Nicotine; a hardening agent and useful tool to minimize fat storage while bulking.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by intv
    Damn, sorry about your uncle, but it's good that your mother quit. Make sure you keep her away from any smokes! My wife backslid several times after quitting - but I gave her hell for it, and she finally got tired of my bitching and decided sneaking a cig just wasn't worth it.

    I haven't tried the patches, but I'd think they'd be more effective overall - a steady stream of nicotine, and less chance of addiction. I've heard the patches are quite a bit stronger though.

    Yeah, the patches I have are 6mg, 10mg, and 14mg. I won't even use the bigger ones, they just get me sick and supress my appetite so much, its like I'm on some methyl 1-T. It'll be interesting to see how my body comes out of the winter-bulking cocoon this time around. Come spring, hopefully I'll have a head start.


  2. OK, heres my thoughts.

    I've never been a "smoker".

    Over the years i guess you could say i became "addicted" at certain times, and at those times i would crave a ciggarette or dip(RedMan is my choice! ). When i was drinking, up late and studying, after getting in a fight, and on my way to the gym. Basically while under a lot of stress, or when the adrenaline is going(whether natural or EC induced).

    Then i read up on Nicotine from Mind and Muscle, and bought some of the gum. The gum made me realize just how disgusting ciggarettes were. I also noticed how much better the effects frrom the gum were. Instead of an instant "buzz" like one gets from cigs or dip, it was more of a prolonged and drawn out calmness(if your interested why, go over to mind and muscle and read the write up from a few months ago).

    I've now cut twice while using nicotine in correlation with EC and the results have exceeded anything i could hope for. At the end of my last cycle (ending 2 weeks ago), i managed to drop the EC and nicotine cold turkey and i must say their was no addictive potential in the nicotine for me. I still have tons of packs of Nicotine gum in my house as well as dip, but rarely ever use it. I always bring some out when drinking, and after a big binge i'll thrown in a dip or gum in efforts to offset some damage. But as far as being "addicted" i wouldn't consider myself so. At least not in an everyday capacity.

    I should add that nicotine during a cut will destroy your appetite. I've said it before and will say it many more times. You can easily go from eating 8 meals a day to 2 meals a day, and not notice a difference in fullness. WHile using nicotine you will notice a huge overall increase in mood, decrease in anxiety and depression (Non-existent for me), you'll keep more muscle mass, have more energy, and your EC buzz will definitely be brought up.

    The only problem is when you drop the nicotine and you forget that you used to eat 8 meals a day, and you become quite cranky!!

    As a bodybuilding supplement i would give nicotine 10/10, and can't think of any other supplement that will have a bigger increase on every aspect of your life.

    Thats just my experience with it though, and im not sure how well anyone else will react to it.
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  3. Despite the positive responses above to using nicotine for cutting, I'd urge caution in respects to other aspects of the bodybuilding lifestyle and/or being a male. I've previously read about nicotine's affects on fertility so I decided to do a PubMed search on "nicotine AND testosterone." Fifty hits came up and the highlights were:
    • Increase in prolactin. Some bros on this board are already taking AAS that increases prolactin so nicotine may be throwing fuel on the proverbial fire in regards to prolactin induced gyno (debatable topic).
    • Affects on libido. Most of us on this board are male so this should be of concern.
    • The combination of no libido, decreased sperm count, and consequently no fertility. Some of the bros on this board are trying to start families so using nicotine for cutting could have an impact on starting a family.
    • smoking leads to a secretory dysfunction of the Leydig cells. Some bros on this board are already taking AAS that affects the HPTA axis so once again nicotine may be throwing fuel on the proverbial fire.
    • Significant decrease in testosterone response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Some bros on this board are taking hCG during or after their AAS cycle so cutting with nicotine could be hurting their recovery.


    ~Todd
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    Effects of intravenous cocaine and cigarette smoking on luteinizing hormone, testosterone, and prolactin in men.

    Mendelson JH, Sholar MB, Mutschler NH, Jaszyna-Gasior M, Goletiani NV, Siegel AJ, Mello NK.

