DiCreatine Malate

[kingin23]

???

 

[dsade]

Great compound. Includes the Malate component as a KREBS intermediate, to help boost endurance, as well as not causing any bloating at all.

My second favorite form of Creatine (to Gluconate).

 

[MentalTwitch]

i would use it solo.
It is def. one of the more promising forms of all the "new" creatines hitting the scene.

Dsade - Is gluconate the "controversial" one that Patrick A. said something about bonding to the glucose molecule and how it cant happen or some business or am i thinking of a different one?
Not picking at your choice, I love Kre-Alk but alot of other dont like it.

 

[ari4216]

thanks D never heard of gluconate but i just purchased a container of Di Creatine Malare from nutraplanet for 2.99 and ill give it a try

anyone recommend mixing it with JACKED(considering the fact it already has mono) or will i just have crazy vien popping pumps that will hurt so much id wanna go home :bb3:

it depends how much jacked you take.

it doesnt have to much creatine.

you oculd probally add 2-3 grams.

and then take 3-5 grams on off days.

 

[tnubs]

it tastes horrible if u buy the bulk powders. any way to mask it?

 

[itln stln]

so using it post workout mixed with my protien shake? heard it has a bit of a sour taste?

It does have a sour taste to it. I mix it with lemon lime gatorade to mask the taste.

 

[MentalTwitch]

am i reading that right? 15g creatine on non-workout days?

Usually OJ masks alot. I used it for bulk Arginine and i was suprised how well it worked, so i could see orange tang being the same way.

 

[ari4216]

im trying a combo of dicreatine malate and creatine gluconate

plus aakg and arginine ethyl ester

for pre workout

once my order gets here

 

[ari4216]

yea about 10g-15g creatine on workout and non workout days is that enough or too much

5g of dicreatine malate in the morning and 10g mono post workout in volu-gro....also have bulk mono might mix 2-3 grams in my protien drink...how much creatine do you guys recommend using on non-workout/workout days

5 grams is all you really need, unless your creatine loading,which isnt necessary.

Personally i get too much cramps/bloating from anything more than 10 grams creatine mono a day.

the extra creatine wont kill, but its just gonna get pissed out of your body.

 

[b unit]

Great compound. Includes the Malate component as a KREBS intermediate, to help boost endurance, as well as not causing any bloating at all.

My second favorite form of Creatine (to Gluconate).

i'll 2nd that, i buy mine in bulk from nutra planet, both are cheap and effective stuff

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

I'm currently using Green Mag, and it's the only creatine that has given me significant gains. I've used mono, cellmass (with the claimed CEM), celltech, and a few others.

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

I haven't been on it for too long, maybe for a month or month and a half. Can't remember the exact time since I haven't logged anything. I didn't load, I just used half a scoop preworkout and half postworkout. I'd say I put on a good 5 pounds or so (and I'm an EXTREMELY hardgainer). The last week of December, or 5 days of it, I was out of town with no gym. I ate like crap and didn't take a single serving of Green Mag the whole time and kept all or most of my size and weight.

 

[ari4216]

Gains with all forms creatine are gonna be pretty similar
each one has their own advatages and disadvatages.

the advantage of dicreatine malate is that it has a krep cycle intermediate which helps product more atp(correct me if im wrong)
also it causes less bloating

however, bloating is useful to some, ie creatine monohydrate.

One of the little reasons test increase stregth because it indirectly increases estrogen. Estrogen increases the water in the muscle. Creatine does this somewhat to. Creatine increases stregth by increases water retention and increases atp, and a few other things.(correct me if im wrong)

The best one, by experienced creatine users is creatine gluconate, so you may want to try this after dicreatine malate.

 

[strategicmove]

......anyone think mixing this with USP Jacked is a good idea as a PreWorkOut Drink?

If you are taking the maximum serving of JACKED pre-workout, you do not necessarily need additional creatine. Otherwise, feel free to add your other creatine form(s).

