[GaryGGiraffe]

Hey all, I was toying with doing a cycle of Havoc for a while (haven't ever done one) but decided against it for fear of screwing up my maximum testosterone potential (not to mention possible hair loss or gyno).

So my question is this: being only 21, would I be doing my body any harm by using natural testosterone boosters/freers such as Divanil, Fadogia, or T-Rez? I've been cutting forever (like over a year - used to be a fat 200+ lbs) and decided it's getting too difficult to get definition with so little mass. So I want to bulk up fast and then cut again.

If natural test boosters are ok for me to use, what stack would you recommend?

[smeton_yea]

Originally Posted by GaryGGiraffe

Hey all, I was toying with doing a cycle of Havoc for a while (haven't ever done one) but decided against it for fear of screwing up my maximum testosterone potential (not to mention possible hair loss or gyno).

So my question is this: being only 21, would I be doing my body any harm by using natural testosterone boosters/freers such as Divanil, Fadogia, or T-Rez? I've been cutting forever (like over a year - used to be a fat 200+ lbs) and decided it's getting too difficult to get definition with so little mass. So I want to bulk up fast and then cut again.

If natural test boosters are ok for me to use, what stack would you recommend?

Honestly, I would just not use anything at your age unless you suspect test levels are low. your natural testosterone levels are in there raging prime right now and this is the time to build muscle so use it wisely. many man wish they had your testosterone levels of a normal healthy 21 year old man.

I'm 27 myself and really don't notice much, than 21. Maybe some subtle changes that have occurred; although Ive kept sleeping, nutrition and weight training up. With that said I did get benefit from biotest tribex back when I was 23. and blue up last year when I was 26. Btw I think the normal male testosterone starts declining very slowly around 30. Than around 50 more changes are noticed and downhill from there. I think its hereditary and lifestyle. my dad's test didn't really go slightly down in till he was 37 from what I noticed. he is 54 now and I have seen the decline over the years. used to be way more aggressive. Hopefully i take after his testosterone genetics or hopefully I have better. anyways that just my theory on testostrone delcine..dont mean to tie up the thread.

You might and just might get some boost out of these at 21.
Blue up by Controlled Labs
Biotest Tribex(the blue pills)
Activate Xtreme by DS
Nutraplanets Divinal(although I don't know if it compares to Activate Xtreme,its the same thing, I hope it does)
6-oxo

[RenegadeRows]

Smeton has good advice. I would hold off unless you think that cutting is interfereing with your test levels (low energy, libido, etc)

[Heat Miser]

Lets revisit this for a moment.

Suppose he is at his "normal range" for his age. These natural test boosters are theorized to "boost" your "natural" test production. I believe the better ones are also targeted to elevate free testosterone. They are also theorized to be non suppresive.

The issue is do they boost your test to supraphysiological levels and is this a good thing or bad thing regardless of your age.

Hear me out.

So at what age do you boost your natural test levels to supraphysiological levels. If I am 21 and I am in my "normal" range or 45 and in my "normal" range any elevation above my "normal" range is supraphysiological for my "normal" range.

The issue I believe that is relative and pertinent is supression not supraphysiological ranges for any age. If I am 21 and elevate my testosterone to supraphysiological ranges with exogenous testosterone I risk inhibition and the result could be a decrease to my healthy normal range for my age. This also applies to a 45 year old. But if I use something that is not supressive what difference does it make if I elevate my levels above range at 21 or at 45 I will not hinder my natural production.

Think about it for a minute. These are natural test boosters. Why would these not be marketed and sold to the those with already normal ranges testosterone ragrdless of age or range. They are not marketed to those with low test levels. They are marketed to everyone.

[sp447]

You can use them as you are of age, but unless you really need that extra kick, I'd wait

[Steveoph]

B said it very well. I would suggest something like Divanil to maximize your naturally high T levels. I'm in the same position as you (actually younger, 2 months shy of 20). I will be logging TNT very shortly, which includes Divanil. I have used DTH many times in the past and noticed increased in aggression, acne (so Test boosting) but I think something that frees my bound testosterone is optimal.

The resveratrol touts an amazing number of health benefits, and it is also a mild AI, the strength which I feel is low but it should be a staple for it's benefits anyways.

[LatSpread]

Originally Posted by Steveoph

B said it very well. I would suggest something like Divanil to maximize your naturally high T levels. I'm in the same position as you (actually younger, 2 months shy of 20). I will be logging TNT very shortly, which includes Divanil. I have used DTH many times in the past and noticed increased in aggression, acne (so Test boosting) but I think something that frees my bound testosterone is optimal.

The resveratrol touts an amazing number of health benefits, and it is also a mild AI, the strength which I feel is low but it should be a staple for it's benefits anyways.

x2, I'm 21 and benefited from DTH. Also, from nettle based supps such as divanex (although I always used Activate, which is more or less the same thing)

[GaryGGiraffe]

Thanks for the input guys. Stuff all of you said makes alot of sense, but B5150 and Steveoph have great points. If people of all ages get exactly the same benefits from using them, why would it be harmful for me to use, but not for older dudes?

The TNT stack is exactly what I was thinking I'd try. It's ingredients have been getting rave reviews. Are there any other supplements you would recommend in addition or as substitutes?

[LatSpread]

Originally Posted by GaryGGiraffe

Thanks for the input guys. Stuff all of you said makes alot of sense, but B5150 and Steveoph have great points. If people of all ages get exactly the same benefits from using them, why would it be harmful for me to use, but not for older dudes?

The TNT stack is exactly what I was thinking I'd try. It's ingredients have been getting rave reviews. Are there any other supplements you would recommend in addition or as substitutes?

nothing in addition, but perhaps at a later point in time look into Activate Xtreme, or Diesel Test Hardcore.

[GaryGGiraffe]

Originally Posted by LatSpread

nothing in addition, but perhaps at a later point in time look into Activate Xtreme, or Diesel Test Hardcore.

I just noticed that the TNT stack is out of stock. What would be a similar stack that you would recommend?

[Steveoph]

Originally Posted by GaryGGiraffe

Thanks for the input guys. Stuff all of you said makes alot of sense, but B5150 and Steveoph have great points. If people of all ages get exactly the same benefits from using them, why would it be harmful for me to use, but not for older dudes?

The TNT stack is exactly what I was thinking I'd try. It's ingredients have been getting rave reviews. Are there any other supplements you would recommend in addition or as substitutes?

TNT is probably enough. Fenugreek/Testofen is anothing interesting T booster, but not needed. I'd say run TNT on its own and evaluate the results.

Also you might be interested in Icariin.

[LatSpread]

Originally Posted by GaryGGiraffe

I just noticed that the TNT stack is out of stock. What would be a similar stack that you would recommend?

with tnt out of stock simply go with activate xtreme, i seriously dont think you will need anything else, act x is potent and very worthwhile.

[GaryGGiraffe]

Originally Posted by LatSpread

with tnt out of stock simply go with activate xtreme, i seriously dont think you will need anything else, act x is potent and very worthwhile.

Alright thanks a bunch man. I think I will definitely try the AX.

[Rodja]

I didn't notice much from them when I was 21, but it all depends on how "in tune" you are with your body. Outside of 1Test and ecdy, I seldom "felt" any difference from most supplements then, but I am much more cognizant of smaller changes.