USPLabs PRIME -what is the final verdict with regards to supression?

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Sub7

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Ok, the product has been out for a while now. Some people say it helps them build muscle some say not so much. That aspect has been discussed a great deal and I am not intending to restart that debate.

My question is what the final verdict has been with regards to suppression. Does it lead to a decline in natural testosterone production if used alone?

Thanks
 
borobulker

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Never was an issue of suppression. The LH & T levels were unchanged from what I understand of the bloodwork done on the initial testers.
Agreed.
Zero suppression, zero PCT needed. You are all set.

:bb3:
 
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jsp0785

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Ok, the product has been out for a while now. Some people say it helps them build muscle some say not so much. That aspect has been discussed a great deal and I am not intending to restart that debate.

My question is what the final verdict has been with regards to suppression. Does it lead to a decline in natural testosterone production if used alone?

Thanks
it's not a hormonal product. ur final debate could have been answered before the product was even used by anybody
 
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it's not a hormonal product. ur final debate could have been answered before the product was even used by anybody
So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

Thanks
 
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json75

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So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

Thanks
This is why I have a very hard time beliving the bs about phytoandrogens or whatever.
 
G

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So PRIME will activate the androgen receptors in muscle tissue, but the receptors in the hypothalamus will not recognize this molecule at all? This is quite revolutionary if true. Do any independent testers have blood results?

Thanks

It does not activate the androgen receptor...
 
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It does not activate the androgen receptor...
2 questions:

1- Some anabolics that do not bind to androgen receptors still cause HTPA shutdown. It is puzzling to me how this happens; I even started a thread in mindandmuscle long time ago to ask specifically this question but got no explanation. My understanding is that nobody really knows how an anabolic drug that causes muscle growth without AR agonism causes shutdown. So do we know for sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown? Any blood tests?

2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?


I am asking those questions not because I dislike PRIME. To the contrary, I love it. I ordered 3 bottles from the initial sale and used 1 full bottle. The pumps were awesome and unlike any other substance I ever took. I was taking 9 pills a day and also put on some muscle. Unfortunately, I got injured right at the end of bottle 1, but I am good now. I will soon do a cycle with the two remaining bottles. However, I just want to make sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown before I proceed...
Thanks

Sub
 
eatingisfun

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I can only give my experience without bloodwork. I've tried tren xtreme and epistane before and prime is not at all the same in regards to shutdown. Yes I did get shutdown a little bit with epistane and more with tren xtreme and had SERMs on hand for that. Doing 2nd run of prime right now and no shutdown at all. Had no problems keeping about 80% of the strength gained from prime. I wouldn't say it was as easy with the DS/PH at all.
 
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I can only give my experience without bloodwork. I've tried tren xtreme and epistane before and prime is not at all the same in regards to shutdown. Yes I did get shutdown a little bit with epistane and more with tren xtreme and had SERMs on hand for that. Doing 2nd run of prime right now and no shutdown at all. Had no problems keeping about 80% of the strength gained from prime. I wouldn't say it was as easy with the DS/PH at all.
it's a form of tribulus. u can't compare it to epistane and tren products.
 
eatingisfun

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it's a form of tribulus. u can't compare it to epistane and tren products.
Obviously not but I'm comparing any amount of shut down not anabolic or androgenic effects.
 
Mulletsoldier

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2 questions:

1- Some anabolics that do not bind to androgen receptors still cause HTPA shutdown. It is puzzling to me how this happens; I even started a thread in mindandmuscle long time ago to ask specifically this question but got no explanation. My understanding is that nobody really knows how an anabolic drug that causes muscle growth without AR agonism causes shutdown. So do we know for sure that PRIME does not cause shutdown? Any blood tests?
Yes, there are Class I and Class II steroids, based on their binding affinity to the AR. However, the operative term here is affinity! I say that as, in fact, all steroids bind to the AR on some level, but with a different affinity for inducing mRNA transcription. So, in simpler terms, Class I steroids merely bind harder to the AR, exerting a more direct transcriptional control over the cell; Class II still bind, but probably exert their predominant anabolic effect though transcription upregulation, coactivation factors and so forth. In regards to shutdown, any and all steroids cause shutdown, as they are chemically close enough to Endogenous Testosterone. Yes, we had FSH/LH blood tests done on our Alpha Testers and we will be releasing those.