 

[strategicmove]

...
The best one, by experienced creatine users is creatine gluconate, so you may want to try this after dicreatine malate.

Why is creatine gluconate the best?

 

[ari4216]

Why is creatine gluconate the best?

Well, thats just an opinion.

Its tasteless, it mixes well, not so much bloating supposedly.

Theres no studies saying its the best.

Its just an alternatve for people who dont like creatine monohydrate, and for some, its the best alternative theyve tried.

 

[bioman]

For the money, I like dicreatine malate the best. Does everything creatine is supposed to do and it's cheap.

And stop whining about taste :lol: Add an Emergen-C packet.

 

[RenegadeRows]

I've had great results with DCM

 

[dsade]

got my shipment in tpday dosing on the tub says 1/4 tspn is 450 mg?? is this correct? meaning 5 grams would be about 2 3/4 teaspoons? bc with mono 5g in a teaspoon

Looking at what I have here, that's probably a little off - but not much.

Mine is fluffy, while Mono is quite dense. You would probably be good with a rounded teaspoon.

It's at the office, so I can't check for sure until tomorrow.

 

[dsade]

k d let me know tomorrow but as for my workout tonight ill take your word and take a rounded teaspoon after workout

Posted from an iPhone

Will do. Bump it for me tomorrow?

 

[dsade]

My scale's not exactly top quality at mg levels, but 1/4 tsp shows at about 550mg. Within tolerance, looks like 500mg/per 1/4 tsp is a safe bet.

A rounded tsp will give you about 3.5 grams

 

[dsade]

great thanks alot D!! i kno with mono only 5g is necessary per day is this the same with di creatine malate?? or only 2-3 g perday? keep in mind im also taking JACKED! on workout days which already contains some mono.. 2-3g of malate on workout days and 5g on non workout days?




Posted from an iPhone

5 g a day is just a guideline. Even at 2-3 grams a day, your creatine store will be saturated quite quickly.

Personally, though, my best results come when I take around 3 grams twice a day (one dose directly PWO).

 

[ari4216]

the whole creatine loading thing was sort of just a way to get people to buy more creatine back in the day. Smart idea for them.

Most extra creatine just gets pissed out in the form of creatinine.

What would be interesting, if some phamaceutical company would come up with something to increase the amount of creatine the body is able to store.

But creatine is so cheap now, u really dont have to worry about taking more than you need, its so cheap(mono, even dicreatine)

 

[kbtoy31]

the whole creatine loading thing was sort of just a way to get people to buy more creatine back in the day. Smart idea for them.

Most extra creatine just gets pissed out in the form of creatinine.

What would be interesting, if some phamaceutical company would come up with something to increase the amount of creatine the body is able to store.

But creatine is so cheap now, u really dont have to worry about taking more than you need, its so cheap(mono, even dicreatine)

Not really it's just a way of gettying the creatine level;s up quickly in the body. You don't have to load b/c the levels will build anyway. I listened to a recent podcast where Bill philips recommended taking 20 grams ed of creatine even after the supposed loading phase. He says that people are taking to little with only 5grams. Now he may have a vested interest but as cheap as Creatine mono is what can it hurt.

As far as CEE goes there's a pubmed article I read that says placebo raised serum levels of creatine in muscle over CEE and that it had no effect on muscle or performance. They were untrained people but still you would think that it would have some effect. Here's article if anyone is interested. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19228401

I am wanting to try a different form of creatine but so far I can't find the research to suggest I use anything but Mono. i may try 100 grams of this dicreatine malate tho', see how it works for me.
Any recent reviews on it from anyone that's used it? Any kind of weight gain or strength improvements?

 

[oufinny]

Not really it's just a way of gettying the creatine level;s up quickly in the body. You don't have to load b/c the levels will build anyway. I listened to a recent podcast where Bill philips recommended taking 20 grams ed of creatine even after the supposed loading phase. He says that people are taking to little with only 5grams. Now he may have a vested interest but as cheap as Creatine mono is what can it hurt.

