Supplementing with bulk l-leucine.

KRNMuscle

KRNMuscle

New member
Awards
0
I posted this one bb.com but since I've only gotten less than helpful replies, I'll give it a shot here.

Now I've read an article by Layne and he says leucine plays a major role in activating mTOR for protein synthesis. And in a controlled study between carb only post,carb+protein post and carb+protein+leucine post that the third group did the best by having the least muscle breakdown and most skeletal muscle protein synthesis.

So my question is, other than adding leucine to a post workout protein shake. When else do I take it? and how much?
Should I also take it pre/intra?

Thanks
 
John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I posted this one bb.com but since I've only gotten less than helpful replies, I'll give it a shot here.

Now I've read an article by Layne and he says leucine plays a major role in activating mTOR for protein synthesis. And in a controlled study between carb only post,carb+protein post and carb+protein+leucine post that the third group did the best by having the least muscle breakdown and most skeletal muscle protein synthesis.

So my question is, other than adding leucine to a post workout protein shake. When else do I take it? and how much?
Should I also take it pre/intra?

Thanks
Take it with carb and protein meals.

I take mine usually pre-gym with a carb and protein meal(take them little flavor packets mix it in a bottle with water[you can also put beta alanine powder and creatine in it] shake and there you go. I take 3 grams with meals and 6 grams post-training) it works well well for aiding in fatloss, increasing muscle mass and great if your losing bodyfat to preserve that lean muscle tissue.
 
KRNMuscle

KRNMuscle

New member
Awards
0
So three grams with carb and protein pre-workout and three grams also for every meal of the day that has carb and protein. And 6gram+carb+protein shake post-workout?

How does one measure a gram of leucine?
 

JaredGalloway

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
i like taking 5-7grams first thing in the morning, b4 workouts, after workouts, and b4 bed... always with a protein containing meal...
 

redemption79

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I posted this one bb.com but since I've only gotten less than helpful replies, I'll give it a shot here.

Now I've read an article by Layne and he says leucine plays a major role in activating mTOR for protein synthesis. And in a controlled study between carb only post,carb+protein post and carb+protein+leucine post that the third group did the best by having the least muscle breakdown and most skeletal muscle protein synthesis.

So my question is, other than adding leucine to a post workout protein shake. When else do I take it? and how much?
Should I also take it pre/intra?

Thanks
Many bodybuilders know that consumption of a pre-exercise mixture of BCAA’s or Leucine before resistance exercise enhances anabolic effects but new research suggests that strength training can slow the absorption of both BCAA and leucine. Researchers measured peak concentration of three amino acids (BCAA, Leucine, and Glutamine) during rest and before intense resistance exercise. The subjects took 50 mg/kg of bodyweight of leucine (4 grams), BCAA (4 grams of leucine, 1 gram isoleucine, 1 gram valine), or glutamine (4 grams) immediately before performing a standardized resistance training protocol to stimulate muscle hypertrophy. The ingestion of 4 grams of leucine is similar to eating 230 grams of beef. Here are the results:

Peak Concentrations in Blood
Leucine Rest: 67 minutes
Leucine before Resistance exercise: 90 minutes (23 minute delay)

BCAA Rest: 72 minutes
BCAA before Resistance exercise: 78 minutes (6 minute delay)

Glutamine Rest: 60 minutes
Glutamine before Resistance exercise: 57 minutes

The researchers speculated that the delay in peak concentrations of leucine and BCAA was due to delayed gastric emptying which means that blood flow is diverted to exercising muscle and away from the stomach which slows the digestive process. The researchers were puzzled why peak appearance of glutamine in the blood was not affected; they speculated that glutamine is metabolized differently and resistance exercise does not slow absorption kinetics. The important take home point is that taking leucine should probably occur at least 90 minutes before exercise so that when you reach the gym you have peak concentrations of leucine in your blood.

