Celc5's NutraPlanet Ultimate NHA Stack (plus some leftovers) and HST Training

celc5

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Final Review is Post #2

Log Plan Summary

Days 1-30
4 Caps Activate Extreme
2 Caps "old" Activate
4 Caps Alpha Drive XL
6 pumps Eform/day
4 Caps Lean Extreme
4 Caps RPM Preworkout

Day 31-45
6 Caps Activate Extreme
10 pumps Eform
3 Caps Reduce XT
4 Caps RPM Preworkout

Training

HST as adviced by Sfearl1 and thesinner. Time under tension with progressive load philosophies will be followed. Emphasis was on rehabilitating a mild low back muscle strain while maintaining mass and losing fat.

Diet

-40/40/20 macro ratio
-Approximately 250/250/50

Stats

.............weight.....bf%.......LBM.........fat
Day 1.....199.8.......17.07.....165.86.....34.14
Day 45....197.8.......16.15.....164.48.....33.32

Significant Events

Week 1
Positive: Enhanced Libido
Negative: Nose Bleeds

Week 2
+: Extended Pumps, mild hardening, mild leaning appearance
-: Mild facial acne, mild bacne

Week 3
Positive and negatives same as week 2 but more pronounced

Week 4
+: added 1/4 inch to arms, increased vascularity, continued previous positive aspects
-: drop in libido

Week 5
+: subjective positives continue
-: unpredicatable libido, recomp effect plateaus

Week 6
+: subjective positives continue, increased hardness overall, libido returns
-: body comp plateau
 
celc5

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Supplement Reviews

Alpha Drive XL
This is my second negative experience with ADED products. I do not believe this has any positive effects and it may be associated with negative effect on libido.

Activate Extreme
May have contributed to pumps, hardness, and vascularity. I believe this to be a mediocre supplement at best

Lean Extreme and Reduce XT
I believe that both were equally effective in fending off a bit of body fat. I would like to try one of these 7oxo products again in the future.

Eform
Anyone who knows me knows that I like this supplement.

RPM
This is an excellent BEGINNER stim. I seem to be hit or miss with stims and preworkout mixes, so this was a pleasant surprise. Those more experienced with stims might not get an aggressive kick that they are looking for. I personally thought that RPM effective. I give it a thumbsup.

HST Training Review

The goal of continued weight training without aggravating a mild back injury was very successful. The planned progressive load theory ensured back safety and a psychologically successful workout every time.

Full body routines are mentally challenging, especially if you are accustomed to long rest periods between sets. The repetition of the same routine got boring during the 5's week. The pump and hardness rewards during 15s and 10s was more than worth it.

If I ran HST a second time, I would make 2 changes:

1) I would strictly run 3 full body routines. I would NOT split into push/pull or upper/lower at any time.

2) I would run 16s, 12s, and 8s. 4 weeks of 5s was unproductive IMO. Also, when the weights get heavy in the 5's, it requires more warm up sets for compound moves. You can't just throw 300 or 350 pounds on your back for squats without several warm up sets. This is innefficient time management in a routine which demands efficiency for success.

"Final Review"

If I ran this stack a second time, I would drop the Alpha Drive XL and Activate Extreme. I would run either Lean Extreme or Reduce XT at 3 caps per day with 200mg/day TD formestane. I believe RPM has it's place and was effective for me personally.

I believe some of the body comp plateau came after the transition from 10's to 5's (repetition range) during the HST routine. This may have skewed what could have been more positive gains during the final 3-4 weeks of this stack.

Although my objective body comp results are less than spectacular, I believe I look much leaner than the skinfolds indicate. I've also gotten many compliments, especially on my arms since running this stack. This hasn't happened since I ran my halo cycle in august.

My plan is to preload and then run AX Pheraplex in January. I'll use my own high volume split during the preload and cycle. I will run HST for post cycle with 16/12/8 microcycles as mentioned above.
 
Travis

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Are you doing the full body training each session or splitting upper/lower? Time off with HST is called deconditioning....its my favorite part of HST, lol.
 
UNCfan1

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Subbed, I plan on getting this stack when my money permits.
 
celc5

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Day 5

Tuesday, November 13

Postive:
I'm noticing some hardening up overall. Pumps in the gym are lasting several hours after workouts. I credit the pumps to the supplements and the frequency of the full body workouts.

