Vitamin D....

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    What you are experiencing is called placebo. A vitamin D deficiency will take months to years to manifest, and about the same amount of time to be reversed.
    Placebo?? re-read what I wrote, I couldn't figure out what it was, I had to go over what it was that I did differently. If I knew what it was then I can vouch for a placebo. I took it without any expectations.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by dondon View Post
    Placebo?? re-read what I wrote, I couldn't figure out what it was, I had to go over what it was that I did differently. If I knew what it was then I can vouch for a placebo. I took it without any expectations.
    You don't need concious expectations for placebo to be at play.
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  3. Placebo or not, if its improved your quality of life then that's good for you.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You don't need concious expectations for placebo to be at play.
    Okay, that may be right, but you just can't turn testosterone on and off, not like I witnessed. I been in this game a long time, I've had many supplements that worked and had some (actually most) that didn't work, so I do know what I'm experiencing is not placebo, its been consistent everyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by broons View Post
    Placebo or not, if its improved your quality of life then that's good for you.
    Its a life saver and it worked for me...the least expensive with the least expectation did the most for me, go figure.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Vitamin D supplementation doesn't prevent or reduces symptoms and duration of the common cold when 25(OH)D levels are sufficient:
    jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1367547


    (Now need 150 posts to post links?!)
    The answer to that question is yes apparently
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  6. A deeper look into the paper of the OP is quite interesting. The Vit D group consumed more calories overall, and vit D seemed to stimulate appetite as the change in caloric consumption after 12 weeks was much higher in the vit D group.

    The vit D group had an obvious decline in PTH levels, showing that supplemental calcium and Vit D are sufficient for raising blood calcium levels (if you didn't already know this). Statistical significance isn't the be all, end all.

    BUUUUUUUT, here's a figure that ergolog conveniently left out in their latest article:



    So absolute fat mass trended towards an increase over placebo in the vit D group, yet the waist-to-hip ratio decreased. So ergolog's extrapolations are actually quite false. It would appear that vit D alters fat distribution and negatively affects overall body comp, as suppversity concluded.

  7. Should I stop taking my vitamin D?

    confuzzled...will stop for now

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    Should I stop taking my vitamin D?

    confuzzled...will stop for now
    Yeah just for now or until there are more positive studies posted about it....Tomorrow or next week it will be recommended again. LMAO. Every-time the win blows a different direction. I'm sure if you search hard enough you can find as positive and negative studies on anything.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    Should I stop taking my vitamin D?

    confuzzled...will stop for now
    No

    the lessen here is more is not always better. If you are vit D deficient then supplementation may be beneficial for you but if you are not AND are mega dosing vitD (which seems to be a popular trend) then it may NOT be as beneficial for you as one might think.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Yeah just for now or until there are more positive studies posted about it....Tomorrow or next week it will be recommended again. LMAO. Every-time the win blows a different direction. I'm sure if you search hard enough you can find as positive and negative studies on anything.
    I hate this mindset
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  10. coop, there's something I'd like to point out about that graph which you may have momentarily forgotten. In statistics, if you have error bars like that that intersect each other at any point between different bars/data points, it means there's no statistical significance. So what one is supposed to get out of that graph is that there is no significant change in either lean mass or fat mass during the experiment.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    coop, there's something I'd like to point out about that graph which you may have momentarily forgotten. In statistics, if you have error bars like that that intersect each other at any point between different bars/data points, it means there's no statistical significance. So what one is supposed to get out of that graph is that there is no significant change in either lean mass or fat mass during the experiment.
    I am aware. However, one of my gripes with literature is that statistical significance does not always accurately equate to biological significance. Trending towards an endpoint cannot be ignored if consistently expressed

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    statistical significance does not always accurately equate to biological significance.
    I agree. I think it's important to point out, though, that averages like this involve reducing scattered data into simplified bars that don't quite capture the range of the data. That's why the error bars are included. So what those bars are saying is that it's very likely any differences in lean or fat mass gains *are* due to statistical artifacts, not treatments.

    Can real causal relationships be hiding under that? Sure. But it would be inappropriate to draw such conclusions from this kind of data that shows there is no difference between the two groups in changes in these parameters.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    I agree. I think it's important to point out, though, that averages like this involve reducing scattered data into simplified bars that don't quite capture the range of the data. That's why the error bars are included. So what those bars are saying is that it's very likely any differences in lean or fat mass gains *are* due to statistical artifacts, not treatments.

