NOW Indole-3-Carbinol

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    NOW Indole-3-Carbinol


    This may be a stupid question but I always thought that Flax Lignans were good to have- I eat 2-3 tablespoons of flax a day in my shakes and cottage cheese meals.

    Should I be dropping my flax completely and what is the whole problem with these lignans.

    Thanks...

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    What do you mean what is the problem? I'm sorry, but your question does not make sense to me. You mention NOW's I3C in the title and go on to talk about flax lignans and then conclude that taking extra flax is bad? I know there are flax lignans in NOW's I3C but where did you get the idea that you shouldn't be consuming flax? Please, elaborate a little bit more and maybe I can help you.
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    for what its worth i include NOW i3c and mega potency resveratrol as a PART of my pct.
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    Sorry, I was reading about how dinoiii does not like I the NOW brand version of I3C due to its inclusion of flax which is proestrogenic.

    I was under the impression that flax in your diet is a good idea.
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    I don't consider flax essential. If you have it, then use ground flax instead of whole seeds, as the nutrients will be better absorbed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by small_guy View Post
    Sorry, I was reading about how dinolli does not like I the NOW brand version of I3C due to its inclusion of flax which is proestrogenic.

    I was under the impression that flax in your diet is a good idea.
    Any links to someone with solid proof of pro-estrogenic characteristics in lignans?
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    Then who's I3C should we be using, if the lignan thing is true?
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.
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    1)
    J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Apr;94(5):461-7. Epub 2005 Mar 16.

    Mammalian lignans and genistein decrease the activities of aromatase and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in MCF-7 cells. Brooks JD, Thompson LU.

    Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, 150 College St., Toronto, Ont., Canada M5S 3E2.

    Estrogen plays a major role in breast cancer development and progression. Breast tissue and cell lines contain the necessary enzymes for estrogen synthesis, including aromatase and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17beta-HSD). These enzymes can influence tissue exposure to estrogen and therefore have become targets for breast cancer treatment and prevention. This study determined whether the isoflavone genistein (GEN) and the mammalian lignans enterolactone (EL) and enterodiol (ED) would inhibit the activity of aromatase and 17beta-HSD type 1 in MCF-7 cancer cells, thereby decreasing the amount of estradiol (E2) produced and consequently cell proliferation. Results showed that 10 microM EL, ED and GEN significantly decreased the amount of estrone (E1) produced via the aromatase pathway by 37%, 81% and 70%, respectively. Regarding 17beta-HSD type 1, 50 microM EL and GEN maximally inhibited E2 production by 84% and 59%, respectively. The reduction in E1 and E2 production by EL and the reduction in E2 production by GEN were significantly related to a reduction in MCF-7 cell proliferation. 4-Hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione (50 microM) did not inhibit aromatase but inhibited the conversion of E1 to E2 by 78%, suggesting that it is a 17beta-HSD type 1 inhibitor. In conclusion, modulation of local E2 synthesis is one potential mechanism through which ED, EL and GEN may protect against breast cancer.

    PMID: 15876411 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Mammalian lignans and genistein decrease the activ...[J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005] - PubMed Result

    ScienceDirect - The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology : Mammalian lignans and genistein decrease the activities of aromatase and 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in MCF-7 cells



    2)
    "Flaxseed's lignans

    There is substantial evidence that flaxseed and its lignans (components in the fiber) inhibit estradiol carcinogenic effects.

    Researchers at the Division of Oncology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, Linkoping, Sweden, found that certain phytoestrogens in flaxseeds (enterodiol and enterolactone) counteracted the effects of estradiol (E2) and thereby inhibited the growth and angiogenesis (growth of blood vessels) in solid tumors in mice. Both flaxseed phytoestrogens (lignan derived) decreases the secretion of VEGF – vascular endothelial growth factor – in human breast cancer cells.

    The researchers concluded that flaxseed and its lignans have potent anti-estrogenic effects on estrogen receptors positive breast cancer and may prove to be beneficial in breast cancer prevention in the future.

    One of the main sources of phytoestrogens in the western diet is lignans. Plant lignans such as in flaxseeds or sesame seeds appear in their naturally occurring state in a form of a compound called SDG (secoisolariciresinol diglucoside). SDG is metabolized by gut bacteria (microflora) to the more bioactive mammalian lignans enterodiol and enterolactone."




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    3)
    J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1994 Aug;50(3-4):205-12.
    Lignans and flavonoids inhibit aromatase enzyme in human preadipocytes. Wang C, Mäkelä T, Hase T, Adlercreutz H, Kurzer MS.

    Department of Food Science and Nutrition, University of Minnesota, St Paul 55108.

