[small_guy]

Has anyone seen decent results from BCAAs and Leucine supplementation? At t-nation they say that a few grams of Leucine alone to a meal, high protein or not-so-high protein, increases muscle protein synthesis by 50-70 percent in humans and increases protein turnover by over 500 percent.

I thought that it was better to have BCAAs instead of just straight Leucine? Anyone had good results?

[lookatmybicep]

i read that a bit ago im guna try it if i have gd results il let ya know

[ari4216]

Originally Posted by small_guy

Has anyone seen decent results from BCAAs and Leucine supplementation? At t-nation they say that a few grams of Leucine alone to a meal, high protein or not-so-high protein, increases muscle protein synthesis by 50-70 percent in humans and increases protein turnover by over 500 percent.

I thought that it was better to have BCAAs instead of just straight Leucine? Anyone had good results?

those percentages are pretty overblown. BCAA's and leucine are both good, but id give the edge to bcaa's(and in particular xtend)

Either way adding them to a meal isnt the ideal way. Taking them pre, during, and post workouts are the best options.

or another option is to take high doses during the day separate from meals to prevent catabolism and promote metabolism(to burn more fate)

[wontdie]

They are trying to push their product. So they have an obvious incentive to over exaggerate the effectiveness.

Originally Posted by small_guy

Has anyone seen decent results from BCAAs and Leucine supplementation? At t-nation they say that a few grams of Leucine alone to a meal, high protein or not-so-high protein, increases muscle protein synthesis by 50-70 percent in humans and increases protein turnover by over 500 percent.

I thought that it was better to have BCAAs instead of just straight Leucine? Anyone had good results?

[Fried Cheese]

I have been adding about 5 grams of leucine to my PWO shake and have had good results.

I found this:
Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects

The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 ± 19% and +77 ± 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 ± 0.006 vs. 0.061 ± 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 ± 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only.

[ari4216]

add leucine to a pwo shake definately makes sense over taking it with a regular meal

[djbombsquad]

Why not sip on 40-60 grams of leucine threw out the whole day?

[ari4216]

yeah but in between meals not with them would be emore effective and if you can afford and handle to take 40-60 grams a day it would be beneficial, but i think at some point it becomes too much for the body to absorb.

[Steveoph]

Originally Posted by djbombsquad

Why not sip on 40-60 grams of leucine threw out the whole day?

The real benefit comes from the change in leucine plasma levels caused by taking larger amount of leucine at once, so continual sipping may actually me counter-productive. Preferably every 4-5 hours, which is why I recall Layne Norton (I Believe) being a proponent at a conference last spring of large meals every 5 hours w/ Leucine to maximally spike Leucine and muscle growth.

Originally Posted by ari4216

yeah but in between meals not with them would be emore effective and if you can afford and handle to take 40-60 grams a day it would be beneficial, but i think at some point it becomes too much for the body to absorb.

Leucine works best when taken in conjuction with other proteins so that it isn't rate limiting.

For a good quick read, check out T-Nation's "New Ultra-Pure L-Leucine", laugh at the price, and then pick up L-Leucine (1 kilo) By: NutraPlanet for under 1/2 the price.

[pinchharmonic]

Originally Posted by Fried Cheese

I have been adding about 5 grams of leucine to my PWO shake and have had good results.

I found this:
Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects

The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 ± 19% and +77 ± 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 ± 0.006 vs. 0.061 ± 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 ± 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only.

OK, i'm sold. Now I just need to know the amount of leucine added. I personall like to do around 40-50 grams of fast digesting whey isolate, and 20-30 grams of as fast carbs as I can find. either dex + malto or cream of rice, or waxy maize...

I'm assuming I can just add leucine to that, and don't need to change any of my other variables? but how much leucine?

[Fried Cheese]

You know, somewhere I read that 5 grams was enough, so that is what I use. But I can't find the info right now. Actually, the stuff is so fluffy, I've been doing about a tablespoon and a half. This is a weird substance, you can't mix it without a blender and it reminds me of shiny styrofoam, but much lighter.

[Dizmal]

How is everyone taking their Xtend/BCAA PWO? I've been drinking my whey shake w/wms followed about a half hour by Xtend/bulk bcaa.

Do you guys also wait a bit after your PWO shake or just down 1 after another?

[raginfcktard]

Originally Posted by Steveoph

The real benefit comes from the change in leucine plasma levels caused by taking larger amount of leucine at once, so continual sipping may actually me counter-productive. Preferably every 4-5 hours, which is why I recall Layne Norton (I Believe) being a proponent at a conference last spring of large meals every 5 hours w/ Leucine to maximally spike Leucine and muscle growth.




Leucine works best when taken in conjuction with other proteins so that it isn't rate limiting.

For a good quick read, check out T-Nation's "New Ultra-Pure L-Leucine", laugh at the price, and then pick up L-Leucine (1 kilo) By: NutraPlanet for under 1/2 the price.

but it's ultra pure...

he's right though...at least take your larger doses with breakfast and postworkout shakes imo. depending on your intake i dont see the need for more than 15g a day, excluding of course what you will get from protein powders.