Millenium's Cordyceps absolutely useless??

[holicst]

Hi,

I've read some good reviews on Cordyceps based supplements from Millenium Sport Technologies. However, after a short research on PubMed, I've stumbled upon the following articles

(sorry but I can't post links since I don't have enough posts in the forum.. so I have the pubmed IDs):

Effects of a commercial herbal-based formula on exercise performance in cyclists.:

PMID: 15076794

"CONCLUSION: A 2-wk ingestion schema of a commercial herbal-based formula is insufficient to elicit positive changes in cycling performance."

Cordyceps Sinensis (CordyMax Cs-4) supplementation does not improve endurance exercise performance.:

PMID: 15118196

"It is concluded that 5 weeks of CordyMax Cs-4 supplementation has no effect on aerobic capacity or endurance exercise performance in endurance-trained male cyclists."


Cordyceps sinensis- and Rhodiola rosea-based supplementation in male cyclists and its effect on muscle tissue oxygen saturation.:

PMID: 15903375

"There were no significant (p </= 0.05) differences in Sto(2) slope, Sto(2) threshold (Sto(2T)), Vo(2)max, ventilatory threshold (V(T)), or time to exhaustion (T(E)) between or within the treatment or control group. In conclusion, Cs-Rr did not significantly enhance Sto(2)."


So... what is the truth? Can anyone give some advice?

Thanks,
Tamas

 

[strategicmove]

All Cordyceps products are not created equal. Cordygen5 is best-in-class. See why (Cordygen5 write-up):

"Cordygen5 incorporates 100% organic, highly concentrated extracts of five strains & four species of cordyceps for maximum oxygen utilization, cellular energy, stamina and ATP production. Cordygen5's oxygen utilization enhancing effects have been touted by many users as a natural, legal and effective alternative to EPO. Cordygen5 is the strongest performance enhancing cordyceps product on the market and may provide up to 30% increases in ATP and up to 40% increases in oxygen utilization. Cordygen5 is perfect for anyone who wants to increase their ATP levels but doesn't want to consume creatine due to its common side effects.

Cordygen5 is also ideal for anyone who is a non responder to creatine products but still wants reap its benefits. The added bonus is the tremendous increase in oxygen utilization that Cordygen5 provides. Cordygen5 will allow all athletes, amateur or professional to break through their aerobic and anaerobic plateaus, maximizing strength and endurance. Whether you are a bodybuilder, powerlifter, martial artist, triathlete, cyclist, runner, swimmer, skier, snowboarder, hunter, climber, wrestler, golfer, tennis, football, basketball, hockey or baseball player, you'll maximize your performance with Cordygen5.

Cordygen5 is a pure, solid state fermented, super potent blend of extracts from four strains and five species of cordyceps including Cordyceps Sinensis Alohaensis Hybrid, CS4 strain Cordyceps Sinensis, Cordyceps Militaris, Cordyceps Sobolifera and Cordyceps Ophioglossoides. The Cordyceps Sinensis Alohaensis Hybrid strain contains the highest HEAA (Hydroxy Ethyl Adenosine Analogs) levels ever measured and biological active ingredient levels about 5.3 times higher than the best wild collected samples. The potency of the Cordygen5 cordyceps blend comes from the proprietary combination of cordyceps strains and the way these strains are cultured and extracted.

Almost all cordyceps strains are cultured in a process called liquid cultivation or fermentation. This process uses a liquid substrate to grow the cordyceps mycelium in a very speedy 5-18 days, yielding low levels of active constituents. The cordyceps mycelium is then harvested by filtering out the liquid medium, drying it and grinding it into a powder. By filtering out the liquid medium many of the quality compounds secreted by the cordyceps are lost. It is usually further processed using hot water or solvents resulting in the loss of nearly 90% of the active constituents of which it had few of to begin with due to the fast liquid culturing process.

