- 02-12-2008, 12:08 AM
ok, so im testing the new fat burner from DS. i will keep an updated log here, and provide my feedback. depending on the dosage i use, i will be testing this out for about a month give or take a few days.
all stats will be posted later today, as well as a first day review.
oh, and please keep questions related to the product itself, thanks.
- 02-12-2008, 12:09 AM
"Next Generation?" No thanks. With Adrenalean, Designer Supplements goes one step further and introduces the future of stimulating fatburners and carves its own niche in the weight loss industry both for competitive athletes, as well as the average individual aiming to shed some pounds. Adrenalean truly is the very best fat burning product designed to date as it is not simply a collection of stimulating compound aimed to make you 'feel' like you're losing weight, it actually helps you lose weight! Each individual component of the product has been carefully researched for effectiveness and the suitable dose, and has been combined with synergistic compounds that make Adrenalean unbeatable. Beginning with the Euphroamine formula, Designer Supplements introduces another potent fatloss ingredient to the industry in Arecoline. We then compliment this amazing ingredient with PEA and hordenine for enhanced mood and increased energy expenditure, quercetin to prolong the fat burning effect, and L-Huperzine A for its cholinergic focusing effects. The EvoSyn blend combines the tried and true caffeine with evodiamine, which naturally increases thermogenesis, and synephrine, which potently controls appetite.
Arecoline is found naturally in the Areca catechu plant and is chewed socially in many regions of Asia for its stimulating effect. This stimulating effect results in a significant dampening of appetite in man, as well as a swift increase in energy expenditure (1). While exercise clearly helps, the increased energy expenditure associated with arecoline occurs even in the resting state! Simply put, controlled appetite and more calories being burned for fuel even at rest can potentially lead to enhanced weightloss without increased activity...now imagine the effect when combined with a rigorous workout!
Arecoline exerts its effects through the muscarinic receptor system. Like the nicotinic receptor, the muscarinic receptor is a subtype of acetylcholine (Ach) receptor which is activated by the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine (Ach.) Found throughout the body, Ach is crucial for autonomic activation of the central nervous system and by binding to the muscarinic receptor, arecoline increases cholinergic activity (more acetylcholine) (2). The effects of this enhanced activity are vast and include improved muscle contractions, enhanced cognitive ability, and elevated epinephrine and norepinephrine release. It is the latter that manifests as stimulation in those that take arecoline.
In addition to the above benefits, recent research into arecoline has found an intriguing effect on the pineal gland; the gland which produces melatonin. While the pineal gland is large during childhood and releases abundant melatonin, which is thought to inhibit sexual development of children, the gland shrinks at puberty to allow proper sexual development. Arecoline has the effect of inhibiting the pineal gland, thereby stimulating testicular function by releasing the restraints of melatonin (3) and subsequently increasing testosterone levels (4). This is obviously a welcome effect for those aiming to retain muscle during dieting.
As is evident from the statements above, Arecoline alone is clearly an excellent tool for fat loss as it speeds up your metabolism, blunts your appetite and helps enhance your training, but why stop there? Arecoline is merely the first constituent in a truly synergistic blend of ingredients.
Phenylethylamine (PEA) is a naturally occurring neuroamine found in foods such as chocolate and has very recently gathered great popularity in the bodybuilding community for stimulation and fat loss. Designer Supplements was the very first company to release PEA in a fat burning product with the product BASIC CUTS.
Due to increased urinary concentrations of phenylacetic acid - a major metabolite of PEA (5) - after exercise, it has been theorized that PEA may be partly responsible for the 'runners high', or post-lifting elation experienced by most weightlifters or exercise enthusiasts (6). PEA appears to exert a stimulatory effect in the brain through its effect on the beta-adrenergic and dopamine receptors, similar to antidepressants (7). Through these mechanisms, PEA not only increases attention and activity but can also elevate mood significantly (8). As anyone can see, these effects can certainly lead to increased focus and motivation both in the gym and in daily activities.
The major stumbling block for PEA is that oral bioavailability is pitifully low. This is because PEA is quickly metabolised by the enzyme Monoamine Oxidase B (MAO-B), so that very little, if any, makes it to the brain. It has been suggested that one may get around this by taking the amino acid phenylalanine (a PEA precursor), however this does not guarantee significant concentrations of PEA will be synthesised, let alone make it to the brain. To every problem lies a solution, however, and this leads to the introduction of another ingredient for Adrenalean? - Hordenine.
