arginine akg 2:1
- 11-16-2008, 09:13 PM
- 11-16-2008, 09:14 PM
whats the 2:1???? never heard of this.... just reg AAKG (arginine alpha ketogluterate)
- 11-16-2008, 09:41 PM
11-16-2008, 09:44 PM
What do you want arginine for again? Did you see my post on arginine not proven to increase NO production.
11-16-2008, 09:45 PM
hmmm I suppose its reg old AAKG then.
I would dose 9g ed(3gx3) 30min before a meal containing complex carbs. THEN bump up to 12g ed(4gx3) after a week or so.
I would also take some creatine with this product prob 15 min after the AAKG and 15 min before eating take in 3-5g 2-3 times ed.
11-16-2008, 09:47 PM
11-16-2008, 09:50 PM
GLPC is the only amino in clinical's to increase NO which is the PUMPED feeling. GlycoCarn(gycine propionyl l-carnitine), engorging muscles with nutrient filled blood. While other pre-workout formulas i.e arginine base their N.O. claims from intravenous, rat or cell studies, GlycoCarn is the FIRST ingredient shown in research to actually increase nitric oxide synthesis in HUMANS when taken orally. One mechanism this ingredient is believed to bring about vasodilation is through inhibition of NADPH oxidase activation and increasing eNOS.
11-16-2008, 09:55 PM
The first study to use GPLC involved previously sedentary men and women...
Nitric oxide (NO), initially known as endothelium, is biosynthesized within the body from L-arginine and oxygen... Exciting new study shows that GPLC improved NOx levels. Looking for improved vasodilation? Read on!
By: Sigma-tau HealthScience
Nitric Oxide Stimulating Dietary Supplements
Introducing Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine (GPLC)
What Is Nitric Oxide?
Nitric oxide (NO), initially known as endothelium derived relaxing factor (EDRF), is biosynthesized within the body from L-arginine and oxygen by a variety of nitric oxide synthase enzymes (Collier and Vallance, 1991). Nitric oxide is a gaseous chemical compound that acts as an important signaling molecule within the human body.
Nitric oxide has been shown to decrease platelet and leukocyte adhesion, as well as to decrease the proliferation of smooth muscle cells. These effects are important within blood vessels.
Recent evidence also indicates that NO may be involved in both glucose and fatty acid oxidation (Jobgen et al., 2006). Although, perhaps the most well studied effect of NO is in facilitating vasodilation (opening of blood vessels).
Nitric Oxide is a free form gas that is produced in the body and is used by the body to communicate with other cells in the body.
The endothelium (inner layer) of blood vessels is involved in NO production, which acts on vascular smooth muscle cells to promote vasodilation. For this reason alone, nitric oxide has received considerable attention over the past 20+ years from scientists. In fact, NO was recognized as "molecule of the year" by Science in 1992. Additionally, the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded in 1998 to Robert Furchgott, Louis Ignarro, and Ferid Murad for their discoveries related to NO.
Over the past 5 years in particular, NO has received a great deal of attention from health and fitness enthusiasts, as well as from sports supplement companies who widely market products claiming to increase NO production. In this regard, the primary desired effect is the potential increase in blood flow.
Exercise And Nitric Oxide:
The demands for increased blood flow with acute strenuous exercise are significant. Although several mechanisms are available to allow for optimal blood flow redistribution with acute exercise, NO indeed plays a major role.
While supplement companies market products targeted at increasing NO, it should be understood by readers that both acute and chronic exercise have been reported to increase circulating NO. This is often determined by the combined measurement of nitrate+nitrite (NOx), which are stable products of the rapidly degraded NO.
Specifically, blood concentrations of NO increase in response to strenuous single bouts of exercise (Bode-Boger et al., 1994; Clarkson et al., 1999), a finding that is evident for both dynamic (Hickner et al., 1997) as well as for isometric (Gilligan et al., 1994) exercise.
Studies involving chronic exercise training performed 3-4 days per week have also noted an increase in resting levels of NO, as measured by NOx (Edwards et al., 2004; Poveda et al., 1997; Tordi et al., 2006).
What this means is that individuals who exercise on a regular basis have an enhanced production of NO at rest, which may help explain some of the positive health and performance outcomes apparent in exercise trained compared to sedentary individuals.