Cordygen5 is grown using a solid state (solid substrate) or biomass method. This is a much slower culturing method where the cordyceps is grown on a sterilized solid medium such as organic grain. The cordyceps is allowed to consume the solid substrate while being subjected to temperature and gas changes (O2 and CO2) to simulate its native high altitude conditions. This process typically takes between 22 and 24 weeks (nearly 6 months) before the cordyceps is ready for harvest. When the cordyceps mycelium is ready to harvest it has consumed more than 98% of the solid medium in which it was cultured on.

The residual substrate is then removed yielding 100% pure, super potent cordyceps material with extremely high concentrations of active constituents from every facet of its life cycle. The cordyceps is then extracted & concentrated to increase it's potency up to 20X. This process allows Cordygen5 to exceed the potency of other cordyceps products on the market by up to 95%.

Tibetan Sherpas use cordyceps to enhance energy production and oxygen utilization when climbing Mt. Everest. In 1993 the Chinese Women's National Track Team used cordyceps to set nine world records, three by staggering margins. In this country its use has been researched for it's enhancement of energy production with applications in athletic performance and fatigue. Cordyceps has been clinically proven to enhance ATP production, increase oxygen utilization, improve VO2 Max, increase SOD (Super Oxide Dismutase) activity, support immune function, support healthy kidney function, support healthy cholesterol levels, protect the liver and improve glucose metabolism. One study even suggests that cordyceps may improve testosterone production in leydig cells."

See full write-up:
Cordygen5 (90 caps) By: Millennium Sport Technologies

 

[JaredGalloway]

I could careless what and who tries to prove that cordyceps is NOT an effective supplement...because from real world experience it works GREAT for me and i will keep buying it..

 

[MoTiV]

I use Cordygen5 but not on a consistent basis, I will tell you that it works great for me for long heavy bag workouts and sprints.

 

[gmc4180]

I could careless what and who tries to prove that cordyceps is NOT an effective supplement...because from real world experience it works GREAT for me and i will keep buying it..

Exactly.. To the OP do yourself a favor and buy a bottle of Cordygen 5. Go for a run.. You will see immediatley why people absolutely love this stuff.

 

[Ev52]

I can tell you first hand that this stuff works. When I am in peak triathlon training, there is a major diffrence the days I am on cordygen5 or VO2.

 

[holicst]

I would be the happiest if it would really work. I was almost ready to order a few bottles before I found those publications.

How about the companies other products?
Citruvol-XS, Carnage, KreaCeps-XS, Cordygen-VO2??

I seek supplements for soccer, so both aerobic and anaerobic endurance are important.

Thanks for the replies,
Tamas

 

[Ev52]

The cordygen5 is slow released and will last you all day. If you want a concentrated boost, for a soccer game go with the VO2

 

[poison]

Yeah, useless:

An experimental study on anti-aging action of Cordyceps extract
Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi. 2004 Aug;29(8):773-6.
To investigate anti-aging effect and mechanism of Cordyceps extract on aged mice induced by D-galactose. The aged mice were induced by D-galactose. Meanwhile, they were treated with three doses of Cordyceps extract. Cordyceps extract significantly increased the ability of learning and memory, improve the activity of SOD of red blood cells, brain and liver, the activity of CAT and GSH-Px of blood, and remarkably decreased the activity of MAO of brain and the contents of MDA of brain and liver. Cordyceps extract has good anti-aging effects on aged mice, which is probably due to effects of improving antioxidation and removing free radicals.

Induction of HL-60 apoptosis by ethyl acetate extract of Cordyceps sinensis fungal mycelium.
Life Sci. 2004 Oct 29;75(24):2911-9.
The cultivated mycelium of a Cordyceps sinensis fungus was sequentially extracted by petroleum ether, ethyl acetate (EtOAc), ethanol and water. The EtOAc Cordyceps sinensis extract showed the most potent cytotoxic effect against the proliferation of human premyelocytic leukemia cell HL-60, with an ED50 < or = 25 microg/ml for 2-day treatment. The EtOAc extract induced the characteristic apoptotic symptoms in the HL-60 cells, DNA fragmentation and chromatin condensation, occurring within 6-8 h of treatment at a dose of 200 microg/ml. These results suggest that the Cordyceps sinensis mycelium extract inhibited the cancer cell proliferation by inducing cell apoptosis.