The Monoamine Oxidases, MAO-A and MAO-B, are two enzymes principally involved in catalyzing the oxidation (metabolism) of the monoamines. MAO-A is commonly thought to break down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine while MAO-B generally catalyzes the break down of dopamine and PEA (as stated above). Hordenine is included in Adrenalean due to its ability to inhibit MAO-B (9) and thereby make PEA orally bioavailable thus allowing all the intriguing effects of stimulation and mood enhancement mentioned above to become a reality. As a consequence of hordenine's MAO-B inhibition, dopamine activity is also prolonged. During dieting, dopamine is of particular importance because it is generally theorized to be the body's means of communication between the brain and the anti-starvation hormone Leptin. Additionally, dopamine is also associated with nutrient partitioning (where the calories you consume go), mood, appetite and a whole host of other biochemical functions. Unfortunately, when you diet, dopamine also happens to decrease quite significantly (10), thus some means of ensuring adequate dopamine output should be paramount (hint: hordenine helps).
As if its efficacy in increasing PEA availability and dopaminergic tone weren?t enough, there is also credible evidence that hordenine not only 'liberates' norepinephrine (11), but also inhibits its metabolism (12), leading to increased stimulation. As many know, norepinephrine and epinephrine collectively form the catecholamines the means through which the popular supplement ephedrine indirectly exerts its stimulatory effect on the central nervous system and improves lipolysis (fat burning).
L-Huperzine A is a naturally occurring alkaloid found in the extracts of the Chinese herb Huperzia serrata. While it has been used for centuries in ancient Chinese medicine, it has recently came into view to the Western World for its neuroprotective effects. L-Huperzine A works by inhibiting the enzyme acetylcholinesterase (13, 14) which breaks down acetylcholine, thereby halting signal transmission. By preventing this enzyme from working, the life cycle of acetylcholine is increased, resulting in improved cognitive effects, increase muscular control and enhanced focus. Recent research has demonstrated the alkaloid to enhance memory, reduce oxidative stress and promote neural protection (15) without any negative implications or side effects (14). Due to its mechanism of action, L-Huperzine A is known as a 'nootropic', or 'smart drug' and works synergistically with Arecoline to potentiate Adrenalean's neurocognitive effect.
Quercetin is the last component of the Euphroamine blend. Quercetin is a type of flavonoid called a flavonol. Flavonoids are also called phytochemicals, and are found in all vascular plants including all the common fruits and vegetables. Quercetin serves as the backbone for most other flavonoids and tends to be the phytochemical most studied in research due to its health benefits. In fact, it is generally stated that a lot of the health benefits found in fruits and vegetables are due to their quercetin content.
Quercetin is included in Adrenalean because of its effects regarding the Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) system. CYP450 is a family of enzymes located mostly in the liver. These are drug, steroid and toxin-metabolizing enzymes that are also used to make cholesterol, steroids and other important lipids. The toxins they breakdown may be waste from metabolic processes within the body, or substances consumed by the person such as antibiotics, recreational drugs or even toxins in the air or the food we eat.
Quercetin inhibits several enzymes of the CYP450 system (16, 17, 18, 19) and also MAO-A (20) thereby prolonging the effect hepatically metabolized compounds in the body. This inhibition results in the effects of Arecoline, PEA, hordenine, caffeine, evodiamine and synephrine exerting their fat burning effects for longer periods of time. In addition to CYP450 inhibition, quercetin also inhibits p-glycoprotein (PGP) (21, 22), a protein located generally in the gut, dealing with absorption and are thus considered part of the "first-pass effect". Although not as significant as inhibition of CYP450, inhibiting PGP also helps improve oral bioavailability of the compounds in Adrenalean?, as well as prolonging their life and effectiveness.
Quercetin has also been demonstrated to inhibit an enzyme known as Catechol-O-methyl transferase (COMT) (20, 23). COMT is involved in the deactivation of the neurotransmitters epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine. By enhancing the signalling of these hormones, lipolysis is maintained, and the brain continues to get the dopamine it needs to continue allowing body fat to be oxidized.
