Ziquor dwelves into the Abyss
- 06-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Ziquor dwelves into the Abyss
1st I'd like to thank Nimbus for their generosity and they're great product line. I've been hooked on Poseidon for quite some time now. I received my bottle of Abyss earlier this week and wanted to share my thought, a mini-review if you will. In my 32 years I've experienced many sleepless nights and for many reasons. I suppose it doesn't help that the guys on my fathers side of my family have always been very light sleepers, to say the least. I've used many sleep aides in the past including nearly the entire line-up of prescription sleep/anxiety meds, and herbals such as melatonin, phenibut, GABA, tryptophan, and kava just to name a few.
I've stayed away from prescripted meds for years now. For those with chronic sleep trouble, in the end they typically cause rebound insomnia/anxiety and make you feel even worse than you have before. Prescription sleep & anxiety meds modulate the Gaba-A receptors and depress the CNS which can cause a permanent change in which the way the brain perceives anxiety and nervous function. I've been happy with the hebal supps I've used the past few years but I'm always looking for something different, or better. I've never tried stacking herbals either, so I was very intirgued by the combo in Abyss. A brief rundown:
Phenibut: Phenibut is structurally related to Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA), but Phenibut crosses the blood brain barrier (BBB) a little more efficiently. It works by modulating the GABA receptors. However unlike prescription meds which modulate the Gaba-A receptor units, Phenibut has strong affinity for the Gaba-B receptors. It's important to note that modulation of Gaba-A, as I stated above, can lead to brain wave changes and can be very habit forming. On the other hand, Gaba-B modulation can promote smooth muscle relaxation, and add some calming elements to the brain by regulating the release of neurotransmitters. This improves overall brain function and mental clarity as well. And due to the lack of CNS supression Gaba-B stimulation can result in relaxation and overall mood improvement without the negative effects of prescription Gaba-A inhibitors. Phenibut being a relatively potent Gaba-B inhibitor is a great 'starting point' for the ingredient mix of Abyss.
Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid: Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) as I mentioned previously is structurely similar to Phenibut. And while GABA doesn't cross the BBB as efficiently as Phenibut it still has some unique effects of its own helping lower anxiety. It also, is a Gaba-B inhibitor similar to Phenibut with less pronounced effects. GABA has also been known to increase growth hormone during sleeping. That said Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid with it's solid effects, combined with Phenibut, you have a heck of a nice GABA modulation combo thus far.
L-Theanine: L-Theanine is related to glutamine, and L-Theanine crosses the BBB as well. Theanine has been shown to reduce mental and physical stress, & has produced feelings of relaxation. L-Theanine has been shown to increase the bodies own natural production of GABA. Studies have shown that L-Theanine also has effects on increasing serotonin and dopamine levels for a relaxed & improved mood by enhancing the brains 'pleasure' points.
L-Tryptophan: Tryptophan helps increase brain levels of serotonin for improved mood. Also Tryptophan's been shown to increase production of melatonin as well, which triggers the bodies circadian rhythm and gives us those natural feelings of sleepiness & relaxation.
Methylcobalamin: Methylcobalamin is a form of vitamin B12 which is active in the central nervous system. It helps keep nerves stong & healthy via the acceleration of nerve cell growth, along with its ability to maintain healthy homocysteine levels. Methylcobalamin deficiency is extremely high in most parts of the world, including the US. Some feel this is due to different metals we consume or possibly our water supply. Either way, Methylcobalamin deficiency can cause nerves to not fire properly resulting in nervousness and the lack of ability to stay asleep.
ZMA: We've probably all heard of ZMA's many benefits. Magnesium deficiency is rampant among adults and can result in nervousness and arrythmias so proper magnesium levels are critical for health & relaxation. Studies have also shown the combination of zinc, magnesium, & pyridoxine over a period of time increased muscle strength, free test levels, and IGF-1 compared to placebo.
This seems to be an excellent stack of ingredients which would have super synergy. Excellent not only for proper nerve function and sleep enhancement, but with the ingredients ability to increase HGH levels as well. Which can also help with sleep and the regeneration of cells to help stay young and healthy on the inside & out.
- 06-13-2008, 06:06 PM
The 1st evening I began to dose Abyss was Monday. The label recommends 2-4 capsules 30 minutes before bed. I decided to start with 3 & go from there to see what worked best for me. I took 3 caps on an empty stomach and about 20 minutes later layed down. I didn't really 'feel' anything per se, but before I knew it I was waking about 4 hours later to go to the bathroom. It typically takes an hour or so for me to fall asleep so this was impressive on its own. I also had no trouble falling back asleep either, and I awoke the next morning feeling pretty damn good. I definitely feel this to be good results for the 1st night.
- 06-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Tuesday night after an extremely long day, I decided not to supplement as I was exhausted anyhow. Plus as with many supplements in general, I feel anything for sleep should be cycled. This brings us to Wednesday evening. About 90 minutes after my last meal of the day I decided to take a 4 cap Abyss dose. To my amazement I woke about 7.5 hours later, the next day. I have an extremely difficult time sleeping through the entire night with the exception of when I took prescription sleep aides. But as I mentioned before due to the many possible complications, I feel they're definitely the wrong way to go. Also in the past when I've taken the prescribed meds, I slept through the night but also had a hell of a time waking up the next day, as I usually had a terrible 'sleep hangover'. This was not the case at all with Abyss. I slept throughout the entire night and woke up the next day feeling really good, & refreshed. I've actually had relatively bad sleep hang overs in the past from Phenibut alone, so the dosages and nice mix in Abyss seems to be perfect. Thus far I'm highly impressed by this product.
06-13-2008, 06:27 PM
Hmm, I might have to give this a shot. I never sleep worth a crap, especially the last few years.
