A crazy new discovery by LG Sciences

[LG Sciences]

We have isolated the strongest known anti-estrogen, even stronger than ATD! Look for this new ingredient to come out as soon as we can find a reliable source.

KI's for different Anti-Aromatase (lower is MUCH better)
6-OXO ~ 1500-5000 depending on the test
Formestane ~ 1500-3000
1,4 Androstadienedione - 180
1,4,6 Androstatrienedione - 56
New LG Anti-Aromatase - 6

This means we have isolated the strongest AI in the supplement world and it should blast testosterone levels past anything on the market! We have to find a reliable source though, since it is currently not being sold on the market anywhere. I'll keep you updated!

 

[jumpshot903]

Sounds hawt seems like a lot of breakthroughs are being made lately.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Was it found on Burial Grounds in India? :blink:

Okay, to be serious: Is this compound something that has been used in anything (supplement or prescription)? And what sort of test did you use to get the numbers?

 

[Steveoph]

We have isolated the strongest known anti-estrogen, even stronger than ATD! Look for this new ingredient to come out as soon as we can find a reliable source.

KI's for different Anti-Aromatase (lower is MUCH better)
6-OXO ~ 1500-5000 depending on the test
Formestane ~ 1500-3000
1,4 Androstadienedione - 180
1,4,6 Androstatrienedione - 56
New LG Anti-Aromatase - 6

This means we have isolated the strongest AI in the supplement world and it should blast testosterone levels past anything on the market! We have to find a reliable source though, since it is currently not being sold on the market anywhere. I'll keep you updated!

Well it sounds promising; I feel that crushing E2 isn't the solution to sky-high T levels. Estrogen is needed by the body, and wiping it out isn't a great idea. Still excited about a new AI and it's properties though :thumbsup:

 

[JaredGalloway]

what will the dosage be like...as in just 5 mgs ED... or more along the lines of 6-oxo(300-600)... Will this new compound have any other effects besides an AI...as in increasing IGF-1 (like formestane?) or increasing DHT (like 6-oxo?)... just wondering because its always interesting to hear about new products (and the science behind them)...

 

[jsp0785]

Well it sounds promising; I feel that crushing E2 isn't the solution to sky-high T levels. Estrogen is needed by the body, and wiping it out isn't a great idea. Still excited about a new AI and it's properties though :thumbsup:

i was gonna say how is this good? usually ATD is too much and libido goes to hell.

 

[Outside Backer]

estrogen is needed in the body still too much crushing can be a bad thing

 

[john123131]

estrogen is needed in the body still too much crushing can be a bad thing

agreed..

be interesting so see how this works

 

[quigs]

We have isolated the strongest known anti-estrogen, even stronger than ATD! Look for this new ingredient to come out as soon as we can find a reliable source.

KI's for different Anti-Aromatase (lower is MUCH better)
6-OXO ~ 1500-5000 depending on the test
Formestane ~ 1500-3000
1,4 Androstadienedione - 180
1,4,6 Androstatrienedione - 56
New LG Anti-Aromatase - 6

This means we have isolated the strongest AI in the supplement world and it should blast testosterone levels past anything on the market! We have to find a reliable source though, since it is currently not being sold on the market anywhere. I'll keep you updated!

Why would you want something so potent to begin with? I would think that the better route would be to take a compound with a lower affinity for aromatase and increasing the dosage. Gives you more room to play with.

You don't necessarily want to crush E levels into the ground...which could happen easily with something that would be so effective at such a low dose.

estrogen is needed in the body still too much crushing can be a bad thing

Exactly.

 

[quigs]

what will the dosage be like...as in just 5 mgs ED... or more along the lines of 6-oxo(300-600)... Will this new compound have any other effects besides an AI...as in increasing IGF-1 (like formestane?) or increasing DHT (like 6-oxo?)... just wondering because its always interesting to hear about new products (and the science behind them)...

The daily dosage of something like this should only be a few mg per day.

Anything that increases testosterone levels without reducing 5-alpha reductase will increase DHT. This is not specific to 6-OXO.

 

[worm]

I agree with everyone else in here. anything more than 25mg of atd a day and I have dry joints. and can kiss my libido goodbye.

 

[jsp0785]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

 

[Steveoph]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

It's the middle of the weekend , nobody is in any hurry. I'm sure they will pop by when they are on AM

 

[john123131]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

its saturday, give them a little break..lol

 

[Rx Lift]

why not just use armidex?

 

[Steveoph]

why not just use armidex?

