Request assistance - someone with Ultra 40 and a scale

[dsade]

Ok...first the disclaimer - this is NOT an official "labelclaimstesting" type callout, just a concern.

First - a recent thread revived my interest in Liver Tabs - especially in light of an obscure study that seems to point to usefulness in preventing DNP side effects.

Second - I have always considered Beverly product of exquisite quality, so I dropped $40 on a bottle today.

Third, I located a supplier that handles supply for the entire industry, and priced out material for whoeever decides to run with them (nutracaps, or whoever). When doing the cost analysis something wasn't ringing true.

Now, Beverly claims 2.6 grams of 4x liver concentrate per tablet. I would have thought them to be VERY dark brown, and was surprised to see them very very light brown with little discernible odor. IN addition, that tablets were not very big. I proceeded to weigh them on, admittedly, not a high quality scale. I read 3 tablets per 5 grams, or 1.7 grams each.

I double checked with another scale at home, and got the same reading.

Can someone with a decent scale AND a recent bottle of Ultra 40 please weigh a tablet and tell me what you get?

 

[Colin]

I do have a decent scale but no on the liver tabs.That said,I can't be of any help but I'd appreciate it if you'd post the study you're referring to here.

Ok...first the disclaimer - this is NOT an official "labelclaimstesting" type callout, just a concern.

First - a recent thread revived my interest in Liver Tabs - especially in light of an obscure study that seems to point to usefulness in preventing DNP side effects.

Second - I have always considered Beverly product of exquisite quality, so I dropped $40 on a bottle today.

Third, I located a supplier that handles supply for the entire industry, and priced out material for whoeever decides to run with them (nutracaps, or whoever). When doing the cost analysis something wasn't ringing true.

Now, Beverly claims 2.6 grams of 4x liver concentrate per tablet. I would have thought them to be VERY dark brown, and was surprised to see them very very light brown with little discernible odor. IN addition, that tablets were not very big. I proceeded to weigh them on, admittedly, not a high quality scale. I read 3 tablets per 5 grams, or 1.7 grams each.

I double checked with another scale at home, and got the same reading.

Can someone with a decent scale AND a recent bottle of Ultra 40 please weigh a tablet and tell me what you get?

 

[dsade]

I do have a decent scale but no on the liver tabs.That said,I can't be of any help but I'd appreciate it if you'd post the study you're referring to here.

How did I figure I would see you here?

I'd actually like to get your take on this - I'm thinking about running an experiment VERY soon..

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/42/2/271.pdf

 

[Aeternitatis]

I'd be happy to weigh some if I were comped a bottle.
I do this sometimes. For example, the body octane scooper is a little low and the Clout scooper a little high.

My scale hits 0.0mg

 

[Vitruvian]

Dsade,

Have you emailed Beverly directly with this concern? They are usually refreshingly honest with replies, so it would be nice to hear their side of the story.

Better yet, Roger and Sandy will be at the AC..... quiz them there too. lol

 

[dsade]

Dsade,

Have you emailed Beverly directly with this concern? They are usually refreshingly honest with replies, so it would be nice to hear their side of the story.

Better yet, Roger and Sandy will be at the AC..... quiz them there too. lol

FIRst I wanted someone to verifiy with a better quality scale before going any further - especially since, in this case, I would be considered a competitor.

 

[Steveoph]

FIRst I wanted someone to verifiy with a better quality scale before going any further - especially since, in this case, I would be considered a competitor.

I know snagency uses them, Ill direct him over here.

 

[snagency]

Interesting take Dsade. I think you're being too literal tho..
Let me venture: the liver value=2600mcg (AS a 4x concentrate). Trying to weigh true weight, this will not equate to 2.6g, will be considerably less..
As well, you have to take into consideration the other packaged ingredients to put this together (i.e. Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide -- fillers if you will, but necessary for production & preservation).
Lastly, consider that Bev uses their own manufacturing facilities; these are not your run-of-the-mill liver tabs. I don't think an 'industry' insider could give you a qualified opinion to their sourcings.
But as mentioned, Roger & Sandy are pretty helpful; I'm sure Roger would have no problem clarifying this.
Send him an e-mail.

 

[EasyEJL]

Although not totally related, i found a study that showed Usnic Acid to be hepaprotective against damage done by alchohol administered at the same time, so I can definitely understand the point of the study in the PDF.

