Oral DHEA supplementation improves recovery

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I've used AMS 1-andro and 4 AD in combo. It did absolutely nothing for me.
    I looked into their products a while ago and was interested in seeing how the RDe or whatever it was, did. From what I saw from logs of those who weren't seasoned in PH/PS/DS, they did not seem to be satisfied with the purchase at the high end of the recommended dose (for the AD series), as the gains usually didn't pass above the standard deviation of what's typically expected from individual gains on a slightly increased caloric intake along with an increase in workload or volume, based on the prenotion that the hormone would actually work. That being said, PCT was also not a problem for any of the users I've noticed, so it's either a very good, subtle and overpriced 'product' in general acting as mostly an anti-catabolic - or - it did nothing more than placebo.
    Freedom means nothing here.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I've been using DHEA for years primarily because oral DHEA seems to help overcome my tendency toward lethergy. Topical not so much. I typically take 100 mg/day. I personally like Diesel Test Pro because it also contains pregnenealone and DIM for E2 control plus a bunch of other goodies.
    I'm with you. For a while after ADv3 was gone, before FOCUS came out I was using DHEA and preg capsules, with lecithin, and a few other absorption 'enhancers' and grapefruit seed extract to increase the elimination half-life. I was happy in that it worked to an extent, but the FOCUS matrix blows it away and at 2 caps daily, it is fantastic.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I'm with you. For a while after ADv3 was gone, before FOCUS came out I was using DHEA and preg capsules, with lecithin, and a few other absorption 'enhancers' and grapefruit seed extract to increase the elimination half-life. I was happy in that it worked to an extent, but the FOCUS matrix blows it away and at 2 caps daily, it is fantastic.
    Lecithin caps, I like that! FOG, keepin' it old school.

    I still do the same thing stacked with some oil and miscibility promoters (probably similar to your concoction.) All nonGMO these days, of course.

    I'm not sure if DHEA improves recovery per say, to any significant degree short of 200+mg/day, but it does discourage general catabolism from my experience.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Lecithin caps, I like that! FOG, keepin' it old school.

    I still do the same thing stacked with some oil and miscibility promoters (probably similar to your concoction.) All nonGMO these days, of course.

    I'm not sure if DHEA improves recovery per say, to any significant degree short of 200+mg/day, but it does discourage general catabolism from my experience.
    Dr. D good to here from you again.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Lecithin caps, I like that! FOG, keepin' it old school.

    I still do the same thing stacked with some oil and miscibility promoters (probably similar to your concoction.) All nonGMO these days, of course.

    I'm not sure if DHEA improves recovery per say, to any significant degree short of 200+mg/day, but it does discourage general catabolism from my experience.
    Dr. D, good to see you, again! That's awesome that you mention non-GMO, as I am working on the site www.monsantomovement.com (just purchased it a few days ago) and www.monsantoprotest.com. Most soy in the country is GMO, but NOW claims theirs is not.

    Other than the anti-catabolic effects from DHEA from it's metabolites such as 7-keto-DHEA, it's effects on the brain are very awesome.

    I've been using the stack of FOCUS ('super' dhea and 'super' preg *enanthoxylated*), Citicoline, alpha GPC, p-serine matrix (Serinaid 20%), coq10, and a couple others... I wanted to add that recently I've tried a 5 day course of noopept and pramiracetam (15mg noopept and 200mg pram) and I'll be damned. The feeling is indescribable.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I've been using the stack of FOCUS ('super' dhea and 'super' preg *enanthoxylated*), Citicoline, alpha GPC, p-serine matrix (Serinaid 20%), coq10, and a couple others... I wanted to add that recently I've tried a 5 day course of noopept and pramiracetam (15mg noopept and 200mg pram) and I'll be damned. The feeling is indescribable.
    What's the "stack of FOCUS"?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    What's the "stack of FOCUS"?
    haha thinking same thing mang, Teach us force