    Can real causal relationships be hiding under that? Sure. But it would be inappropriate to draw such conclusions from this kind of data that shows there is no difference between the two groups in changes in these parameters.
    I don't disagree. Look at it in the context of the present vitamin D data and you'll see where I'm coming from, particularly with respect to fat mass correlations.

  14. I get out in the sun a ton already and vit d is so cheap that mothballing my $11 bottle of 400 ct 10000 IU vit d capsules is no big economic loss. You convinced me Coop

  15. and the plot thickens...

    Turns out the relationship between supplementing with vitD and getting the cold turns out to be just a correlation and not causative.

    Effect of vitamin D3 supplementation on upper respiratory tract infections in healthy adults: the VIDARIS randomized controlled trial.

    Abstract

    CONTEXT:
    Observational studies have reported an inverse association between serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OHD) levels and incidence of upper respiratory tract infections (URTIs). However, results of clinical trials of vitamin D supplementation have been inconclusive.

    OBJECTIVE:
    To determine the effect of vitamin D supplementation on incidence and severity of URTIs in healthy adults.

    DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS:
    Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial conducted among 322 healthy adults between February 2010 and November 2011 in Christchurch, New Zealand.

    INTERVENTION:
    Participants were randomly assigned to receive an initial dose of 200,000 IU oral vitamin D3, then 200,000 IU 1 month later, then 100,000 IU monthly (n = 161), or placebo administered in an identical dosing regimen (n = 161), for a total of 18 months.

    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
    The primary end point was number of URTI episodes. Secondary end points were duration of URTI episodes, severity of URTI episodes, and number of days of missed work due to URTI episodes.

    RESULTS:
    The mean baseline 25-OHD level of participants was 29 (SD, 9) ng/mL. Vitamin D supplementation resulted in an increase in serum 25-OHD levels that was maintained at greater than 48 ng/mL throughout the study. There were 593 URTI episodes in the vitamin D group and 611 in the placebo group, with no statistically significant differences in the number of URTIs per participant (mean, 3.7 per person in the vitamin D group and 3.8 per person in the placebo group; risk ratio, 0.97; 95% CI, 0.85-1.11), number of days of missed work as a result of URTIs (mean, 0.76 days in each group; risk ratio, 1.03; 95% CI, 0.81-1.30), duration of symptoms per episode (mean, 12 days in each group; risk ratio, 0.96; 95% CI, 0.73-1.25), or severity of URTI episodes. These findings remained unchanged when the analysis was repeated by season and by baseline 25-OHD levels.

    CONCLUSION:
    In this trial, monthly administration of 100,000 IU of vitamin D did not reduce the incidence or severity of URTIs in healthy adults.
    A randomized controlled trial of vitamin D3 supplementation for the prevention of symptomatic upper respiratory tract infections.



    Abstract

    Vitamin D has been shown to be an important immune system regulator. Vitamin D insufficiency during winter may cause increased susceptibility to upper respiratory tract infections (URIs). To determine whether vitamin D supplementation during the winter season prevents or decreases URI symptoms, 162 adults were randomized to receive 50 microg vitamin D3 (2000 IU) daily or matching placebo for 12 weeks. A bi-weekly questionnaire was used to record the incidence and severity of URI symptoms. There was no difference in the incidence of URIs between the vitamin D and placebo groups (48 URIs vs. 50 URIs, respectively, P=0.57). There was no difference in the duration or severity of URI symptoms between the vitamin D and placebo groups [5.4+/-4.8 days vs. 5.3+/-3.1 days, respectively, P=0.86 (95% CI for the difference in duration -1.8 to 2.1)]. The mean 25-hydroxyvitamin D level at baseline was similar in both groups (64.3+/-25.4 nmol/l in the vitamin D group; 63.0+/-25.8 nmol/l in the placebo group; n.s.). After 12 weeks, 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels increased significantly to 88.5+/-23.2 nmol/l in the vitamin D group, whereas there was no change in vitamin D levels in the placebo group. There was no benefit of vitamin D3 supplementation in decreasing the incidence or severity of symptomatic URIs during winter. Further studies are needed to determine the role of vitamin D in infection.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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