In vivo stimulatory effect of Cordyceps sinensis mycelium and its fractions on reproductive functions in male mouse.
Life Sci. 2004 Jul 16;75(9):1051-62.
Cordyceps sinensis, an Ascomycetes fungus parasitic to Lepidoptera larvae, has been traditionally used as nutritious food for the enhancement on sexual performance and the restitution of impairment in sexual function in Chinese society. We have previously demonstrated the stimulatory effect of Cordyceps sinensis and its fractions on steroidogenesis both on primary mouse Leydig cells and MA-10 mouse Leydig tumor cells. In the present studies, we determined the in vivo effects of Cordyceps sinensis and its fractions on steroidogenesis in mouse. Different concentrations of CS and Cordyceps sinensis fractions (0.02 and 0.2 mg/g body weight) were fed to immature or mature mice from 1 to 7 days. The plasma levels of testosterone were evaluated by radioimmunoassay. The weights of reproductive organs were also determined. Results illustrated that Cordyceps sinensis significantly induced plasma testosterone levels both in immature and mature mice in 3 and/or 7 days treatment (p < 0.05). F2 and F3 at 0.02 and/or 0.2 mg/g body weight for different feeding duration could also significantly stimulated plasma testosterone levels both in immature and mature mice. In general, Cordyceps sinensis, F2 and F3 didn't have considerable effect on the weights of reproductive organs. Taken together, these studies illustrate that Cordyceps sinensis and its fractions significantly stimulated in vivo mouse testosterone production.

A polysaccharide isolated from Cordyceps sinensis, a traditional Chinese medicine, protects PC12 cells against hydrogen peroxide-induced injury.
Life Sci. 2003 Sep 26;73(19):2503-13.
Cordyceps sinensis, a well-known traditional Chinese medicine, possesses activities in anti-tumour, anti-oxidation and stimulating the immune system; however, the identity of active component(s) is not determined. By using anti-oxidation activity-guided fractionation, a polysaccharide of molecular weight approximately 210 kDa was isolated from cultured Cordyceps mycelia by ion-exchange and sizing chromatography. The isolated polysaccharide, having strong anti-oxidation activity, contains glucose, mannose and galactose in a ratio of 1 : 0.6 : 0.75. The pre-treatment of isolated polysaccharide on the cultured rat pheochromocytoma PC12 cells shows strong protective effect against hydrogen peroxide (H(2)O(2))-induced insult. Treatment of the cells with the isolated polysaccharide at 100 microg/ml prior to H(2)O(2) exposure significantly elevated the survival of PC12 cells in culture by over 60%. In parallel, the H(2)O(2)-induced production of malondialdehyde in cultured cells was markedly reduced by the polysaccharide treatment. Moreover, the pre-treatment of the isolated polysaccharide significantly attenuated the changes of glutathione peroxidase and superoxide dismutase activities in H(2)O(2)-treated cells in a dose-dependent manner. This is the first report in identifying a polysaccharide from Cordyceps, which protects against the free radical-induced neuronal cell toxicity.

In vivo and in vitro stimulatory effects of Cordyceps sinensis on testosterone production in mouse Leydig cells.
Life Sci. 2003 Sep 5;73(16):2127-36.
The in vivo and in vitro effects of Cordyceps sinensis and its extracted fractions on the secretion of testosterone in mice were studied. Cordyceps sinensis, F2 (water soluble protein), and F3 (poorly water soluble polysaccharide and protein) significantly stimulated in vitro testosterone production in purified mouse Leydig cells. However, F1 (water soluble polysaccharide) had no effect. F2 and F3 stimulated in vitro testosterone production in dose- and time-dependent relationships with maximal responses at 3 mg/ml for 3 h. An in vivo study illustrated that testosterone levels in plasma were significantly increased by Cordyceps sinensis, F2, and F3, respectively. Because Cordyceps sinensis, F2, and F3 stimulated both in vitro and in vivo testosterone secretions in mice, it is possible that Cordyceps sinensis might contribute to an alternative medicine for the treatment of some reproductive problems caused by insufficient testosterone levels in human males.