  8. Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    haha thinking same thing mang, Teach us force
    I'm glad you guys are interested in the stack and the reasons behind it. FOCUS is the foundation of the entire stack that I am utilizing. FOCUS is a product by Andro Factory that uses 'enhanced' forms of DHEA and pregnenolone, combined with a potent delivery system, that makes for the most effective neuroenhancing matrix that I've ever experienced. I started using the combination of these enanthoxylated forms of DHEA and pregnenolone just over a year ago, until that company that produced that product went out of business and now it is back with a new & improved delivery system, requiring less capsules per serving.
    FOCUS by itself is what I would best describe as an 'neuro super-modulator', as it is the premier tool for optimizing the levels of almost EVERY single neurotransmitter in the brain and other hormones as well, ranging from GABA, dopamine, serotonin,... to cortisol, prolactin,... etc. It nourishes the adrenal glands and can be part of even the most advanced supplemental methods in sports nutrition science, including the metabolic overdrive, which utilizes pregnenlone, iodine, and some other compounds to completely 'reboot' thyroid function. I can't say enough about this product. It is also a stronghold for nootropics such as the racetams, as it modulates cholinergic channels and increases choline output.
    I'm quoting myself from a post after I purchased FOCUS and started supplementing with it, before I was asked to be a representative for Andro Factory. I have been boasting and recommending this particular product alone for ANYONE and EVERYONE looking for a 'lifestyle enhancement' in all facets, as this product has changed my life.
    I ordered a bottle of FOCUS immediately after I saw it was available. I thought it was too good to be true, but it's not. I got my bottle yesterday and I'm not disappointed. The way that I can decipher that it is working is by the way it culminates the effects of the choline I'm taking and some other things like p-serine. I've adjusted my choline intake by lowering the citicoline to 250mg in the morning, 900mg alpha gpc in the morning, and 1000mg p-serine (w/ p-choline in the Serinaid). I take 2 liquid caps in the morning with my handful of choline, p-serine, and coq10. Man, does it wrap up the gift basket and put a bow on top. My clarity of thoughts is razor-sharp, my memory is better with this cocktail than with Androdrive v3 alone, my motivation is sky high, and I find myself calmer and much more collected; Ready to take on the day. I received the bottle Monday afternoon and took 2 pills at around 1:30pm and this morning I took them at wakeup (8:00am). I am able to almost instantaneously recall some old memories, verbatim. Also, the synergy with the choline and the FOCUS gives me wicked, vivid, and lucid dreams while allowing me to operate on less hours of sleep with no decrease in cognitive function, but quite the inverse. I am feeling more on point than without this product. Enough ranting & raving for 1 post - 10 out of 10.
    Without FOCUS, other nootropic supplements, other choline sources, etc. have not worked properly and now I can finally attain the benefits that they were intended to give, as FOCUS assures that all systems are running properly.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I'm glad you guys are interested in the stack and the reasons behind it. FOCUS is the foundation of the entire stack that I am utilizing. FOCUS is a product by Andro Factory that uses 'enhanced' forms of DHEA and pregnenolone, combined with a potent delivery system, that makes for the most effective neuroenhancing matrix that I've ever experienced. I started using the combination of these enanthoxylated forms of DHEA and pregnenolone just over a year ago, until that company that produced that product went out of business and now it is back with a new & improved delivery system, requiring less capsules per serving.
    FOCUS by itself is what I would best describe as an 'neuro super-modulator', as it is the premier tool for optimizing the levels of almost EVERY single neurotransmitter in the brain and other hormones as well, ranging from GABA, dopamine, serotonin,... to cortisol, prolactin,... etc. It nourishes the adrenal glands and can be part of even the most advanced supplemental methods in sports nutrition science, including the metabolic overdrive, which utilizes pregnenlone, iodine, and some other compounds to completely 'reboot' thyroid function. I can't say enough about this product. It is also a stronghold for nootropics such as the racetams, as it modulates cholinergic channels and increases choline output.
    I'm quoting myself from a post after I purchased FOCUS and started supplementing with it, before I was asked to be a representative for Andro Factory. I have been boasting and recommending this particular product alone for ANYONE and EVERYONE looking for a 'lifestyle enhancement' in all facets, as this product has changed my life.

    Without FOCUS, other nootropic supplements, other choline sources, etc. have not worked properly and now I can finally attain the benefits that they were intended to give, as FOCUS assures that all systems are running properly.
    Very interesting, I would like to hear more about this! Hopefully somebody (that's not a rep) can tell us about their experiance

  10. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Very interesting, I would like to hear more about this! Hopefully somebody (that's not a rep) can tell us about their experiance
    I feel ya, brother! I need to build a trustworthy status with a representative before I will actually give merit to their experiences. I plan on doing my own write-up for my charity, non-profit project that's for those looking to attain a better life through reliable, healthy means. I look forward to our interaction, Alwaysfirst!
    Freedom means nothing here.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I feel ya, brother! I need to build a trustworthy status with a representative before I will actually give merit to their experiences. I plan on doing my own write-up for my charity, non-profit project that's for those looking to attain a better life through reliable, healthy means. I look forward to our interaction, Alwaysfirst!
    Post a link to it when you can.