EvoSyn? is a precise blend of caffeine, evodiamine and synephrine. This triad not only works synergistically together, but also beautifully compliments the ArecoLean? blend.
Caffeine is one of the world?s most popular drugs. Caffeine acts in the brain by antagonising (blocking) adenosine A1 and A2A receptors (24, 25), thereby inhibiting the breakdown of Cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate (cAMP). Adenosine typically slows nerve cell activity, initiating a relaxed type of environment similar to the state experienced during sleep. By antagonising adenosine, this effect is in fact reversed and nerve cell activity is increased. This causes catecholamine release and central nervous stimulation that makes caffeine such a Godsend for those who find mornings difficult. Adenosine also inhibits dopamine release, thus inhibiting adenosine can help maintain dopamine signalling, which as explained earlier, is of the utmost importance.
While most users will testify that caffeine alone is a sound appetite suppressant, it appears that it has significant effects in potentiating the effect of other stimulants (26, 27). This stimulation can also aid performance by delaying fatigue and allowing one to maintain training intensity for a complete session (28). It can also assist strength training (29) and help improve endurance, making it a valuable compound to utilize for cardiovascular training which can further assist any fat loss endeavour (30).
Evodiamine is an alkaloid found in the Evodiae Fructus plant, and has been used for centuries in ancient Chinese medicine. Evodiamine exerts its fat loss effects in a similar manner to capsaicin, via agonizing the vanilloid receptor TRPV1, but does so without the risk of indigestion (31, 32.). TRPV1 is a receptor typically activated by heat or acidic conditions and is involved in pain regulation. Through activation of this receptor, Evodiamine simultaneously ramps up heat production, thereby promoting fat burning while also increasing heat loss via vasodilation.
As an added benefit, evodiamine has been shown to enhance the secretion of stimulatory neurotransmitters when induced by acetylcholine (33). This means that evodiamine works as another part of the synergistic formula with L-Huperzine-A and Arecoline to promote cAMP signalling in concert with caffeine.
The final ingredient in Adrenalean, Synephrine, is included as an added benefit for those with a big appetite. Synephrine is found naturally in the citrus tree Citrus Aurantium and when ingested acts an agonist of the alpha-1 adrenergic receptor (34, 35). While the rest of the Adrenalean formula will blunt hunger in most individuals, this activation of the alpha-1 receptor further suppresses the drive to eat in even the worst dieter (36). All variables considered, controlling food intake on your diet while using Adrenalean? should not be a problem.
Many high calorie foods tastes good and eating is associated with a myriad of pleasurable physiological effects...face it, dieting is never ?fun!? Then again, being fat, tired, and out of shape isn?t much fun either. Adrenalean is a highly effective stimulating fat burner that provides a smooth pharmaceutical grade energy that will last all day long. There?s no crash, no tremors, no shaking and NO APPETITE!
Using a complex formula of innovative ingredients, Adrenalean mimics the powerful effects of adrenaline and noradrenaline which destroy fat at an alarming rate and by boosting ?feel good? chemicals in the brain, you?ll be sure to love every minute of it! Whether you want a daily fat burner to be used during your diet, a staple pre-workout stimulant to aid performance or something to enhance focus and get you through your school or work day, Adrenalean is your only choice.
- 02-12-2008, 12:10 AM
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4. Saha I, Chatterji U, Chaudhuri-Sengupta S, Nag TC, Nag D, Banerjee S, Maiti BR. Ultrastructural and hormonal changes in the pineal-testicular axis following arecoline administration in rats. J Exp Zool Part A Ecol Genet Physiol. 2007 Apr 1;307(4):187-98.
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9. Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD. Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1989 Jun;41(6):421-3.
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11. Hapke HJ, Strathmann W. [Pharmacological effects of hordenine] Dtsch Tierarztl Wochenschr. 1995 Jun;102(6):228-32.
12. Frank M, Weckman TJ, Wood T, Woods WE, Tai CL, Chang SL, Ewing A, Blake JW, Tobin T. Hordenine: pharmacology, pharmacokinetics and behavioural effects in the horse. Equine Vet J. 1990 Nov;22(6):437-41.
13. Cheng DH, Ren H, Tang XC. Huperzine A, a novel promising acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. Neuroreport. 1996 Dec 20;8(1):97-101.