Obviously, if enhancing NO is of importance, regular structured exercise should be a component of an individual's routine, regardless of the use of NO stimulating supplements.
Regular Structured Exercise Should Be
A Component Of An Individual's Routine.
Traditional Drugs/Dietary Supplements & Nitric Oxide
Aside from exercise, pharmaceutical agents have been used with success to induce NO biosynthesis, with the end goal of promoting vasodilation (Burgaud et al., 2003). Such agents are often used in response to various types of health problems.
In some studies, treatments have included high dosages of the NO precursor amino acid, L-arginine, which has been delivered via intravenous injection (at least in those studies demonstrating a benefit).
Arginine is a semi-essential amino acid. It is a building block of protein that performs a myriad of physiological functions. It is a known precursor of the gas nitric oxide.
A simple review of those studies that do report a potential benefit of L-arginine in this regard is what constitutes the "research" performed by
most supplement companies marketing NO stimulating products. Indeed, actual testing of the various products of sale using a controlled research design is, for the most part, nonexistent.
It is evident that the majority of such products contain various forms of L-arginine as the chief ingredient. Unfortunately, as discussed below, this may not be appropriate when considering all variables know to affect the response to L-arginine treatment (e.g., dosage, route of administration, species studied).
Equally important, although L-arginine is the precursor to NO biosynthesis, it has been suggested that this amino acid is not the rate limiting component (Kurz and Harrison, 1997) and that nitric oxide synthase enzymes may be most important to NO biosynthesis. Therefore, adding excess L-arginine may do little to promote increased NO production, as most individuals already have adequate L-arginine available for NO biosynthesis. What they may need is an increase in certain enzymes that appear to ultimately control NO production.
The supposed "effect" that individuals may experience when using many of the marketed products may be more dependent on the sugar contained within the product, as opposed to the L-arginine. This is because sugar intake results in an insulin spike, and insulin itself has been shown to yield a vasodilating effect (Giugliano et al., 1997; Steinberg et al., 1994).
Other Insulin Articles...
Despite this, it is evident that dietary supplements marketed to increase NO production are rampant within the supplement industry. In fact, a quick scan of many of the popular bodybuilding magazines indicates that in any given month there can be more than 30 pages of advertisements that focus solely on this particular class of supplements!
As with many dietary supplements, the scientific evidence for effect for these products is virtually nonexistent. Of course, some of the chief ingredients found within some of these products may have been shown to result in a measurable increase in NO or an increase in blood flow. But a careful review of the original investigations indicates that the dosing suggested by the manufacturer of the product is often FAR less than that used in the original investigation.
More importantly, the route of administration is often different. That is, many original investigations using a given ingredient have used intravenous injection and not oral intake, as is being marketed by supplement companies.
This is of particular importance, as L-arginine at an oral dosage of only 10 grams per day has been noted to have an unpleasant taste and in some cases result in [temporary side effects] (Robinson et al., 2003).
L-Arginine. When IS The Best Time To Take?
I'd like your opinion on when (if at all) it's best to take L-Arginine.
It has also been reported that oral intake of L-arginine of 20+ grams per day results in arginine absorption that is highly variable across subjects, and does not result in any significant increase in vasodilation (Adams et al., 1995; Chin-Dusting et al., 1996), unlike findings from many studies involving intravenous injection.
Other work involving direct comparisons between intravenous and oral intake of L-arginine agrees with these findings (Bode-Boger et al., 1998), indicating no effect of oral L-arginine intake on vasodilation, partly due the fact that oral L-arginine bioavailability is only ~68%.
Based on the available evidence, it seems unlikely that oral L-arginine intake will result in any improvement in blood flow. Lastly, some of the original investigations have used animals (typically rodents) as test subjects and not humans, or have involved experiments in vitro (i.e., outside of a living organism).
Generalizations to humans cannot always be made from such studies. Collectively, the fact remains that no nutritional supplements marketed to increase NO have been shown in a controlled laboratory study involving human subjects to increase blood levels of NO. That is, until recently.
Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine & Nitric Oxide
Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine (GPLC) is a USP grade dietary ingredient which consists of a molecular bonded form of propionyl-L-carnitine and one of the carnitine precursor amino acids, glycine. It is marketed as GlycoCarn® through Sigma-tau HealthScience.