  12. This is a good thread.

    I'm 43 and have been using a 4-DHEA product for a short time now. Strength gains have been nominal to non-existent this far. However, it does appear to be leaning me out as my bodyweight (192) remains the same yet my pants are looser around the waist and my abs, serratus, etc., are more defined. Also, and perhaps more importantly to me, given my age and some other factors including a high-stess job, has been the effect on my mood and libido. I've been dosing it at 150 to 200 milligrams and I'm been feeling better than I have in a very long time. The effect in this regard is comparable to how I felt when I was pinning test in my early to mid 20s (seriously). It's a good product IMO.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Post a link to it when you can.
    Will do, alwaysfirst!
    Freedom means nothing here.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    This is a good thread.

    I'm 43 and have been using a 4-DHEA product for a short time now. Strength gains have been nominal to non-existent this far. However, it does appear to be leaning me out as my bodyweight (192) remains the same yet my pants are looser around the waist and my abs, serratus, etc., are more defined. Also, and perhaps more importantly to me, given my age and some other factors including a high-stess job, has been the effect on my mood and libido. I've been dosing it at 150 to 200 milligrams and I'm been feeling better than I have in a very long time. The effect in this regard is comparable to how I felt when I was pinning test in my early to mid 20s (seriously). It's a good product IMO.
    JRam, that's awesome that you are reaping such benefits of 4-dhea. I honestly believe that the abilities of these dhea variants are great for the purposes of anti-catabolism, immune system support, slight anabolic capacity, fat loss, and 'neuro-enhancement'. I think that the dosage required for anabolic properties may be approaching the point of diminishing returns. My opinion and statement does not reflect that of any particular company or claims, but that is my personal opinion based on research, experiences, and overviews of many, many detailed user logs. When in an effective delivery system, 4-dhea seems to do just what you've reported and that seems to be the sweet spot. I'd love to get numbers to substantiate my thought that these dhea variants do not cause 'suppression' at therapeudic doses.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Dr. D good to here from you again.
    It seems like a long time! Good to see you're still around, too.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Dr. D, good to see you, again! That's awesome that you mention non-GMO, as I am working on the site www.monsantomovement.com (just purchased it a few days ago) and www.monsantoprotest.com. Most soy in the country is GMO, but NOW claims theirs is not.
    You should put the link to your new website in your sig.

    Yes, I see that NOW claims to use non-GMO Soy for their lecithin. I usually use that brand, and it seems to work well. I've also started trying to use their Sunflower Lecithin when I can find it. It's darker and more raw looking than Soy, and usually a cap or two is busted in the bottle (the softgel coating is more brittle at the seam) but it's PC content appears to be about 17% higher than Soy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Other than the anti-catabolic effects from DHEA from it's metabolites such as 7-keto-DHEA, it's effects on the brain are very awesome.
    It's good for just about everything, huh? At least the things that concern fellas like us. I once observed a guy with long-standing prostate cancer start using it daily stacked with Cholecalciferol, and 6 months later he no longer had cancer. Make of it what you may, but needless to say his doctor was dumbfounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I've been using the stack of FOCUS ('super' dhea and 'super' preg *enanthoxylated*), Citicoline, alpha GPC, p-serine matrix (Serinaid 20%), coq10, and a couple others... I wanted to add that recently I've tried a 5 day course of noopept and pramiracetam (15mg noopept and 200mg pram) and I'll be damned. The feeling is indescribable.
    Sounds like a potent stack indeed! I still haven't got around to trying Pramiracetam. How does it compare to others?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    This is a good thread.

    I'm 43 and have been using a 4-DHEA product for a short time now. Strength gains have been nominal to non-existent this far. However, it does appear to be leaning me out as my bodyweight (192) remains the same yet my pants are looser around the waist and my abs, serratus, etc., are more defined. Also, and perhaps more importantly to me, given my age and some other factors including a high-stess job, has been the effect on my mood and libido. I've been dosing it at 150 to 200 milligrams and I'm been feeling better than I have in a very long time. The effect in this regard is comparable to how I felt when I was pinning test in my early to mid 20s (seriously). It's a good product IMO.
    yeah this is def one of the proposed benefits of dhea, the reduction of stress, the military even did a study on it to see if admin to soldiers reduced their stress levels

  18. thanks for the info force!