    Lignans and flavonoids are naturally-occurring diphenolic compounds found in high concentrations in whole grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables. Seven lignans and six flavonoids were evaluated for their abilities to inhibit aromatase enzyme activity in a human preadipose cell culture system. The lignan, enterolactone (Enl) and its theoretical precursors, 3'-demethoxy-3O-demethylmatairesinol (DMDM) and didemethoxymatairesinol (DDMM) decreased aromatase enzyme activity, with Ki values of 14.4, 5.0 and 7.3 microM, respectively. The flavonoids, coumestrol, luteolin and kaempferol also decreased aromatase enzyme activity, with Ki values of 1.3, 4.8 and 27.2 microM, respectively. Aminoglutethimide, a pharmaceutical aromatase inhibitor, showed a Ki value of 0.5 microM. Kinetic studies showed the inhibition by all compounds to be competitive. Smaller decreases in aromatase activity were observed with the lignan, enterodiol (End) and its theoretical precursors, O-demethylsecoisolariciresinol (ODSI), demethoxysecoisolariciresinol (DMSI) and didemethylsecoisolariciresinol (DDSI). The flavonoids, O-demethylangolensin (O-Dma), fisetin and morin showed no inhibitory effects. The inhibition of human preadipocyte aromatase activity by lignans and flavonoids suggests a mechanism by which consumption of lignan- and flavonoid-rich plant foods may contribute to reduction of estrogen-dependent disease, such as breast cancer.

    PMID: 8049151 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

    Lignans and flavonoids inhibit aromatase enzyme in...[J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1994] - PubMed Result


    4)
    J Endocrinol. 1995 Nov;147(2):295-302.

    Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase in genital skin fibroblasts and prostate tissue by dietary lignans and isoflavonoids.
    Evans BA, Griffiths K, Morton MS.

    Department of Child Health, University of Wales College of Medicine, Health Park, Cardiff, UK.

    Isoflavonoids and lignans, constituents of many plant foods, have been proposed as protective agents in those populations with a low incidence of hormone-dependent cancers. They may act by their inhibition of the metabolism of growth-promoting steroid hormones. This report describes the inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase by six isoflavonoids and two lignans in human genital skin fibroblast monolayers and homogenates, and in benign prostatic hyperplasia tissue homogenates. In genital skin fibroblasts, genistein, biochanin A and equol were the most potent inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase activity, each resulting in greater than 80% inhibition at a concentration of 100 microM. The IC50 values for genistein and a seven-compound mixture were approximately 35 microM and 20 microM (2.9 microM of each compound) respectively. Of the lignans, enterolactone was the most potent inhibitor. Inhibition by biochanin A was shown to be reversible. When genital skin fibroblast homogenates were used, biochanin A was found to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase isozymes 1 and 2 to differing extents (30% and 75% respectively). Genistein was shown to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase 2 in a non-competitive nature (Vmax and Km values without and with inhibitor were 30 and 20 pmol/mg protein per h and 177 and 170 nM respectively). All of the compounds tested inhibited 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity in genital skin fibroblast monolayers. When prostate tissue homogenates were used, the compounds tested were better inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase 1 than 2.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

    PMID: 7490559 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase in genital skin fi...[J Endocrinol. 1995] - PubMed Result


    5)
    Clinical Cancer Research 13, 1061-1067, February 1, 2007. doi: 10.1158/1078-0432.CCR-06-1651
    © 2007 American Association for Cancer Research
    Cancer Therapy: Preclinical

    Flaxseed and Its Lignans Inhibit Estradiol-Induced Growth, Angiogenesis, and Secretion of Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor in Human Breast Cancer Xenografts In vivo
    Malin Bergman Jungeström1, Lilian U. Thompson2 and Charlotta Dabrosin1

    Authors' Affiliations: 1 Divison of Oncology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, Linköping, Sweden and 2 Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

    Requests for reprints: Charlotta Dabrosin, Division of Oncology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, S-581 85 Linköping, Sweden. Phone: 46-13-22-85-95; Fax: 46-13-22-44-60; E-mail: chada{at}ibk.liu.se.

    Purpose: Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) is a potent stimulator of angiogenesis, which is crucial in cancer progression. We have previously shown that estradiol (E2) increases VEGF in breast cancer. Phytoestrogens are potential compounds in breast cancer prevention and treatment by poorly understood mechanisms. The main phytoestrogens in Western diet are lignans, and flaxseed is a rich source of the mammalian lignans enterodiol and enterolactone.

    Experimental Design: In the present study, ovariectomized mice were treated with continuous release of E2. MCF-7 tumors were established and mice were fed with basal diet or 10% flaxseed, and two groups that were fed basal diet received daily injections with enterodiol or enterolactone (15 mg/kg body weight).

