getting ripped

[f16]

Hey, I just need some feedback..... what is the closest suppliment to steroids to get you ripped....i do understabd diet and training but something to help boost results.. thanks in advance

 

[OCCFan023]

That is a very unique inquiry you got there, but unfortunately is unrealistic, to an extent (imo a lot of these products provide great results, minus the sides and cost of steroids).

As far as getting ripped, if you have the knowledge of diet and training than can I assume you have researched it a bit to get a grasp of it? If you have all the information on quality supplements is right at your finger tips with the search function.

However to give you a jumping off point, some quality peer reviewed items to look into would be Bulk Green Tea, Anabolic Pump DCP, ReCreate, leviathan Reloaded. These are just some. Use the below links to get an idea of what they have to offer from NPs descriptions, and then use the search function and you will ind logs, peoples thoughts on the products, and peoples reviews.

ReCreate:
Recreate (90 caps) By: USPLabs

Anabolic Pump:
Anabolic Pump (90+ caps) By: USPLabs

Leviathan Reloaded:
Leviathan Reloaded (90 caps) By: Palo Alto Labs

DCP:
DCP (180 caps) By: RPN

Green Tea:
TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps) By: NutraPlanet

 

[pantherdude63]

Hey, I just need some feedback..... what is the closest suppliment to steroids to get you ripped....i do understabd diet and training but something to help boost results.. thanks in advance

Its never good when you ask "what is the closest supplement to steroids" that shows you need to do alot more research. :gotsearch

 

[luclyluciano]

I just got back from Vegas and went to Studio 54. They have dancers dancing on a podium. One dancer was a guy who was thin an ripped. There was a crowd of girls gathered around his podium going nuts. I found myself wondering if I needed to change some things in my training, routine, diet etc. I have more of a mass/bodybuilders physique. Good muscle size! Yet the guys that are ripped attract the best attention. I was asking myself...how do I get that look?
Suggestions!izza:

 

[panther77]

well first the girls coulda been actin like that because of his dancing skills lol so you might want to learn how... haha jk but imo cardio would be your best bet as far as gettin ripped, thats pry why the dancer looked like he did lol as far as sups tho ive heard nothing but good things bout anabolic pump, and recreate seems to be pretty good too like said before. but i personally would stay away from stuff like hydroxycut, atro-phex, etc. that are just packed full of stims and dont seem to be all that effective

 

[f16]

well first the girls coulda been actin like that because of his dancing skills lol so you might want to learn how... haha jk but imo cardio would be your best bet as far as gettin ripped, thats pry why the dancer looked like he did lol as far as sups tho ive heard nothing but good things bout anabolic pump, and recreate seems to be pretty good too like said before. but i personally would stay away from stuff like hydroxycut, atro-phex, etc. that are just packed full of stims and dont seem to be all that effective

thanks for the input..... i was thinking of recreate and ap, but i dont know if my diet is that steady for it to be effective......because of my job my eating times vary, and ap is 15 minutes befor you eat etc.
hey panther77 is that you in the pic? that is what i am shooting for right now i am 5'8" 174 descent muscle tone with some abs.. with a little lower belly which is soooo hard to get rid of....... but i am pushing for results like that.... any tips from what you did?

 

[panther77]

thats me baby! haha but ya, im bout to order some ap and gonna see how it works. for me tho ive found that the best method for droppin bf is being as strict as POSSIBLE with your diet, i know during school it fn kills me but you gotta try, and you def gotta stay after the cardio and keep your intensity up in the gym. stay after it and it will come lol no questions asked

 

[pantherdude63]

thats me baby! haha but ya, im bout to order some ap and gonna see how it works. for me tho ive found that the best method for droppin bf is being as strict as POSSIBLE with your diet, i know during school it fn kills me but you gotta try, and you def gotta stay after the cardio and keep your intensity up in the gym. stay after it and it will come lol no questions asked