    Alcohol and Drug Abuse Research Center, Harvard Medical School/McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA 02478, USA. [email protected]

    Cocaine and nicotine have a number of similar behavioral and neurobiological effects. This study compared the acute effects of cocaine and cigarette smoking on luteinizing hormone (LH), testosterone (T), and prolactin. Twenty-four men who met American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual criteria for cocaine abuse or nicotine dependence were given intravenous cocaine (0.4 mg/kg) or placebo-cocaine, or smoked a low or high nicotine cigarette under controlled conditions. Placebo-cocaine or low nicotine cigarette smoking did not change LH, T, or prolactin. Peak plasma levels of 254 +/- 18 ng cocaine/ml and 22.6 +/- 3.4 ng nicotine/ml were measured at 8 and 14 min, respectively. LH increased significantly after both i.v. cocaine and high nicotine cigarette smoking (P < 0.01). These LH increases were significantly correlated with increases in cocaine and nicotine plasma levels (P < 0.001-0.003), and high nicotine cigarette smoking stimulated significantly greater increases in LH release than i.v. cocaine (P < 0.05). Testosterone levels did not change significantly after either cocaine or after high nicotine cigarette smoking. After i.v. cocaine, prolactin decreased significantly and remained below baseline levels throughout the sampling period (P < 0.05-0.01). After high nicotine cigarette smoking, prolactin increased to hyperpro-lactinemic levels within 6 min and remained significantly above baseline levels for 42 min (P < 0.05-0.03). The rapid increases in LH and reports of subjective "high" after both i.v. cocaine and high nicotine cigarette smoking illustrate the similarities between these drugs and suggest a possible contribution of LH to their abuse-related effects.

    Publication Types:
     Clinical Trial
     Controlled Clinical Trial

    PMID: 12893845 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats.

    Dhawan K, Sharma A.

    Pharmacognosy Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab University, - 160014, Chandigarh, India. [email protected]

    Excessive long term consumption of alcohol and nicotine have serious detrimental effects upon the libido, fertility, and sperm count in male species. The present work describes the beneficial effects of a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety (BZF) isolated from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus, the phyto-chemical isolation, spectroscopic elucidation, and multifarious biological activities of which have recently been reported by the authors. The BZF moiety has been reported to increase libido, sperm count, and sexual fertility in 2 years old male rats at 10 mg/kg, po dose, in the one of our previous studies. Presently, the BZF moiety has been evaluated against chronic ethanol- and nicotine-induced decrease in libido, sexual fertility and mating efficiency in healthy male rats. The male rats were given ethanol (3 g/kg, po) A, nicotine (2 mg/kg, sc) N, alcohol-nicotine combinations (AN) alone, and also with 10 mg/kg po dose of BZF (concurrent administrations). These treatments were given for 30 days. At the end of treatments, it was observed that rat groups A, N, and AN had no libido (evaluated by mounting behaviour), declined sperm count, and consequently no mating efficiency or fertility (upon pairing with pro-estrus female rats). However, the rats which were given 10 mg/kg BZF along-with nicotine (NP group), alcohol (AP group), and alcohol-nicotine combination (ANP) exhibited significant libido-oriented mounting behaviour, increased sperm count (significantly comparable to the control group), and increased fertilization potential. The rats having decreased sperm count, libido and fertilization potential due to chronic administration of alcohol, nicotine and alcohol-nicotine combinations, i.e., rats of A, N, and AN groups were again subdivided and were given 10 mg/kg BZF for 7 days. This treatment confirmed that BZF speeds up the restoration of sexuality in rats upon cessation of the administration of substances like alcohol, nicotine and alcohol-nicotine combinations, which have severe detrimental effects upon male sexuality, fertility and vigour. BZF, the strongest inhibitor of aromatase enzyme, when administered concurrently with substances like alcohol and nicotine restores sexual virility, libido and vigour in male rats by maintaining the blood-testosterone levels to be high.

    PMID: 12408873 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Comment: this abstract may be out of context since it's discussing chronic administration of nicotine and cutting with nicotine is approximately equivalent to one cigarette. Therefore, this abstract was not quoted in highlights, but thought it was good to see some of the problems highlighted by chronic administration

    Nicotine administration induced changes in the gonadal functions in male rats.

    Kavitharaj NK, Vijayammal PL.

    Department of Biochemistry, University of Kerala, Karyavattom, Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, India.

    Nicotine is reported to have toxic effects on gonadal functions, in addition to its established role in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and lung cancer. So nicotine-induced biochemical changes were studied in liver and testes. Chronic administration of nicotine was found to produce enhanced synthesis of cholesterol, triglycerides, phospholipids and free fatty acids in the liver and testes. The activity of the lipogenic enzymes was high in liver but unaltered in testes. The testosterone and estradiol levels in the serum were lower. As the changes brought about by chronic administration of nicotine were counteracted by mecamylamine, a known inhibitor of nicotine, it was proven that nicotine is having a specific gonadotoxic effect.