Negative:
So far ADED is 2 for 2 in giving me spontaneous nose bleeds. I had nose bleeds last summer on Jungle Warfare and again with Alpha Drive XL. I've tried all the other supplements in my stack and they are not the culprit. I'll ride this out because I don't see it as that big of a deal.
 
celc5

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Travis, I'm doing the full body workouts 2 times per week with a random day on Saturdays with a training partner. This full body routine is a welcome change because I don't think I've EVER used full body routines before. Very unimpressive lineup in my split:

Squat
SLDL
BB Row
Pullups
Flat Bench
Lateral Raise
BB Shrugs
BB Curl
Nose Breakers
Calves, abs, random delts etc etc when time permits.
... I can hear the yawns from here :lol:

UNC, by the time I'm done with this stack, you'll know for sure if it prodcues results. I'm looking for a recomp effect.
 
thesinner

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Nice. HST is a great routine. If I didn't hate it so much, I'd definitely do it more frequently. (When saying I hate it, I mean the monotony and 3x per week was too much on my lower body with cardio on off days).

You are definitely going to get some great results. HST is VERY effective.
 
celc5

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Matt, thanks for joining the fun.

Thesinner, you KNEW I was gonna try it eventually. Rep schemes are closer to 15's and 12's at this point. The heavy stuff is gonna come gradually due cautiously protecting the muscle strain.
 
Travis

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Its easy to overtrain with imo....sorta what sinner alluded too. I did love it on a cut..which was odd since its a mass building routine.
 
thesinner

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Matt, thanks for joining the fun.

Thesinner, you KNEW I was gonna try it eventually. Rep schemes are closer to 15's and 12's at this point. The heavy stuff is gonna come gradually due cautiously protecting the muscle strain.
The higher reps phase is important. It teaches your body to better handle lactic acid as well as "re-wires" you, which will drive into a greater hypertrophic response as you while you're progressive loading at the higher weights (lower reps).

This is an important aspect of HST, which (although I've 'tweaked' it a lil') I still use in my routine.
 
thebigt

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the leanextreme proved to be better than i expected, anything over two caps a day and my joints were crying. i ran the activate extreme at 6 caps a day and had decent recomp effect, but damn i went through that bottle fast. good luck celc, tough break with the back. btw i liked the extreme better than mass fx, just my opinion.
 
celc5

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I'll keep that in mind with the Lean Extreme. If any joint issue pop up, I'll consider lowering the dosage for sure. Thanks for the advice.

I thought the divanil only version of Activate was more effective than Mfx so I expect the ActEx to be at least as effective. I like it so far.

The party starts when BigT is in the house
:dance: :dance: :djparty: :dance: :dance:
 
Travis

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I'll keep that in mind with the Lean Extreme. If any joint issue pop up, I'll consider lowering the dosage for sure. Thanks for the advice.

I thought the divanil only version of Activate was more effective than Mfx so I expect the ActEx to be at least as effective. I like it so far.

The party starts when BigT is in the house
:dance: :dance: :djparty: :dance: :dance:
I've used LX 2.0 up to 5 caps a day. Didnt notice any dry joints so seems really user dependent. I thought D recommended double dosing it....cant recall exactly though.
 

nelix

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I've used LX 2.0 up to 5 caps a day. Didnt notice any dry joints so seems really user dependent. I thought D recommended double dosing it....cant recall exactly though.
I do morning, 4 hours later, pre workout, before bed, and I also have no joint issues.

I never dose 2 at a time though...
 
thebigt

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I do morning, 4 hours later, pre workout, before bed, and I also have no joint issues.

I never dose 2 at a time though...
i dont consider it a bad thing, at 2 caps ed it lasts alot longer. most stuff i have to double dose, so lean extreme gets a thumbs up.
 
celc5

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Thanks for the feedback fellas :cheers:

Travis, I've heard similar suggestions but moreso in terms of Retain2 being significantly underdosed. I can't remember where I read that though.

Nelix, that's pretty close to how I'm dosing the 3 primary supps in the stack. Morning and then every 4 hours.

BigT, I seem to be hit or miss with the joint issues. If you remember, 6oxo WRECKED my joints (otherwise an AWESOME supplement). I don't think any supps have contributed to joint issues since then. Although, I've never steadily dosed 7OH so I'll be careful for sure.
 
matthew76

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Retain is slightly underdosed - I usually buy a bottle of Relora by NOW Foods and take with it. Or just take the Relora, it's cheap and effective.
 
thebigt

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Thanks for the feedback fellas :cheers:

Travis, I've heard similar suggestions but moreso in terms of Retain2 being significantly underdosed. I can't remember where I read that though.