Thats not him in that pic! I know the guy and hes 5'5" 235 with 32% bf.lol jk

 

[panther77]

Thats not him in that pic! I know the guy and hes 5'5" 235 with 32% bf.lol jk

haha i had to change my avatar once already today cuz this guy said it wasnt good enough.... what a **** haha :FUfinger:

 

[pantherdude63]

haha i had to change my avatar once already today cuz this guy said it wasnt good enough.... what a **** haha :FUfinger:

You have to listen to me...your rep is 10.lol Right back at ya:FUfinger:

 

[luclyluciano]

well first the girls coulda been actin like that because of his dancing skills lol so you might want to learn how... haha jk but imo cardio would be your best bet as far as gettin ripped, thats pry why the dancer looked like he did lol as far as sups tho ive heard nothing but good things bout anabolic pump, and recreate seems to be pretty good too like said before. but i personally would stay away from stuff like hydroxycut, atro-phex, etc. that are just packed full of stims and dont seem to be all that effective

It's my second time @ studio 54 observing the chicks going wild.... it"s definitely the 6-pack, cut pecs etc. I talked to them myself.

 

[pantherdude63]

That seems probable.lol

 

[panther77]

haha well a six pack never hurts your chances with the ladies... but ya... def gotta work on the rep... makin me look terrible lol

 

[pantherdude63]

Hey, I just need some feedback..... what is the closest suppliment to steroids to get you ripped....i do understabd diet and training but something to help boost results.. thanks in advance

You may tell us your diet, workout, goals, etc...it would be helpful :thumbsup:

 

[AM07]

Most of these fake ass supps aren't going to do ****. Just diet and train hard, and you'll see results. There's no magic pill to get you ripped.

 

[panther77]

exactly, the biggest thing these supps are gonna do is make you lose a lil water weight, meanin you'll sweat more, no fun. o and you'll be hot as hell all the time. skip that stuff and just get serious bout your diet and training. it'll come with time

 

[DreamWeaver]

Well I am and endo and have been able to get ripped with no supplementation whatsoever. The reason I now use supps is that I don't want to have to go through the extremes I had to in the past. Supps don't make it possible, it's already doable without them, and that's for anybody who wants to pay the price. Supps may make it easier, or give you a chance to live a more normal life. Bottom line is, if you can't do it without supps, you probably can't do it with supps either.

 

[panther77]

Well I am and endo and have been able to get ripped with no supplementation whatsoever. The reason I now use supps is that I don't want to have to go through the extremes I had to in the past. Supps don't make it possible, it's already doable without them, and that's for anybody who wants to pay the price. Supps may make it easier, or give you a chance to live a more normal life. Bottom line is, if you can't do it without supps, you probably can't do it with supps either.

exactly! if i look like this guy when im 50 i'll be wonderin why i ever even thought bout supps lol

 

[freezito]

Dreamweaver is a animal! keep up the good work bro

 

[p5sky]

Hey, I just need some feedback..... what is the closest suppliment to steroids to get you ripped....i do understabd diet and training but something to help boost results.. thanks in advance

masturbation

get to work!!! wait, you should already be ripped if that were the case!:FUfinger:

 

[Shatter]

I just got back from Vegas and went to Studio 54. They have dancers dancing on a podium. One dancer was a guy who was thin an ripped. There was a crowd of girls gathered around his podium going nuts. I found myself wondering if I needed to change some things in my training, routine, diet etc. I have more of a mass/bodybuilders physique. Good muscle size! Yet the guys that are ripped attract the best attention. I was asking myself...how do I get that look?
Suggestions!izza:

Not to be a partypooper but why not just develop an attractive personality? I can assure you, you don't have to be ripped or good looking to pick up like a rockstar.