    PMID: 9831825 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Effects of smoking on testicular function and fertilizing potential in rats.

    Yamamoto Y, Isoyama E, Sofikitis N, Miyagawa I.

    Department of Urology, Tottori University School of Medicine, Yonago, Japan.

    We evaluated the effects of smoking on testicular function and fertilizing potential in rats. Twenty rats (group A) were exposed to the smoke of 20 cigarettes for 1 h per day. Ten rats (group B) were exposed to the smoke of 40 incense sticks for 1 h per day, and an additional 10 rats served as a control group (group C). After 10 weeks of daily exposure, serum levels of nicotine and cotinine were assessed, and a mating test was conducted. Five days later, serum concentrations of testosterone before and after human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) stimulation, gonadotropins, and epididymal sperm content and motility were evaluated. In addition, in vitro fertilization was carried out. Nicotine and cotinine were detected in group A, but not in groups B and C. Basal serum testosterone and gonadotropin concentrations did not differ significantly among the three groups, but the testosterone response to hCG stimulation was significantly lower in group A than in groups B and C. Group A showed significant reductions in epididymal sperm content and motility, and in fertility in vivo and in vitro. These findings suggest that smoking leads to a secretory dysfunction of the Leydig cells, and also a deficiency in sperm maturation and spermatogenesis. In addition, smoking has a detrimental effect on sperm fertilizing potentials in vivo and in vitro.

    PMID: 9537696 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Inhibitory role of cholinergic agonists on testosterone secretion by purified rat Leydig cells.

    Favaretto AL, Valenca MM, Picanco-Diniz DL, Antunes-Rodrigues JA.

    Department of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine of Ribeiro Preto, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

    The effects of cholinometics on basal or hCG-induced testosterone (T) release by Percoll-purified Leydig cells of the rat were studied. Acetylcholine and carbachol as well as nicotine decreased basal and hCG-induced T secretion. The ganglionic nicotine antagonist hexamethonium promoted a partial reversal of the inhibitory effect of nicotine on basal or hCG-stimulated T secretion. Atropine also reduced the inhibitory effect of carbachol on basal or stimulated androgen release. These data indicate that, in short-term incubations, testosterone released by purified Leydig cells is inhibited by nicotinic and muscarinic cholinergic agonists, thus supporting the hypothesis that parasympathetic autonomic system may be involved in the negative regulation of testicular androgen secretion.

    PMID: 7511424 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Nicotine and cotinine inhibit steroidogenesis in mouse Leydig cells.

    Patterson TR, Stringham JD, Meikle AW.

    Department of Internal Medicine, University of Utah School of Medicine, Salt Lake City 84132.

    Cigarette smoking alters plasma testosterone concentrations in men. The objectives of this study were to determine if nicotine and cotinine, two alkaloid products of cigarettes, affect luteinizing hormone(LH)-stimulated steroidogenesis in isolated adult mouse Leydig cells. Leydig cells from adult Swiss-Webster mice were isolated by linear density gradient and incubated (95% O2, 5% CO2) in minimum essential medium at 37 C for 3 hours with LH (10 ng) and with or without nicotine or cotinine (10(-5)-10(-7) M). Both nicotine and cotinine produced dose response inhibition (P less than 0.05) of LH-stimulated testosterone production (50-70%). The addition of 8-bromo-3',5'-cyclic monophosphate (cAMP, 500 uM) stimulated steroidogenesis comparable to LH in the absence of the alkaloids, but both nicotine and cotinine significantly (P less than 0.05) reduced testosterone production in response to cAMP, suggesting that the alkaloids inhibit testosterone production in response to LH distal to the formation of cAMP. In MEM without calcium, LH-stimulated testosterone synthesis was decreased, and neither nicotine nor cotinine significantly affected steroidogenesis. The addition of a calcium ionophore in MEM with normal calcium content enhanced (P less than 0.05) the inhibitory effects of nicotine and cotinine on LH-responsive steroidogenesis. A calcium channel blocking agent, verapamil, at 10uM significantly (P less than 0.05) reversed the inhibition of LH-stimulated testosterone production produced by both alkaloids when incubated in the medium with a normal calcium concentration. These results suggest that nicotine and cotinine either affect intracellular calcium content or block the effects of calcium on steroidogenesis in mouse Leydig cells.

