Supercharging Creatine With Baking Soda

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  1. I'm about to start my course of baking soda supplementation today. Already been taking creatine and beta alanine for a while, so adding this in should hopefully shine through as to what it adds individually.

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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough

    i agree with your line of thinking.. using potassium chloride salts where i can and incorporating high potassium containing greens and fruits to try to balance out my electrolyte intake.

    In this case...

    One, I'd have to read through some of the referenced papers and studies used to build this article before establishing an opinion on the viability of using potassium bicarbonate in place of sodium as I'm unsure if the effects are partial to the specific electrolyte included or the bicarbonate itself...

    Two, after reading the inserted reference to salt and hypertension, i don't know that having the extra sodium is necessarily going to be so much of a bad thing...as far as negative effects to health... BUT of course there are many other benefits to having a well balanced electrolyte intake and this would be a good way to get in a lil extra potassium....

    I think I'll be doing some more reading after i get back from the gym and reference back to here with my findings.
    http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2011/...netics-of.html

    Timing creatine away from meals would be option #2, option #1, on the other hand, would entail supplementing with some strong alkalizing agent such as sodium or potassium bicarbonate and in fact, this is exactly what KreAlkalyn, the purported "super-creatine" is - a ph-buffered creatine-monohydrate product.
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  3. ^^^ so while potassium bicarbonate can be used to buffer the acidic environment in the stomach, it seems sodium(Na) itself plays more elaborate roles in optimizing creatine uptake then just it's role when coupled with bicarbonate.(as explained further along in the same article linked above).

    This isn't even including the possibility of unique benefits attributable to NaCHO3 alone that i don't know are universally applicable to its counterpart KCHO3.

    But I'm sure it goes without saying having a surplus in both these precious electrolytes is far far better than lacking either or both.

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  4. The Na fraction being a better transporter seems plausible. No reason one couldn't mix the two, just to insure you're getting some decent K levels. I have taken Kbicarb pre WO many times and does seem to help with cardio endurance as well as overall buffering.I'll often drink down several grams prior to going into the steam room for an extra boost to muscle relaxation and detox.I do wish that the bicarbs tasted better..bleh.

  5. So, am I reading that first figure right? Looks to me like all that creatine and bicarbonate only increased Wattage by ~1% - from 970 to 980.
    Is a 1% change even relevant?
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  6. More is always better, lol. Do not discount that statement as it is the pillar of all body building exercise science!


    More Better BiO

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    More is always better, lol. Do not discount that statement as it is the pillar of all body building exercise science!


    More Better BiO
    Can't tell if you're serious or not. I'm just surprised that a 1% shift gave a significant p value. Obviously a 1% edge could make the difference for a competitive lifter, but it's so small that I'm not fully convinced the effect would remain significant with a larger sample size.
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  8. Mostly joking, but it is true that in this arena we explore every single possible avenue that could yield better results. Bearing in mind that this is just one study without a huge sample size, I tend to view it as either bunk or they are onto something. Since the ingredients are so cheap its just fun to see if its the latter.

    Here's an ad I just wrote for MuscleTech...

    "NaCHO3 and creatine mono is 100% better at delivering 1%gains than creatine mono alone!"

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Mostly joking, but it is true that in this arena we explore every single possible avenue that could yield better results. Bearing in mind that this is just one study without a huge sample size, I tend to view it as either bunk or they are onto something. Since the ingredients are so cheap its just fun to see if its the latter.

    Here's an ad I just wrote for MuscleTech...

    "NaCHO3 and creatine mono is 100% better at delivering 1%gains than creatine mono alone!"

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sex_panther01.gif 
Views:	763 
Size:	22.0 KB 
ID:	69327
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  10. Exactly!
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  11. i think the benefits really exist in the added effects of NaCHO3 itself, not what it does to creatine... What creatine monohydrate might honestly be the best route for most everyone...for the few that have exactly the wrong ph have problems with absorption and the worst ph environment possible, this will help there significantly....

    For the rest of us is just the 1% + it's own intrinsic effects

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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    i think the benefits really exist in the added effects of NaCHO3 itself, not what it does to creatine... What creatine monohydrate might honestly be the best route for most everyone...for the few that have exactly the wrong ph have problems with absorption and the worst ph environment possible, this will help there significantly....

    For the rest of us is just the 1% + it's own intrinsic effects

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Am.com
    I'm looking at the full text of the study JudoJosh linked to and I don't think pH is the mechanism through which HCO3(-) ellicits ergogenic benefit. There was no significant difference in serum pH either before or after training when HCO3 at 0.3g/kg was compared to placebo. It appears to be Base Excess that is significantly altered, increasing the blood's acid buffering capacity. Serum pH is very tightly regulated, so this makes sense to me.


    Edit: I stand corrected, pH may play a role after all. This has not been to press yet, so I don't have access to the full text yet, but the abstract is interesting.

    Eur J Appl Physiol. 2012 Sep 4. [Epub ahead of print]
    Sodium bicarbonate supplementation improves hypertrophy-type resistance exercise performance.

    Carr BM, Webster MJ, Boyd JC, Hudson GM, Scheett TP.
    Source

    School of Human Performance and Recreation, University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg, MS, USA, [email protected].