Because that's a drug, and some people like to stay clear of the law and grey-areas.

 

[Rx Lift]

Because that's a drug, and some people like to stay clear of the law and grey-areas.

Correct its a drug but its not scheduled like AAS and its very well studied (unlike whatever LG's discovery is).

Legality wise, your not going to go to jail for getting Arimdex. And safety wise you will be using something has been very very well studied and is being used by millions of users.

Just my thoughts..I'm not a big fan of AI's and crushing estrogen.

 

[Iron Lungz]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

Dude, chill the fukc out. Not everyone lives on the computer during the weekend. They will respond soon enough.

 

[Craigmatthew]

Dude, chill the fukc out. Not everyone lives on the computer during the weekend. They will respond soon enough.

haha I'm here, but to be honest since this isn't even in production, I have little to no details on this. I'm sure we will hear more soon enough. The LG reps only know so much, legalgear is the man with the information, so I wait patiently, just like you people

 

[jsp0785]

Dude, chill the fukc out. Not everyone lives on the computer during the weekend. They will respond soon enough.

wow... issues much?

 

[EasyEJL]

why not just use armidex?

Because that's a drug, and some people like to stay clear of the law and grey-areas.

Correct its a drug but its not scheduled like AAS and its very well studied (unlike whatever LG's discovery is).

Legality wise, your not going to go to jail for getting Arimdex. And safety wise you will be using something has been very very well studied and is being used by millions of users.

Just my thoughts..I'm not a big fan of AI's and crushing estrogen.

"Legality wise, your not going to go to jail for getting Arimdex." does that statement include a guarantee, paying for my legal fees, and reimbursing me for income lost while i'm in jail? Arimidex is illegal to have in your possession without a prescription, been just having this same conversation about SERMs. Can I show anyone who has been arrested and convicted of it? No, but that doesn't change the fact that its illegal, I just dont have that much time on my hands look up "Legend Drug" laws if you are interested.

And its expensive as FACK. at a reasonable dose you are still looking at $50-60 a month, maybe more. But probably worth it

 

[quigs]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

What do you want to know? I'm not a LG rep, but there's a lot of bright guys here in this thread and I think most all questions have been answered.

 

[TexasTitan]

What do you want to know? I'm not a LG rep, but there's a lot of bright guys here in this thread and I think most all questions have been answered.

Hell I have one. What in your opinion would be a good AI to couple with a T-Booster just standalone? Reversitol and DTH? Trione from nutra?

 

[EasyEJL]

Low dose ATD (25mg), moderately low dose 6-bromo (50-100)

 

[Iron Lungz]

wow... issues much?

Can you ask a question that is coherent and in clear text? Thanks.

 

[quigs]

Hell I have one. What in your opinion would be a good AI to couple with a T-Booster just standalone? Reversitol and DTH? Trione from nutra?

Low dose ATD (25mg), moderately low dose 6-bromo (50-100)

I think that both of the above are good options. 6-oxo as well. IMO, as long as the dosage for the particular compound is kept reasonable then you can use pretty much any of the currently available AI's with good results.

I'm biased, but I like Arom-x by AMS as an ATD based AI. The dosage is kept low, so that you can adjust accordingly. When ATD first came out, people were running it at like 75mg per day...which IMO was way too high.

Another good one is 2nd gear by AN for a 6-bromo based AI, and 6-oxo by ergopharm.

 

[jsp0785]

Can you ask a question that is coherent and in clear text? Thanks.

haha and i'm the douche? WTF are u even talking about?

 

[TexasTitan]

Low dose ATD (25mg), moderately low dose 6-bromo (50-100)

Thank you.

I think that both of the above are good options. 6-oxo as well. IMO, as long as the dosage for the particular compound is kept reasonable then you can use pretty much any of the currently available AI's with good results.

I'm biased, but I like Arom-x by AMS as an ATD based AI. The dosage is kept low, so that you can adjust accordingly. When ATD first came out, people were running it at like 75mg per day...which IMO was way too high.

Another good one is 2nd gear by AN for a 6-bromo based AI, and 6-oxo by ergopharm.

Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is a good way to find that "sweet spot." I mean, I guess there is the obvious, but its hard for me to imagine how a hypothetical thing would be with too little and too much. Sure there are the known sides for too much...Im rambling now, but see what I mean? Ill check those out.

 

[EasyEJL]

you will likely want something under label dose, so depends on product. for 6-oxo, you'd want 100-200mg/day, atd 25 is it, but if you get a product that has lower dose per cap you can probably do more (50 is too much for most guys to maintain libido on for some reason)

Basically libido loss and joint pain mean you are overdoing it

 

[ShiftyCapone]

Thank you.



Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is a good way to find that "sweet spot." I mean, I guess there is the obvious, but its hard for me to imagine how a hypothetical thing would be with too little and too much. Sure there are the known sides for too much...Im rambling now, but see what I mean? Ill check those out.

I know what you mean. Basically the "sweet spot" is a dose high enough to be effective but low enough so that you only notice minimal side effects associated with extremely low estrogen such as sore joints and loss of libido. 75mg of ATD is going to stomp all the f*ck over your libido 99% of the time. There's also a good chance that you will notice an increased soreness in joints especially, but not limited to, your knees and shoulders.

 

[ShiftyCapone]

I'm biased, but I like Arom-x by AMS as an ATD based AI. The dosage is kept low, so that you can adjust accordingly. When ATD first came out, people were running it at like 75mg per day...which IMO was way too high.

Another good one is 2nd gear by AN for a 6-bromo based AI, and 6-oxo by ergopharm.

And I agree here. I'm currently using AMS' Arom-X and really enjoying it. I've always had issues with libido during PCT because of dosing ATD too high. But that was quite a while back when there weren't as many options for PCT as there are now. I doubt low-dosed ATD would be a successful enough PCT for some of the stronger PHs out there, but like I said, there are a lot more effective compounds to add into the mix these days...

 

[subweevil]

and not a single response from LG science reps....

wow... issues much?

haha and i'm the douche? WTF are u even talking about?

Man, I'd say get a clue, but you'd more than likely post some crap about how i didn't explain what a clue was, or better yet, asking how to get a clue, or perhaps not responding quickly enough about what a clue is and how to acquire one. Seriously, everything has already been answered. Getting real tired of logging in here to read stuff and having a nice read interrupted by people like you, posting crap like this.

 

[quigs]

Thank you.



Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is a good way to find that "sweet spot." I mean, I guess there is the obvious, but its hard for me to imagine how a hypothetical thing would be with too little and too much. Sure there are the known sides for too much...Im rambling now, but see what I mean? Ill check those out.

you will likely want something under label dose, so depends on product. for 6-oxo, you'd want 100-200mg/day, atd 25 is it, but if you get a product that has lower dose per cap you can probably do more (50 is too much for most guys to maintain libido on for some reason)

Basically libido loss and joint pain mean you are overdoing it

See, I found 6-oxo to be effective around 2-300mg/day and for ATD at only around 15mg. I'm sure 25mg of ATD would be fine as well...50mg is too much IMO though...as EasyEJL stated. I've gone up to around 50-75mg of ATD and felt like absolute ****. No libido, lethargy, irritability, etc. That was back when it was dosed at like 25mg caps though.

 

[quigs]

And I agree here. I'm currently using AMS' Arom-X and really enjoying it. I've always had issues with libido during PCT because of dosing ATD too high. But that was quite a while back when there weren't as many options for PCT as there are now. I doubt low-dosed ATD would be a successful enough PCT for some of the stronger PHs out there, but like I said, there are a lot more effective compounds to add into the mix these days...

IMO, anti-aromatase compounds can be just as effective for PCT as SERMs in re-establishing LH/FSH production.

Personally though, for other reasons I do tend to prefer SERMs. Unfortunately, they aren't legally available OTC...while potent AIs are.

 

[JaredGalloway]

The daily dosage of something like this should only be a few mg per day.

Anything that increases testosterone levels without reducing 5-alpha reductase will increase DHT. This is not specific to 6-OXO.

Yeah... most of the studies ive read showed a larger increase in DHT when supplementing with 6-oxo as opposed to formestane or ATD... do u know what the new AI is...

 

[fayd]

Yeah... most of the studies ive read showed a larger increase in DHT when supplementing with 6-oxo as opposed to formestane or ATD... do u know what the new AI is...

I dont know about form (which is supposed to inhibit 5ar or something) but if you've taken a look at Novedex XT studies (i know, not JUST ATD) DHT shoots up by around 500% as opposed to the 200% or so in the 6oxo.

On another note, is there reason to assume that just because it has the 'strongest KI affinity' that it will therefore reduce estrogen more? Couldn't it mean it will just be dosed lower? Also, I personally believe that ATD kills libido in some bc it is an anti-androgen in the brain, (or due to some other inherent properties) not just bc it cripples estrogen. You'll find if you look at the studies with ATD containing products, even at very high doses, estrogen is often not obliterated. Yet I defy anyone to take 4 caps of NovXT and still feel like sex despite the apparent lack of complete estrogen inhibition.