Nelix, that's pretty close to how I'm dosing the 3 primary supps in the stack. Morning and then every 4 hours.

BigT, I seem to be hit or miss with the joint issues. If you remember, 6oxo WRECKED my joints (otherwise an AWESOME supplement). I don't think any supps have contributed to joint issues since then. Although, I've never steadily dosed 7OH so I'll be careful for sure.
i really like the lean extreme, nice firming effect. its nice for me to find a supp thats effective at or below recommended dose. everyones different but it works well for me at a low dose. good luck celc.
 
NasD

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well lookie lookie...subbed, looking for tweaks to my own stack. I substituted Retain2 so that I can save the LX for another PH cycle PCT
 
celc5

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NasD, crazy coincidence that you pm'd me about this stack- Welcome bro :cheers:

Thesinner and Travis, I believe the overtraining issue with HST has to deal with our habits of training to failure. Progressive load negates the need to train to failure all the time. So in the first week of 10's and 5's, you're still making gains along the progressive load theory without burning out your CNS and feeling overtrained.

Day 7

Nice lift today, but split things up to do just push moves as time was limited.

The RPM takes a bit longer to kick in than stims that I am accustomed to. 4 caps takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes to kick in, even on an empty stomach. It gave me good energy today but there is no enhanced mood when compared to my standard for ideal preworkout- TRAC Extreme NO.

IF I worked out in the morning, I'd dose 6 caps RPM preworkout. Problem is, I work out around 5ish and it interfered with sleep 2 nights ago on 5 caps.

Libido is off the charts. I have to admit that I hooked up with an ex last night. I made it clear that no phone calls or "drop ins" are allowed :nono: Anyway, performance, stamina, and size were all enhanced without a doubt. I'll dub this the rockstar stack if it continues in this direction :afro:
 
thebigt

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NasD, crazy coincidence that you pm'd me about this stack- Welcome bro :cheers:

Thesinner and Travis, I believe the overtraining issue with HST has to deal with our habits of training to failure. Progressive load negates the need to train to failure all the time. So in the first week of 10's and 5's, you're still making gains along the progressive load theory without burning out your CNS and feeling overtrained.

Day 7

Nice lift today, but split things up to do just push moves as time was limited.

The RPM takes a bit longer to kick in than stims that I am accustomed to. 4 caps takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes to kick in, even on an empty stomach. It gave me good energy today but there is no enhanced mood when compared to my standard for ideal preworkout- TRAC Extreme NO.

IF I worked out in the morning, I'd dose 6 caps RPM preworkout. Problem is, I work out around 5ish and it interfered with sleep 2 nights ago on 5 caps.

Libido is off the charts. I have to admit that I hooked up with an ex last night. I made it clear that no phone calls or "drop ins" are allowed :nono: Anyway, performance, stamina, and size were all enhanced without a doubt. I'll dub this the rockstar stack if it continues in this direction :afro:
notice how sex with an ex is always better than it was before they were an ex. btw try dumping 2or3 rpm in flavored drink and chugging, tastes like crap but it works much faster.
 
celc5

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notice how sex with an ex is always better than it was before they were an ex. btw try dumping 2or3 rpm in flavored drink and chugging, tastes like crap but it works much faster.
T, you got that right... ex's will do crazy things in crazy places!

Day 8

I'm tweaking my HST a bit here and there. I have to admit, I do find this style of training to be fun. The planning and organization matches my personality quite well. Truth be told, if I would have just looked at it at face value, I would disregard it as BS.

Today was pull day since I split the routine yesterday. Nothing spectacular to note. Although I'm feeling a bit harder and I'm getting the heralded HST muscle twitches in weird places like triceps and calves.

Initial stats updated in post #2.
 
thebigt

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you holding gains youmade on h-drol? you should be getting bulked up, this stack should lean you out some.
 
celc5

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you holding gains youmade on h-drol? you should be getting bulked up, this stack should lean you out some.
I held my H-drol gains for about 6 weeks. After post cycle, I switched to Max OT and broke PR's in just about all of my lifts. However, several factors contributed to poor body comp effects including low volume on MaxOT, creatine/sugar bloat, and the back injury. Yes, this stack is leaning me out rather quickly and I'm looking forward to the Phera run after the New Year.

Day 11

Monday, November 19

Supplements: Pumps in the gym are good, libido and sexual performance are enhanced (bagged a REALLY good one yesterday after the pathetic Steeler game), and the puffy/soft feeling (body comp wise) that I've had is fading steadily.