ØMero A, Leikas A, Knuutinen J, Hulmi JJ, Kovanen V.
Effect of strength training session on plasma amino acid
concentration following oral ingestion of leucine, BCAAs
or glutamine in men. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2008 Oct 21.
 

redemption79

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Leucine also has the ability to maximize/enhance insulin response from your post workout shake/meal, so it's good to already have plasma levels elevated prior to your post-workout carbs/protein. IMO, if you're drinking a whey protein shake post workout and supplementing with leucine prior to exercise as noted above, the extra leucine is not needed, as your protein shake should have ample leucine content itself.
 
Cinn

Cinn

Member
Awards
0
IMO, if you're drinking a whey protein shake post workout and supplementing with leucine prior to exercise as noted above, the extra leucine is not needed, as your protein shake should have ample leucine content itself.
I disagree. Reaching peak plasma levels is one thing but maintaining them is another. Much of it will be used for proteolysis inhibition. It makes sense to want to supplement with additional leucine during and post-workout(beyond a pwo protein shake) for the increased protein synthesis effects. Let's also not forget benefits WRT cytokine production, etc.

I do think it is unnecessary to take it throughout the day with other meals, though.
 

redemption79

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I disagree. Reaching peak plasma levels is one thing but maintaining them is another. Much of it will be used for proteolysis inhibition. It makes sense to want to supplement with additional leucine during and post-workout(beyond a pwo protein shake) for the increased protein synthesis effects. Let's also not forget benefits WRT cytokine production, etc.

I do think it is unnecessary to take it throughout the day with other meals, though.
How much leucine do you think is necessary post workout? I find that a standard whey protein shake will contain 2-3 grams, not to mention other foods consumed that will have at least some leucine content.

Do you propose that there are significant benefits in "mega-dosing" leucine? I know this is quite common practice, yet I haven't found any concrete support for claims that more than a few grams of leucine at a time are beneficial.
 

redemption79

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Here is a question Layne Norton recently addressed regarding this subject:

"Hey Layne, I was listening to your interview on the MD research show and I was really impressed with your research and knowledge on the subject of protein metabolism. I have been coming to the conclusion over the last few months that 2-3 hour feedings were unnecessary. I sort of came about it though from anecdotal evidence from those trying Intermittent fasting such as the warrior diet as well as looking back at prehistoric man and figuring they would have eaten large amounts of protein once or twice a day at most. Also I know that digestive enzymes can be depleted from frequent food intake. It is good to find some science to back up my assumptions.

So to break this down to simple terms you were saying in the interview that the body is basically using blood leucine levels as a measuring stick of the quantity and quality of protein consumed and switching on protein synthesis if it senses there is enough available?

Also you said about 2.5 grams of leucine produced the maximum response from the body. If one were to consume more, lets say 5 grams would the response last longer? I'm thinking that the blood level would spike higher and then take longer to come back down. Or would it just be a waste?"


And his response:

"you interpreted everything very correctly, nice job. Not many people catch that much first time listening.

I do not believe that more would extend protein synthesis further based on my data, as plasma leucine was not limiting in my study and it still failed to extend protein synthesis. Good question though, you are thinking in 3-D
"
 
KRNMuscle

KRNMuscle

New member
Awards
0
I see. Thank you for the responses.

But as I asked before, how much is a gram of leucine? Teaspoon, half a tablespoon or what?

thanks
 
bigrobbierob

bigrobbierob

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Depends on the powder. 1/4tsp is likely 450mg if you got it from NP.
So, if my math is right, the "optimum dose" as stated in the article of 2.5 grams would be right at 1 1/4 tsp?

