Who else makes a 25-R Diol products like in MassFx

[Whacked]

It supposedly doesn't adversly affect natty test levels

""From the write-up:
"25-R Diol™ is a naturally occurring sapogenin (plant hormones) that acts as a precursor to something known as 6-keto diosgenin, only with a longer biological half-life. 25R-diol™ has direct anabolic effects on androgen receptors but does not cause shutdown of your own testosterone production. This occurs because 25R-diol™ has minimal androgenic activity at those receptors. Androgenicity general describes the side effects of hormones. Because of this, 25-R Diol™ results in increased muscle mass without the side effects""""

 

[LatSpread]

25-r is also in Nutrex's new test booster Anabol 5, and i think will be in the new I-force Max-Out

 

[nunes]

It supposedly doesn't adversly affect natty test levels

""From the write-up:
"25-R Diol™ is a naturally occurring sapogenin (plant hormones) that acts as a precursor to something known as 6-keto diosgenin, only with a longer biological half-life. 25R-diol™ has direct anabolic effects on androgen receptors but does not cause shutdown of your own testosterone production. This occurs because 25R-diol™ has minimal androgenic activity at those receptors. Androgenicity general describes the side effects of hormones. Because of this, 25-R Diol™ results in increased muscle mass without the side effects""""

alri bam, iforce max-out and I believe something from hi-tech supps, anavar

 

[madchemist]

Anabolic Xtreme's nomenclature is:

25R-3,6-Diol

I-Force's nomenclature is:

25R-4-ene-3,6-Dione

Nutrex's nomenclature makes no sense.


ALRI's nomenclature is:

25R-4-ene-3,6-Diol

Hi-Tech's nomenclature makes no sense.

 

[nunes]

Anabolic Xtreme's nomenclature is:

25R-3,6-Diol

I-Force's nomenclature is:

25R-4-ene-3,6-Dione

Nutrex's nomenclature makes no sense.


ALRI's nomenclature is:

25R-4-ene-3,6-Diol

Hi-Tech's nomenclature makes no sense.

they probably are all the same...

 

[Kristofer68SS]

they probably are all the same...

I was going to ask that question.

Are they all the same?

 

[madchemist]

I was going to ask that question.

Are they all the same?

Only a lab would be able to determine that. I think PA ran a test on Nutrex's Anabol-5 and only found diosgenin, so it is possible.

 

[amadorian]

Is is still up in there air if 25R even does anything? It hasn't been debated in a while. If it was that good why doesn't a company just make just a single 25R product?

 

[just93]

were is max-out....????? sorry to hijack

 

[LatSpread]

Only a lab would be able to determine that. I think PA ran a test on Nutrex's Anabol-5 and only found diosgenin, so it is possible.

damn, that makes me real sick of all sorts of companies being shady.

 

[thesinner]

The 25R-diol in MassFX is the following nomenclature:
(3a,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

It's very stereospecific. It's a single isomer and it is 5-alpha-reduced. The sapponigens mentioned in this thread so far are close... but no cigar. The 4-spirostenes, to my knowledge, have estrogenic metaboites, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you just need to be more cautious and they will be more wet.

 

[nunes]

The 25R-diol in MassFX is the following nomenclature:
(3a,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

It's very stereospecific. It's a single isomer and it is 5-alpha-reduced. The sapponigens mentioned in this thread so far are close... but no cigar. The 4-spirostenes, to my knowledge, have estrogenic metaboites, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you just need to be more cautious and they will be more wet.

what do you mean when you say its 5-alpha reduced?
Is it possible for any of these herbal sapponigens to interact with 5-alpha reductase, or only the one in the mass fx doesn't?

 

[thesinner]

what do you mean when you say its 5-alpha reduced?
Is it possible for any of these herbal sapponigens to interact with 5-alpha reductase, or only the one in the mass fx doesn't?

5-alpha-reduced simply means that there is a stereospecific, saturated bond between carbons 4 and 5. Any steroidal compound with a 4-ene is not 5-alpha reduced. A saturated bond between 4 and 5 can be either 5-alpha-reduced or 5-beta-reduced. 5-alpha is the more potent isomer.

