mega-dosed dhea and atd

[haroldjg]

Well, I always discounted dhea because, much like most the people I have talked to, I just didnt get it. I didnt get how it could convert at any substantial rate to something somewhat desireable. I mean, I always knew about the anti-catabolic effects and such, but I never thought it was ever really worth the possible suppression.

Now here I am, thinking the complete opposite. It wasnt until lg sciences joined the board that I realized how much potential dhea and its metabolites actually have. Ever since that faithful day that I stumbled accross the thread "how androsterone works", I have been researching non-stop these fabulous little hormones.

After much research, I have come to the conclusion that it is time for me to perform a little experiment. I am going to mega-dose dhea with a fairly high dose of atd. I have been bulking a little bit to sloppilly and I need to shed a little bit of fat.... approximately five pounds. What I hope to achieve is a really nice recomp. I want to drop about five pounds of fat while only loosing a couple of pounds in the process. I have contemplated throwing other cutting goodies in there too, but I think for the sake of the experiment I will leave them out. (I was thinking about some thyro-tabs and some tta and some forslean) I think that this idea should be fairly interesting to most of you guys, hence why I have decided to keep a record of my progress.

The experiment will last 4 weeks. I believe that 4 weeks should be enough time to gauge whether or not mega-dosed dhea can in fact be a viable bodybuilding tool. If at the end of those four weeks the results are not noteworthy, the experiment will end. I will keep my training and diet the same. I only eat slightly over maintenance and very rarely ever binge. I feel that dhea's main advantage would be for a recomp effect. I doubt anyone would ever put on like 5 lbs clean in a month off this stuff, but it may still have its purpose as a low suppression recomp substance. I will be missing a few days at the gym during the experiment just because I will be moving to miami in two weeks. Other than that, there shouldnt really be any interuptions.

So what do you guys say, do you guys feel that it is worth it for me to log it? Or could you care less? I just feel that this log could be a benefit to the forum because I havent come accross any other ones like it.

As well, everything will be taken orally. We already know that dermacrine works, so there is no need to log a cheap reproduction of that.

 

[Steveoph]

I'd be interested in seeing how it turns out. Maybe just give us weekly updates, it sounds interesting Good luck, and post a link to your log if you get it up.

 

[Cordeen]

Here's a similar thread from the past. Not sure whatever became of it.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolic-xtreme/75755-dr-p-s.html

 

[ReaperX]

This is basically what Superdrol-NG is.

 

[TripDog]

Personally I would use something other than ATD (6 0x0).

 

[3clipseGT]

Yea ATD will kill your libido at higher doses. 6 oxo like trip suggested or something along those lines.

 

[mattikus]

If the question is: I'm gonna do it, should I log it? I say heck yes!

If the question is: Should I do it? I say MMM Maybe. I agree with Trip and 3clipse that 6oxo or maybe even 6bromo should be used instead of atd. Formestane would be awesome.

 

[3clipseGT]

If the question is: I'm gonna do it, should I log it? I say heck yes!

If the question is: Should I do it? I say MMM Maybe. I agree with Trip and 3clipse that 6oxo or maybe even 6bromo should be used instead of atd. Formestane would be awesome.

Formestane and 6 bromo are both the sh!t! Love em both!

 

[haroldjg]

The question is. I am going to do it, should I log it. Yah, it is similiar to ng, but no other stuff.... I remember some people attributing the effects to the yohimbine in it. Plus, I am going to use much, much larger doses. like tripple the ng dose.

 

[haroldjg]

I am thinking anywhere between 1-2grams per day. As well, I am using atd. I dont care about the libido loss. From my research it seems, that the libido loss id due mostly to the sarmetic affects. I remember reading studies where it really didnt affect estradiol and estrone that much. Anyways, it is what I am going to do. I am thinking of running the atd at around 100mg/day. I repeat, I dont care about the libido loss.

 

[3clipseGT]

The question is. I am going to do it, should I log it. Yah, it is similiar to ng, but no other stuff.... I remember some people attributing the effects to the yohimbine in it. Plus, I am going to use much, much larger doses. like tripple the ng dose.

You could always go with M1D and just up the dose a bit. It has better bioavailability and the metabolism complex helps more of the dhea turn into the better compounds.