As far as CEE goes there's a pubmed article I read that says placebo raised serum levels of creatine in muscle over CEE and that it had no effect on muscle or performance. They were untrained people but still you would think that it would have some effect. Here's article if anyone is interested. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19228401

I am wanting to try a different form of creatine but so far I can't find the research to suggest I use anything but Mono. i may try 100 grams of this dicreatine malate tho', see how it works for me.
Any recent reviews on it from anyone that's used it? Any kind of weight gain or strength improvements?

DCM is in DominATP by USPowders and I respond the same to it as when I take bulk mono. I don't have any bloat issues with either and I have used DCM in my pre workout drink that I made before and noticed no difference if I substituted mono. The real question is does a product like Trinitine actually have a more positive effect than CM or DCM? The rest are just fun names that try to be better than mono and don't add up. :AR15firing:

 

[kbtoy31]

DCM is in DominATP by USPowders and I respond the same to it as when I take bulk mono. I don't have any bloat issues with either and I have used DCM in my pre workout drink that I made before and noticed no difference if I substituted mono. The real question is does a product like Trinitine actually have a more positive effect than CM or DCM? The rest are just fun names that try to be better than mono and don't add up. :AR15firing:

As far as the trinitine goes i don't really know. The chelated creatines may help with the absorption. I looked up the albion labs and that's what they apparently work with all the time is chelation. Only time and people using the product will tell.

 

[kingdong]

So, even with a lot of creatines being proved to be crap, dicreatine malate is the real deal? Nobodys gonna come in and say "Stick to mono"?

 

[oufinny]

So, even with a lot of creatines being proved to be crap, dicreatine malate is the real deal? Nobodys gonna come in and say "Stick to mono"?

Well the base of it is mono, just two creatine molecules bonded to malic acid. It is just a buffering agent if my memory serves me right... if any of the chemists need to correct me do so.

 

[kingdong]

I forget. What about buffering creating stops the bloat?

 

[kbtoy31]

Isn't buffering what you do to make your car shine? :006:

Also I'll say it stick to Creatine mono, that's what I'm doing for now until I get around to maybe trying this dicreatine. The thing about it is I understand the malic acid helps with the KREBS cycle but that's not the reason I would ultimately want to take it. I would want it for the creatine and I'm not sure the creatine would be available or would it just end up being made into creatinine?

 

[kingdong]

I would want it for the creatine and I'm not sure the creatine would be available or would it just end up being made into creatinine?

Well people raved about CEE as a no bloat creatine until we found out it just became creatinine in the stomach. So that's one way to prevent bloat.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

Well people raved about CEE as a no bloat creatine until we found out it just became creatinine in the stomach. So that's one way to prevent bloat.

We did? Awww, that sucks. I gotta read this. You, of course, can provide a link to the study stating this, right?

 

[liquid]

We did? Awww, that sucks. I gotta read this. You, of course, can provide a link to the study stating this, right?

http://www.ergo-log.com/cee.html

 

[SonicSWOLE]

Well people raved about CEE as a no bloat creatine until we found out it just became creatinine in the stomach. So that's one way to prevent bloat.

http://www.ergo-log.com/cee.html

Yeah......that is not what the study says. You are extrapolating fiction.

It annoys me to see people looking slightly at a study and coming up with something so far ove the top from what the study concludes(and just 1 study w/ 1 product BTW).

 

[kingdong]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/117548-creatine-ethyl-ester.html


Furthermore, esterified creatine is unstable in low pH
conditions (14,15), and has been shown to be rapidly degraded to creatinine in stomach
acid (16).

 

[SonicSWOLE]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/117548-creatine-ethyl-ester.html


Furthermore, esterified creatine is unstable in low pH
conditions (14,15), and has been shown to be rapidly degraded to creatinine in stomach
acid (16).

Again, thes studies merely state efficacies, NOT that it is not effective or that it simply converts to creatinine. LMAO at you guys. Seriously, if you are going to make statements or post studies...understand what it is first.

