dnbaker
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As an introduction, if this pans out it would mean:
1. Effects on muscle and strength on the order of steroids (dbol was the the comparison)
2. No side effects.
3. No shutdown.
4. No support supps needed.
5. No PCT needed
6. No need to end cycle
7. It would be legal
So far, it has been shown that it:
1. Increases size and protein synthesis in HUMAN muscle cells.
2. Increases size and protein synthesis of/in rat muscle cells.
3. Increases strength in rats fed orally in a fashion comparable to DBOL.
4. Increases mass as well as DBOL if not better in rats fed orally.
5. Increases mass locally via site injections as well as systemically.
J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 3532–3537 (Phytoecdysteroids Increase Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle Cells) orally forcefed rats 20HE 50mg/Kg daily, or water, or spinach extract with the same amount of 20HE, or 10mg/Kg dianabol.
They also tested human muscle cells in solution with these chemicals and reported increased protein synthesis of over 2x dbol's. It worked on these human cells, primary myotubes.
Phytomedicine Volume 15, Issue 9, 3 September 2008, Pages 691-698 (20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat)
Site injections in one soleus and not the other led to increase of size
"Our study demonstrated that 20E affects the size of fiber types in a different manner in the soleus than in the EDL muscles. This suggests that this compound affects fiber type size in a muscle-specific fashion. A muscle-specific effect on fiber size has also been reported in case of anabolic–androgenic steroids (AAS)"
" Although the effect of 20E on these muscles is to be determined, it appears that both anabolic steroids and ecdysteroids are acting on the size of fibers in a multiple, muscle-specific fashion. However, it should be noted that AAS are effective in a lower dose than 20E. It is another difference that 20E did not alter the fiber type proportion in the studied muscles as the anabolic steroids"
And, perhaps importantly in a pertinent sense: "The 20E showed a more pronounced effect in the treated left hindlimb (on IIx and IIb fibers of the EDL) than in the untreated right hindlimb, probably because of the distance from the site of administration. This shows that the 20E acts locally and via the circulation."
"In conclusion, [COLOR*********]20E modifies muscle fiber size in normal and regenerating muscles even after 7 days administration in a slightly higher dose than the anabolic steroids. This effect is dose dependent and, similarly to that of anabolic steroids, it influences the size of fiber types in a muscle-specific fashion. The 20E probably acts in concert with other growth factors because its effect on normal muscles is modified by the presence of a regenerating soleus.[/COLOR] This suggests that 20E may provide an opportunity for substitution of anabolic–androgenic steroids in therapeutic treatments against muscle atrophy."
So- in summary:
1. Oral administration at 50mg/Kg 20HE for 28 days increased strength more than 10mg/Kg dianabol. This acted systemically.
2. Site injections worked both locally and systemically.
3. Like AAS, it acts on muscles in different ways better than other ways.
4. It works extra well on muscles that are recovering from serious trauma (snake venom).
5. It works supposedly via the PI3Kinase pathway, but they've found that it acts via multiple pathways.
Questions:
SHOULD this work on humans, theoretically?
Should this be taken orally or via injections? I would assume that injections would have higher availability.
Is it water or fat soluble?
I'm currently running this at 2.5g ecdy/day. I'm either going to blow up or it doesn't work orally on humans.
I've heard of many people taking it but not seeing responses. I think that the reasons could be:
1. Low doses. You need to take a lot.
2. Low oral availability- back to the water/fat soluble question.
Thanks all.
1. Effects on muscle and strength on the order of steroids (dbol was the the comparison)
2. No side effects.
3. No shutdown.
4. No support supps needed.
5. No PCT needed
6. No need to end cycle
7. It would be legal
So far, it has been shown that it:
1. Increases size and protein synthesis in HUMAN muscle cells.
2. Increases size and protein synthesis of/in rat muscle cells.
3. Increases strength in rats fed orally in a fashion comparable to DBOL.
4. Increases mass as well as DBOL if not better in rats fed orally.
5. Increases mass locally via site injections as well as systemically.
J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 3532–3537 (Phytoecdysteroids Increase Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle Cells) orally forcefed rats 20HE 50mg/Kg daily, or water, or spinach extract with the same amount of 20HE, or 10mg/Kg dianabol.
They also tested human muscle cells in solution with these chemicals and reported increased protein synthesis of over 2x dbol's. It worked on these human cells, primary myotubes.
Phytomedicine Volume 15, Issue 9, 3 September 2008, Pages 691-698 (20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat)
Site injections in one soleus and not the other led to increase of size
"Our study demonstrated that 20E affects the size of fiber types in a different manner in the soleus than in the EDL muscles. This suggests that this compound affects fiber type size in a muscle-specific fashion. A muscle-specific effect on fiber size has also been reported in case of anabolic–androgenic steroids (AAS)"
" Although the effect of 20E on these muscles is to be determined, it appears that both anabolic steroids and ecdysteroids are acting on the size of fibers in a multiple, muscle-specific fashion. However, it should be noted that AAS are effective in a lower dose than 20E. It is another difference that 20E did not alter the fiber type proportion in the studied muscles as the anabolic steroids"
And, perhaps importantly in a pertinent sense: "The 20E showed a more pronounced effect in the treated left hindlimb (on IIx and IIb fibers of the EDL) than in the untreated right hindlimb, probably because of the distance from the site of administration. This shows that the 20E acts locally and via the circulation."
"In conclusion, [COLOR*********]20E modifies muscle fiber size in normal and regenerating muscles even after 7 days administration in a slightly higher dose than the anabolic steroids. This effect is dose dependent and, similarly to that of anabolic steroids, it influences the size of fiber types in a muscle-specific fashion. The 20E probably acts in concert with other growth factors because its effect on normal muscles is modified by the presence of a regenerating soleus.[/COLOR] This suggests that 20E may provide an opportunity for substitution of anabolic–androgenic steroids in therapeutic treatments against muscle atrophy."
So- in summary:
1. Oral administration at 50mg/Kg 20HE for 28 days increased strength more than 10mg/Kg dianabol. This acted systemically.
2. Site injections worked both locally and systemically.
3. Like AAS, it acts on muscles in different ways better than other ways.
4. It works extra well on muscles that are recovering from serious trauma (snake venom).
5. It works supposedly via the PI3Kinase pathway, but they've found that it acts via multiple pathways.
Questions:
SHOULD this work on humans, theoretically?
Should this be taken orally or via injections? I would assume that injections would have higher availability.
Is it water or fat soluble?
I'm currently running this at 2.5g ecdy/day. I'm either going to blow up or it doesn't work orally on humans.
I've heard of many people taking it but not seeing responses. I think that the reasons could be:
1. Low doses. You need to take a lot.
2. Low oral availability- back to the water/fat soluble question.
Thanks all.