    PMID: 2154652 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Nicotine and cotinine inhibit rat testis androgen biosynthesis in vitro.

    Yeh J, Barbieri RL, Friedman AJ.

    Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115.

    The effects of nicotine and cotinine, the major metabolite of nicotine, on testosterone production in rat testis were investigated. Rat Leydig cells were isolated and incubated with nicotine and cotinine. Nicotine produced a dose dependent increase in progesterone levels and a dose-dependent decrease in androstenedione and testosterone concentrations. Cotinine produced a dose-dependent increase in progesterone and androstenedione and a dose-dependent decrease in testosterone levels. The effects of nicotine and cotinine on rat testis mitochondrial cholesterol side chain cleavage enzyme and microsomal 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-isomerase, 17 alpha-hydroxylase, 17,20-lyase and 17-ketosteroid reductase were examined. Nicotine competitively inhibited 17 alpha-hydroxylase (apparent Ki = 30 microM) and 17,20-lyase (apparent Ki = 18 microM). Cotinine competitively inhibited 17-ketosteroid reductase (apparent Ki = 46 microM). The addition of nicotine to preparations of rat testis microsomes yielded a Type II cytochrome P-450 binding spectrum. We conclude that nicotine and cotinine competitively inhibit multiple steps in testosterone biosynthesis.

    PMID: 2811374 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  4. Most of those studies either use smoking as a way to administer nicotine, oh use reidiculous doses (2mg per kg, thats almost 200mgs of nicotine for a 200lb man!)

  5. Whats the average price of the gum and how much would you average for some who is 190-200lbs?
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  6. I got mine on ebay, do a search there and you'll save yourself some cash versus, buying it at the drugstore

  7. I've used nicotine gum and liked it. I quit smoking 6 years ago, so I'm really careful with it. I won't take it more than 3 weeks at a time. I'm not going to say I don't enjoy the gum, but I didn't have any problems stopping.

    intv, i quit 4 years ago and it was the hardest thing i've ever had to do. i'm 39 now & started when i was 12 or 13. i couldn't remember life without smoking!!

    i've also NEVER had a weight problem until i quit either. now i have to be VERY particular with diet.

    so you don't feel like going back to smoking while having the nicotine gum? my biggest fear.

    i'm definately going to give the gum a try. any other ex-smokers here?

    Jag

  8. Quote Originally Posted by theprolangtum
    Most of those studies either use smoking as a way to administer nicotine, oh use reidiculous doses (2mg per kg, thats almost 200mgs of nicotine for a 200lb man!)

    actualy its 421mg for 200lb man.....1 kg = 2.205 lb

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    I've used nicotine gum and liked it. I quit smoking 6 years ago, so I'm really careful with it. I won't take it more than 3 weeks at a time. I'm not going to say I don't enjoy the gum, but I didn't have any problems stopping.

    intv, i quit 4 years ago and it was the hardest thing i've ever had to do. i'm 39 now & started when i was 12 or 13. i couldn't remember life without smoking!!

    i've also NEVER had a weight problem until i quit either. now i have to be VERY particular with diet.

    so you don't feel like going back to smoking while having the nicotine gum? my biggest fear.

    i'm definately going to give the gum a try. any other ex-smokers here?

    Jag
    I really haven't had a problem with craving cigs while on the gum - it's such a slow release. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't enjoy the gum to a degree, but I don't get cravings for the gum, in fact, I have to remind myself to chew it. When cutting, I try to cycle it 2 wks on/2 off. The first couple of days after I drop the gum, my appetite is much higher, but it levels off quickly.

    I also gained a lot weight after I quit, it was almost like my body type changed. Of course, getting older didn't help either. Give the gum a try, just for a couple of weeks. If you get cravings, or if it's hard to quit, you may want to drop it as it's not worth going back to smoking.

  10. intv,
    i'd never go back to smoking. my body felt like it changed as well from a ecto/meso to an endo/meso but like you said, getting older could have something to do with that as well.

    i never crave smoking anymore but my appetite is way out of control and i'm always using an ECA or some appetite suppressant.

    never even thought about nicotine gum but i remember when i first gave up i used the patches which made me very hyper & my appetite was still under control. i might try the gum for a cuppla weeks.

    thanks for your reply.

    Jag

  11. has anyone ever ACTUALLY used nicotine gum as part of thier diet/supp program?

    If so, please share your experience.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by BigBuddyBoy
    has anyone ever ACTUALLY used nicotine gum as part of thier diet/supp program?