    Results: We show that flaxseed, enterodiol, and enterolactone counteracted E2-induced growth and angiogenesis in solid tumors. Extracellular VEGF in vivo, sampled using microdialysis, in all intervention groups was significantly decreased compared with tumors in the basal diet group. Our in vivo findings were confirmed in vitro. By adding enterodiol or enterolactone, E2-induced VEGF secretion in MCF-7 cells decreased significantly without agonistic effects. The increased VEGF secretion by E2 in MCF-7 cells increased the expression of VEGF receptor-2 in umbilical vein endothelial cells, suggesting a proangiogenic effect by E2 by two different mechanisms, both of which were inhibited by the addition of lignans.

    Conclusions: Our results suggest that flaxseed and its lignans have potent antiestrogenic effects on estrogen receptor–positive breast cancer and may prove to be beneficial in breast cancer prevention strategies in the future.

    Flaxseed and Its Lignans Inhibit Estradiol-Induced Growth, Angiogenesis, and Secretion of Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor in Human Breast Cancer Xenografts In vivo -- Bergman Jungeström et al. 13 (3): 1061 -- Clinical Cancer Research
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    I was going to wait and see if they could scrounge up any material to back up the pro-estrogenic claims, but....well put Strategic
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    I do not have any links with proof as I just started to read up on the subject but Dr. Dana Houser(dinoiii) stated he did not like the NOW brand I3C in a post in a different site because of flax and it being proestrogenic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by small_guy View Post
    I do not have any links with proof as I just started to read up on the subject but Dr. Dana Houser(dinoiii) stated he did not like the NOW brand I3C in a post in a different site because of flax and it being proestrogenic.
    leanmuscle??

    I have read his stuff over there and do not remember any of that. I am the one that actually posted it. Care to extract (copy/paste) any of the information for us?
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    So the problem is with the flax itself and not the compound I3C correct??
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    It is in his newsletter I believe but this is part of a discussion from DA by him...

    About 40mg of estradiol (E2) is produced daily in an adult male. 3/4 os this is derived from peripheral aromatization of T by aromatase. That said, mid-morning would be the time of day E2 is highest.

    Keeping in mind that I3C is allowing the correct channeling of the estrone (E1) metabolites. E2 --> E1 (I3C modulates 2-hydroxyestrone and 16-hydroxyestrone ratios to a more favorable expression - please see my article on this in the next issue of Designer Supplements' Intelligent Design Magazine).

    To make this long story short (mid-morning is likely the "best" time if one is to be had).

    btw: I do NOT necessarily like the NOW brand version of I3C due to its inclusion of flax which is proestrogenic. This likely detracts from the I3C's effects and it is one reason I did NOT include this product on my approved list; moreso because of what it is and not necessarily because it didn't test out 3rd party. I lost interest when I looked at its label and never looked into 3rd party testing on this product.



    D_
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    Where does flaxseed oil fit into all this?
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    The entire estrogen, flaxseed debate is stupid and useless. Flax can actually inhibit estrogen and help say treatments like tamoxifen. But there are other studies that show hormonal, lipid changes, etc ... but these studies are primarily with postmenopausal women, rats, etc.

    I3C effects are real and definitely a good part of PCT. The NOW Foods product is JUST FINE. Good dosage, and the inclusion of flax will not hurt the product ... if anything, help it.

    Charles Poliquin wrote this once ...

    "No, not flax seed oil. But flax seed hulls are good for detoxification of xenoestrogens.

    I've never been a fan of flax seed oil because if you're obese anyway, you don't have the enzymes to elongate the molecule to turn it into the omega-3s. So what's the point of using it?

    Another problem is that flax seed oil is usually rancid in most stores, with 40 out of 42 store-bought brands shown to be rancid in one study. And even if you can get it fresh, it goes bad very rapidly once you open it, sometimes in less than two weeks. Plus, I just found that flax oil never really worked.

    But flax seeds can be used for the anti-estrogen effects and for adding fiber to your diet. You can buy them whole or pre-milled, but I'd rather grind them myself."
    Who f'n knows if this is correct, and I'm too lazy to search out the truth regarding this. I prefer the seeds itself ... cheaper and more versatile.
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    Theres a good product called LINUMLIFE which might be an option
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Theres a good product called LINUMLIFE which might be an option
    FLAX LIGNANS, LinumLife™ is a flax hull concentrate that contains 10 times more lignans than flaxseed or any other flax product. Serving of 1 gram contains 50mg lignans, the normal amount recommended per day. Lignans are phytoestrogens that promote improved levels of stronger estrogens such as estridiol, and the ratio of testosterone to DHT. According to LinumLife.com, lignans are scientifically related to many beneficial effects on health such as: prostate health, hair loss, acne prevention, antioxidant protection, menopause, bone health, cholesterol & blood sugar support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    I don't consider flax essential. If you have it, then use ground flax instead of whole seeds, as the nutrients will be better absorbed.
    the seeds are better for regularity mate
  

  
 

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