USPLabs PRIME -what is the final verdict with regards to supression?

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    Question USPLabs PRIME -what is the final verdict with regards to supression?


    Ok, the product has been out for a while now. Some people say it helps them build muscle some say not so much. That aspect has been discussed a great deal and I am not intending to restart that debate.

    My question is what the final verdict has been with regards to suppression. Does it lead to a decline in natural testosterone production if used alone?

    Thanks

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    Never was an issue of suppression. The LH & T levels were unchanged from what I understand of the bloodwork done on the initial testers.
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    Are you serious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Never was an issue of suppression. The LH & T levels were unchanged from what I understand of the bloodwork done on the initial testers.
    Agreed.
    Zero suppression, zero PCT needed. You are all set.

    :bb3:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Ok, the product has been out for a while now. Some people say it helps them build muscle some say not so much. That aspect has been discussed a great deal and I am not intending to restart that debate.

    My question is what the final verdict has been with regards to suppression. Does it lead to a decline in natural testosterone production if used alone?

    Thanks
    it's not a hormonal product. ur final debate could have been answered before the product was even used by anybody
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    it's not a hormonal product. ur final debate could have been answered before the product was even used by anybody
    So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

    Thanks
    This is why I have a very hard time beliving the bs about phytoandrogens or whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

    Thanks

    It does not activate the androgen receptor...
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    then hows it work....
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalducki View Post
    then hows it work....
    That's what theyre trying to figure out with a Penn state study
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    It does not activate the androgen receptor...
    2 questions:

    1- Some anabolics that do not bind to androgen receptors still cause HTPA shutdown. It is puzzling to me how this happens; I even started a thread in mindandmuscle long time ago to ask specifically this question but got no explanation. My understanding is that nobody really knows how an anabolic drug that causes muscle growth without AR agonism causes shutdown. So do we know for sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown? Any blood tests?

    2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?


    I am asking those questions not because I dislike PRIME. To the contrary, I love it. I ordered 3 bottles from the initial sale and used 1 full bottle. The pumps were awesome and unlike any other substance I ever took. I was taking 9 pills a day and also put on some muscle. Unfortunately, I got injured right at the end of bottle 1, but I am good now. I will soon do a cycle with the two remaining bottles. However, I just want to make sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown before I proceed...
    Thanks

    Sub
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    I can only give my experience without bloodwork. I've tried tren xtreme and epistane before and prime is not at all the same in regards to shutdown. Yes I did get shutdown a little bit with epistane and more with tren xtreme and had SERMs on hand for that. Doing 2nd run of prime right now and no shutdown at all. Had no problems keeping about 80% of the strength gained from prime. I wouldn't say it was as easy with the DS/PH at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatingisfun View Post
    I can only give my experience without bloodwork. I've tried tren xtreme and epistane before and prime is not at all the same in regards to shutdown. Yes I did get shutdown a little bit with epistane and more with tren xtreme and had SERMs on hand for that. Doing 2nd run of prime right now and no shutdown at all. Had no problems keeping about 80% of the strength gained from prime. I wouldn't say it was as easy with the DS/PH at all.
    it's a form of tribulus. u can't compare it to epistane and tren products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    it's a form of tribulus. u can't compare it to epistane and tren products.
    Obviously not but I'm comparing any amount of shut down not anabolic or androgenic effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    2 questions:

    1- Some anabolics that do not bind to androgen receptors still cause HTPA shutdown. It is puzzling to me how this happens; I even started a thread in mindandmuscle long time ago to ask specifically this question but got no explanation. My understanding is that nobody really knows how an anabolic drug that causes muscle growth without AR agonism causes shutdown. So do we know for sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown? Any blood tests?
    Yes, there are Class I and Class II steroids, based on their binding affinity to the AR. However, the operative term here is affinity! I say that as, in fact, all steroids bind to the AR on some level, but with a different affinity for inducing mRNA transcription. So, in simpler terms, Class I steroids merely bind harder to the AR, exerting a more direct transcriptional control over the cell; Class II still bind, but probably exert their predominant anabolic effect though transcription upregulation, coactivation factors and so forth. In regards to shutdown, any and all steroids cause shutdown, as they are chemically close enough to Endogenous Testosterone. Yes, we had FSH/LH blood tests done on our Alpha Testers and we will be releasing those.

    2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?
    We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatingisfun View Post
    Obviously not but I'm comparing any amount of shut down not anabolic or androgenic effects.
    gotcha
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    i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?
    The question is fair and does not make you an "@ss". There is a whole list of compounds in drug-development and production history that are known to be significantly bioactive, although their precise mechanisms of action (MoA) are not known. This does not stop them from being used as active ingredients in different matrices. As a matter of fact, such compounds are highly sought after, as they may lead to significant breakthroughs. We know PRIME works and this has been confirmed by many non-affiliated users. We are also investing resources aimed at understanding its MoA. We will release more details presently.

    Thank you for your interest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?

    Most supplements are released based off theory not exact MOA. Most supplements are released by companies assuming MOA through a few studies and then releasing it as fact to the public which you can then accept or deny.

    You guys keep beating the wrong drum..
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?
    go tell big pharm that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    Most supplements are released based off theory not exact MOA. Most supplements are released by companies assuming MOA through a few studies and then releasing it as fact to the public which you can then accept or deny.