 

[snagency]

Since this is a thread on U-40, thought I'd throw this out for clarification: (just in case anybody wondered why else they should take liver tabs.. )

Ultra 40 liver tablets are designed for the hard training athlete who demands NOTHING BUT THE BEST! Although Ultra 40 retains the biochemical spirit of the original, its nutritional value is greater than that of whole beef liver. All of the essential amino acids are present in Ultra 40 as well as B-vitamins, heme iron, naturally occurring minerals and enzymes.

What: Ultra 40 is a nutrient dense protein food (in tablet form) derived from raw Argentinean beef liver that is concentrated by vacuum drying at a low temperature. It is free of fats, carbohydrates, and any food additives.

Who: Anyone who wants to increase lean body mass, people who want more energy, anyone on a restricted diet, as well as those who are clinically stressed.

Why: Ultra 40 comes from grass fed, steroid free Argentinean beef and is the most potent liver product on the market. The concentration process removes unwanted calories and the addition of B-12 enhances protein metabolism.

 

[dsade]

Since this is a thread on U-40, thought I'd throw this out for clarification: (just in case anybody wondered why else they should take liver tabs.. )

Ultra 40 liver tablets are designed for the hard training athlete who demands NOTHING BUT THE BEST! Although Ultra 40 retains the biochemical spirit of the original, its nutritional value is greater than that of whole beef liver. All of the essential amino acids are present in Ultra 40 as well as B-vitamins, heme iron, naturally occurring minerals and enzymes.

What: Ultra 40 is a nutrient dense protein food (in tablet form) derived from raw Argentinean beef liver that is concentrated by vacuum drying at a low temperature. It is free of fats, carbohydrates, and any food additives.

Who: Anyone who wants to increase lean body mass, people who want more energy, anyone on a restricted diet, as well as those who are clinically stressed.

Why: Ultra 40 comes from grass fed, steroid free Argentinean beef and is the most potent liver product on the market. The concentration process removes unwanted calories and the addition of B-12 enhances protein metabolism.

Oh, don't get me wrong at all - Liver Tabs is one product that I did notice a certain edge from - which is why the sudden re-interest.

What I am wondering about is the label (and I just actually wanted someone with a decent scale to verify weight)...

The label says Dessicated Liver extract 4x concentrate 2600mg.

This means 2600 mg (or 2.6 grams) of whatever extract they are using. Add in the binders and fillers, to make the tablets stick together, and the actual tablet weight SHOULD be close to 3 grams. I am getting about 1.7 grams each.

 

[SoCo4Fun]

snag,

How many tabs do you take a day?

 

[Steveoph]

Steroid free beef? Aw... but I wanted the roids

Snag you make a great sales pitch; your commentary on the rival liver tabs got me to hold out for the Ultra-40's (Which were OOS at the time).

 

[dsade]

Steroid free beef? Aw... but I wanted the roids

Snag you make a great sales pitch; your commentary on the rival liver tabs got me to hold out for the Ultra-40's (Which were OOS at the time).

I started on them yesterday, at 20 a day....I'll gauge results here, too.

Hoping to play with that other compound mentioned above, to see what kind of validity the study has in humans (subjectively, of course).

 

[snagency]

The label says Dessicated Liver extract 4x concentrate 2600mg.

This means 2600 mg (or 2.6 grams) of whatever extract they are using. Add in the binders and fillers, to make the tablets stick together, and the actual tablet weight SHOULD be close to 3 grams. I am getting about 1.7 grams each.

But that's where I'll disagree with you (and maybe I'm wrong here), but consider.. The way I read it is: 2600mcg liver AS a 4xconcentrate; so, going with your logic, I would see this as 650mcg true weight, no?
Altho, according to your scales, this would leave approx. 1g filler weight.. you're not using your weed scales, are you? :lol:

 

[snagency]

snag,

How many tabs do you take a day?

When in caloric deficit (like now), 5 per meal (x6 meals daily); when it gets tighter, I up that to 6.

 

[dsade]

But that's where I'll disagree with you (and maybe I'm wrong here), but consider.. The way I read it is: 2600mcg liver AS a 4xconcentrate; so, going with your logic, I would see this as 650mcg true weight, no?
Altho, according to your scales, this would leave approx. 1g filler weight.. you're not using your weed scales, are you? :lol:

Should be mg, not micrograms...but the way I see it they have to indicate the true product weight (which would be 2600mg of "X excract".) If they meant is as a 4x concentrate, where a 1x concentrate WOULD be 2.6 grams (2.6 divided by 4 = 650mg, true) then they should have put 650mg OF 4x concentrate.