 

[TripDog]

I am thinking anywhere between 1-2grams per day. As well, I am using atd. I dont care about the libido loss. From my research it seems, that the libido loss id due mostly to the sarmetic affects. I remember reading studies where it really didnt affect estradiol and estrone that much. Anyways, it is what I am going to do. I am thinking of running the atd at around 100mg/day. I repeat, I dont care about the libido loss.

Do it and log it...I'll check it out.

 

[haroldjg]

yah, I was thinking about m-1-d, but I am leaning towards super high does dhea just because it far more available to most people and much cheaper. I mostly want to do this because I remember way back when people were talking about this a lot, but very few people tried it. Now that I have read more about it, I think it is worth the shot. If it works, it would be extremely affordable for anyone and pretty easy on the body.

 

[haroldjg]

As well, just to add, I have never really experienced much of a libido loss from atd. It has been a few years since I used it, but I have went up 100mg/day without any problems. I know the atd was good though because it was designer supps.

 

[JaredGalloway]

i dont think atd is the best option...from what ive heard atd is a suicide inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme and down regulates androgen receptors...i might have this wrong but i was told by someone on here that this is the case...if this is correct then the dhea u are taking wont be able to convert highly to different androgens...i would personally use a high dose of formestane and 2grams of grape seed extract...

 

[JaredGalloway]

i am actually doing this right now...but i take 500mgs b4 workouts with 1gram of grape seed extract...just doing this to see how strong the AI effects of GSE are...

 

[Ziquor]

High dosed DHEA can be murder on the hairline and it has a low ceiling effect converting to test so higher doses mean obsurd sides and no more test production. But hey if someone else is doin it & loggin I'm all for it as long as it isn't me.

 

[Necroticism]

i must say i am intrigued. i wanna see how this turns out.

 

[mattikus]

Alright . If you are gonna do it then you should definitely log it. For yourself, for others, and if anything goes haywire we can help ya figure it all out.

 

[haroldjg]

yah, I am not going to be retarded about the experiment. Obviousely, I am going to start around 500mg's per day and ramp up to see where the sweet spot is.... assuming there is one. As for the hairline, I am not prone to mpb at all. I have never once lost any hair while on any cycle ever. I am just not prone to it. welll maybe a minimal ammount, but nothing that I was ever able to notice.

 

[haroldjg]

As for atd downregulating androgen receptors.... I have never read a study that indicated that. I mean, if that was the case, then a lot of people would have had some really horrible results with the old NHA stack by DS. Which is not the case. Most experiences that I have read about with atd have been quite positive, besides the whole libido thing. Which is a big deal for most, but I dont really care at all about.

 

[EasyEJL]

i'd be cautious over 1000mg. Not like everything he says is 100% gospel but Patrick Arnold attributed his gyno to DHEA experimentation in the 1500mg+ range. I don't think he was using an AI with it at the time tho.

 

[JaredGalloway]

As for atd downregulating androgen receptors.... I have never read a study that indicated that. I mean, if that was the case, then a lot of people would have had some really horrible results with the old NHA stack by DS. Which is not the case. Most experiences that I have read about with atd have been quite positive, besides the whole libido thing. Which is a big deal for most, but I dont really care at all about.

yeah, i didnt think so either...but someone on AM said this...just letting u know what i heard...ive always personally liked ATD...i did a 8 week cycle of 200mgs perday and i never loss any libido except for maybe the last 2 weeks...u could just pick up some 7-OH-DHEA and run that at a large dose...ive only gone up too 600mgs of this though...but definitely log it...:drunk:

 

[Force of Green]

Formestane and 6 bromo are both the sh!t! Love em both!

1/2 agree with you my home slice. Formestane and 6-OXO are the $#!+, but bromo just isn't my cup of tea. I NEVER experienced good recovery from bromo.

I'd go with what TripDog said and use 6-OXO... even at higher doses, it still improves my libido while controlling estrogen.

 

[casey2]

As for atd downregulating androgen receptors.... I have never read a study that indicated that. I mean, if that was the case, then a lot of people would have had some really horrible results with the old NHA stack by DS. Which is not the case. Most experiences that I have read about with atd have been quite positive, besides the whole libido thing. Which is a big deal for most, but I dont really care at all about.

yeah it actually has been discussed quite a bit. apparently that could be the cause for libido loss. it is very dose dependent and was studied in rats but at EXTREMELY high doses. but it apparently binds to and down-regulates the andro receptors in certain parts of the brain.