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15. Zhang HY, Tang XC. Neuroprotective effects of huperzine A: new therapeutic targets for neurodegenerative disease. Trends Pharmacol Sci. 2006 Dec;27(12):619-25.
16. von Moltke LL, Weemhoff JL, Bedir E, Khan IA, Harmatz JS, Goldman P, Greenblatt DJ. Inhibition of human cytochromes P450 by components of Ginkgo biloba. J Pharm Pharmacol. 2004 Aug;56(8):1039-44.
17. Kim KA, Chung J, Jung DH, Park JY. Identification of cytochrome P450 isoforms involved in the metabolism of loperamide in human liver microsomes. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 2004 Oct;60(8):575-81. Epub 2004 Sep 8.
18. Patel J, Buddha B, Dey S, Pal D, Mitra AK. In vitro interaction of the HIV protease inhibitor ritonavir with herbal constituents: changes in P-gp and CYP3A4 activity. Am J Ther. 2004 Jul-Aug;11(4):262-77.
19. Kang IH, Kim HJ, Oh H, Park YI, Dong MS. Biphasic effects of the flavonoids quercetin and naringenin on the metabolic activation of 2-amino-3,5-dimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline by Salmonella typhimurium TA1538 co-expressing human cytochrome P450 1A2, NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase, and cytochrome b5. Mutat Res. 2004 Jan 12;545(1-2):37-47.
20. Singh A, Naidu PS, Kulkarni SK. Quercetin potentiates L-Dopa reversal of drug-induced catalepsy in rats: possible COMT/MAO inhibition. Pharmacology. 2003 Jun;68(2):81-8.
21. Limtrakul P, Khantamat O, Pintha K. Inhibition of P-glycoprotein function and expression by kaempferol and quercetin. J Chemother. 2005 Feb;17(1):86-95.
22. Yang ZG, Meng H, Zhang X, Li XD, Lv WL, Zhang Q. [Effect of quercetin on the acyclovir intestinal absorption]. Beijing Da Xue Xue Bao. 2004 Jun 18;36(3):309-12.
23. Nagai M, Conney AH, Zhu BT. Strong inhibitory effects of common tea catechins and bioflavonoids on the O-methylation of catechol estrogens catalyzed by human liver cytosolic catechol-O-methyltransferase. Drug Metab Dispos. 2004 May;32(5):497-504.
24. Justinova Z, Ferre S, Segal PN, Antoniou K, Solinas M, Pappas LA, Highkin JL, Hockemeyer J, Munzar P, Goldberg SR. Involvement of adenosine A1 and A2A receptors in the adenosinergic modulation of the discriminative-stimulus effects of cocaine and methamphetamine in rats. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2003 Dec;307(3):977-86.
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02-12-2008, 12:11 AM
nni from DS will be helping me with dosage. starting at just 2 caps a day
took the first dose at 6:45 am when i got up. normally it takes me a little while to get rollin' but within about 10 mins i was wide awake. i wasnt stimmed up or anything, but something was definately different.
around 12 noon i had an energy drink.. the energy drink had about 100mg of caffeine in it. lets just say that wasnt the best idea... i was feeling fine until i drank the drink, then i got kinda jittery/hot. that lasted for about an hour and a half..
took the 2nd cap at around 2:30pm. was still pretty warm, but i dont know if that was because the building or if it was from the adrenalean. its now 9:00pm and i feel pretty good. im kinda tired, slight headache.. but thats nothing out of the normal for me.
diet will be the same as its always been.. beef and rice, along with oats and protein. started a new job, so i will be hitting the gym in the afternoon instead of the morning.
stats to start:
waist: 34 1/4"
hips: 39 1/4"
weight:? (will get tomorrow at the gym)
02-12-2008, 02:00 AM
02-12-2008, 04:38 AM
02-13-2008, 01:38 AM
thanks guys, any questions or more detailed information, please shoot away!
i would like to note that i also slept great last night, no crazy dreams and wasnt hard to sleep at all.
ok day 2 and still at the same dose.. one at around 6:45 am and 2nd around 2:30 pm
this stuff is really amazing, i wake up, take it and im totally awake and aware within 10-15 minutes. its really nice because its like having a constant moment of clarity.