Edit: I have 4 zits on the face and some mild bacne. I'm skeptical of that there would be any androgenic effect with this stack. Weird thing is, I'm NOT succecptable to breakouts. Maybe 1 zit every 6 months and to have 4 is unhear of.

HST: I'm starting to realize that every workout is planned so that you will have a successful lift. That makes it easy to be psychologically excited for the day's lift. I recommend this routine for those who are in a rut and max power is not concern.

Most joints are holding up nicely except for the hands. The frequency of the "pull" lifts which require grip and the everyday tasks of my job are difficult on the fingers. Not sure if this will become problematic or not at this point.
 
thebigt

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the leaning out is what i liked best about this stack. the libido and mood enhance aint:food: bad either.
 
RisingAgainst

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hell ya brother! Kick some ass mang. :D I like this setup/stack dude.. :thumbsup:
 
thebigt

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hell ya brother! Kick some ass mang. :D I like this setup/stack dude.. :thumbsup:
oh heck, that darned ra is back:lol: .lol,jk. where ya been hiding?:trout:
 
celc5

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oh heck, that darned ra is back:lol: .lol,jk. where ya been hiding?:trout:
He's been stuck under a fat chic :lol:

...although, I'd settle for one of those cause I struck out like 3 times this week. I guess I'm streaky and can't win em all.
 
thebigt

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He's been stuck under a fat chic :lol:

...although, I'd settle for one of those cause I struck out like 3 times this week. I guess I'm streaky and can't win em all.
one out of four, your batting as good as a-rod and that sob gets 32 mill, who said life was fair?:duel:
 
RisingAgainst

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He's been stuck under a fat chic :lol:

...although, I'd settle for one of those cause I struck out like 3 times this week. I guess I'm streaky and can't win em all.
pfft I wish... I'd love to get em a fat chick man, I've been batting 000's buddy.
 
thebigt

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i think celc5 found a couple of fat chicks and is partying his arse off.:lol:
 
RisingAgainst

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i think celc5 found a couple of fat chicks and is partying his arse off.:lol:
must be man.. lol his grubby little ass, I can see it all now... stuck between to big huge butt cheeks holdin on for dear life.. :food:

haha :toofunny:
 
thebigt

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must be man.. lol his grubby little ass, I can see it all now... stuck between to big huge butt cheeks holdin on for dear life.. :food:

haha :toofunny:
bench pressing butt.:lol: :smite:
 
celc5

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Whew, what a workout. All those heffers that I partied with said to say say "HI" to BigT and RA since they're regulars with you fellas :lol:

Day 16

Saturday, November 24, 2007

This stack continues to be worth while. Weight is holding steady but the bodyfat is starting to fade. I haven't gotten the skinfolds done, but if I had to guess, I'd estimate about a 1-2 pound decrease in fatloss with about the same in gained lean mass.

Noticeable changes are that pumps are lasting much longer after workouts. I'm also getting some monster acne on my shoulders. No increased shedding even though I am VERY susceptible to this. I'd be interested to hear if others have androgenic like sides with nha stacks... I'm skeptical but open to ideas.

HST routine is working very nicely, especially psychologically. I really like that the workouts are all pre-planned to be successful lifts.

Off Topic: Had a killer party last night and it made VERY glad that I held off on the cycle. Oh and number 3 on this stack is in the books :head:
 
thebigt

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Whew, what a workout. All those heffers that I partied with said to say say "HI" to BigT and RA since they're regulars with you fellas :lol:

Day 16

Saturday, November 24, 2007

This stack continues to be worth while. Weight is holding steady but the bodyfat is starting to fade. I haven't gotten the skinfolds done, but if I had to guess, I'd estimate about a 1-2 pound decrease in fatloss with about the same in gained lean mass.

Noticeable changes are that pumps are lasting much longer after workouts. I'm also getting some monster acne on my shoulders. No increased shedding even though I am VERY susceptible to this. I'd be interested to hear if others have androgenic like sides with nha stacks... I'm skeptical but open to ideas.

HST routine is working very nicely, especially psychologically. I really like that the workouts are all pre-planned to be successful lifts.

Off Topic: Had a killer party last night and it made VERY glad that I held off on the cycle. Oh and number 3 on this stack is in the books :head:
the kid is back:rofl:. hey look over at supp forum, theres some talk about a shampoo thats helping prevent shedding. my old buddy poison recommends it and he's reliable.
 
fatburner2007

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Definitely a great stack. Just started something similar myself. Running it for 6 weeks:

Test Boosters:
6 caps Activate Extreme

Estrogen Control:
3 caps Alpha Drive XL

Cortisol Control:
3 caps Lean Extreme

Preworkout:
RPM or Adrenaline

Good luck and keep us posted!