 

[pizzathehut]

yea, what u gonna walk round the club with ur shirt off? and hope girls jump on u. attraction on the outside but the real stuff comes from inside.. corny huh.. but it true now if u got the abs the dance and the talk.. then u in fat city, wish it was me but i just got none of them.. i just like to eat

 

[luclyluciano]

Not to be a partypooper but why not just develop an attractive personality? I can assure you, you don't have to be ripped or good looking to pick up like a rockstar.[/QUOTE

Ever notice there are plenty of fat chicks with great personalities! I prefer chicks with hot bodies. I would argue....Being ripped is always the cat's ass!

 

[pizzathehut]

yea.. u got a point there. no arguing that fact. o rhell to make it easier. i just get big with alot of money and get any woman? work like that to?

 

[panther77]

Ever notice there are plenty of fat chicks with great personalities! I prefer chicks with hot bodies. I would argue....Being ripped is always the cat's ass![/QUOTE]
haha very true, all the fat girls sure are nice.... but d@mn, who wants to look at em and feel on em? not me!

 

[jakellpet]

masturbation

get to work!!! wait, you should already be ripped if that were the case!:FUfinger:

lol - need to alternate arms otherwise only one will be as big as Popeye's!:thumbsup:

 

[DreamWeaver]

Dreamweaver is a animal! keep up the good work bro

Thanks I really appreciate the comment. Everybody says that I am going die in the gym. It's a good way to go better than in some nursing home. I am not as crazy as some might think though, I do use my head too... sometimes now lol

About women, sure you can attract women with a good physiqe, and it's nice to have the ladies check you out, especially at my age.. it's a great feeling. If you think that a good body is going to land you more women you might be right but in my experience it is usually the wrong kind of woman. A really good woman will only go for what you are not what you look like. Yah money and looks will get you some woman but mostly just skanks.

 

[luclyluciano]

Thanks I really appreciate the comment. Everybody says that I am going die in the gym. It's a good way to go better than in some nursing home. I am not as crazy as some might think though, I do use my head too... sometimes now lol

About women, sure you can attract women with a good physiqe, and it's nice to have the ladies check you out, especially at my age.. it's a great feeling. If you think that a good body is going to land you more women you might be right but in my experience it is usually the wrong kind of woman. A really good woman will only go for what you are not what you look like. Yah money and looks will get you some woman but mostly just skanks.

Yes but when money and a great personality are already take n care of,,,,,,being ripped and a six pack won't hurt.

Lucky

 

[TexasLifter89]

there is no supplement like steroids. thats why its called "supplement. Its meant to simply aid growth. Check out Anabolic Pump, Neovar recomped, Drive, Igf-2, Glycergrow. PM me with a more detailed question with your goals and ill help you figure something out

 

[luclyluciano]

there is no supplement like steroids. thats why its called "supplement. Its meant to simply aid growth. Check out Anabolic Pump, Neovar recomped, Drive, Igf-2, Glycergrow. PM me with a more detailed question with your goals and ill help you figure something out

I have used AP and Drive...they both did very little for me. Drive acutally did nothing! I have come to the conclusion like many on this site that supplements are alot of hype.

I have dosed Epistane & Dermacrine....now those worked! Steroids definitely work. Epistaine for eg. is a steroid not a supplement. I don't think it's correct to use the word supplement and steroids in the same sentence as they are 2 different things. Supplements for the most part are mainly hype and a cash grab. My educated opinion of course!

The goals of those on this thread is "getting ripped" For me it's diet...low carbs and cycling them, cardio, and H-drol and 11-oxo next due to their leaning out qualities.

Lucky

 

[DreamWeaver]

I have used AP and Drive...they both did very little for me. Drive acutally did nothing! I have come to the conclusion like many on this site that supplements are alot of hype.

I have dosed Epistane & Dermacrine....now those worked! Steroids definitely work. Epistaine for eg. is a steroid not a supplement. I don't think it's correct to use the word supplement and steroids in the same sentence as they are 2 different things. Supplements for the most part are mainly hype and a cash grab. My educated opinion of course!

The goals of those on this thread is "getting ripped" For me it's diet...low carbs and cycling them, cardio, and H-drol and 11-oxo next due to their leaning out qualities.