again this afternoon, around 12 i was warmer than normal. i just feel warm/hot. i dont sweat at all, but it is a little uncomfortable since i have a tie choking me all day. went to the gym as well, and i can already see this as being the best thing about this stuff.. i was totally focused and clear. wasnt distracted, i just felt like i was on a mission. i havent felt like that in the gym in a long time.
i work on the phone for a living, and i talk to ****ers all day long. sometimes it can take a while for me to 'reset' and be able to talk to the next client in a professional manner if i had a bad call right before. since my mood has improved, it makes it a lot easier to 'reset' and get right back on the phone. so this should help me make more money haha
diet is still on track, im always hungry still, and find myself craving junk.. but i might need to up the dose in a day or 2 to see if that helps.
02-13-2008, 06:06 PM
02-13-2008, 09:24 PM
Great update. Sounds like you are experiencing everything we intended the product to do.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Pursuing DPT Degree
02-14-2008, 12:01 AM
02-14-2008, 02:16 PM
thanks guys. i upped the dose today, so we'll see if that affects my apetite, im always hungry haha
sorry, i wasnt able to update yesterday. we had a huge snow storm, and i got stuck at work.. all the roads were closed into slc going north bound, and me and a bunch of other people had to sleep at the office.. ****ing ****ty hard floors and 4 hrs of sleep.
not much to report.. i still get warm several hours after i take the adrenalean, and my apetite is still there. one thing i have noticed, is its harder to take a ****.. i think im experiencing slight constipation? im not sure. maybe i need to drink more water.
also if you drink coffee or energy drinks, you might want to be careful.. as stated earlier by nni the adrenalean seems to amplify the effects a LOT. like if i drink a redbull or anything mid afternoon, im totally amped. i dont have the stimmed out feeling on the adrenalean, but im awake, and alert.
mood is really good still, im happy.. and its near impossible to feel down or in a bad mood. most people that have read my journal know i get depressed pretty often, but thats not hapening at all.
i dont think i posted this, but my weight the other day was 189lbs. like i said, i upped dosage today to 2 caps in the morning, and will take 2 more in a few hours. i feel warm right now, which is earlier than the last few days.
02-14-2008, 02:18 PM
i think its important also that i say im a sceptical bastard.. i like to read a lot of studies, and feedback before i buy a supplement. i think a lot of the **** people post is 'fluff' if you will. but honestly this is doing everything that its supposed to other than app supression, but i havent been taking a high dose yet either.
02-16-2008, 03:45 PM
today im on the same dosage, im getting warm a little earlier now, around 10 am or so. so it seems like its still taking 3 hours or so to kick in.
appatite(however the **** you spell it) is still the same. im hungry a lot of the time, but i did have some cheat meals yesterday.
mood is still really good. yesterday got a little depressed, but its because of my damn car. never buy a ****in audi s4. its a fun car, but over the last 2 years i have spent OVER 10k in maintenance! wtf!
anyway.. im off to the gym in a few, right after, i will take my next 2 caps.
02-16-2008, 03:55 PM
02-16-2008, 04:18 PM
02-16-2008, 07:33 PM
thanks john, i will.
nope, havent tried 3 caps yet. i will prob up the dose on monday, i will keep ya informed
02-18-2008, 02:37 PM
ok, took 3 this morning. i feel really good, mood is still good. i would like to note that even dose has gone up, mood hasnt gotten better and better. but at 1 cap a day i was feeling really happy.. so thats good.
its 11:30 am, took the caps at around 6:45am. i dont feel warmer than normal still.. but if history tells us anything about 1pm i will be getting really warm again, and stay that way for the rest of the day.
still very alert, im not overly amped or anything, and thats nice.
now for apetite.. its still there, but not nearly what it is normally. normally im starving by 9:30-10 am. today i was wondering what i was gonna have for dinner, looked at the clock and it was 10:30! so i nearly forgot to eat. i was able to eat my meal with ease, but im definately noticing some effects of the apetite supression.
so for myself, it looks like 3 is the magical number, i will be taking the 2nd dose in a few hours, and will update tonight or tomorrow.
i will take measurements and weight tomorrow, since its been a week.
02-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Good luck, I'm shopping around for a good supp to help during my next cut phase, so "I'm watching you"
NSCA - CSCS
02-18-2008, 03:55 PM
Sub'd. Right now I'm getting my cutting diet in check.. after I see what works I might add something like this in.