(my NP leucine just arrived a few minutes ago!!!)
 
nycste

nycste

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
so in summary

we should all be drinking lots of water daily, i know myself sometimes i do sometimes i dont, instead id rather just drink coffee

instead we should just walk around or prepare 8-12oz bottles of water or more with like 1 scoop bcaa flavored powder and 1 scoop leucine for extra benefit and drink this 2-3 times inbtw meals throughout the day which also increases our chances of drinking water, remains a cheap way to keep protein up and all that other jaz

amiright?
 
dmillz224

dmillz224

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I would think that dosing pre and post would be most beneficial as the food you eat through out the day should contain some leucine unless your cutting then I think it would be more beneficial to dose throughout the day
 
bigrobbierob

bigrobbierob

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
What do you guys think of the Biotest/T-Nation idea of 20 grams a day in divided doses (they say 5 grams 4x a day).

Here's the "special report" (I realize that it's a sales pitch)

This is sooo cool.

For weeks, Tim Patterson and I have been pimping out our food.

And no, I'm not talking about putting crushed-velour seats, naked-woman hood ornaments, fuzzy dice, and a sound system with absolutely no treble on our bowls of oatmeal.

I'm talking about doing something to our food that unleashes all its anabolic might. I'm talking about doing something to our food that increases its anabolic potential by 70 percent! I'm talking about doing something to our food that makes bad food good and good food great!

We either sprinkle one scoop of snow-white, tasteless powder onto our meal, or mix one scoop in a glass of water and drink it down before we eat.

Add a scoop to a hot fudge sundae and you've turned a bad meal into a semi-legitimate bodybuilding meal.

Add a scoop to one of those Chunky soups the NFL players endorse and you've turned the soup into the muscle building meal it pretends to be.

Add a scoop to a protein drink and you can practically hear the "bricks" of muscle being slapped on.

And it's all so simple. It's so simple it's beautiful. It's so simple it might even be hard to believe, but the research is bulletproof.

It's something we started to slowly realize a couple of years ago. Whenever we studied the effects of protein, it seemed that one specific amino acid, one specific branched-chain amino acid, was almost entirely responsible for muscle protein synthesis.

That means that no matter how little or how much protein you ingested, its muscle-building effects (or lack thereof) were almost entirely controlled by the amount of one specific amino acid you had in your bloodstream.

And the name of that specific amino acid?

Leucine.

Regardless, we didn't act on our suspicions because there wasn't enough real-world research on animals or humans to verify it. That, however, has changed in the last couple of years.

It seems clear now that Leucine stimulates protein synthesis and translation initiation and is likely the major amino acid responsible for the anabolic effects of a meal.(1)(2)

"At this point, it seems clear that most of the effects of amino acids on protein synthesis are mediated by Leucine."

— Martha Stipanuk, PhD, Cornell University

Just adding a few grams of Leucine to a meal, high protein or not-so-high protein, increases muscle protein synthesis by 50-70 percent in humans (3)(4) and increases protein turnover by over 500 percent!(5)

Apparently, orally administered Leucine stimulates muscle-protein synthesis by itself, independent of the insulin surge you get from a meal. However, it does seem that the role of insulin is permissive in that some rise in insulin is necessary to allow Leucine to do its work. (6)

The message is that Leucine is best used with a meal, rather than taken in-between meals by itself.

Additionally, adding Leucine to a 100% carbohydrate meal isn't the best idea, either. It seems the effects of Leucine are rate-limited if other amino acids aren't present.(6) That means that Leucine, while anabolic all on its own, won't do its best work unless there are at least some other amino acids present.

In short, a protein meal is good, but adding Leucine to it makes it much, much better.

Furthermore, it seems the change in Leucine concentration in the blood may be more important than the actual amount of Leucine in the blood, so you don't want to take Leucine non-stop.(1) It's better to take a scoop of it (about 5 grams) with a meal, let blood levels drop, and then take another scoop about 4 hours later.

"Supplemental Leucine allows for the muscle to achieve maximum protein synthesis and anabolic recovery."

— Layne Norton and Donald Layman, University of Illinois

So here's what we did. We acquired the purest, most highly regarded L-Leucine in the world from the Ajinomoto Corporation in Japan (this is the stuff hospitals use in IV drips) and we packaged in 450-gram containers. (That's 90 servings.)