 

[nunes]

5-alpha-reduced simply means that there is a stereospecific, saturated bond between carbons 4 and 5. Any steroidal compound with a 4-ene is not 5-alpha reduced. A saturated bond between 4 and 5 can be either 5-alpha-reduced or 5-beta-reduced. 5-alpha is the more potent isomer.

thanks bro

 

[madchemist]

The 4-spirostenes, to my knowledge, have estrogenic metaboites,

What leads you to this conclusion?

 

[thesinner]

What leads you to this conclusion?

I'm pretty sure Author L. Rhea, the designer of BAM came out and said the 4-spirostene in it's formulation was added to to its ability to aromatize on his website.

Really, with the exception of ring D, 4-spirostenediol is replicable to an androst-4-ene-3-ol based steroid. It doesn't surprise me if they react with the aromatase enzyme. I suppose you could argue a 6-hydroxyl group preventing or skewing the reactivity, but I don't think it would form a strong enough steric to prevent the reaction from going to completion.

 

[madchemist]

I'm pretty sure Author L. Rhea, the designer of BAM came out and said the 4-spirostene in it's formulation was added to to its ability to aromatize on his website.

Really, with the exception of ring D, 4-spirostenediol is replicable to an androst-4-ene-3-ol based steroid. It doesn't surprise me if they react with the aromatase enzyme. I suppose you could argue a 6-hydroxyl group preventing or skewing the reactivity, but I don't think it would form a strong enough steric to prevent the reaction from going to completion.

Interesting theory, however even if the 4-ene isomer is more likely to interact with aromatase, it would most likely not be able to function as an ER ligand. In fact, with the exception of a mutant protein binding domain, the cyclic substituent off the 16/17th carbon will make aromatase binding impossible. But that is neither here nor there...

 

[just93]

i want to revive this thread it is very interesting, i want to know more about 25r-diol!!

 

[VolcomX311]

Yes, very informational thread :clap2:

 

[ralph4u2c]

What leads you to this conclusion?

love the ambition and drive .... always thinking outside the box too. kudos neuro-bol

 

[ari4216]

so what are the benefits of 25-r diol in simpler terms?

 

[liquid]

so what are the benefits of 25-r diol in simpler terms?

"25R-Diol is natural derivative of a class of compounds called sapogenins. It has potent anabolic properties and no (pro-hormone type) harsh side effects. 25R-diol will bind to androgen receptors, but has very little androgenic activity. This makes it a potent anabolic with none of the androgenic side effects."

 

[jsp0785]

this thread about halfway down got waaaaaay too smart for me

 

[just93]

yah, i didnt understand anything thats why i revived it.........but know i know what it does!!

 

[pistonpump]

Interesting theory, however even if the 4-ene isomer is more likely to interact with aromatase, it would most likely not be able to function as an ER ligand. In fact, with the exception of a mutant protein binding domain, the cyclic substituent off the 16/17th carbon will make aromatase binding impossible. But that is neither here nor there...

sounds almost like you are making that all up and just throwing words around to sound smart... haha i know thats not the case but the thought came to mind. "when the 72 ring of the affirmative console becomes incased in the time domain nebula a quantum planakonic reaction ensues" haha

 

[Hyde12]

The 25R-diol in MassFX is the following nomenclature:
(3a,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

It's very stereospecific. It's a single isomer and it is 5-alpha-reduced. The sapponigens mentioned in this thread so far are close... but no cigar. The 4-spirostenes, to my knowledge, have estrogenic metaboites, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you just need to be more cautious and they will be more wet.

Since it is 5-alpha-reduced, then it would lower DHT, right?

 

[Hyde12]

sounds almost like you are making that all up and just throwing words around to sound smart... haha i know thats not the case but the thought came to mind. "when the 72 ring of the affirmative console becomes incased in the time domain nebula a quantum planakonic reaction ensues" haha

:toofunny:

 

[T-AD]

sounds almost like you are making that all up and just throwing words around to sound smart... haha i know thats not the case but the thought came to mind. "when the 72 ring of the affirmative console becomes incased in the time domain nebula a quantum planakonic reaction ensues" haha

Actually, that's not the case. Since the 17-alphaketo does not directly bind to androgen receptors as in the case of the beta isomers used, the kertergenic reaction would not take place, which would then result in there being no planakonic reaction at all! What would actually occur is the isonatic test values would increase dramatically, leading to a post-propagandic reaction in the systemic quantum tribungulus. And that's just not something that we want to happen at all. :rofl:

Tim KnoW Big WerdS Twoo. :trout: :run:

 

[crazyfool405]

Since it is 5-alpha-reduced, then it would lower DHT, right?

there will be no aromatizing of the compound. into estro or DHT

 

[Hyde12]

there will be no aromatizing of the compound. into estro or DHT

I know this, but sometimes if a product is 5-alpha reduced, it will lower DHT and cause libido issues, even though I haven't heard of this with MassFx (the opposite actually).