 

[kingdong]

You actually quoted my article saying that it rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid. The creatine would never reach the muscle. Im pretty confident that creatinine is not a useful supplement.

 

[kbtoy31]

Again, thes studies merely state efficacies, NOT that it is not effective or that it simply converts to creatinine. LMAO at you guys. Seriously, if you are going to make statements or post studies...understand what it is first.

which study are you referring to that we don't understand what it says? Maybe the study should have used trained individuals but I just can't see that there would be that much of a disparity between the 3 groups. Anyway that isn't the only study I have found to shoot down CEE. And the truth of the matter I don't really care either way if people take it, if it works for you then take it. I'm not going to buy any of it tho'. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19660433


And it only states efficacies? Seriously?? Placebo was more effective than CEE. WTF, so that means I could drink sugar water and it would give me more benefit than CEE, you do realize that right?

 

[SonicSWOLE]

You actually quoted my article saying that it rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid. The creatine would never reach the muscle. Im pretty confident that creatinine is not a useful supplement.

I must've missed where it stated that 100% degraded. I must've also missed where it said that it was ineffective. Oh yeah, that's right...it never stated either of those things. Go ahead though, and interpret studies however you see fit. I just hope you are not giving anyone advice on this board. You are subjective (to your own opionion apparently) and yes, I am calling you out on this.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

which study are you referring to that we don't understand what it says? Maybe the study should have used trained individuals but I just can't see that there would be that much of a disparity between the 3 groups. Anyway that isn't the only study I have found to shoot down CEE. And the truth of the matter I don't really care either way if people take it, if it works for you then take it. I'm not going to buy any of it tho'. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19660433


And it only states efficacies? Seriously?? Placebo was more effective than CEE. WTF, so that means I could drink sugar water and it would give me more benefit than CEE, you do realize that right?

You don't get it either.

"Total muscle creatine content was significantly higher in CRT (p = 0.026) and CEE (p = 0.041) compared to PLA, with no differences between CRT and CEE."

Again, it states that there is no advantage to CEE over CRT(cre mono), NOT that it doesn't work. Please read and understand studies before you spout them as advice(wrongly).

 

[kbtoy31]

You don't get it either.

"Total muscle creatine content was significantly higher in CRT (p = 0.026) and CEE (p = 0.041) compared to PLA, with no differences between CRT and CEE."

Again, it states that there is no advantage to CEE over CRT(cre mono), NOT that it doesn't work. Please read and understand studies before you spout them as advice(wrongly).

i can do what you did also.

Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE.

And then there's this part of the abstract.

Significant changes over time were observed for body composition, body water, muscle strength and power variables, but no significant differences were observed between groups. In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. Therefore, the improvements in these variables can most likely be attributed to the training protocol itself, rather than the supplementation regimen.

I'm pretty sure it says that CEE is not as effective as Mono. But maybe I'm still just reading it wrong.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

i can do what you did also.


And then there's this part of the abstract.

I'm pretty sure it says that CEE is not as effective as Mono. But maybe I'm still just reading it wrong.

Yes, you are reading it wrong.

The part that you are refering to in regard to placebo being higher is during the loading phase (Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE.) before even 7 days of use. This is why I implore you to actually read and study a study.

Oh yeah..and an abstract is just that. It states there were no significant changes between groups. If I were to follow that, it would tell me that creatine in general is useless and I know first hand the contrary as do most people.... and a significant amount of studies since it was introduced to the major market in the early '90's. Abstract.