2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?
We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression.
 
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i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?
 
strategicmove

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i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?
The question is fair and does not make you an "@ss". There is a whole list of compounds in drug-development and production history that are known to be significantly bioactive, although their precise mechanisms of action (MoA) are not known. This does not stop them from being used as active ingredients in different matrices. As a matter of fact, such compounds are highly sought after, as they may lead to significant breakthroughs. We know PRIME works and this has been confirmed by many non-affiliated users. We are also investing resources aimed at understanding its MoA. We will release more details presently.

Thank you for your interest.
 
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i don't wanna sound like an @ss but wouldn't u want to know exactly how a product worked before you release it to the public?

Most supplements are released based off theory not exact MOA. Most supplements are released by companies assuming MOA through a few studies and then releasing it as fact to the public which you can then accept or deny.

You guys keep beating the wrong drum..
 
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Most supplements are released based off theory not exact MOA. Most supplements are released by companies assuming MOA through a few studies and then releasing it as fact to the public which you can then accept or deny.

You guys keep beating the wrong drum..
beating the wrong drum? i'm just asking a simple question
 
strategicmove

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beating the wrong drum? i'm just asking a simple question
No offence meant. Your question has been answered, I suppose. Thank you.
 
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go tell big pharm that.:lol:
yes but aren't they required to test them for a few years or so in order to determine it's safe. and i know some bad results are covered up and not so safe products do get out.
 
TheHunter516

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Lets say Prime does cause some kind of shut down, would stacking it with something like DTH counteract that?
 
strategicmove

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Lets say Prime does cause some kind of shut down, would stacking it with something like DTH counteract that?
The question is hypothetical, as PRIME does not cause any HPTA suppression. Still, PRIME can be stacked with testosterone boosters such as Diesel Test Hardcore.
 
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"2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?

We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression."

Sorry, I am really confused here. I asked how you knew PRIME does not activate Ar, and you said "we do not". However, the company owner just said -in plain English- "it does not activate the AR".

??????

You guys are assuming that it does not activate the AR because it does not cause much shutdown? Or you are simply assuming...?
 
Mulletsoldier

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"2- How did we determine that PRIME does not activate AR?

We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression."

Sorry, I am really confused here. I asked how you knew PRIME does not activate Ar, and you said "we do not". However, the company owner just said -in plain English- "it does not activate the AR".

??????

You guys are assuming that it does not activate the AR because it does not cause much shutdown? Or you are simply assuming...?
You asked how I knew it was not activating the AR, I said we do not. Rather than put forward conjecture, I was honest. It is highly doubtful that it is activating the AR in a non-suppressive manner such as a SARM. Also, it causes no shutdown whatsoever. I am trying to communicate that as clearly as possible!
 
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You asked how I knew it was not activating the AR, I said we do not. Rather than put forward conjecture, I was honest. It is highly doubtful that it is activating the AR in a non-suppressive manner such as a SARM. Also, it causes no shutdown whatsoever. I am trying to communicate that as clearly as possible!

In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...
 
Mulletsoldier

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In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...
Of course you are not. I apologize if you feel you are being accused.

However, I am unsure if you are referring to or understanding "activating the AR" as I am. By "activating the AR" I am assuming you are referring to a genomic activation of the AR whereby an androgen binds to its associated receptor, resulting in transcription, mRNA synthesis, and the production of muscle-specific proteins.

However, I am assuming that is not how you have understood the term! After reading the thread over, I believe you understand "activating the AR" to mean a suppression of natural testosterone production. When it was said it does not cause any natural suppression, and you continued with your line of questioning, I then assumed you understood "activating the AR" in the manner I described above; in the case of PRIME, this would result in PRIME being a SARM [selective androgen receptor modulator]. This, however, is a highly unlikely scenario, which is why I said:

We do not. However, we do know that it is not causing any hormonal suppression.
That was to say: "We cannot be sure that PRIME is not having some non-suppressive AR action, but suggesting anything of the like is mere conjecture. We do know through blood tests, however, that it is not suppressive in anyway."