How long you running this for?



A very mild back injury put my phera cycle on hold. So an NHA stack is taking it's place during my back recovery plan. Everyone who is familiar with my logs can vouch for nothing short of brutally honest feedback- this log is NOT sponsored. I personally like the stack and probably would have run something similar anyway even if there wasn't a sale.

Supplement Summary:

Test Boosters:
4 caps Activate Extreme
2 caps "old" Activate (to finish off an open bottle)

Estrogen Control:
4 caps Alpha Drive XL
Eform (dosage dependent on subjective feelings of Alpha Drive effectiveness)

Cortisol Control:
4 caps Lean Extreme (Reduce XT may play a role when LX runs out)

Preworkout:
RPM (dosage dependent on my response)

Additional Supplements:
Multi
Hawthorne Berry
EFA
Vitamin C

Training:
I took 10 days off after the muscle strain and used that time to read about HST training strategies per advice from Sfearl1. He should be the spokesman for HSN... I don't really like the concepts in the articles very much but that SOB sold me on it :nono: As I'm being extra careful to be sure my back is fully healed before I cycle again, I'm basing my routine on the "progressive load" theory and time under tension. Less emphasis/attention is paid to power and specific rep ranges.

Diet:
I love the 40/40/20 ratios for convenience. I float from 250/250/50 to 280/280/55. I'm pretty strict with my diet, which rarely gets sloppy.

Questions, comments, criticism are all welcome as I prefer loosely regulated logs. :head:
 
celc5

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Big T: Cool. I'll take a look at that thread. I've been having good luck alternating Nizarol OTC and Nioxin shampoos with LOTS of conditioner. Looking back, I did have some shedding while on cycle but I'd be just as inclined to say that work schedule stress was the culprit moreso than the halo. I have a pretty cocky nature so the shedding isn't really something that affects my ego and self-esteem like it does to others. I just cut my hair shorter each time :lol:

FatBurner: Looks good. :thumbsup: I think I have enough for 8 weeks but maybe not quite 60 days (does that make sense?). I think it takes longer for an nha stack to kick in than the typical 30 days, especially the divanil products... just a hunch, not really based on scientific research.

Day 17

Sunday, November 25, 2007

Workouts are fun, pump is mediocre, energy is above average, sleep is actually excellent, and it's time to watch some football... life is good :)
 
fatburner2007

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Yeah, I definitely know what you mean about the divanil products taking some time before they "kick-in". Just on day 5 now.


Big T: Cool. I'll take a look at that thread. I've been having good luck alternating Nizarol OTC and Nioxin shampoos with LOTS of conditioner. Looking back, I did have some shedding while on cycle but I'd be just as inclined to say that work schedule stress was the culprit moreso than the halo. I have a pretty cocky nature so the shedding isn't really something that affects my ego and self-esteem like it does to others. I just cut my hair shorter each time :lol:

FatBurner: Looks good. :thumbsup: I think I have enough for 8 weeks but maybe not quite 60 days (does that make sense?). I think it takes longer for an nha stack to kick in than the typical 30 days, especially the divanil products... just a hunch, not really based on scientific research.

Day 17

Sunday, November 25, 2007

Workouts are fun, pump is mediocre, energy is above average, sleep is actually excellent, and it's time to watch some football... life is good :)
 
RisingAgainst

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bro.. Celc, why don't you come chill man, we can play some gamecube, I got some natty ice bro, we can like talk about Dave mathews band and like totally bro out bro. LOL!!
 
celc5

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RA: I'll take you up on the Natty and Gamecube. We'd have a plan to take over the world by time were 1/2 way through the case. I'll decline on the Dave Matthews... easily within the worst 3 concerts I've ever seen, and I've seen about 50 or 60 shows.

Distilled: I'm not familiar enough with ADED to recommend it in post cycle, might want to double check on that. Otherwise, I dose like this:

AM: 1 ActEx, 1OldAct, 1LeanX, 1Alpha Drive, 3 pumps Eform
+4hrs: 1ActEx, 1LeanX, 1AlphaDr
+4hrs: same as AM
+4 hours: same as second dosage

Make sense?

Day 18

Monday, November 26, 2007

Workouts: Just started 5's HST style so the workout was super easy today. Regardless, pump was nice and I feel good all the time training this way.