Two recent studies have demonstrated an increase in blood levels of NOx with oral GPLC intake, at a daily dosage of 4.5 grams (Bloomer et al., 2007; in press). These findings agree with other recent work using PLC exclusively (Lofreddo et al., 2007) which demonstrated an increase in blood NOx in response to 6 grams per day of PLC given via intravenous infusion.
Two Recent Studies Have Demonstrated An Increase
In Blood Levels Of NOx With Oral GPLC Intake.
The first study to use GPLC involved previously sedentary men and women who were assigned to supervised aerobic exercise with or without treatment for eight weeks (Bloomer et al., in press).
A significant increase in resting levels of blood NOx was noted for subjects receiving GPLC compared to placebo (in a double blind design). Subjects who received GPLC were also noted as having lower levels of lipid peroxidation, a measure of free radical mediated oxidation of lipids. This is important, as increased free radical production is associated with impaired NO bioavailability.
The second study to use GPLC involved resistance trained men who were assigned to GPLC and a placebo for four weeks each, with a two week washout period between each four week phase—also using a double blind design (Bloomer et al., 2007).
At the end of each four week phase, resting blood samples were obtained, in addition to blood samples following static forearm exercise (used to induce a further increase in NO). Blood NOx was noted to be higher in response to the forearm exercise with GPLC compared to placebo, a finding that may have implications related to enhanced blood flow during acute bouts of exercise.
Need For Further Research
If a given oral dietary supplement is in fact capable of stimulating an increase in circulating NO (to date, GPLC is the only such ingredient reported in the scientific literature to do so), to observe a desired effect it must be assumed that:
The increase in circulating NO will cause an increase in blood flow to working skeletal muscle.
The increase in blood flow will be associated with an increase in oxygen and nutrient delivery.
The increase in oxygen and nutrient delivery will promote:
An increase in work capacity during exercise.
Enhanced recovery post exercise.
Study pertaining to these variables in human subjects using this class of nutritional supplements is indeed in its infancy. Continued work over the next couple of years will hopefully provide new insight into addressing these interesting and important issues.
Click To Enlarge.
The Increase In Oxygen And Nutrient Delivery
Will Promote Enhanced Recovery Post Exercise.
It is well documented that NO acts in blood vessel dilation and improved blood flow. For athletes and fitness enthusiasts, this is essential because greater blood flow is associated with increased oxygen and nutrient delivery to skeletal muscle.
This may be important both during the exercise bout (to aid in performance and to improve the muscle "pump"), as well as during the recovery period (to aid in nutrient delivery to help facilitate exercise recovery). In this way, products aimed at increasing NO may prove helpful.
The Importance Of The Pump!
As with most profound physiological processes, the pump results from the complex interplay of a number of related functions.
To date, GPLC is the only dietary ingredient reported to promote such an effect, which may be enhanced if consumed with carbohydrate rich meals, as insulin has been shown to promote vasodilation (Giugliano et al., 1997; Steinberg et al., 1994) and to enhance carnitine retention (Stephens et al., 2006; 2007), which may apply to GPLC (a novel form of carnitine).
Continued research on this ingredient will provide additional information pertaining to the potential for enhanced blood flow, and subsequent enhanced performance and recovery associated with exercise.
Adams MR, Forsyth CJ, Jessup W, Robinson J, Celermajer DS. Oral arginine inhibits platelet aggregation but does not enhance endothelium-dependent dilation in healthy young men. J Amer Col Cardiology. 1995;26(4):1054-61.
Bloomer RJ, Smith WA, Fisher-Wellman KH. Glycine propionyl-L-carnitine increases plasma nitrate/nitrite in resistance trained men. J Int Soc Sports Nutr 2007;4(1):22.
Bloomer RJ, Tschume LC, Smith WA: Glycine propionyl-L-carnitine modulates lipid peroxidation and nitric oxide in human subjects. Int J Vitam Nutr Res, In Press.
Bode-Boger SM, Boger RH, Galland A, Tsikas D, Frolich J. L-arginine-induced vasodilation in healthy humans: pharmacokinetic-pharmacodynamic relationship. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1998;46(5):489-497.