 

[thesinner]

there will be no aromatizing of the compound. into estro or DHT

DHT is not aromatic

 

[thesinner]

I know this, but sometimes if a product is 5-alpha reduced, it will lower DHT and cause libido issues, even though I haven't heard of this with MassFx (the opposite actually).

It's sort of a give and take thing with MassFX.

For the average user, DHT will increase, but the occasional person it will decrease, and they experience a libido loss.

I had forgotten about this thread. I'll try to check with Dr.D later this weekend and get some more facts on this compound.

 

[Hyde12]

It's sort of a give and take thing with MassFX.

For the average user, DHT will increase, but the occasional person it will decrease, and they experience a libido loss.

I had forgotten about this thread. I'll try to check with Dr.D later this weekend and get some more facts on this compound.

Awesome, thanks.

 

[crazyfool405]

DHT is not aromatic

isnt that what i basically said?

 

[thesinner]

isnt that what i basically said?

you said there will be no aromatizing into estro or dht

while that is true with this compound, it is never not true with any compound. how can something aromatize into a non-aromatic compound?

 

[thesinner]

Awesome, thanks.

What I've got is that it very well could convert into an androgen; however, data with regards to conversion rates is not very well established, nor would it be super high. Aside from forming actual androgens, it also can form furostanol sapponins as well, which can help elevate free test levels.

 

[crazyfool405]

you said there will be no aromatizing into estro or dht

while that is true with this compound, it is never not true with any compound. how can something aromatize into a non-aromatic compound?

so your saying anything that is 5a reduced is not an aromatic compound?

i know you cant comment on SD , or PP but they are both 5a reduced, same with Epithios, and they do not convert to estro or dht. they are dry compounds (with the exception of PP bc its more androgenic but staing by the nomeclature it is clearly supposed to not aromatize) what am i missing?

 

[thesinner]

so your saying anything that is 5a reduced is not an aromatic compound?

i know you cant comment on SD , or PP but they are both 5a reduced, same with Epithios, and they do not convert to estro or dht. they are dry compounds (with the exception of PP bc its more androgenic but staing by the nomeclature it is clearly supposed to not aromatize) what am i missing?

aromatic compounds have perpetuating unsaturated bonds. 5-alpha-reduced compounds contain only saturated bonds.

Superdrol can't convert to DHT because it is dimethyl-DHT. Pheraplex is an alkylated metabolite of DHT. It can't convert to DHT because it no longer holds an oxygen at the 3 position. It can, however, convert to methylstanol.

Let's also keep in mind that water bloating is caused by aldosterone, which isn't a metabolite of estrogens or androgens. I don't see why you think why something being androgenic would cause bloating. If that were the case, no one would use masteron or tren while cutting.

 

[crazyfool405]

aromatic compounds have perpetuating unsaturated bonds. 5-alpha-reduced compounds contain only saturated bonds.

Superdrol can't convert to DHT because it is dimethyl-DHT. Pheraplex is an alkylated metabolite of DHT. It can't convert to DHT because it no longer holds an oxygen at the 3 position. It can, however, convert to methylstanol.

Let's also keep in mind that water bloating is caused by aldosterone, which isn't a metabolite of estrogens or androgens. I don't see why you think why something being androgenic would cause bloating. If that were the case, no one would use masteron or tren while cutting.

gotcha, i figures you ment that DHT has unsaturated bonds.

the reason why i associate and most people associate androgens and water retention is because it happens with androgens like test, and others that have the ability to aromatize. not necessarily a specific androgens per say but androgenic sides, that occur when running them which doesnt always correlate to water retention and high estrogen.

 

[thesinner]

you should try taking steroidal anti-inflammatories if you wanna see bloating

I wonder if that's what Matthew Perry was taking during those episodes of Friends.

 

[BBR]

I did a short cycle of MassFX with Hyperdrol X2 and made minimal gains, but also had no sides. Was it worth it? Nope.