Supplements: I'm really liking the Lean Extreme. I've ran similar nha stacks without LX and I didn't harden up as much as I seem to be at this point. I'm interested to see what I feel like about 25 or 30 days into this stack.
 
thesinner

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ADED is androgenic ATD. Probably the simplest way of putting it. Too much may become suppressive, as it doesn't push away from AR's as much as something like 6-oxo or 6-bromo (after 17-HSD "activating" them).

Are you doubling up with your 5's or doing them as single worksets?
 
celc5

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ADED is androgenic ATD. Probably the simplest way of putting it. Too much may become suppressive, as it doesn't push away from AR's as much as something like 6-oxo or 6-bromo (after 17-HSD "activating" them).

Are you doubling up with your 5's or doing them as single worksets?
Good info on the ADED. I'm glad I have eform in the mix. I'm guessing that you'd shy away from ADED in post cycle as well? ...since you mentioned suppressive, is this the same active as in Jungle Warfare which was rumored to be 6DMT??? :think:

By doubling up, I'm assuming that you mean 2 sets rather than 1 working set.... I'm actually running the 5's push/pull this week with 3 working sets for most exercises rather than two because time permits doing so (~55min per workout). I was planning on doing the traditional full body routines for the second week of 5's with two working sets per lift simply because that's what will fit my work schedule.

Any suggestions or feedback from your own experience during 5's is certainly welcome :cheers:
 
thesinner

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6DMT is kinda a misleading way to abbreviate it.

DMT (as in pheraplex) is desoxymethyltestosterone

ADED is 6(5)-dehydromethyltestosterone, other synonyms are:
5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17-ol
17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17b-ol
17alpha-methyl-androst-4,6-dien-17beta-ol-3-one



Here's a really informative post by the man himself (Author L. Rhea):
Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - Jungle Warfare Cannot cause Gyno- ALR
 
celc5

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thesinner, good info in that post but the rant certainly clouds the value of the post. It irritates me when someones cries "drama" and responds with retaliation which equals more drama IMO.

I follow your nomenclature, which is pretty darn similar to ATD, correct? But dang, 6DMT just sounds SOOO much sexier and gives me a better placebo effect Ha Ha! At this point, I'm not convinced that Alpha Drive is doing diddly squat for me regardless of the nomenclature. I had similar feelings towards Jungle Warfare's lack of effectiveness. At the same time, it would be unfair for me to judge Alpha Drive until the entire stack is complete.

Hmm, so Alpha Drive might be the culprit for the back and shoulder acne that is popping up? TBH, I was HOPING it was the Activate. I'm less concerned with androgenic effect (I actually welcome it to an extent) but more concerned with supression with what is supposed to be an nha stack. Looking at that last sentence, I guess any time you have androgenic effect you'd also have some potential for suppression :think: Congratulations to me, I've successfully talked in circles.

Good discussion bro :cheers:
 
thesinner

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ADED is missing a double bond at carbon #1.

ATD is similar in structure to 1,4AD. Only difference is that it has an additional double bond at carbon 6. 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione
 
thebigt

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did'nt they remove dmt from phera clones? hey sinner are you pro/con aded. btw celc, i doubt it's the aded in alpha causing acne my bet is it's very low, damned proprietary blends.
 
thesinner

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did'nt they remove dmt from phera clones? hey sinner are you pro/con aded. btw celc, i doubt it's the aded in alpha causing acne my bet is it's very low, damned proprietary blends.
I've never used ADED. From what I've read, it's so-so. I remember reading somewhere that Alpha Drive has about half as much ADED as Jungle Warefare.

Propietary blends are annoying, but they prevent any idiot from stealing your formulation without doing any bit of work. That's why companies never give say ingredients until after the product is released (damn copycats :p).

Phera clones are DMT (desoxymethyltest), without DMT a phera clone would just be filler. Please note, however, that DMT and 6-dehydromethyltest have nothing in common with eachother.
 
thebigt

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I've never used ADED. From what I've read, it's so-so. I remember reading somewhere that Alpha Drive has about half as much ADED as Jungle Warefare.

Propietary blends are annoying, but they prevent any idiot from stealing your formulation without doing any bit of work. That's why companies never give say ingredients until after the product is released (damn copycats :p).

Phera clones are DMT (desoxymethyltest), without DMT a phera clone would just be filler. Please note, however, that DMT and 6-dehydromethyltest have nothing in common with eachother.
thanks for clearing that up. good info.
 

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