Bode-Boger SM, Boger RH, Scroder EP, Frolich JC: Exercise increases systemic nitric oxide production in men. J Cardiovasc Risk 1994, 1: 173-178.
Burgaud JL, Ongini E, Del Soldato P: Nitric oxide-releasing drugs: a novel class of effective and safe therapeutic agents. Ann N Y Acad Sci 2002, 962: 360-71.
Chin-Dusting JP, Alexander CT, Arnold PJ, Hodgson WC, Lux AS, Jennings GL. Effects of in vivo and in vitro L-arginine supplementation on healthy human vessels. J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 1996;28(1):158-166.
Clarkson P, Montgomery HE, Mullen MJ, Donald AE, Powe AJ, Bull T, Jubb M, World M, Deanfield JE: Exercise training enhances endothelial function in young men. J Am Coll Cardiol 1999, 33: 1379-1385.
Collier J, Vallance P: Physiological importance of nitric oxide. BMJ 1991, 32: 1289-1290.
Edwards DG, Schofield RS, Lennon SL, Pierce GL, Nichols WW, Braith RW: Effect of exercise training on endothelial function in men with coronary artery disease. Am J Cardiol 2004, 93(5): 617-20.
Gilligan DM, Panza JA, Kilcoyne CM, Waclawiw MA, Casino PR, Quyyumi AA: Contribution of endothelium-derived nitric oxide to exercise-induced vasodilation. Circulation 1994, 90: 2853-2858.
Giugliano D, Marfella R, Verrazzo G, Acampora R, Coppola L, Cozzolino D, D'Onofrio F. The vascular effects of L-Arginine in humans. The role of endogenous insulin. J Clin Invest. 1997, 99(3): 433-438.
Hickner RC, Fisher JS, Ehsani AA, Kohrt WM: Role of nitric oxide in skeletal muscle blood flow at rest and during dynamic exercise in humans. Am J Physiol 1997, 273(1 Pt 2): H405-410.
Jobgen WS, Fried SK, Fu WJ, Meininger CJ, Wu G. Regulatory role for the arginine-nitric oxide pathway in metabolism of energy substrates. J Nutr Biochem. 2006;9:571-588.
Kurz S, Harrison DG. Insulin and the arginine paradox. J Clin Invest. 1997;99:369-370.
Loffredo L, Marcoccia A, Pignatelli P, Andreozzi P, Borgia MC, Cangemi R, Chiarotti F, Violi F: Oxidative-stress-mediated arterial dysfunction in patients with peripheral arterial disease. Eur Heart J 2007, 28(5): 608-612.
Poveda JJ, Riestra A, Salas E, Cagigas ML, Lopez-Somoza C, Amado JA, Berrazueta JR: Contribution of nitric oxide to exercise-induced changes in healthy volunteers: effects of acute exercise and long-term physical training. Eur J Clin Invest 1997, 27(11): 967-971.
Robinson TM, Sewell DA, Greenhaff PL. L-arginine ingestion after rest and exercise: effects on glucose disposal. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003;35:1309-1315.
Steinberg HO, Brechtel G, Johnson A, Fineberg N, Baron AD. Insulin-mediated skeletal muscle vasodilation is nitric oxide dependent. A novel action of insulin to increase nitric oxide release. Clin Invest. 1994;94(3):1172-1179.
Stephens FB, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Laithwaite D, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL: Insulin stimulates L-carnitine accumulation in human skeletal muscle. FASEB J 2006, 20(2): 377-379.
Stephens FB, Evans CE, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Greenhaff PL: Carbohydrate ingestion augments L-carnitine retention in humans. J Appl Physiol 2007, 102(3): 1065-1070.
Tordi N, Colin E, Mourot L, Bouhaddi M, Regnard J, Laurant P: Effects of resuming endurance training on arterial stiffness and nitric oxide production during exercise in elite cyclists. Appl Physiol Nutr Metab 2006, 31(3): 244-249.
11-16-2008, 09:58 PM
that looks like a marketing study to me more then anything... where did you get this from again?
11-16-2008, 10:02 PM
body building dot com has a article and pub med also. http://proteinfactory.com/articles/i...d=239&Itemid=0 also has a article not sure if thats sourcing but if it is take it down. http://astss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=117
11-16-2008, 10:10 PM
I got 6 bottles of pre surge. So far its not bad.