Lucky

Whoa!! I know there are non-responders to certain supplements but some of the supps you are stepping on are almost as effective as some to the designer steroids. Sure they are not as quick to add mass and strenght but you can take them for a longer period of time and you don't need to PCT. I have had some small experience with designers and the worked but at my age, I think it's stupid to screw with your health, and besides I was natural for 15 years and I kicked ass then and will in the future.

I believe - only use supplements when you need to, when your just starting out you don't need anything but protein. Designer steroids are not necessary, I believe they will be obsolete as there are better and better herbal alternatives. If you know what your doing, presently you can have more success with herbals over the long haul. I am 242 lbs and reasonably lean at 50 and I got that way by working hard, now that I am older I continue to be very successful with the same herbal products that you are condeming.

Sorry I'll get off my soap box now, I just did not like the blanket statements made in this post.

 

[thebigt]

Whoa!! I know there are non-responders to certain supplements but some of the supps you are stepping on are almost as effective as some to the designer steroids. Sure they are not as quick to add mass and strenght but you can take them for a longer period of time and you don't need to PCT. I have had some small experience with designers and the worked but at my age, I think it's stupid to screw with your health, and besides I was natural for 15 years and I kicked ass then and will in the future.

I believe - only use supplements when you need to, when your just starting out you don't need anything but protein. Designer steroids are not necessary, I believe they will be obsolete as there are better and better herbal alternatives. If you know what your doing, presently you can have more success with herbals over the long haul. I am 242 lbs and reasonably lean at 50 and I got that way by working hard, now that I am older I continue to be very successful with the same herbal products that you are condeming.

Sorry I'll get off my soap box now, I just did not like the blanket statements made in this post.

now there's a guy who has his shiit together.:thumbsup:

 

[TexasLifter89]

I have used AP and Drive...they both did very little for me. Drive acutally did nothing! I have come to the conclusion like many on this site that supplements are alot of hype.

I have dosed Epistane & Dermacrine....now those worked! Steroids definitely work. Epistaine for eg. is a steroid not a supplement. I don't think it's correct to use the word supplement and steroids in the same sentence as they are 2 different things. Supplements for the most part are mainly hype and a cash grab. My educated opinion of course!

The goals of those on this thread is "getting ripped" For me it's diet...low carbs and cycling them, cardio, and H-drol and 11-oxo next due to their leaning out qualities.

Lucky

drive has offered results for people. their are such instances though where people dont respond...possibly you are one of them? AP and drive are both shown to have worked for many people, so i dont think its fair to say they dont work. Of course steroids work, but its all about the price you are willing to pay on your body that is why many people choose supplements instead. As dreamweaver stated with the right combination of herbals a person can have just as effective results.

 

[DreamWeaver]

now there's a guy who has his shiit together.:thumbsup:

Thank you, I like to think I've learned something in the last 20 years. :think:

 

[jakellpet]

I have used AP and Drive...they both did very little for me. Drive acutally did nothing! I have come to the conclusion like many on this site that supplements are alot of hype.

I have dosed Epistane & Dermacrine....now those worked! Steroids definitely work. Epistaine for eg. is a steroid not a supplement. I don't think it's correct to use the word supplement and steroids in the same sentence as they are 2 different things. Supplements for the most part are mainly hype and a cash grab. My educated opinion of course!

The goals of those on this thread is "getting ripped" For me it's diet...low carbs and cycling them, cardio, and H-drol and 11-oxo next due to their leaning out qualities.

Lucky

Sounds like you're a non-responder - doesn't mean the products don't work. I've had great success with AP

 

[luclyluciano]

Sounds like you're a non-responder - doesn't mean the products don't work. I've had great success with AP

Perhaps I am a non-responder, but lately there are alot of non-responders on this site expressing the same sentiments as me. Have you read the write-ups on the packaging of Mass FX. I was soo excited when I got it. Quite the hype! It also did nothing for me, not even a tingle!