What I've been using lately is a combo of ZMA-650mgs, Diphenhydramine HCL-25mgs, Choline/Insitol-1,000mgs, plus sleep time tea (don't laugh) which contains Chamomile-600mgs, Tilla estrella-160mgs and Valerian-25mgs. As you could imagine it's pretty ridiculous to buy all this sht separate. So how much is Abyss? Cause I'm looking at a few other bbing type sleep aids too.
06-13-2008, 06:33 PM
06-13-2008, 06:34 PM
I have been looking into this supplement......
i just worry about "addiction"
06-13-2008, 06:43 PM
06-13-2008, 06:46 PM
06-13-2008, 06:47 PM
I want too fcuk your avy like an ANIMAL Zi-co!!!!!!! lol.....
06-13-2008, 06:52 PM
06-13-2008, 06:58 PM
06-13-2008, 07:08 PM
06-13-2008, 07:18 PM
5-6 hours a sleep a night max some times only 4 or so and that's smokin, taking xanax and Benadryl!!!
I hear sleeps not a big issue on super cause the lethargy puts you out so bad but we'll see soon enough I guess.
06-15-2008, 02:53 PM
Well it's Sunday now this past week has honestly been great. I've used Abyss 4 nights this past week. I found my personal sweet spot to be 4 caps which does wonders for me. I can without a doubt say that I highly recommend this to anyone who has sleeping troubles, or just even for those 'off nights'. Thanks to the nice combo Nimbus put together, along with what seems to be perfect doses of each, Abyss is far superior to anything herbal I've tried yet. As I've said I've had success with Phenibut alone but it does have its drawbacks as well. With Abyss I feel none of those drawbacks of stand-alone Phenibut. It also works better for me than Melatonin solo.
Abyss puts me right to sleep about 45 minutes after each dose. I sleep very well throughout the entire night w/o disturbance. Having such an extensive history of sleep disturbances I'm more than satisfied with Abyss. Not only is the excellent sleep priceless but after my 4/cap dosing nights, the next day mornings I always feel energetic & excited. I've never felt this way from Phenibut, GABA, or Melatonin alone. It seems the excellent nights rest combined with Abyss abilities to increase brain serotonin levels gives an amazing nights sleep and has you waking the next day feeling outstanding and ready to go.
I'm possibly one of the biggest skeptics when it comes to the supp world these days and as such sometimes can be a harsh critic. I usually end up being disappointed way more than satisfied, but not the case here. Seems Nimbus once again has another outstanding product to add to their great line.
06-15-2008, 03:51 PM
06-15-2008, 04:35 PM
06-15-2008, 04:37 PM
as with any sleep aid, would this create dependancy? or have the potential to with abuse?
06-15-2008, 05:01 PM
Also if it's used as directed and cycled I don't feel there's any way someone could be addicted to it, physically or mentally. Even if one were to take it every day for months I'd rate the abuse potential extremely low, somewhere near Melatonin. It doesn't affect the brain in the same ways that prescription meds such as benzodiazepines and 'Z' sleep meds do. It's not 'abusable' per se like these presciption drugs in that it doesn't make you 'high', or give you a false sense of well being.
06-16-2008, 02:27 AM
I'm in Z. Nice job so far!
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
06-16-2008, 03:10 AM
I'm In... I'll try to catch up a bit... looking to see what Abyss can do.
The Historic PES Legend
06-16-2008, 05:24 AM
Nice reviews Z. Great to hear that Abyss is helping you get some quality sleep!!! :thumbups:
As for the dependency question, it's not a very likely thing at all. As with everything moderation is the key, which is why we recommend reasonable dosing protocols like Z is doing. I.E. 4days/week or 2on 1off.
~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!
06-16-2008, 08:02 AM
06-16-2008, 08:03 AM
Melatonin wore off, it doesen't even work for me anymore. I bought those 1mg tablets.
I had a good experience from it for about a week, then that was it.
06-16-2008, 08:47 AM
i am looking into abyss also.
powerfull worked for me, REM seemed to have a rebound so to speak.
i would dose like the bottle stated, i would get 4-6 hours of sleep, then wake, remain awake for an hour or so then return to sleep. i finally had to give up on it...
30 bucks is relatively cheap so i will probably give it a go.
thank for the log,Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
06-16-2008, 07:55 PM
06-16-2008, 08:00 PM
06-16-2008, 08:13 PM
I can say with the utmost confidence that Abyss is well worth the money from my 1st week. Another thing I'd like to note, is on the days I wake up and feel well rested, I also feel very calm and relaxed throughout the day. To me thus far, I've got great sleep and I've also noticed a more positive mood which very well may be correlated to the boost in serotonin.
06-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Nice...I'm sold! Just what I needed too more supps to buy lol.....Man I've been looking for something natty to help with the ZzzzZzzz. Waking up at 4:30am gets pretty scary for my co-workers when I'm trying to shake a benadryl hangover!!
Anything over 50mgs of that sht and I feel like I'm on Heroin or something without the good feelings lol......
Def going to give this a shot!
06-23-2008, 07:01 PM
Sounding good Ziquor. Have you noticed any toleranced/decreased effectiveness after using it for a few weeks? And have you been using it nightly?
06-23-2008, 07:13 PM
06-23-2008, 09:03 PM
abyss has an excellent ingredient profile -- notice any crazy dreams from this supplement? i've heard that zma/gaba combo can induce realistic sexual dreams-- i don't know if the sexual part of it has specifically to do with the ZMA, but phenibut also has a crazy effect on me where i either want to ****/jerk off all the time.
06-23-2008, 09:45 PM
06-24-2008, 02:38 AM
The 5-on-2-off approach sounds like a nice protocol. Keep it up, G!Originally Posted by Ziquor;
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