never thought Id be the same again....low test levels as a dude IS NOT KOOL, and if you have mental issues you will suffer even more than most.

good luck either way

 

[searl12]

no, you're going to have hell in PCT if you already have anxiety and depression and then have to deal with crashed T levels and estrogen levels through the roof - women deal with this every month, and that will be you my friend.... but you'll be more depressed/anxious, because you're not used to dealing with that every month....

Havent seen you in a while suncloud, was thinking the other day that I hope you were all good and still with us, lol. Looks like your allive and kicking....good enough isnt it!

 

[andrew732]

SEE, people are forgetting it has nothing to do directly with testosterone or estrogen, its all about HOMEOSTASIS, once you throw your hormones off with an extrogenous hormone, your neurotransmitters as well as your CNS change their typical response, this is where anxiety and depression take place. I tell anyone, any ph can cause anxiety, pct can cause it since you are bringing the body back to par so to speak. This is why I do not recommend ph use, its the consumers choice; easy muscle comes with an price and sacrifice; altough I feel one might as well hit up real AAS.

 

[searl12]

SEE, people are forgetting it has nothing to do with test or estrogen, its all about HOMEOSTASIS, once you throw your hormones off with an extrogenous hormone, your neurotransmitters as well as your CNS change their typical response, this is where anxiety and depression take place. I tell anyone, any ph can cause anxiety, pct can cause it since you are bringing the body back to par so to speak. This is why I do not recommend ph use, its the consumers choice; easy muscle comes with an price and sacrifice; altough I feel one might as well hit up real AAS.

well put man, I agree...the easy muscle does come with a price....and the more and more I think about it that price just cant be fckn worth it.

Im going to buy some creapure today and a good protein and just get back to the basics.....since my last run Ive been so lethargic and down and out its almost made my cycle pointless....what a nightmare messing with your hormones is.

 

[airram479]

I had no idea the rabbit hole goes this deep. I am glad i posted this thread instead of being one of the other's who probably just said "**** it" and went ahead anyways.

 

[searl12]

I had no idea the rabbit hole goes this deep. I am glad i posted this thread instead of being one of the other's who probably just said "**** it" and went ahead anyways.

us guys on here love, and I mean love to hear smart people like you! this is so refreshing, its not to say never use anything hormonal....just make damn sure you have all your eggs in the basket lined up or your fcked!.

good luck

 

[matthias7]

Thats serious. Don't touch PH.

Actually (wheres the emote for *blush*) I got SSRIs mixed ... :bigeyes:

Okay you're on frontline stuff mod dose. The diagnosis is bang on. I thought it was the brand name for escitalopram, actually it citalopram. The organic chemistry of escit. is very clean and I dunno why citalopram is still being used -very messy stuff.

Still that said - it ain't as serious as I thought - but you dunno how you'll respond to the SSRI - what happens if you need to switch mid-cycle?? Hey doc. sorry can't do that erhh... cause....it just ain't the right time of the month. Docs response ... "wrong sex for that excuse".

Anyway you've a heap of other stuff to sort out.

 

[searl12]

Actually (wheres the emote for *blush*) I got SSRIs mixed ... :bigeyes:

Okay you're on frontline stuff mod dose. The diagnosis is bang on. I thought it was the brand name for escitalopram, actually it citalopram. The organic chemistry of escit. is very clean and I dunno why citalopram is still being used -very messy stuff.

Still that said - it ain't as serious as I thought - but you dunno how you'll respond to the SSRI - what happens if you need to switch mid-cycle?? Hey doc. sorry can't do that erhh... cause....it just ain't the right time of the month. Docs response ... "wrong sex for that excuse".

You've a heap of other stuff to sort out first, like why you're on script to start with.

I have a solution....some pure creapure creatine and some whey or casein.....hard work food.....no need for hormones, i make just as good gains doing this with a bulk diet tan with hormones, and I keep what i build!

 

[airram479]

Yeah i was thinking the same thing too. It's just hard not to crumble under the pressure sometimes you know,succumbing to the "quick and fast" american way. I'll just stick to my DTH and up my cals to like 4000 a day.

 

[mrh86]

I'm currently taking 150 mg of Zoloft for the exact same conditions, and I'm feeling great while on my current Epi cycle. Shoot me a PM to remind me to let you know how I feel when I finish the cycle.