  19. I've shyed away from soy because of it's potential to increase estrogen. I think it's pretty well documented that a low T/E ratio in conjunction with high levels of E2 are the primary cause of prostate cancer in men. 5-DHEA is pretty far up the hormonal stream. It can convert to a whole host of hormones including E2. Althouhgh I have taken DHEA for years I would not take without some type AI. I beleive that Cholecalciferol can work as a mild AI. I even use an AI when taking DHEA variants. I'm not completely convinced that 7-DHEA cannot convert to E2.

  20. Awesome subjects have been kicking up the momentum in this thread! I popped on real quick to check my PMs, but I'm going to respond here in an hour. Much appreciated for the information and experiences, braskibra, Dr. D., BBB, and everyone else.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I've shyed away from soy because of it's potential to increase estrogen. I think it's pretty well documented that a low T/E ratio in conjunction with high levels of E2 are the primary cause of prostate cancer in men. 5-DHEA is pretty far up the hormonal stream. It can convert to a whole host of hormones including E2. Althouhgh I have taken DHEA for years I would not take without some type AI. I beleive that Cholecalciferol can work as a mild AI. I even use an AI when taking DHEA variants. I'm not completely convinced that 7-DHEA cannot convert to E2.
    You def bring up some good points. I believe there have been a few studies on Soy that indicate it in fact does not raise E levels. Soy protein itself is a healthy source of protein with high amino levels of arginine and bcaas, plus it digests quickly. With that being said I myself prefer whey over soy protein but for those lactose intolerant soy might be an option. It does raise the question is the risk of soy elevating estrogen etc outweigh the benefits. For most people the answer is yes (risks outweigh benefits), as there are a plethora of other protein options.

    Havent heard the DHEA arguement, 1/2 men experience prostate issues so anything we can do to decrease the risk of prostate issues is huge.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    You def bring up some good points. I believe there have been a few studies on Soy that indicate it in fact does not raise E levels. Soy protein itself is a healthy source of protein with high amino levels of arginine and bcaas, plus it digests quickly. With that being said I myself prefer whey over soy protein but for those lactose intolerant soy might be an option. It does raise the question is the risk of soy elevating estrogen etc outweigh the benefits. For most people the answer is yes (risks outweigh benefits), as there are a plethora of other protein options.
    Havent heard the DHEA arguement, 1/2 men experience prostate issues so anything we can do to decrease the risk of prostate issues is huge.
    Good point about the cholecalciferol as well. Vitamin D3 increases dopamine levels and dopamine = antiprolactin hormone. I agree about the estrogenic effects of soy, so I take into account the amount of phosphatidylcholine (or whatever) and the % that it is standardized for. If something is isolated/standardized from a particular compound for mainly one consituent (ex. soy lecithin standardized to 50% p-choline), then the other percent that's not standardized may contain certain other consituents that bring unwelcome effects.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    You should put the link to your new website in your sig.

    Yes, I see that NOW claims to use non-GMO Soy for their lecithin. I usually use that brand, and it seems to work well. I've also started trying to use their Sunflower Lecithin when I can find it. It's darker and more raw looking than Soy, and usually a cap or two is busted in the bottle (the softgel coating is more brittle at the seam) but it's PC content appears to be about 17% higher than Soy.



    It's good for just about everything, huh? At least the things that concern fellas like us. I once observed a guy with long-standing prostate cancer start using it daily stacked with Cholecalciferol, and 6 months later he no longer had cancer. Make of it what you may, but needless to say his doctor was dumbfounded.



    Sounds like a potent stack indeed! I still haven't got around to trying Pramiracetam. How does it compare to others?
    Dr. D., there are several great points that you bring up that could spawn numerous threads by themselves and end up leading us down a rabit hole that would bring about some 'existential' discussion. Cancer is 'cureable' by all outward definitions. Many individuals, such as myself at one point in time being younger and naive, would think, "wouldn't it be great if we keep pumping money into these universities that have a Western-philosophical methodology, and maybe one day there will be a magic cancer vaccine?" I am going to state my personal opinion in conclusion to my views on Western medicine. There is no $money$ in curing a disease. The American Psychiatric Association has a quantum methodology. They even change their name with the times since being around for over a century and a half, beginning as the American Association of Superintendants for the Mentally Insane. They create a disease/disorder and then create a treatment for that disorder. For example, Paxil was being tested for FDA trials before the APA even created 'social anxiety disorder', for which Paxil was approved to 'treat'. The treatment eventually stops working, such as what they call a 'poop out' when antidepressants no longer mask the depression. A new medication is created or an old one is revived and put through another patent process to increase the cost of non-generic medication (ex. Abilify).