 

[crazyfool405]

you should try taking steroidal anti-inflammatories if you wanna see bloating

I wonder if that's what Matthew Perry was taking during those episodes of Friends.

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

 

[just93]

you got some more info bro??

 

[small_guy]

you should try taking steroidal anti-inflammatories if you wanna see bloating

I wonder if that's what Matthew Perry was taking during those episodes of Friends.

That is the excuse I use when I overeat and get fat.

thanks for the laugh!

 

[T-AD]

I did a short cycle of MassFX with Hyperdrol X2 and made minimal gains, but also had no sides. Was it worth it? Nope.

Strong first post... Care to elaborate on that?

1. What is your age/weight/lifting experience?
2. How were you dosing?
3. WHEN were you dosing?
4. How many were you dosing?
5. How long did you take them?
6. What did you notice?

We're always here to help. :cheers:

 

[crazyfool405]

Strong first post... Care to elaborate on that?

1. What is your age/weight/lifting experience?
2. How were you dosing?
3. WHEN were you dosing?
4. How many were you dosing?
5. How long did you take them?
6. What did you notice?

We're always here to help. :cheers:

arent these products better when used for 6-8 weeks so you can reap the maximum benifits from it, a short cycle seems well short 4 weeks probably. and minimal gains (not a bad thing when your LOSING FAT AS WELL) which is something this product delivers.

and to add to your questions Tim, when whas the last time he used anything hormonal? and how much time did he take inbeteween something hormonal and this stack?

 

[alwaysgaining]

wow guys lets get back on track

 

[BBR]

TimDull2, in answer to your questions:

Strong first post... Care to elaborate on that?

1. What is your age/weight/lifting experience?
24 at the time, I weighed about 78kg from memory and I'd been lifting for about 18 months - 2 years.

2. How were you dosing? I followed the 'Mass Cycle' that was featured on the Anabolic Xtreme website. The one that included Mass FX, Hyperdrol X2 and Retain 2(forget product name, it was AX and had a purple label from memory).

3. WHEN were you dosing? Do you mean what time of day? Again, I was dosing as per the instructions on the cycle listed on the website.

4. How many were you dosing? See above.

5. How long did you take them? In total I believe my cycle lasted six to eight weeks.

6. What did you notice? Ok, what did I notice. I noticed an increased in strength and aggression. I did put on 7kg over the course of the cycle and undoubtedly some was muscle. I feel, however, the most of it was fat. Once I went off-cycle I lost all but 1kg, so I am assuming that was muscle that I kept.

Does the product work? Well it adds mass as it advertises. Would I take it again? No. I do not personally feel it is worth the considerable money it costs here in Australia.

What could I have done to make it work more effectively? This was my first cycle so of course I would do things differently next time. I'd probably cut the calories down, 3500 a day was far too much for me. I'd also do slightly more cardio in an effort to keep body fat gain to a minimum. Furthermore, I feel I train far more effectively now than I did 6-8 months ago when the cycle finished. Body building is one sport where you cannot afford to think you know everything. I will constantly improve and perfect my training.

When it comes down to, the product does work as described. I do feel, however, the claims in regards to mass gain are exaggerated. Could this just be my own fault for not training as effectively as I could? Of course! That being said, I do not feel my training was that poor that I can take all the blame for it so to speak.

In essence, it is not for me to state categorically whether the product does or does not have the propensity to add significant muscle mass as described. All I can do is say that I personally felt my muscle gains were minimal, and that the claims made by the product/company are overstated. That, however, is not misleading advertising. It does add mass, just not as much as I thought it would.

I hope this has answered any questions. I have not written the product off so to speak. I personally would probably try another product over this one if I planned on doing a cycle in the future.

Cheers, Blake.

 

[thesinner]

you gained approximately 15lbs in the course of 4 weeks

if you are convinced that all but 2.2lbs was fat gains, I would strongly recommend revisiting your diet and eating habits.

 

[thesinner]

Strong first post... Care to elaborate on that?

Sometimes marketting people from competator companies have been known join forums under a random username and post slanderous things about another company.

When your first post on a forum is to badmouth a company or product, that says something you. You know what I mean? When you make a "strong first post", as they're often referred to as, it appears that you went out of your way to join a forum just to badmouth a company, person, or product, as opposed to seeking advice, information, or contributing to the board.