 

[searl12]

ssris and methyls are not a good mix for your liver, whether you guys believe me or not.

 

[andrew732]

ssris and methyls are not a good mix for your liver, whether you guys believe me or not.

Agreed, toxicity tends to increase when combining the two, not to mention its easier for spikes of blood pressure.

 

[matthias7]

I'm currently taking 150 mg of Zoloft for the exact same conditions, and I'm feeling great while on my current Epi cycle. Shoot me a PM to remind me to let you know how I feel when I finish the cycle.

Sorry but this is crazy.

As soon as you drop off epi/havoc you'll likely need to push the sertraline up and your physician will want to know what the sudden problem is. I could be wrong and hope I am. They'd go nuts if they realized you were on PH. The other thing is what if you got a liver problem? Blood work wouldn't be able to trace it against the PH. At least epi is mild on the liver, I'm not sure at all though if epi is kind on mood.

If this ain't frontline (only you know that) - this really isn't good at all.

This is a good thread but ... Really if you're going to do PH and you've mood problems see if you can make it on the herbal alternatives before the cycle starts. Herbal stuff has very few sides and it should (just guessing here) be easier to up the dose 'cause its a supplement.

I dunno really about PH. IMO (okay and I don't know much here) you're supposed to check each bit out before the cycle starts.

 

[triton185]

You know.....what is ridiculous is that the "legal" stuff fu*ked with me more and caused me more problems than the banned gear! I loved my Test cycle and PCT was easy....I felt fine after everything was done. Just seems to me that Test is safer and causes less problems than PHs....that is assuming you are reasonable in your dosages. Just my randoms thought....yes I am sitting here at work on a slow day at work....bored.

 

[bigshoulders]

correct me if i'm wrong, but to my understanding:

Pro-hormones convert to an androgen. Steroids are already active compounds. Steroids are always more potent. Presently, almost every "pro-hormones" is NOT a precusor, and is actually and Oral LEGAL steroid. Superdrol, phera-plex, and epistane are straight up steroids. Theres not much difference between the strongest oral prescription steroid Anadrol and the legal OTC steroid Superdrol.

Testosterone such as the T produced by your HPTA, or Testosterone Enanthate, Sus, Prop, Cyp, or Cream are bioavailable and work/act exactly like T in your body with 1:1 anabolic/androgenic ratio.

Steroids such as Deca, Tren, Epi, Superdrol, Winstrol, D-Bol, ETC....they are NOT the same as using injectable regular T. These drugs are altered forms of testosterone, many of which have very skewed anabolic/androgenic ratio and estrogen conversion. Because of their totally different composition from actual Testosterone, they will exhibit substantial muscle gains, but are not entirely bioidentical which leads to side effects as the body cannot function smoothly on Trenbolone IN PLACE of natural testosterone as it would on Testosterone Enanthate IN PLACE of natural testosterone.

So, the longer you stay on a cycle of any steroids thats NOT regular T, the more you will shut yourself down, leading to more lack-of-real-testosterone side effects.

In this case, it would help tremendously to run some sort of injectable real testosterone such as Test-E, maybe only 100mg/week, along side your oral cycle. This will provide your body with the natural-T support that it will loose from shutting down while benefiting from the gains of the oral compound. DHEA breaks down into different hormones in the body, one of them being a SMALL amount of T. Therefore, its suggested the DHEA would help on mild oral cycles to alleviate shutdown side effects. I used DHEA with havoc and felt a tad bit better. However, my next cycle, if ever more powerful than 30mg of havoc, will include T as a base.

Using AI's, SERMS, and Herbal boosters, or ANYTHING thats designed to boost LH will NOT work on a cycle to provide natural testosterone. The LH will just be suppressed by the steroid, and using the AI/SERM will just crush/block more estrogen than necessary.

Good posting monsterbox.
How about HCG instead of test 100mg?
If you only want to replace your normal levels of test while on cycle, then you could probably get away with 500ius of HCG every 5 days, for a 4 week cycle of prohormone.

You would also be keeping your balls plump and helping your recovery.

If I ever do a PH cycle I think I would add HCG for those two reasons.