 

[kbtoy31]

Whatever I'm done debating this. I don't see where it says that those results are from the 5 day loading phase but whatever. The whole point of me starting this was not to even say CEE is crap. it was to let people know that maybe it's not all it's hyped up to be and to find a better creatine than mono but it doesn't look go so far. If you say i'm still reading the abstract wrong, ok, you win I lose whatever. i'm not slow by any means and what I get out of it is that mono is still considered to be the most beneficial creatine and that's what I'm going to take.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

Whatever I'm done debating this. I don't see where it says that those results are from the 5 day loading phase but whatever. The whole point of me starting this was not to even say CEE is crap. it was to let people know that maybe it's not all it's hyped up to be and to find a better creatine than mono but it doesn't look go so far. If you say i'm still reading the abstract wrong, ok, you win I lose whatever. i'm not slow by any means and what I get out of it is that mono is still considered to be the most beneficial creatine and that's what I'm going to take.

IME creatine monohydrate is king. I just don't want people exaggerating small variables from studies into finite FACTS. Personally, I use a mix of 10g mono, 2.5g CEE, 3g DicrM, and 3g Creatine Gluconate 2xday (total 37g/day) on my weekend carb ups.

 

[kbtoy31]

IME creatine monohydrate is king. I just don't want people exaggerating small variables from studies into finite FACTS. Personally, I use a mix of 10g mono, 2.5g CEE, 3g DicrM, and 3g Creatine Gluconate 2xday (total 37g/day) on my weekend carb ups.

That's what I want to do. I just got the Mono right now but I'm thinking of a mix of the Dicreatine malate and the mono. I don't want to add too many things at once then I won'ty know whats working and whats not.

As far as the CEE I understand that one study may noit be the best to discredit it but it also wasn't the only one i posted, but let's drop it. If it works for you that's all that matters.

OT have you ever seen that liquid creatine by species? I know as a whole most liquid creatines are discredited but i've read a little of the science behind his method and it's interesting at least. The very few reviews haven't been so good so far but it's only like 2 people.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

That's what I want to do. I just got the Mono right now but I'm thinking of a mix of the Dicreatine malate and the mono. I don't want to add too many things at once then I won'ty know whats working and whats not.

As far as the CEE I understand that one study may noit be the best to discredit it but it also wasn't the only one i posted, but let's drop it. If it works for you that's all that matters.

OT have you ever seen that liquid creatine by species? I know as a whole most liquid creatines are discredited but i've read a little of the science behind his method and it's interesting at least. The very few reviews haven't been so good so far but it's only like 2 people.

I haven't seen it yet, but I am skeptical of liquid creatine formulas. Maybe unfairly, but it seems there are just so many more chances for degredation (ie. shipping temps, storage temps). So maybe this is where I become a hypocrite, lol, but I would just rather watch myself pour it into my mixer myself. I, of course, would be open to reading some reviews(the more the better).

 

[kingdong]

Yes, you are reading it wrong.

The part that you are refering to in regard to placebo being higher is during the loading phase (Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE.) before even 7 days of use. This is why I implore you to actually read and study a study.

Oh yeah..and an abstract is just that. It states there were no significant changes between groups. If I were to follow that, it would tell me that creatine in general is useless and I know first hand the contrary as do most people.... and a significant amount of studies since it was introduced to the major market in the early '90's. Abstract.

Fair enough. Having said that, I didn't make my anti-CEE comment because I whanted to talk about CEE. I said it in a dicussion about creatine bloat. How does buffering creatine stop the creatine bloat? Depending on what answer the companies give us, we may have reason to be skepticle.

 

[SonicSWOLE]

Fair enough. Having said that, I didn't make my anti-CEE comment because I whanted to talk about CEE. I said it in a dicussion about creatine bloat. How does buffering creatine stop the creatine bloat? Depending on what answer the companies give us, we may have reason to be skepticle.

Good question. I think it comes down to whether we are discussing GI bloat or water retention. My thought on the latter, is that creatines mechanism(for volumization, not ATP production) is entirely dependent upon water retention. If a creatine doesn't do that... I don't want it. Now, the GI issue....well, that's a bit harder as everybody's gut is a little different( I don't get heartburn ever, some people get it from tomato sauce).

 

[kingdong]

Agreed. I try to avoid GI bloat, but water in the muscle is something I whant. In fact, I still don't think it's been proven that creatine causes water OVER the muscle. Just in it.