    If so, please share your experience.

    can't say much at the moment but i did get some 2mg gum and been using it twice a day with an ECA stack (ECA only on training days) and my appetite has gone.

    i'm an extremely big eater and usually thinking of my next meal when i'm halfway through the one i'm eating.

    i got 2 weeks worth so i'll see what happens then. currently i'm quite happy though.

    Jag

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    i'm an extremely big eater and usually thinking of my next meal when i'm halfway through the one i'm eating.
    LOL, that's the spirit....

    BBB, like I and others have said, we use it for a short cycle, say 4-5 weeks or so and then come off. It makes it easier to not get addicted that way among other negative health concerns. I haven't actually used the gum yet, I have some sitting around, will have to check the exp. date on it, but the patches and my Skoal seem to do the trick.

  14. I can't seem to get used to the gum, I got the 2mg size and I chew it as slow as possible and it still makes me nauseous, I used to smoke too, so I know I can handle the nicotine, what gives..........

  15. Quote Originally Posted by goes4ever
    I can't seem to get used to the gum, I got the 2mg size and I chew it as slow as possible and it still makes me nauseous, I used to smoke too, so I know I can handle the nicotine, what gives..........
    I feel you on that too. I used to smoke before and the first time I used the patch it was causing TOO much appetite supression along with the nausea, etc. I might try to chew it a couple times and then maybe take it out of your mouth and put it somewhere until you can wait it out and make sure you aren't going to get nauseated, then just repeat....

  16. well I chew it a few times then park it in the cheek of my mouth like the instructions say, but everytime I try it within like 5-7 minutes the nausea sets in

  17. i've used nicotine gum, 4 mg pieces (half at a time 5-6 times a day). subjective feedback:

    1) at first it can act as a mild stimulant, but this disappears soon enough
    2) curbs appetite, this may be good or bad depending on your goals (this is the biggest benefit of nicotine in my opinion if your are cutting)
    3) made me feel sick when i started taking piracetam (for me the two don't mix)
    4) may have other positive and negative effects for mind and body, but overall i would not consider nicotine use healthy (even in gum form)

    -5

  18. Perhaps you could try splitting the 2mg pieces in half until you build a tolerance for the nicotine. Another tip is to avoid swallowing your saliva while chewing the gum, I think that can cause nausea for many users.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by max silver
    Perhaps you could try splitting the 2mg pieces in half until you build a tolerance for the nicotine. Another tip is to avoid swallowing your saliva while chewing the gum, I think that can cause nausea for many users.
    well it is weird because I just quit smoking this year and I never got nausea feelings when I smoked, so what is the difference?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by BigBuddyBoy
    has anyone ever ACTUALLY used nicotine gum as part of thier diet/supp program?

    If so, please share your experience.

    When coupled with EC, it is the single most effective cutting stack i could reccomend.

    No hunger, tons of energy, no cravings for sweets, high overall feeling of well being.

    It makes me enjoy cutting.
  21. Hmn


    All the people I know that have trained with me seem to think its common knowlegde that smoking has a near disolving effect on muscles!! I think it appeared on a UK documentary a number of years ago. Has anyone else heard about this??

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Assertive_guy
    All the people I know that have trained with me seem to think its common knowlegde that smoking has a near disolving effect on muscles!! I think it appeared on a UK documentary a number of years ago. Has anyone else heard about this??

    Disolving effect on muscles?

    Oh dear god.

    Nicotine is phenomenal for keeping muscle on a cut.

    I don't feel like finding the link, but go over to www.mindandmuscle.com and in the previous issues there is an article on nicotine.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Assertive_guy
    All the people I know that have trained with me seem to think its common knowlegde that smoking has a near disolving effect on muscles!! I think it appeared on a UK documentary a number of years ago. Has anyone else heard about this??

    That's rediculous.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Lonny
    Disolving effect on muscles?

    Oh dear god.

    Nicotine is phenomenal for keeping muscle on a cut.

    I don't feel like finding the link, but go over to www.mindandmuscle.com and in the previous issues there is an article on nicotine.
    Lonny,

    how do you open that link? all i get is a birds-eye view of a guy with his arms crossed

    Jag

  25. Here, try this link.

    http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php

    Look up in the upper left corner and look through the back issues of the Online Magazine. I believe the name of the article was "Chemically Correct: Nicotine", but I may be off on this.

    MindandMuscle and Avantlabs are basically one and the same.
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