I prefer the write-ups on th packaging of products like Epitstane and Dermacrine. Something like..."take 3 caps 3 times per day, for no more than 4 weeks."
Their results speak for themselves, no HYPE! I know I am not the only one that feels this way! I have spent hours on this site reading threads. Many are saying these supps are nothing but bunk. I will not change my view until I finally take a Supp that actually does what it says for me. I have not given up. Just saying the Designers deliver!

Like the boys at NP have said to me personally...there is alot of exaggeration and placebo effect on this site. EG-Boys gaining 10 lbs of LBM in 1 week etc.

Anyhow...the topic of this thread is Getting Ripped.
My conclusion from my own experience is...it's all carb/diet manipulation and cardio. Don't rely on the magic pill...there is none.

Lucky

 

[DreamWeaver]

Perhaps I am a non-responder, but lately there are alot of non-responders on this site expressing the same sentiments as me. Have you read the write-ups on the packaging of Mass FX. I was soo excited when I got it. Quite the hype! It also did nothing for me, not even a tingle!

I prefer the write-ups on th packaging of products like Epitstane and Dermacrine. Something like..."take 3 caps 3 times per day, for no more than 4 weeks."
Their results speak for themselves, no HYPE! I know I am not the only one that feels this way! I have spent hours on this site reading threads. Many are saying these supps are nothing but bunk. I will not change my view until I finally take a Supp that actually does what it says for me. I have not given up. Just saying the Designers deliver!

Like the boys at NP have said to me personally...there is alot of exaggeration and placebo effect on this site. EG-Boys gaining 10 lbs of LBM in 1 week etc.

Anyhow...the topic of this thread is Getting Ripped.
My conclusion from my own experience is...it's all carb/diet manipulation and cardio. Don't rely on the magic pill...there is none.

Lucky

I have no experience with Mass Fx so I can't comment, but I have used a lot of supps that have really delivered and at this point in my life I'm pretty much immune to the placebo effect. I have been able to do things I have never been able to do before using some of the herbals like drive. Yah there is some hype but some of these supps really deliver (maybe not as well as some to the ads would have us believe but that can be passed off as a matter of perspective).

In my opinion using designers extensively at our age is ill advised. Maybe with the help of a doctor but the side effects I have encountered with my minimal use have made me think twice. Why risk it when I personally can get pretty much the same thing with the proper use of herbal products.

Oh and for a lot of these products there are not too many non-responders and I would say about 75-80% of those are just inexperienced and wouldn't know positive effects if they did get them. Just a guess but is seems to be a trend with non-repsonders they don't know how to use the supps properly or don't really know how to train and diet so they blame the supp. Not saying you are one of these but there are a lot of them.

 

[thebigt]

Perhaps I am a non-responder, but lately there are alot of non-responders on this site expressing the same sentiments as me. Have you read the write-ups on the packaging of Mass FX. I was soo excited when I got it. Quite the hype! It also did nothing for me, not even a tingle!

I prefer the write-ups on th packaging of products like Epitstane and Dermacrine. Something like..."take 3 caps 3 times per day, for no more than 4 weeks."
Their results speak for themselves, no HYPE! I know I am not the only one that feels this way! I have spent hours on this site reading threads. Many are saying these supps are nothing but bunk. I will not change my view until I finally take a Supp that actually does what it says for me. I have not given up. Just saying the Designers deliver!

Like the boys at NP have said to me personally...there is alot of exaggeration and placebo effect on this site. EG-Boys gaining 10 lbs of LBM in 1 week etc.

Anyhow...the topic of this thread is Getting Ripped.
My conclusion from my own experience is...it's all carb/diet manipulation and cardio. Don't rely on the magic pill...there is none.

Lucky

the problem is so many companies are trying to push stacks, instead of 1 product containing everything you need, you have to buy 3 products to get advertised results. how about ap/recreate/prime all in one, it will never happen.