And yeah, the purpose of this thread is to have someone with a GOOD ACCURATE scale do a confirmation weigh for me.

 

[EasyEJL]

it says it provides over 2g of protein....

 

[snagency]

Should be mg, not micrograms...but the way I see it they have to indicate the true product weight (which would be 2600mg of "X excract".) If they meant is as a 4x concentrate, where a 1x concentrate WOULD be 2.6 grams (2.6 divided by 4 = 650mg, true) then they should have put 650mg OF 4x concentrate.

And yeah, the purpose of this thread is to have someone with a GOOD ACCURATE scale do a confirmation weigh for me.

Well therein lies the problem bro: the ingredients are mcg, not mg.
That'll throw things off a tad.. :think:

 

[EasyEJL]

Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Tablet:
% Daily Value

Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin)
75mcg.

1,250%

Liver ( as 4x concentrate)
2600mg.

**

Other Ingredients:
Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate, Silicone Dioxide

...

 

[dsade]

Well therein lies the problem bro: the ingredients are mcg, not mg.
That'll throw things off a tad.. :think:

Might want to check that again..the only thing mcg is the added Cyanocobalamin (at 75mcg)

Right from the label:

Liver (as 4x concentrate) 2600MG.

Serving size: 1 tablet

 

[snagency]

Here's what I was looking at (altho your label does sound right; I'll check for sure right now.. :run
500 Tablets
Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Tablet
Servings Per Container500

Amount Per 1 Tablet

Vitamin B12(as Cyanocobalamin) 75mcg 1,250%

Liver(as 4x Concentrate) 2600mcg **

* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet
** Daily Value not established

Other Ingredients
Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide

 

[dsade]

2600mcg would only be 260mg....these are way too big for that (or they used a godawful amount of filler.)

 

[snagency]

But of course you're right on the label..
That'll learn me to use that website for reference.. :nono:

I still say it's as 4x concentrate, not 2600mg of 4x concentrate.
But I see your point. I do not have an accurate enough scale to help you or I would, as I've got the bottle sitting right in front of me..

 

[snagency]

2600mcg would only be 260mg....these are way too big for that (or they used a godawful amount of filler.)

My math skills are frayed tonight.. :laugh:
We both know Bev's not 'fillers-r-us' bro..

 

[dsade]

But of course you're right on the label..
That'll learn me to use that website for reference.. :nono:

I still say it's as 4x concentrate, not 2600mg of 4x concentrate.
But I see your point. I do not have an accurate enough scale to help you or I would, as I've got the bottle sitting right in front of me..

What a tease....

 

[snagency]

What a tease....

Gave up my digi's bro..

 

[dsade]

Gave up my digi's bro..

::::whistles innocently:::

why, sir...I have NO idea what you are referring to.

 

[EasyEJL]

if nothing else, you bastards have convinced me to buy a bottle during NP's free shipping

 

[snagency]

::::whistles innocently:::

why, sir...I have NO idea what you are referring to.

:ntome:

 

[snagency]

if nothing else, you bastards have convinced me to buy a bottle during NP's free shipping

Can't go wrong there man. One of the single best basic supps I could recommend to somebody. Seriously.

 

[EasyEJL]

Just as a question, does anyone see a big difference between beverly and Universal's liver tabs?

 

[snagency]

Just as a question, does anyone see a big difference between beverly and Universal's liver tabs?

:jaw: ..you didn't just say that Easy, did you?
HYOOOOGE difference. The amount of liver vs. Bev's is miniscule; they use a cheap whey filler for the bulk of their protein content. Hence, the reason behind the pricing disparity..
I won't even mention the fact that, on 2 different occasions, I crapped the Uniliver's out partially dissolved. (oooops, I mentioned it..)
Only supp I've ever had this problem with..

 

[Jayhawkk]

I've never had a problem with their liver tabs coming out partially dissolved but didn't know they used a whey filler.

 

[snagency]

Sure. Note they do not specify the actual amount of liver (and this is not a concentrate form); second ingredient is whey - a significant portion of the protein content..
The majority of ppl will absorb the horse pill just fine (tho I have come across others with this same issue). Just sharing a personal experience..

