- 02-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Guys I don't believe anyone's personal experiences of taking products due to the placebo effect. I want to see a clinical trial containing a jadad score of 4 or better that supports a memory enhancement supplement and I’ll change my mind about memory enhancement supplements.
Granted, there has been studies that state there may be a correlation between improvement due to supplementation, but the correlation is weak. Significant, silver-bullet studies have not been reported.
Ironaddict, what's the jadad on that Australian study? Also, I'm not going to believe an article posted on piracetam.com which is linked to a supplement selling company.... Obviously they will state positive results from their supplements, they're selling the product. Power of the internet is weak at times because companies try to sell their product.
I am interested to see a clinical trial from a medical database supporting supplementation of phosphatidyl-serine, ginko biloba(any part of the plant), inositol, or choline. I don't mind if I am proven wrong. I like to learn about new information based on legitimate, clinical trails. I think I can speak for everyone; I would rather not waste my money on supplements if they don’t work.
The general consensus from my professors was that "no supplement can be taken to enhance memory." I believe University of Florida hires extremely knowledgeable professors.
I took phoshatidyl-serine as a personal experiment while I was dieting for a show. At 150mg a day, I did not see an enhancement in memory. I barely remember how I cut the last week before the show.
- 02-08-2009, 08:35 AM
That is very surprising to me. I'm not calling you a liar by any means...but phosphatidylserine has worked very well for me in this respect and that is one study not linked to any sales for anyone.
Maybe because you use 150mg a day and I am using 1000mg a day. Please also remember that not all supplement companies are created equal. I've used a product from one company and gotten zero results and then the same product by another company with a great deal of change.
02-08-2009, 09:00 AM
I base most of my belief in a supp etc. on 1st hand experiences from people I have faith in. Lecethin has worked wonders for me in the past. Although it takes several months to receive noticable benefits and the benefits are usually in hindsight because one gets used to the improvements & feels they are the norm.
02-08-2009, 11:32 AM
As per SpicyTuna's request, I just dug up some research on some of these nootropics. I hate being the pubmed ninja as it doesn't give me the raw data or an in-depth look at the methods (especially statistical methods). Lastly, I'll just say that a controlled, clinical trial would be convenient, wouldn't it? A peer-reviewed one might be even better, or so I've been told (having an expert making sure it's not BS). Before you delve into the great abstractness of the entrez database, remember the wise words of Galileo: "Something which cannot be measured cannot exist." Tell me how the hell someone accurately measures memory, and I'll tell you how to test for it. Afterall, do you really think the children's flip card is the same thing as studying for an exam, remembering what's on your grocery list, riding a bicycle for the first time in 10 years, or what day your girlfriends birthday is on?
PC, I didn't see any human trials, but then again with the extensive research done, signing the waiver to participate would be signing your life over (literally) because they killed them and examined their brains. Acetylcholine is a major neurotransmitter, which is associated with such functions as learning, memory, and your ability to move. Consuming a choline salt or a PC, it will lose its anion/cholesterol tail and become acetylated to form acetylcholine. Hence, it's not to surprising to see how (pending Ach levels) a choline supplement could provide benefits to
Gingko Biloba. Seems to be a mix of results, but I'm not surprised. In the medical community, there's not a whole lot of control in experiments like these. Could be due to coincidentally responsive experimental groups to either the gingko or a placebo effect. Could be due to various extracts (i.e. not getting enough of the correct terpenoid) or could be due to ineffective dosing.
Lastly, I found this. I suppose one might take with a grain of salt, as the person who wrote it apparently doesn't see a difference between Gotu Kola and Kola Nut (two plants of different genus as well as continent of origin).
02-08-2009, 03:48 PM
Nutrition professors at colleges are notoriously conservative, most probably still believe in the ole food pyramid and the over 30 grams of protein(your body can't process myth) they still propogate.
02-09-2009, 07:28 AM
02-10-2009, 09:54 AM
good point CTDuece, there are some variables in self-experimentation.
Lucky, I believe in studies because they are controlled (as much as they can possibly be). Clinical studies are "graded" on how well they are conducted by their jadad score. That's why I asked for a study of 4 or better; which is a good score. Scoring ranges from some negative number to 5. I don't read those crazy "studies" advertised in magazines that sell their product. Those things are ridic.
Thesinner, thanks for the studies. I’ll check em' out when I get a chance. Maybe you can change my view.
supplementpimp(?? lol), You're right, professors are conservative because they are in no position to be radical. My Mans Food Prof. said 10% of DV should come from protein... yeahhhh riiiiiight. But, this particular professor I had gave great lectures, I trusted his opinion, he was a former Olympiad.
02-10-2009, 10:36 AM
i'd start with fish oil and ginko...focus factor mentioned above has just about everything in it, including huperzine-a which i have only seen mentioned once.
but i believe the PS is under dosed
02-13-2009, 07:47 PM
02-13-2009, 09:09 PM
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