Just add one 5-gram scoop to water, a protein shake, your workout drink, or just sprinkle it over your food. Just don't exceed four scoops (20 grams) per day.

L-Leucine is simple, it's economical, and by increasing the anabolic quality of food by 70%, it's oh-so effective.

If food is the ultimate anabolic drug, we've just pimped it out and made it a whole lot better.


References:

1. Norton LE and Layman DK. Leucine regulates translation initiation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle after exercise. J Nutr. 2006; 136(2):533S-537S.

2. Stipanuk, Martha H. Leucine and protein synthesis: mTOR and beyond. Nutrition Reviews. 2007;Mar;Vol. 65, No. 3:122-9.

3. Padden-Jones D, et al. Amino acid ingestion improves muscle protein synthesis in the young and elderly. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Mar;286(3):E321-8.

4. Tipton, KD, et al. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol. 1999 Apr;276(4 Pt 1):E628-34.

5. Rasmussen BB, Phillips SM. Contractile and nutritional regulation of human muscle growth. Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2003 Jul;31(3):127-31.

6. Rieu, Isabelle. Leucine supplementation improves muscle protein synthesis in elderly men independently of hyperaminoacidaemia. J. Physiol. 2006;575;305-15.
 
nycste

nycste

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
interesting read, they dont give to much data but if this is true would be a great simple cost effective way to boost our muscles to growth
 
dmillz224

dmillz224

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
sounds interesting but 20 grams a day seems like a lot to just dose by itself on top of the leucine you get in your diet already I take usually 5-10 grams a day of bulk leucine around my workout and with my bcaa/eaa mix before bed I know a lot of people mega dose bcaa's but I've never seen anyone mega dose Just leucine by itself maybe somone else can elaborate
 
wearedbleedblue

wearedbleedblue

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I dose 15g leucine in my shake PWO. I'm thinking about starting to add 5g here and there in my meals. Its cheap so why not.
 
nycste

nycste

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
the only problem with my bulk leucine is it taste funny and doesnt mix well at all just floats and very powdery

anyone know a really simple solution to make leucine nuggets or little balls to eat or just swallow simply and easily something like 5g a pop?
 
dmillz224

dmillz224

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Yea it doesn't taste very good by itself that's for sure.

 
Steveoph

Steveoph

NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Awards
2
  • Legend!
  • Established
Bah, man up. Toss back 5g, chew it down, and it's gone. I haven't even used water with it for ages. No mixability issues this way :D I've probably gone through 2kg+ in this manner.
 
bigrobbierob

bigrobbierob

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have to admit, I usually toss my stuff back. Cissus...Pslin...toughed it all out. I took my first dose of Leucine yesterday and it left me dancing around the kitchen! lol

I can imagine mixing it with CEE and arginine ester will leave a person doing the Curly shuffle!!!!!!!! lol
 
dmillz224

dmillz224

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Bah, man up. Toss back 5g, chew it down, and it's gone. I haven't even used water with it for ages. No mixability issues this way :D I've probably gone through 2kg+ in this manner.
Man that's hardcore I can't down any powder like that the whole gag reflex thing but u get used to the taste so it's not that bad

 
Jag

Jag

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
the only problem with my bulk leucine is it taste funny and doesnt mix well at all just floats and very powdery

anyone know a really simple solution to make leucine nuggets or little balls to eat or just swallow simply and easily something like 5g a pop?
Try putting it in the fridge for a while. This seems to work with Purple Wraath and i'm assuming it's the BCAA's in the PW that doesn't mix well.

If i have the bulk BCAA though i just spoon it in and chase it down with some fluid. It doesn't really have a taste.

Just don't take a big breath just as you put it in your mouth as it's very powdery and may cause choking.............and your friends to be pointing and laughing. :D I'm saying this because i've seen it happen!!!
 

Top