 

[EasyEJL]

:jaw: ..you didn't just say that Easy, did you?
HYOOOOGE difference. The amount of liver vs. Bev's is miniscule; they use a cheap whey filler for the bulk of their protein content. Hence, the reason behind the pricing disparity..
I won't even mention the fact that, on 2 different occasions, I crapped the Uniliver's out partially dissolved. (oooops, I mentioned it..)
Only supp I've ever had this problem with..

thats actually sort of what I was thinking

 

[crader]

I like the Beverly liver tabs, however I really have issues with the size of them. It is impossible for me to get the amount I need down because they trigger my gag reflex. So I try to do 2 of them several times throughout the day.

 

[snagency]

I like the Beverly liver tabs, however I really have issues with the size of them. It is impossible for me to get the amount I need down because they trigger my gag reflex. So I try to do 2 of them several times throughout the day.

Ultra-40's?? Those things are tiny!!
I'd hate to see you attempt the Universal UniLiver then.. :18:

 

[Colin]

How did I figure I would see you here?

I'd actually like to get your take on this - I'm thinking about running an experiment VERY soon..

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/42/2/271.pdf

Eh...because you know I'm an obsessive wanker who hearts ingesting dangerous chemicals :lol:

Self deprecation aside,I think the potential liver toxicity of DNP is greatly over stated.I don't have any supporting references for this assertion on hand but Conciliator has posted several studies indicating this to be the case.He went so far as to say that milk thistle is not needed.I'm not inclined to agree with dropping milk thistle,it's good stuff IMHO for general health,for those who...ehhh drink alcohol in moderate amounts while using DNP.My days of PH and AAS usage are over (it just got old) but if I were still on the AAS bandwagon whilst drinking a smaller amount of alcohol (an Irshman isn't any good if he can't imbibe Guinness somewhat regularly,we all know this)and using DNP,liver tabs would be included.

Apologies for the broscience-esque anecdotal feedback but anyway...

A friend/co-worker of mine starting messing around with lifting/juicing last year with pretty much no idea what he was doing.He was running a very liver toxic oral AAS at the higher end of dosing protocols.Which I can't remember the name of but I researched it and confirmed it to be the harshest oral on the market.He was drinking heavily and taking recreational de-rugz like oxy's,methodone and what not.We were talking about lifting or whatever and he mentioned he wasn't even taking milk thistle and thought drinking V8 and what not to be adequate precautions.He went on to say he was feeling very intense pain around his kidneys/gut a bit after he started on the AAS.So I gave him some milk thistle and Sesathin gelcaps I had and threw him a pre-paid CBC blood test (Steve Sliwa generously hooked me up with 4 of these for feedback on LEF's Hepatopo on cycle)
Jay Edit: I'm sure he's a great guy but he's not the board sponsor

After around a week and a half on sesa and milk thistle the pain was still there and progressing,yet he continued on with the fun stuff + AAS.So I gave him some dessicated liver tabs I received in a supplement trade as a bonus.I wouldnlt have thought to suggest them to this guy if I didn;t have them lying around,I figured if sesa+milk thistle didn't do the trick,it was either press onward for another few weeks and visit the ER or wisely drop the AAS.After several days of using liver tabs the very intense liver/kidney pain was dealt with so this long winded anecdotal tale indicates the efficacy of liver tabs on treating liver and kidney disorders.He did wise up and wrap up the cycle shortly thereafter,in good health.

I was suckered into the notion of liver tabs being a staple supplement when I first got into lifting around 10 years ago and have only bought them once.I think they have no practical application towards athletes who do not use AAS and really are not a staple supplement,they are on a par with the validity of leucine supplementation IMHO,but I digress.For juicers,they're not a bad move though.

For the record and as I consider myself to be A MAN OF THE PEOPLE 'a la George Costanza (a Seinfeld reference which I use whenever possible),I suggest everyone who uses DNP hit up the meso forums for a search on Conciliator's posting history.He is well schooled on DNP usage and is writing a book on the subject,he recently posted (after I inquired) that using creatine and other supps that favorably tweak ATP for endurance levels (beta alanine,arginine etc) is not detrimental to DNP and may actually increase fat loss.That was part of a helluva informative thread (on M&M),which I'll dig up and link here if requested.