I hope we are both on the same page here, as there seems to be some confusion. Hopefully this post has clarified the situation slightly; if it has not, hopefully you will clarify your use of the terms!
 
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In that case, I hope Jacob will come out and defend his comment. He said "it does not activate the AR" and I am simply asking him how he came to that conclusion. Very simple question, asked without a personal attack or hidden agenda...

We spent a gross amount of money at Penn State to find this out.

It will be posted soon.
 
LilPsychotic

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The question is fair and does not make you an "@ss". There is a whole list of compounds in drug-development and production history that are known to be significantly bioactive, although their precise mechanisms of action (MoA) are not known. This does not stop them from being used as active ingredients in different matrices. As a matter of fact, such compounds are highly sought after, as they may lead to significant breakthroughs. We know PRIME works and this has been confirmed by many non-affiliated users. We are also investing resources aimed at understanding its MoA. We will release more details presently.

Thank you for your interest.
True. I would say that MoAs of most drugs are not known exactly.
 
freezito

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look guys, he is doing everything in his power to find out. im sure this study wasnt cheap. lets give it a chance here. If you worried about prime, dont take it. simple as that
 
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Mullet,

You did an excellent job clarifying what I had in mind. We will just wait for more data to flow in from the study.
I thank you very much for your diligence and patience.

Sub
 
crewchief182

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Bottle #3 for me, and no shutdown. No real results either. Sorry USP. Love the rest of your products. Have (2) unopened bottles (cheap) if anyone is interested.
 
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Why would I be pissed?

I have a great Fu#ken supplement on my hands. I'm blessed to have this problem.
i'm just saying spending all that money and not finding out what u wanted to find
 
G

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i'm just saying spending all that money and not finding out what u wanted to find

you could look at it both ways, but it confirms that we have a potent non hormonal anabolic on our hands.
 
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jsp0785

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you could look at it both ways, but it confirms that we have a potent non hormonal anabolic on our hands.
true. i ran 2 bottles of it and liked the 1st bottle. after getting through that the 2nd one didn't really do anything. i took a few weeks off in between. guess i might just need a longer break
 
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I agree that the idea of suppression is silly, but I did experience a side effect with it while taking a few other things that I have taken together before without problems, but it went away as soon as I stopped taking the other things. I was taking regular dose Drive, low dose RPM, and high dose cissus at the same time as Prime since the Prime arrived as my bottles were running down and I was curious to start. I got one really sensitive nipple for some reason, which really makes no sense since none of those things should be able to cause that. If I use Prime again I'll be sure to use it alone, but I certainly wouldn't be afraid of using it. Also run 2 bottles or don't bother because I was at the very end of one before I started to see anything close to the advertised effects.
 
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I agree that the idea of suppression is silly, but I did experience a side effect with it while taking a few other things that I have taken together before without problems, but it went away as soon as I stopped taking the other things. I was taking regular dose Drive, low dose RPM, and high dose cissus at the same time as Prime since the Prime arrived as my bottles were running down and I was curious to start. I got one really sensitive nipple for some reason, which really makes no sense since none of those things should be able to cause that. If I use Prime again I'll be sure to use it alone, but I certainly wouldn't be afraid of using it. Also run 2 bottles or don't bother because I was at the very end of one before I started to see anything close to the advertised effects.
It's funny you mention this, I had the same exact thing happen to me, minus the Cissus. As soon as I dropped the Drive, the nipple issue went away.

As a side note, I used 2 bottles of Prime and loved every day of it. I can't wait to give it another go @12 caps a day.
 
D

dpfisher

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It's funny you mention this, I had the same exact thing happen to me, minus the Cissus. As soon as I dropped the Drive, the nipple issue went away.

As a side note, I used 2 bottles of Prime and loved every day of it. I can't wait to give it another go @12 caps a day.
Well that makes me feel better, when I mentioned it here people kinda jumped all over me telling me I was imagining it... why the heck would I imagine something I never expected in the first place??
 
eatingisfun

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Using Prime with Drive right now without issue. Not to say it's not a problem for you but I don't think it's a certainty for everyone.
 
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