Antifatigue and antistress effect of the hot-water fraction from mycelia of Cordyceps sinensis.
Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 May;26(5):691-4.
This study was conducted to investigate the chemical component of the hot water (HW) fraction of mycelia of Cordyceps sinensis and its antifatigue and antistress effect against a stimulus in vivo using rats and mice. The growth of mycelia reached a maximum level of 31.6 g/l after 120 h of incubation. The main chemical composition of the HW fraction of mycelia of Cordyceps sinensis was found to be carbohydrate (78%) with 5% moisture. The swimming endurance capacity of mice orally administered with the HW fraction (150 and 300 mg/kg/d, respectively) was significantly prolonged from 75 to 90 min with a lessening of fatigue. When the HW fraction (150 mg/kg/d) was given to rats for 8 d including a 48 h stress period, the weight changes of the adrenal gland, spleen, thymus, and thyroid, which is an index of stress, were suppressed. The Cordyceps sinensis HW fraction also significantly inhibited the increase in total cholesterol and the decrease in alkaline phosphatase levels as biochemical parameters of immobilization stress in rats.

Anti-oxidation activity of different types of natural Cordyceps sinensis and cultured Cordyceps mycelia.
Phytomedicine. 2001 May;8(3):207-12.
Cordyceps, one of the well-known traditional Chinese medicines, consists of the dried fungus Cordyceps sinensis growing on the larva of the caterpillar. It is commonly used for the replenishment of body health. One of the known pharmacological effects is its anti-oxidation activity. However, there is a great variation of the quality in different sources of Cordyceps. Here, the water extracts of various sources of natural Cordyceps sinensis and cultured Cordyceps mycelia were analyzed for their anti-oxidation activity by using three different assay methods such as the xanthine oxidase assay, the induction of hemolysis assay and the lipid peroxidation assay. The results showed that Cordyceps, in general, possesses a strong anti-oxidation activity in all assays tested. However, both natural and cultured Cordyceps showed the lowest inhibition in the lipid peroxidation when compared with the other two assay methods. The cultured Cordyceps mycelia had equally strong anti-oxidation activity as compared to the natural Cordyceps. Besides, the anti-oxidation activities were increased to 10-30 folds in the partially purified polysaccharide fractions from the cultured Cordyceps mycelia, which suggested that the activity could be derived partly from Cordyceps polysaccharides.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15182908?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

It's freaking endless. For the record, I bought a bunch of CS4, and found it ineffective. Millennium makes the best cordyceps, period.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

x2 poison! I started with a sample and was sold ever since. Very marked improvement in endurance. MST is the best..

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

MST has always made quality products.

 

[Steveoph]

This thread seems stacked, no need to add to it except to say I've only heard great things about MST's Cordyceps extract.

 

[machinehead]

I didn't feel anything from taking Cordygen5 for two months. I really wanted it for the immunity boost last winter and coincidentally I got sick a couple days after I ran out.

There are very few things I respond to in general.

 

[LatSpread]

Cordygen V02 is among the best preWO supps ever made.

 

[strategicmove]

This thread seems stacked, no need to add to it except to say I've only heard great things about MST's Cordyceps extract.

You should try it! Ask for samples! It is really the best of the best!

 

[justreading]

wish i had the cash for VO2 right now but cordy5 is just so much cheaper and still works

 

[CTDeuce]

I was going to respond to this thread much sooner...but I knew how many people were going to jump on the chance to speak out about Cordygen5/Cordygen v02/Citruvol Xs/Cre02's abilites from our strain of Cordyceps.