Dr. d actually discussed it in one forum. if yall would like i could try to look it up n see if ive got it saved somewhere

 

[JaredGalloway]

COME ON HaroldJG!!!! lets get this show on the road already...im very anxious to see wahts gonna happen to u

 

[haroldjg]

yeah it actually has been discussed quite a bit. apparently that could be the cause for libido loss. it is very dose dependent and was studied in rats but at EXTREMELY high doses. but it apparently binds to and down-regulates the andro receptors in certain parts of the brain.

Dr. d actually discussed it in one forum. if yall would like i could try to look it up n see if ive got it saved somewhere

Now I may be wrong, but I think you are confused. I have heard numerous people talk about the Sarmetic effects of ATD, but that is completely different then downregulation. Does Nolva downregulate estrogen receptors? the answere is obvisousely no!!!! It is simply a weak estrogen that binds to it without exerting a strong effect..... that is in certain tissue.... ie breast. And there are studies out there which support the idea of its sarm characteristics, but I have not personally read any the show downregulation of the androgen receptor. In fact, I know that may people dont even believe that the androgen receptor downregulates at all. And if downregulation were the case, then libido would not come back for a very long time, and your test levels would also remain extremely ellevated. Which from the studies, we know that test levels dropped after use was discontinued. And everyones libido seems to have recovered from the rampant ATD use a few years ago. I dont mean to sound like a **** at all. I am just backing up what I said earlier.

 

[haroldjg]

The log should begin in a couple of weeks. I am just really busy right now and I am still waiting for my order to be processed.... obviousely not from NP. They just dont have any bulk DHEA, so I had to order from somewhere else.

 

[JaredGalloway]

sounds good...keep everyone posted!!!:thumbsup:

 

[ezza]

hey man i definately reckon get amongst it... i had a good experience about a year ago dosing up to around 1500mg dhea +30mg atd +1500mg 6 oxo .... (500mg caps are great ) this was my first experience and it went faily well weight went up moderately(7-8lbs) over 8 weeks but i mostly noticed body fat dropping and increased muscle density.... also had positive feedback regarding libido... I did recieve bad sides(worse than 5 weeks on phera/super/finigenix) but i put this down to bad lifestyle choices at the time....

 

[haroldjg]

thanks for the response ezza.

 

[JaredGalloway]

if someone used DHEA and 6-bromo...how many milligrams of 6bromo would u need to stop dhea to converting to estrogens...because i might get some hyperdrol and put some dhea with it

 

[ezza]

I might be wrong but 6-bromo isn't a true aromatase inhibitor... if you haven't already bought it don't...

 

[king1033]

subbed

 

[bound]

subbed

 

[haroldjg]

OK, so I have all of my supplies in check. The log should begin some time next week. This week I am pretty busy getting ready for my move to Florida, but I should be getting settled in by some time next week. Once I have the time to dedicate to this log, it will begin. ETA hopefully less than 7 days. I will post a link to the log once I start.

 

[mattikus]

Lookin' forward to it bud. I miss Florida.. Happy moving.

 

[EasyEJL]

where in FL you moving to?

 

[haroldjg]

Miami, I am pretty excited to say the least.

 

[EasyEJL]

miami is kinda cool to visit

 

[haroldjg]

hahaha... easy, you really dont sound like you enjoy miami that much??? well, for someone who has spent most of their life in the blistering cold of Canada, Miami is pretty dang appealing. lol.

 

[EasyEJL]

its just a messy sort of city. too dense a population, too much crime. I tend to like smaller cities better

 

[haroldjg]

yah, I hear that. I have lived in really large cities for a long time and smaller is deffinately better. I would have deffinately opted for somewhere smaller, but you have to go where the work is..... sooooo, miami is deffinately better than somewhere cold. I hate the cold.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, no arguing that

 

[thundergod]

I'm glad you've decided to log this thing man. In all of my PCT's, I use 200 mg. of DHEA per day along with 60 mg. of transdermal formestane for the first week. Then I use 150 DHEA+80 mg. TD Form. Then the third and final week I'll use 100 mg. of DHEA+100 mg. of TD Form. I know they go great together. I am very interested in seeing your results of 500 mg. of DHEA and 100 mg. of ATD. I think you may be able to ramp up the DHEA to at least 1,000 mg. per day. I think it will be effective for your recomp. I've seen older threads on other forums like this, but not many. Good luck and I'm subbed all the way! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[haroldjg]

Sorry for the delay, here is the log. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/94708-dhea-atd-log.html#post1362038