    You guys keep beating the wrong drum..
    beating the wrong drum? i'm just asking a simple question
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    beating the wrong drum? i'm just asking a simple question
    No offence meant. Your question has been answered, I suppose. Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07zx6r View Post
    go tell big pharm that.
    yes but aren't they required to test them for a few years or so in order to determine it's safe. and i know some bad results are covered up and not so safe products do get out.
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    Lets say Prime does cause some kind of shut down, would stacking it with something like DTH counteract that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHunter516 View Post
    Lets say Prime does cause some kind of shut down, would stacking it with something like DTH counteract that?
    The question is hypothetical, as PRIME does not cause any HPTA suppression. Still, PRIME can be stacked with testosterone boosters such as Diesel Test Hardcore.
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    "2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?

    We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression."

    Sorry, I am really confused here. I asked how you knew PRIME does not activate Ar, and you said "we do not". However, the company owner just said -in plain English- "it does not activate the AR".

    ??????

    You guys are assuming that it does not activate the AR because it does not cause much shutdown? Or you are simply assuming...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    "2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?

    We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression."

    Sorry, I am really confused here. I asked how you knew PRIME does not activate Ar, and you said "we do not". However, the company owner just said -in plain English- "it does not activate the AR".

    ??????

    You guys are assuming that it does not activate the AR because it does not cause much shutdown? Or you are simply assuming...?
    You asked how I knew it was not activating the AR, I said we do not. Rather than put forward conjecture, I was honest. It is highly doubtful that it is activating the AR in a non-suppressive manner such as a SARM. Also, it causes no shutdown whatsoever. I am trying to communicate that as clearly as possible!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    You asked how I knew it was not activating the AR, I said we do not. Rather than put forward conjecture, I was honest. It is highly doubtful that it is activating the AR in a non-suppressive manner such as a SARM. Also, it causes no shutdown whatsoever. I am trying to communicate that as clearly as possible!

    In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalducki View Post
    then hows it work....
    it doesnt LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...
    Of course you are not. I apologize if you feel you are being accused.

    However, I am unsure if you are referring to or understanding "activating the AR" as I am. By "activating the AR" I am assuming you are referring to a genomic activation of the AR whereby an androgen binds to its associated receptor, resulting in transcription, mRNA synthesis, and the production of muscle-specific proteins.

    However, I am assuming that is not how you have understood the term! After reading the thread over, I believe you understand "activating the AR" to mean a suppression of natural testosterone production. When it was said it does not cause any natural suppression, and you continued with your line of questioning, I then assumed you understood "activating the AR" in the manner I described above; in the case of PRIME, this would result in PRIME being a SARM [selective androgen receptor modulator]. This, however, is a highly unlikely scenario, which is why I said:

    We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression.
    That was to say: "We cannot be sure that PRIME is not having some non-suppressive AR action, but suggesting anything of the like is mere conjecture. We do know through blood tests, however, that it is not suppressive in anyway."

    I hope we are both on the same page here, as there seems to be some confusion. Hopefully this post has clarified the situation slightly; if it has not, hopefully you will clarify your use of the terms!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...

    We spent a gross amount of money at Penn State to find this out.

    It will be posted soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    We spent a gross amount of money at Penn State to find this out.

    It will be posted soon.
    so how pissed are u gonna be if they came back and say "i have no idea"
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    The question is fair and does not make you an "@ss". There is a whole list of compounds in drug-development and production history that are known to be significantly bioactive, although their precise mechanisms of action (MoA) are not known. This does not stop them from being used as active ingredients in different matrices. As a matter of fact, such compounds are highly sought after, as they may lead to significant breakthroughs. We know PRIME works and this has been confirmed by many non-affiliated users. We are also investing resources aimed at understanding its MoA. We will release more details presently.

    Thank you for your interest.
    True. I would say that MoAs of most drugs are not known exactly.
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    look guys, he is doing everything in his power to find out. im sure this study wasnt cheap. lets give it a chance here. If you worried about prime, dont take it. simple as that
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    so how pissed are u gonna be if they came back and say "i have no idea"
    Why would I be pissed?

    I have a great Fu#ken supplement on my hands. I'm blessed to have this problem.
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    Mullet,

    You did an excellent job clarifying what I had in mind. We will just wait for more data to flow in from the study.
    I thank you very much for your diligence and patience.

    Sub
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    Bottle #3 for me, and no shutdown. No real results either. Sorry USP. Love the rest of your products. Have (2) unopened bottles (cheap) if anyone is interested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    Why would I be pissed?

    I have a great Fu#ken supplement on my hands. I'm blessed to have this problem.
    i'm just saying spending all that money and not finding out what u wanted to find
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsp0785 View Post
    i'm just saying spending all that money and not finding out what u wanted to find

    you could look at it both ways, but it confirms that we have a potent non hormonal anabolic on our hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    you could look at it both ways, but it confirms that we have a potent non hormonal anabolic on our hands.
    true. i ran 2 bottles of it and liked the 1st bottle. after getting through that the 2nd one didn't really do anything. i took a few weeks off in between. guess i might just need a longer break
  

  
 

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