Thank you everyone that has continually supported and spoken out about how well our Cordygen products work for you.

to the OP, if you need any advice on what to order for your goals, feel free to PM me at any time and I will be glad to help. As you can see about 15 times over...Cordygen does not fail :thumbsup:

 

[AZMIDLYF]

And failure will take longer...

 

[Highlanda01602]

And failure will NEVER HAPPEN EVAR!!!...

Fixed. Love the V02 blend.

 

[Inarius]

false

 

[mdgrwl]

I purcased bulk cordycepts from Nplanet and can deff feel a difference in my workouts. Not only does it give a physical endrances aspect, but I also feel mentally more engaged and focused.

Looking forward to trying Cordygen5.

 

[getsum27]

is this product something that needs to build up in the system to reap the benefits, or could it be used on selective days only and still have awesome effects? I ask specifically for leg days man, I would need it then!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Of course daily use is prefered but I have noticed a difference from the dosing before a workout...about an hour to an hour and a half prior.

 

[Zero V]

PubMed is evil....

 

[CTDeuce]

is this product something that needs to build up in the system to reap the benefits, or could it be used on selective days only and still have awesome effects? I ask specifically for leg days man, I would need it then!

You could potentially use Cordygen just for your leg days, but as said before, optimal performance will be gained by running it daily even on your off days. On off days I usually split it up for 1 pill x 3 times during the day. Breaks the monotony, haha

 

[thebigt]

cordy5 by mst WORKS. try it before an endurance activity like basketball or tennis. that will be all the proof you need.

 

[07zx6r]

I actually just added some of this to my cart. Can't wait to try it.

 

[Nightwanderer]

I went swimming for like 2 hrs nonstop trying to burn out my endurance and felt great with my cordyceps samples, I remember posting an elated comment here on the boards when I got out of the pool. I burned up so much fuel in the process I remember I ordered a large pizza and ate most if not all of it without feeling over stuffed.

 

[CTDeuce]

I went swimming for like 2 hrs nonstop trying to burn out my endurance and felt great with my cordyceps samples, I remember posting an elated comment here on the boards when I got out of the pool. I burned up so much fuel in the process I remember I ordered a large pizza and ate most if not all of it without feeling over stuffed.

That is INTENSE!! I would have loved to have witnessed the decimation of that pizza!

 

[getsum27]

I just added this to my arsenal as well! can't wait to try it on leg days!!! glad i read this post.

 

[steveironman]

*L* this board is borderline criminal ...well not the board but some posts ...so if u wanna believe that in a medical scientific method study, published test on humans they used an inpure form of a substance as opposed to the substance used by an unregulated supplement manufacturer would use your are crazy. I have never read such nonsense..i mean i know its common practice that when comparing to other products or its known that products dont work supp companies resort to ridiculous claims like well my xyz is different ..its ultra pure...super esterified..... mumbo jumbo bs.....
Then someone else..either a sponsee or some guy who has already spent 100's and 100'sof dollar on the hype and posted here it was good...goes and finds a bunch of rat/mice studies that mean nothing re: humans.....and 1/2 of them just say its a good anti oxidant ...so are vit c &e ...so is grapeseed ...so is acai...

Guys please me smart and educate yourselves before you waste tons of money...JMO ....No personal offense intended to anyone

 

[poison]

WTF are you going on about? Fact: most cordyceps studies used CS4. Fact: Millennium uses a better strain than CS4. These facts don't negate the study or the efficaciousness of Millenniums product (as if when a study is performed, only the best quality, highest potency product is used by default, lawl).

Do yourself a favor and go do your own research on cordyceps, then come back with a bit of knowledge under your belt before spouting off.