    Abstract

    The aim of the present study was to examine the effects of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO(3)) administration on lower-body, hypertrophy-type resistance exercise (HRE). Using a double-blind randomized counterbalanced design, 12 resistance-trained male participants (mean SD; age = 20.3 2 years, mass = 88.3 13.2 kg, height = 1.80 0.07 m) ingested 0.3 g kg(-1) of NaHCO(3) or placebo 60 min before initiation of an HRE regimen. The protocol employed multiple exercises: squat, leg press, and knee extension, utilizing four sets each, with 10-12 repetition-maximum loads and short rest periods between sets. Exercise performance was determined by total repetitions generated during each exercise, total accumulated repetitions, and a performance test involving a fifth set of knee extensions to failure. Arterialized capillary blood was collected via fingertip puncture at four time points and analyzed for pH, [HCO(3) (-)], base excess (BE), and lactate [Lac(-)]. NaHCO(3) supplementation induced a significant alkaline state (pH: NaHCO(3): 7.49 0.02, placebo: 7.42 0.02, P < 0.05; [HCO(3) (-)]: NaHCO(3): 31.50 2.59, placebo: 25.38 1.78 mEq L(-1), P < 0.05; BE: NaHCO(3): 7.92 2.57, placebo: 1.08 2.11 mEq L(-1), P < 0.05). NaHCO(3) administration resulted in significantly more total repetitions than placebo (NaHCO(3): 139.8 13.2, placebo: 134.4 13.5), as well as significantly greater blood [Lac(-)] after the exercise protocol (NaHCO(3): 17.92 2.08, placebo: 15.55 2.50 mM, P < 0.05). These findings demonstrate ergogenic efficacy for NaHCO(3) during HRE and warrant further investigation into chronic training applications.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve

    I'm looking at the full text of the study JudoJosh linked to and I don't think pH is the mechanism through which HCO3(-) ellicits ergogenic benefit. There was no significant difference in serum pH either before or after training when HCO3 at 0.3g/kg was compared to placebo. It appears to be Base Excess that is significantly altered, increasing the blood's acid buffering capacity. Serum pH is very tightly regulated, so this makes sense to me.

    Edit: I stand corrected, pH may play a role after all. This has not been to press yet, so I don't have access to the full text yet, but the abstract is interesting.

    Eur J Appl Physiol. 2012 Sep 4. [Epub ahead of print]
    Sodium bicarbonate supplementation improves hypertrophy-type resistance exercise performance.

    Carr BM, Webster MJ, Boyd JC, Hudson GM, Scheett TP.
    Source

    School of Human Performance and Recreation, University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg, MS, USA, [email protected].

    Abstract

    The aim of the present study was to examine the effects of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO(3)) administration on lower-body, hypertrophy-type resistance exercise (HRE). Using a double-blind randomized counterbalanced design, 12 resistance-trained male participants (mean SD; age = 20.3 2 years, mass = 88.3 13.2 kg, height = 1.80 0.07 m) ingested 0.3 g kg(-1) of NaHCO(3) or placebo 60 min before initiation of an HRE regimen. The protocol employed multiple exercises: squat, leg press, and knee extension, utilizing four sets each, with 10-12 repetition-maximum loads and short rest periods between sets. Exercise performance was determined by total repetitions generated during each exercise, total accumulated repetitions, and a performance test involving a fifth set of knee extensions to failure. Arterialized capillary blood was collected via fingertip puncture at four time points and analyzed for pH, [HCO(3) (-)], base excess (BE), and lactate [Lac(-)]. NaHCO(3) supplementation induced a significant alkaline state (pH: NaHCO(3): 7.49 0.02, placebo: 7.42 0.02, P < 0.05; [HCO(3) (-)]: NaHCO(3): 31.50 2.59, placebo: 25.38 1.78 mEq L(-1), P < 0.05; BE: NaHCO(3): 7.92 2.57, placebo: 1.08 2.11 mEq L(-1), P < 0.05). NaHCO(3) administration resulted in significantly more total repetitions than placebo (NaHCO(3): 139.8 13.2, placebo: 134.4 13.5), as well as significantly greater blood [Lac(-)] after the exercise protocol (NaHCO(3): 17.92 2.08, placebo: 15.55 2.50 mM, P < 0.05). These findings demonstrate ergogenic efficacy for NaHCO(3) during HRE and warrant further investigation into chronic training applications.
    ...No the ph i was referring to was in regards to the stomach environment. (http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2011/...netics-of.html)

    Although buffering the build up of hydrogen ions and ph environment in the muscle is def an effect of NaHCO3.

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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    ...No the ph i was referring to was in regards to the stomach environment. (http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2011/...netics-of.html)

    Although buffering the build up of hydrogen ions and ph environment in the muscle is def an effect of NaHCO3.

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    Interesting. Seems a lot more feasible to just take creatine on an empty stomach, but I suppose if you eat a big meal right before lifting or something, this could be of benefit. I don't trust figure 2 at all though.


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  15. Random question, I figured I'd post it here b/c it's regarding creatine..Have you guys noticed a difference taking creapure w/ carbs vs w/o? Less wasting?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mcc23 View Post
    Random question, I figured I'd post it here b/c it's regarding creatine..Have you guys noticed a difference taking creapure w/ carbs vs w/o? Less wasting?
    If you read the article Sourdough posted above, it suggests taking creatine on an empty stomach is best.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve

    If you read the article Sourdough posted above, it suggests taking creatine on an empty stomach is best.
    Exactly. Taking it with food and carbs will slow down its uptake from the gut and intestines into circulation... funny thing is, eating actually helps uptake from circulation in the blood stream into the muscles. So a fasted dose pre workout will get it into circulation then your post workout meal should help its uptake into the muscles, especially in that super insulin sensitive environment.

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