 

[DreamWeaver]

the problem is so many companies are trying to push stacks, instead of 1 product containing everything you need, you have to buy 3 products to get advertised results. how about ap/recreate/prime all in one, it will never happen.

Yes but with these products there are one step closer as they are comprehensive... not sure about prime but I am assuming it is. Point is now we can take fewer products, or even run them solo, as many people will be doing with prime. I am in constant recomp so what I like to do is take something that will address my anabolic needs and something that will support fat loss. If you look at Recreate is actually addresses both these adding something only may enhance that. As a consumer I should try and avoid the more is better attitude and try these supps solo. I actually have it in mind to do less stacking.

 

[thebigt]

Yes but with these products there are one step closer as they are comprehensive... not sure about prime but I am assuming it is. Point is now we can take fewer products, or even run them solo, as many people will be doing with prime. I am in constant recomp so what I like to do is take something that will address my anabolic needs and something that will support fat loss. If you look at Recreate is actually addresses both these adding something only may enhance that. As a consumer I should try and avoid the more is better attitude and try these supps solo. I actually have it in mind to do less stacking.

i too am in a recomp stage most of the time, problem is i have learned that taking stims increases estrogen and cortisol + restricting cals can reduce test. it would be nice to have a carb modulator/fatburner/stim/anti-cort/anti-estrogen/test booster, all in one bottle. instead you would have to individually purchase ap/recreate/prime. i know where you are coming from, i agree with you on most things. just wish a supp company would break the mode and come up with a all-in-one.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Yes that would be nice, that's a lot in one product considering individually these products contain a lot of ingredients. I bet if they did though we'd still find reasons to take a bunch of other stuff.

 

[thebigt]

Yes that would be nice, that's a lot in one product considering individually these products contain a lot of ingredients. I bet if they did though we'd still find reasons to take a bunch of other stuff.

you know thats right. probably comes from the fact that we are stronger and bigger as bb's than the majority of the population and usda recommendations fall well short on our needs. i truly believe that supplements are under- dosed to make them safe for general population.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Particularly health type supplements that aren't aimed at us at all. Makes it expensive for us...

 

[thebigt]

Particularly health type supplements that aren't aimed at us at all. Makes it expensive for us...

couldn't agree more.:thumbsup:

 

[Big BAMA]

Particularly health type supplements that aren't aimed at us at all. Makes it expensive for us...

The truth can be painful and Expensive.

 

[luclyluciano]

I have no experience with Mass Fx so I can't comment, but I have used a lot of supps that have really delivered and at this point in my life I'm pretty much immune to the placebo effect. I have been able to do things I have never been able to do before using some of the herbals like drive. Yah there is some hype but some of these supps really deliver (maybe not as well as some to the ads would have us believe but that can be passed off as a matter of perspective).

In my opinion using designers extensively at our age is ill advised. Maybe with the help of a doctor but the side effects I have encountered with my minimal use have made me think twice. Why risk it when I personally can get pretty much the same thing with the proper use of herbal products.

Oh and for a lot of these products there are not too many non-responders and I would say about 75-80% of those are just inexperienced and wouldn't know positive effects if they did get them. Just a guess but is seems to be a trend with non-repsonders they don't know how to use the supps properly or don't really know how to train and diet so they blame the supp. Not saying you are one of these but there are a lot of them.

Ok Dreamweaver: If you could recommend just one or two herbal supps that would most definitely produce some kind of results, anykind at all, perhaps one that is your favorite, perhaps one that you know works for sure....what would it be.... because I will try them. I have really given up on herbal supps and coming from my perspective I am even shocked that you find them effective. I respect your opinion...but try looking at it from my perspective. I have taken the following with ZERO effects.