 

[crader]

Ultra-40's?? Those things are tiny!!
I'd hate to see you attempt the Universal UniLiver then.. :18:

I'm one of those people that after awhile of being on supps I develop an aversion to swallowing them.

 

[Steveoph]

Snag, do you have a 0.1g scale? You could weigh 20 tabs, and take the average weight. 2.4gx20= 48g . Minimizes the loss of decimal places

 

[snagency]

I was suckered into the notion of liver tabs being a staple supplement when I first got into lifting around 10 years ago and have only bought them once.I think they have no practical application towards athletes who do not use AAS and really are not a staple supplement,they are on a par with the validity of leucine supplementation IMHO,but I digress.For juicers,they're not a bad move though.

Being a natty athlete, I will disagree with you..
Not to be argumentative, but you yourself say 'they are on a par with the validity of leucine supplementation'.. do you say leucine then is not a useful supplement? :think:
Now, I will say this: I first became interested in liver tabs when I heard Arnold & Lou and all the old-school guys took 100 liver tabs daily (which, BTW, 30 Bev U-40's are equivalent to this amount today..) After reading your above post, maybe there were other reasons for their use of such large amounts..
I'm still old school tho; I know how I feel on these, how it impacts my strength; I can feel a difference when I'm utilizing them vs. when I'm not, and this has been consistent thruout my yrs of usage..
As well, just intellectually, I find it difficult to discount the wholesome nutrition that these provide. Me thinks I'll be continuing as I have -- I'm convinced!

 

[EasyEJL]

Looking at what the NP price is right now, assuming that all 2600mg counts as protein (if you read their writeup on their own site they say each tab provides over 2g of protein) then these are cheaper than optimum nutrition whey on a $/g of protein basis. Seems to be a nice choice as a staple just for that - easy convenient beef based protein

 

[Jayhawkk]

After around a week and a half on sesa and milk thistle the pain was still there and progressing,yet he continued on with the fun stuff + AAS.So I gave him some dessicated liver tabs I received in a supplement trade as a bonus.I wouldnlt have thought to suggest them to this guy if I didn;t have them lying around,I figured if sesa+milk thistle didn't do the trick,it was either press onward for another few weeks and visit the ER or wisely drop the AAS.After several days of using liver tabs the very intense liver/kidney pain was dealt with so this long winded anecdotal tale indicates the efficacy of liver tabs on treating liver and kidney disorders.He did wise up and wrap up the cycle shortly thereafter,in good health.

As someone who has delt with extremely high liver values due to abused orals and at the time didn't drink and never did drugs i find the use of liver tabs making the pains/symptoms stop a bit too bro-sciencesque for me to really believe. Not that i'm doubting his report to you but his actual recovery and what it was from. Especially since you're tossing in the use of rec drugs and consumption of alcohol.

 

[snagency]

Snag, do you have a 0.1g scale? You could weigh 20 tabs, and take the average weight. 2.4gx20= 48g . Minimizes the loss of decimal places

No scales at all right now; don't have any need. All my foods (meats) are packaged such that I can eyeball close enough to be spot-on.
Anything powdered I need nothing more than cups measurements (1/4c, 1/2c, etc.), as well as TBS, 1/2 TBS, TSP, etc.
I'm in a pretty base state right now bro!

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, if NP ships the bottle I ordered today it should be here saturday. my scale is only a +-1g, but it also has a 5kg capacity, so I can toss 50 on there to see

 

[EasyEJL]

I got 1051g for a full unopened bottle, which doesn't quite jibe with 2600mg per tab

 

[dsade]

I got 1051g for a full unopened bottle, which doesn't quite jibe with 2600mg per tab

That includes the bottle?

Wow...that's way off..and close to what I got.

 

[EasyEJL]

That includes the bottle?

Wow...that's way off..and close to what I got.

included bottle, top plus floss.

I pulled tabs out, and 20 tabs was wavering between 39 + 40g

 

[dsade]

included bottle, top plus floss.

I pulled tabs out, and 20 tabs was wavering between 39 + 40g

And that includes binders, which can be up to 20% of the overall weight per tablet.

How accurate is your scale?


as a side bonus for all of this work, not only will I be running these as a bulk tablet, but I also modified the new FidOmega Softmoist treats to include the dessicated liver material. These are going to be excellent!