11-16-2008, 10:38 PM
hmmm well its def worth a chance.
anyone else offer this in their product? is it in bulk anywhere yet?
11-16-2008, 10:40 PM
Ya i just wanna get some increased pumps and endurance from this product. I have read god reviews but i guess there are some bad ones too
11-17-2008, 12:02 AM
Bulk not sure but there are few companies now that started to incorporate it in to there product or just licensed it and sells it as is. So far I like it. I mean if the clinical validate it than can't hurt. At least its clinically proven to increase NO for people that want that PUMP feeling. They have a legit amino to take.
11-17-2008, 05:07 AM
Product Educator | USPowders
Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
11-17-2008, 11:46 AM
Read the Real Science
1. Nathan C. Nitric oxide as a secretory product of mammalian cells. FASEB J 1992 6(12):3051-64.
2. Mayer B; Hemmens B. Biosynthesis and action of nitric oxide in mammalian cells. Trends Biochem Sci 1997 22(12):477-81.
3. Janabi N; Chabrier S; Tardieu M. Endogenous nitric oxide activates prostaglandin F2 alpha production in human microglial cells but not in astrocytes: a study of interactions between eicosanoids, nitric oxide, and superoxide anion (O2-) regulatory pathways. J Immunol 1996 1;157(5):2129-35.
4. Esposito C; Cozzolino A; Porta R; Mariniello L; Buommino E; Morelli F; Metafora V; Metafora S. Protein SV-IV promotes nitric oxide production not associated with apoptosis in murine macrophages. Eur J Cell Biol 2002 81(4):185-96.
5. Eckmann L; Laurent F; Langford TD; Hetsko ML; Smith JR; Kagnoff MF; Gillin FD. Nitric oxide production by human intestinal epithelial cells and competition for arginine as potential determinants of host defense against the lumen-dwelling pathogen Giardia lamblia. J Immunol 2000 1;164(3):1478-87.
6. Kelly RA; Smith TW. Nitric oxide and nitrovasodilators: similarities, differences, and interactions. Am J Cardiol 1996 30;77(13):2C-7C.
7. Stryer L. Biochemistry 4th Ed. Freeman & Co. 1997.
11-17-2008, 11:52 AM
Product Educator | USPowders
Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
11-17-2008, 11:57 AM
Show me a human clinical study that shows this. I quote
"Arginine alpha-ketogluterate is the “active” ingredient reported by one company that sells this type of supplement. It is claimed that this compound increases and maintains a constantly high level of nitric oxide in muscle. Nitric oxide is synthesized within the body using the amino acid arginine, the energy cyclic substrate NADPH, and oxygen. Nitric oxide diffuses freely across membranes but it is a transient signaling molecule. Nitric oxide is by nature, a highly reactive gas that has an extremely short life – less than a few seconds. While there is a lot of research on the effects of nitric oxide, there is no research that shows supplementation with arginine alpha-ketogluterate increases or sustains nitric oxide levels in any human or animal organs." Not a single study to support these claims. The fact is, there is no science supporting any of the claims made for so-called nitric oxide supplements. There is no science showing they have any effect on nitric oxide levels and certainly no science showing in effects on muscle growth or increased performance.
11-17-2008, 01:45 PM
How about some feedback from people who have used arginine instead of just refering to studies...
11-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Studies are controlled and there for more accurate. Feed back is great more for taste but not as far as showing before and after increase in the body endless they did some blood work etc or some form of testing. If arginine is so great why does no2 and no2 black suck so bad from MRI. Both use AAKG.
11-17-2008, 02:36 PM
I would do 3-5g preworkout and another dose before bed
11-17-2008, 02:45 PM
I just started to use pre surge and they don't even use aakg but license out the GPLC. Same for creatine rather than try to make some fancy creatine they said creapure works why not just get a license and use it. If its not broken don't fix it.
11-17-2008, 06:49 PM
well theres NO studies supporting it.... funny thing is they dont say theres NO studies (or ARE studies rather) that disprove this hypothesis either.
Until I see that and not subjective write ups by someone with an alternative motive I wont believe it.
Doesnt mean this new amino isnt more then interesting to me though and Id like to try it to compare.
11-17-2008, 06:52 PM
11-17-2008, 06:55 PM
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