    As for nootropics in general, before I give my experience with pramiracetam, I want to add somethings. Before administering a nootropic and judging it's effects, you know as much or more than anyone Dr. D., the importance of due diligence on the source of the nootropic and having a dietary and supplemental foundation that is in place for the nootropic to deliver the beneficial results. Checking the CoA and making sure the dates and batch number match up with the origin and doing homework on the 3rd party analytical company is tantamount. I taste the powder with a fingertip to tongue, much like Pablo Escobar would with cocaine. For example, if a tiny dab of noopept doesn't burn my gums, it's not noopept.

    As nootropics are of course not treatments or cures for dietary insufficiency, they will most likely elicit the negative side effects (brain fog, anxiety, etc). If one is trying to justify an attack dose of 900mg of pramiracetam, they are missing the boat entirely; They're not even on the docks. Pramiracetam with my brain chemistry gives a sense of serenity, as well as enhanced clarity of thought and some creativity. Some people report that pramiracetam 'numbs emotions'. I do not find this the case in my situation. Combined with noopept, the combination gives a 'peppier' thought process without the need to hesitate out of confusion or fear. I have a phobia of snakes. I have had night terrors of being dropped in a snake pit like Indiana Jones and my skin would crawl as they surrounded me. A few weeks ago I was holding an albino python and a boa, my pulse did not raise nor spike. As with any racetam, it enhances the effects of other racetams and I find that the required dose to elicit such effects need be lowered accordingly. I use the smallest dose possible and will take both on an empty stomach with the lecithin and now I am going to add a tablespoon of coconut oil a few minutes prior to get some fats in the GI tract and MCTs in the bloodstream (I take it anyways).
    Freedom means nothing here.

  24. Cancer is like a snowball rolling down a hill. It increases in size and gains momentum with time. Therefore the earlier you catch it the better your chances of curing it. There is not a lot of information on cancer prevention. Just basically eat right and exercise but there are naturally occurring substances that that can help prevent it from occurring. One of the best is B17. It is heavily used for both prevention and treatment in most countries outside the US. My family and I have taken it for years. Read the book "A World Without Cancer". The drug companies are not interested in preventing cancer they make their money by treating it. D3, IC3, a good AI for hormonal cancers in both men and women and a whole host of antioxidants will also help.

  25. did you guys just see that!!!???! it was the thread flying over my head

    great posts all around btw

  26. So we're turning this into anti-evidence based medicine again? What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. Unless, of course, it's all one big conspiracy and every single drug company has agreed to withhold the release of a cancer cure.

    That antidepressants don't always work is a testament to the plasticity of the brain, not the inability (or lack of desire) of pharmaceutical companies to make an effective drug. You can also thank Western medicine for the fact that you're still alive. But hey, vaccines prevent diseases, so that's probably a hoax too

  27. Anyway, these discussions are rather worthless. Naturopaths won't change their opinions, just as I won't change mine. So carry on!

  28. did anyone see the AM newsletter today

    There was a study done on mice who were genetically altered to develop prostate CA. Half were fed with a diet of soy and tomatos and half were not, the group that were fed the soy and tomato diet were much less likely to develop prostate ca, all the mice in the control group did

    thought it was interesting considering our topic of soy and prostate ca

  29. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    So we're turning this into anti-evidence based medicine again? What do you mean there's no money in curing a disease? The first company to make a cure for cancer will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. Unless, of course, it's all one big conspiracy and every single drug company has agreed to withhold the release of a cancer cure.

    That antidepressants don't always work is a testament to the plasticity of the brain, not the inability (or lack of desire) of pharmaceutical companies to make an effective drug. You can also thank Western medicine for the fact that you're still alive. But hey, vaccines prevent diseases, so that's probably a hoax too
    im all for western med but arguing over this stuff is pointless haha

  30. Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    im all for western med but arguing over this stuff is pointless haha
    Agreed. I just get a little mad sometimes because I know people who have dedicated their lives to solving many of these issues. Sure, every business including healthcare has cheats, but I think it's extremely unfair how people make these unfounded and demeaning claims about western medicine. Imagine if I went around saying that police officers are murderers based on a few bad apples. Or that teachers purposely act in the worst interest of the student based on a few experiences with teachers who were unfair to me. I don't think people in those professions would be too happy to see my say that either
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