 

[steveironman]

*L* i have my opinion ...you have yours .....so you buy the better strain claim? Thats where we differ ...I think its bunk ....and im entitled to say that...but hey if u are all about it by all means spend your $ ( i will not)....
As far as knowledge ...well you just never know how much knowledge the other person posting has do you?

As often is the case in medical testing, esp testing by pharmaceutical supply companies, they use the worse strains that contain least amount of effective compound...are you serious????? get a clue dude....you believe an unregulated, non fda approved claim by a supp manufacturer over a study done to high scientific method standards...using proper protocol ...control subjects etc....for pharmaceutical purposes....*shaking my head*

We will have to agree to disagree ...and 5 years from now when this stuff is proven crap ...remember this thread.... and all the money you wasted....

Its not a personal attack bro ...why did you take it as such ...my opinion stated ...yours stated ..other people decide for themselves...its cool if u disagree with me....

 

[Nightwanderer]

That is INTENSE!! I would have loved to have witnessed the decimation of that pizza!

yeah, I searched for the thread just to see how well I remembered.

1 hr and 58 minutes of swimming at never less than a brisk pace, with maybe a total of 5 minutes overall rest time! I must be getting into decent shape. I finally got out when my hands & face where getting tingly. Sippin' a shake now, Gonna double dose some anabolic pump and eat something carby a bit later.

and then about 3 hrs later

Damn, a 40g shake and 3 slices of pizza later and I'm ravenously hungry right now.

hell, I'm nowhere near in that kind of shape right now. *sigh*

 

[Brother]

*L* i have my opinion ...you have yours .....so you buy the better strain claim? Thats where we differ ...I think its bunk ....and im entitled to say that...but hey if u are all about it by all means spend your $ ( i will not)....

So basically you've never tried it but have an opinion on it? and you dont "buy" the fact that quality makes a difference? I have tried it and it works for me. If you have tried it and it didnt work well all I have to say is welcome to supplements bro.... everyone reacts different. I use MST's MVP, ZMK and Somnidren. Ive been trying a few other things for energy and must say Cordygen5 is as good as it gets for clean focused elivated energy and endurance. I think it rocks.... no personal attack on your opinion man... but it just plain sucks

 

[Brother]

As often is the case in medical testing, esp testing by pharmaceutical supply companies, they use the worse strains that contain least amount of effective compound...are you serious????? get a clue dude....you believe an unregulated, non fda approved claim by a supp manufacturer over a study done to high scientific method standards...using proper protocol ...control subjects etc....for pharmaceutical purposes....*shaking my head*

Yea...the FDA NEVER recalls anything ...they NEVER take kickbacks from Pharm companies and they never try to bury things that they cant make a profit off of. Maybe you need a few clues there FDA boy. The FDA is a scam bro.... dont get me started... Ill kick your ass

 

[steveironman]

you know what lets do this how about they just post the studies on their extract froma reliable reputable lab ....we can compare it to the other reputable studies...then we will know for sure....how about that? I mean they had to figure out this whole "better strain" theory *L* somehow...so let see it ...how did they discover it was better...i mean its obvioulsy through lab testing from a credible lab source or they can really make those claims ...so lets see the comparisons...then you know what ...i might even try it. in the mean time ....my opinion is the same...i really dont feel like im missing out ....

 

[steveironman]

Yea...the FDA NEVER recalls anything ...they NEVER take kickbacks from Pharm companies and they never try to bury things that they cant make a profit off of. Maybe you need a few clues there FDA boy. The FDA is a scam bro.... dont get me started... Ill kick your ass

*L* you are SO clueless now its getting silly ...damn u r protesting alot bro ...whats your interst in this...is it your civic duty ...you believe in this product so much your gonna slam my opinion b/c i think its bs .....somehow i think there is more to your support than that ...or maybe it just is ignorance..... you really think there are more bs prescrition drugs on the market than bs supps? At least you know exactly what is really in a prescription drug ,at least you know it has to do what it promised to do ....through clinical lab testing ,various levels of clinical trails , control groups included , placebo comapraisons , double blind studies...your reaching with the fda stuff....trying to compare prescription products to supps is assenine and a losing proposition .......i'll kick your ass for sure...bank on that......:nono: ;-)