 

[quigs]

Yeah... most of the studies ive read showed a larger increase in DHT when supplementing with 6-oxo as opposed to formestane or ATD... do u know what the new AI is...

No, I do not. Sorry.

I dont know about form (which is supposed to inhibit 5ar or something) but if you've taken a look at Novedex XT studies (i know, not JUST ATD) DHT shoots up by around 500% as opposed to the 200% or so in the 6oxo.

On another note, is there reason to assume that just because it has the 'strongest KI affinity' that it will therefore reduce estrogen more? Couldn't it mean it will just be dosed lower? Also, I personally believe that ATD kills libido in some bc it is an anti-androgen in the brain, (or due to some other inherent properties) not just bc it cripples estrogen. You'll find if you look at the studies with ATD containing products, even at very high doses, estrogen is often not obliterated. Yet I defy anyone to take 4 caps of NovXT and still feel like sex despite the apparent lack of complete estrogen inhibition.

Exactly, you will just require a lower dosage. If you look at the list in the OP, the ones with the lower affinity (6-oxo) are dosed much higher than those with a high affinity (ATD). Doesn't mean that at the proper dosages one is more effective than the other.

There may be more to the libido killing effects of ATD than just the lowering of estrogen. You are correct.

 

[Craigmatthew]

Interesting thread now! Awesome guys

 

[giantbrandon]

so somthing like this could be used for "real gear" that Aromatase as opposed to somthing like arimidex???

 

[eatingisfun]

How does it compare to letro?

 

[Aggravated]

Sounds awesome! Can't wait to be able to try this stuff!

 

[thebigt]

"Legality wise, your not going to go to jail for getting Arimdex." does that statement include a guarantee, paying for my legal fees, and reimbursing me for income lost while i'm in jail? Arimidex is illegal to have in your possession without a prescription, been just having this same conversation about SERMs. Can I show anyone who has been arrested and convicted of it? No, but that doesn't change the fact that its illegal, I just dont have that much time on my hands look up "Legend Drug" laws if you are interested.

And its expensive as FACK. at a reasonable dose you are still looking at $50-60 a month, maybe more. But probably worth it

one thing that is overlooked when it comes to research chems- it is an unregulated industry. how do you know what you are getting is what you think you are getting in the amount you think you are getting? what are you going to do if your research chem is bogus? turn your dealer in?:18:

 

[Imeniaan]

YEEEYYY! Another supplement that will annihilate your libido and sexual performances. I don't know about the rest of you guys but for me;

Sex is Numero Uno!

1. Sex
2. Bodybuilding
3. Food

 

[jsp0785]

one thing that is overlooked when it comes to research chems- it is an unregulated industry. how do you know what you are getting is what you think you are getting in the amount you think you are getting? what are you going to do if your research chem is bogus? turn your dealer in?:18:

the supplement industry isn't regulated either is it?

 

[thebigt]

the supplement industry isn't regulated either is it?

the point being the supplement industry is selling LEGAL supplements, not prescription required chemicals.

 

[EasyEJL]

the supplement industry isn't regulated either is it?

it is regulated just less so than with pharma.

there is the issue of legal liability - in purchasing research chemicals part of your agreement is that you wont' ingest them. so if you were to get ill, etc from using them your recourse is limited.

 

[Steveoph]

the supplement industry isn't regulated either is it?

A very valid point. This is why Sam is working hard to transition NP's bulk products to follow the new cGMP guidelines. More and more supp companies are getting cGMP certified :thumbsup:

 

[fayd]

the supplement industry isn't regulated either is it?

I think the idea is good companies will self-regulate, by testing raws, final batches, and perhaps following GMP or getting the certification. Ergopharm's products may not be regulated like Pfizers, but they are way more so than xchemlabsnolvazz.com I think that's what BigT was getting at.

 

[jsp0785]

the point being the supplement industry is selling LEGAL supplements, not prescription required chemicals.

yes but also many companies have been known for or caught putting illegal supps not to mention the legality of a lot of pro hormones and designer roids are only legal because they haven't been found out about yet.

 

[jsp0785]

I think the idea is good companies will self-regulate, by testing raws, final batches, and perhaps following GMP or getting the certification. Ergopharm's products may not be regulated like Pfizers, but they are way more so than xchemlabsnolvazz.com I think that's what BigT was getting at.

i know, just saying not all of them do