Lean Xtreme
Mass FX
Drive
Anabolic Pump gave me the massive dumps-common
Powerfull-excellent for deep sleep, now they say I have to use for 3-6 months so I do intend to re-order
Yohimbine

I am not naive about diet & training. I have taken myself from a slim 175 lb martial artist to 197 lb muscular weight trainer. Just frustrated with the herbals. Love Epistane & Dermacrine though. No sides! Surprised a guy your age has not used Dermacrine....great reviews especially after 40 crowd. Boost your test, amazing energy and well being boost, plus makes you smarter...yes I said smarter from the pregnolone (sp?)

 

[jakellpet]

Ok Dreamweaver: If you could recommend just one or two herbal supps that would most definitely produce some kind of results, anykind at all, perhaps one that is your favorite, perhaps one that you know works for sure....what would it be.... because I will try them. I have really given up on herbal supps and coming from my perspective I am even shocked that you find them effective. I respect your opinion...but try looking at it from my perspective. I have taken the following with ZERO effects.

Lean Xtreme
Mass FX
Drive
Anabolic Pump gave me the massive dumps-common
Powerfull-excellent for deep sleep, now they say I have to use for 3-6 months so I do intend to re-order
Yohimbine

I am not naive about diet & training. I have taken myself from a slim 175 lb martial artist to 197 lb muscular weight trainer. Just frustrated with the herbals. Love Epistane & Dermacrine though. No sides!

You've tried Anabolic Pump - what about P-Slin?

I haven't heard of any 'dump' problems with that, and it's probably the most insane preWO supp I have taken.

Im actually taking in postWO atm with interesting effects.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Ok Dreamweaver: If you could recommend just one or two herbal supps that would most definitely produce some kind of results, anykind at all, perhaps one that is your favorite, perhaps one that you know works for sure....what would it be.... because I will try them. I have really given up on herbal supps and coming from my perspective I am even shocked that you find them effective. I respect your opinion...but try looking at it from my perspective. I have taken the following with ZERO effects.

Lean Xtreme
Mass FX
Drive
Anabolic Pump gave me the massive dumps-common
Powerfull-excellent for deep sleep, now they say I have to use for 3-6 months so I do intend to re-order
Yohimbine

I am not naive about diet & training. I have taken myself from a slim 175 lb martial artist to 197 lb muscular weight trainer. Just frustrated with the herbals. Love Epistane & Dermacrine though. No sides! Surprised a guy your age has not used Dermacrine....great reviews especially after 40 crowd. Boost your test, amazing energy and well being boost, plus makes you smarter...yes I said smarter from the pregnolone (sp?)

Well you didn't respond to one of my favourites drive. I had an immediate response good clean energy then I achieved really nice muscle hardness.

I also really like recreate make you leaner and you get to keep all the muscle just eat around maintenance and watch the fat slowly disappear. Leviathan and DCP is also good for fat loss.

Stoked is a good product, I stacked it with Hyperdrol and got nice results. IGF2 is also decent. I have found that these products work better when you do some estrogen controll I have some eform on hand for that and dose lightly and run it as a staple. It's hard to get formestane now but there is a couple products with enough oral to run as a staple while using some of these products. I have not used a lot of products as I am quite selective and I am always recomping so I don't really go for big mass gains. I would keep an eye on Prime though I have a feeling it will be pretty good. Recreate really delivered so I am maybe a bit optimistic here.

Don't expect the sudden changes you get from designers like a sudden jump in strength or really quick development, herbals are more subtle and you can run them longer but in the long run you will end up with similar results provided you find a stack that works for you. Try to cover as many bases as you can and get good symmetry with your products. Herbals are very versatile this way. There are a lot more knowledgable supplement people out there besides me so do a lot of research. My experience helps me weed through this stuff and choose what's right for me but everyone has different goal/needs.

Be patient with these products try different things/combinations. You'll find things that work if your willing to do the time.

 

[thebigt]

this is an interesting thread, how did it get so far in the red? as always dreamweaver, intelligent remarks.

 

[DreamWeaver]

thanks...

I think it started out bad and seems to have developed into a fairly interesting exchange. I was just thinkng the same thing when I made my last post.