 

[Brother]

*L* you are SO clueless now its getting silly ...damn u r protesting alot bro ...whats your interst in this...is it your civic duty ...you believe in this product so much your gonna slam my opinion b/c i think its bs .....somehow i think there is more to your support than that ...or maybe it just is ignorance..... you really think there are more bs prescrition drugs on the market than bs supps? At least you know exactly what is really in a prescription drug ,at least you know it has to do what it promised to do ....through clinical lab testing ,various levels of clinical trails , control groups included , placebo comapraisons , double blind studies...your reaching with the fda stuff....trying to compare prescription products to supps is assenine and a losing proposition .......i'll kick your ass for sure...bank on that....

w

THe only thing Im banking on is you not shutting your cork suker...FACT. And what exactly is in that perscription? Oh yea the ability to give you another illness that they can sell you another one of their unsynergistic concoctions that they recall 5 years later claiming they dont know ****. Unlike yourself who kno0ws it all and for FREE is willing to educate us witchcratf VooDoo loving junkies. Have at it FDA boy. YOu can choke on them clowns, WHen I was 30 my doctor was trying to get me on all types of perscripions...FDA prescriptions... He didnt talk about healthy eating and exercise.... He seen me as a source of money and him and YOUR FDA said welcome to my sales shack...we'll make an off you cant refuse....Fukin thugs. And that all happened in a blind study....no ****

 

[steveironman]

w

THe only thing Im banking on is you not shutting your cork suker...FACT. And what exactly is in that perscription? Oh yea the ability to give you another illness that they can sell you another one of their unsynergistic concoctions that they recall 5 years later claiming they dont know ****. Unlike yourself who kno0ws it all and for FREE is willing to educate us witchcratf VooDoo loving junkies. Have at it FDA boy. YOu can choke on them clowns, WHen I was 30 my doctor was trying to get me on all types of perscripions...FDA prescriptions... He didnt talk about healthy eating and exercise.... He seen me as a source of money and him and YOUR FDA said welcome to my sales shack...we'll make an off you cant refuse....Fukin thugs. And that all happened in a blind study....no ****

*L* yeah cause the fda is selling the drugs right ???cmon ...your doc sucked..get another one...and the fda doesnt do these studies the pharamceutical companies do..the only blind study you were in is the one where you bought the mushroom extract these guys are selling blindly buying the bs claims!
nice conspiracy theory bs ...prob better to put your faith in unsubstatiated ingredient claims...unmonitored content claims....unenforced product claims.....and marketing bs with no clinical trials, lab tests or proof ( no wait it works in mice in japan im sorry *L*)...yeah thats much smarter......so if u ever need androgen replacement b/c u get testicular cancer...lemme guess ...trib will do it for ya *l* or wait even better tyroid trouble AND androgen replacement hell just take this product you love so much ..... taht will work right bro ...save it ...we can just be done...time will tell re your mushroom extract from the Himalayas *L*

 

[CTDeuce]

SteveIronMan...please let me know if you've tried a Cordygen product. By what you're saying it sounds like you definitely have not. You'd literally be the first person i've ever seen that feels that Cordygen does not work...and also the first person that does not feel after using it that Cordygen is not a better product than bulk cordyceps powders.

Please just answer that question and then we can move forward :thumbsup:

 

[thebigt]

i have a pdr that is 4 years old. halotestin, androgel and all androgen's do not improve athletic performance and may cause serious side effects. this is quoted from the book, and the part about not effecting athletic performance is because they intentionally lied. it's not the first time the fda/pharmaceutical industry have collaborated in lies to the public.