02-18-2008, 04:11 PM
Glad to hear that three had you feeling good. Also nice note about the appetite effects. I find they start to kick in around 3 caps.
Looking forward to weight/measurements.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Pursuing DPT Degree
02-18-2008, 04:23 PM
02-18-2008, 04:32 PM
02-20-2008, 10:45 AM
thanks for following along guys.
haiz, im noticing that the 'euphoric' feeling isnt as strong as when i first started.. is this common? have you used this?
naval: 35 1/2"
waits: 33 1/2"
hips: 38 1/4"
this is with no change in diet.. infact, i have been eating a little more
i've noticed that my energy seems to have gone down a bit after going to 3 caps.. maybe i am just getting used to them? i will try some caffeine today to see if there is still a synergistic effect.
mood is still good.. not as noticable as when i first started, but again maybe i am just getting used to the adrenalean.
i am warmer now though.. pretty much all the time, so thats changed.
apetite is still there, but its not like i have cravings anymore. sometimes i do, but its rare compared to before.
02-20-2008, 07:16 PM
so i think i will split the dose up some more.. since i seem to be getting tired. i will attribute this to work, see below.
so here is the plan
2 @ 645am
2 @ 11am
2 @ 3pm
i might just order another bottle in a week or 2 and continue with the log as well. i will note any effects, if there are any on my ability to sleep tomorrow
and to note, i drank a redbull around noon today, and that definately gave me a jump, the synergistic(sp?) effects are definately there. i feel awake and aware.. but im tired. i think its just from working so much though.. yesterday i pulled 14hrs, and im almost at 35 for the week
02-20-2008, 08:54 PM
02-22-2008, 01:04 AM
1.) As far as the euphoric feeling goes, I find that for me it is pretty good most of the time. However, depending on how much I slept the night before and if I ate a big meal before taking Adrenalean, I notice a sharp reduction in euphoria.
2.) Energy wise, it takes me a while to get used to adrenalean. I might try a small dose of caffeine along with it to prolong the effects (maybe some coffee/tea).
3.) Your measurements look SICK! Nice work.
4.) I've also noticed the synergistic effects. Definitely VERY strong with other caffeinated stuff.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Pursuing DPT Degree
02-22-2008, 10:43 AM
also i am taking it 3x a day now 2x2x2.
took the first 2 at 6:45, and just took the 2nd 2(1200). i will be going to the gym here in a little bit. i definately feel better so far than when i was on 3. body tempature is up, energy levels are good, mood is ok. just took the last dose, its 435pm here right now. i will update later tonight or tomorrow how im feeling and also if it effects sleep
sleep wasnt affected in any way. i was awake until 12 or so, went in laid down, and crashed out. so i think i will try the 3x a day for a little while.
02-26-2008, 12:32 PM
ok, havent had much to update.. also my computer at home died on me for some reason
body temp still is up, im always warm, and my mood is good. i feel better with the 2x2x2 dosing rather than the 3x3. and i am going back and forth, some days i will do the 2x2x2, some days the 3x3.
energy levels seem to be good as well, i am drinking a small amount of caffeine during the day if i feel like i am getting tired, that way it re-ups the effects of the adrenalean.
one thing is the appetite supression.. it doesnt seem to be happening for me. im always freaking hungry.. and to be honest, i have binged a few times over the last week im sure its been very counter productive, but usually i dont crave food like this. maybe its because my mood is good? i dont know.
02-26-2008, 07:44 PM
Nice update. Good to here about the temp/mood/focus.
I see you are playing with the dosages nicely. I have tried 2X2X2 and think it is great for sustained energy with a coffee or something during the dosings.
The appetite effect seems to work well on some, but not on others. Have you noticed a different on appetite between 3X3 and 2X2X2? I only ask because I notice more appetite decreases on 3-4 pills.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Pursuing DPT Degree
02-27-2008, 04:19 PM
yea now that you mention it, when i take 3x3 i seem to notice the appetite supression more. like today for example, im not that hungry.. but i also didnt work out today either. i just need to control my eating better.
naval: 36 3/4"
waits: 34 1/4"
its my own damn fault.. i was binging, and eating tons of pasta late at night..
this week wont be the same, i wont be eating like a damn pig.
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