 

[Brother]

I think you may be missing my point Steveironhead.... the FDA has and will let the public, for monetary reason, use products that are bad for them. As much as you would love to put your faith in them they let you down. Come on buddy... you need a huge. Its ok, I understand. Im not going to argue with you that their arn't legit drugs as well because just like supplements...there are good and bad. Im just saying Cor5 is a really good product. So take your raisen nuts back to the FDA website and squeeze one off for Pfizer bro.

 

[JaredGalloway]

I think next time u post how a product doesnt work u need to have a better attitude...it kinda sounded like u were attacking the product from ur first post...and u should try it...

 

[steveironman]

I think next time u post how a product doesnt work u need to have a better attitude...it kinda sounded like u were attacking the product from ur first post...and u should try it...

This is a very valid point i will take heed of.....I have expressed my opinion (in too abrasive a manner-agreed).....apparently it ruffled alot of feathers....everyone has their own ideas and requirements for choosing supplementation .... make your own choice......

"brother" save the personal insults and attacks ...grow up ...i attacked a product i dont feel has merit (one can only wonder why u took that so personally hmmm).....grow up.


The purpose of the thread was to give opinion on a product...not on a person ..i gave mine on a product now for some reason it is about personal opinion of my personal opinion ...pretty stupid imo ....and it makes me wonder why the need to do that??? anyway ive given my opinion on the product...you gave yours..im mature enough to move on...you???

 

[Brother]

Just my opinion on your opinion man. Didnt mean to hurt your feelings. I should have known your estrogen was high by your previous posts ... my bad

 

[CTDeuce]

This is a very valid point i will take heed of.....I have expressed my opinion (in too abrasive a manner-agreed).....apparently it ruffled alot of feathers....everyone has their own ideas and requirements for choosing supplementation .... make your own choice......

"brother" save the personal insults and attacks ...grow up ...i attacked a product i dont feel has merit (one can only wonder why u took that so personally hmmm).....grow up.


The purpose of the thread was to give opinion on a product...not on a person ..i gave mine on a product now for some reason it is about personal opinion of my personal opinion ...pretty stupid imo ....and it makes me wonder why the need to do that??? anyway ive given my opinion on the product...you gave yours..im mature enough to move on...you???

Steve, have you used any products in the Cordygen line? That will help me greatly to understand your opinion on the matter. Thank you.

 

[steveironman]

i dont require anyones understanding of my opinion ..thats why its opinion *L* if u read my above post i will tone down the percieved attacking nature of my posts ...i no longer wanna feed into threads that have taken on this tone ..the said she said and then some more immature members resorting to personal attacks...i will raise the quality level of my posts and take the "edge" off my opinions...and not feel any need to justify them ...nor will expect other to justify theirs....

 

[CTDeuce]

i dont require anyones understanding of my opinion ..thats why its opinion *L* if u read my above post i will tone down the percieved attacking nature of my posts ...i no longer wanna feed into threads that have taken on this tone ..the said she said and then some more immature members resorting to personal attacks...i will raise the quality level of my posts and take the "edge" off my opinions...and not feel any need to justify them ...nor will expect other to justify theirs....

So what you're saying is that you don't intend to be abrasive any longer...but you still won't clarify if you've used a product that you claim is a poor product because that is an opinion of yours in which you do not have to defend? Just making sure :thumbsup:

 

[SwolenONE]

as ive stated previously in this thread ive had tremendous results with c5 and c v02.

Just thought I'd share for any doubters, get yourself the tiny bottle of v02 for ten bucks, and stack a half serving (3 pills) with any preWO stim containing product of your choice and you will see that the energy from the stim lasts, while the faster breathing and other sides diminish.

Stacking a half serving vo2 w/ top notch preWO product of your choice (Anadraulic State, jp8, shotgun v3) will make you a believer (of course you must have used the preWO product previously in order to access the difference)

In my own usage i've found c5 to be among the most effective and economic supps around, and i tend to only use 2 tabs pre cardio. And have found for me the vo2 is better for weight training, and ive never once needed the full 6 cap serving.

But of course, as always, haters wanna hate.