- 08-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Yesterday I finished the 5th bottle of 11-oxo and decided to share the results.
Background: It could be found in my Diesel Test 2010 + Raw Test & Diesel Fuel Log
- Age: 28
- Sex: Male
- Height: 5í 9Ē
- BF: 10ó11%
- Weight: 194.2
DC, 2-way split, training MWF
- Saturday or Sunday: 45-60 min brisk walk upon rising
11-oxo caps per day
Week 1: x/6/6/6/6/6/6
Week 2: 6/7/7/7/7/7/7
Week 3: 8/8/8/8/8/8/8
Week 4: 8/8/8/8/8/8/8
Week 5: 10/10/10/10/10/8/8
Week 6: 8/8/8/8/6/x/x
Diet: I do not count calories, I estimate protein grams. Once I get my 2g per lb, I get the rest of the calories from fats or carbs, depending on circumstances. Typically, I have some fruit in the morning and then carbs before and after workout [close to 200 grams]. Most other meals contain almonds or cashews. Unless I am cheating, I donít have carbs on weekends. That way I have managed to gain lean tissue and keep fat down, even lose some in the process.
Thoughts: The most noticeable effects of 11-oxo were on fat loss and mood. Now I know the true effects on cortisol on my body. The very first week I noticed a decrease in willpower: during my second workout on 11-oxo, the Friday of the first week, I harbored thoughts of switching to a less intense routine or quitting lifting altogether. My body adjusted to the effects, eventually, so that never reoccurred.
However, perhaps through the same mechanism, 11-oxo made me weak in the gym. First of all, it took me quite longer to get into the mood and feel like beating the logbook. Usually I am good after the first exercise but I now I was getting enough drive after the third exercise, the fight or flight reaction was delayed significantly. Secondly, even when I knew I had another rep in me, I didnít. I even got stuck under the bar once. That typically happened during the second mini-set of the rest-pause sequence but was consistent throughout. I managed to add 20lbs to my squat and incline smith bench for reps in those 6 weeks, but thatís normal, it is DC training after all.
Whereas cortisol apparently gives me the drive in the gym, it also gives me a lot of anxiety afterwards, since I am flirting with overtraining all the time and my cortisol is normally high and its diurnal rhythm is out of whack. It seems to be low in the morning, getting up has been a struggle for as long as I remember, then goes higher at night, when I feel normal and energetic, and seems to stay high at night because each time I wake up my mind is running an infinite loop of negative thoughts and scenarios that would never occur. Those patterns diminished greatly with 11-oxo and once I tried 4 caps before bed and I was hooked. Days after the gym werenít horrible, my mood was good [for me, that is] and I was relaxed and unengaged in infinite analysis that brings me anxiety. When I tapered down to 8 caps per day, I was still taking 4 before bed and I still believe thatís the dose that gave most of the effects.
I didnít take formal measurements but I visibly leaned out. The effect was most pronounced at 10 caps a day, it was a day and night difference between 8 and 10 caps. I donít think that 11-oxo helped my gains directly, though. My weight went up exactly 12lbs in 6 weeks, but thatís just 4lbs above my previous heaviest attained during my last blast. Since I did lose some fat, Iíd say thatís a gain of 4 lean pounds, which is slightly above normal for me, but again itís likely indirectly caused by the modulation of cortisol. I did not experience and androgenic effects, good or not so good. I did not feel shutdown but I did not feel Ďoní either, I felt Ďoffí [see above]. It is possible that I donít convert prohormones well since once I run a 1AD/4AD stack and got nothing out of it, even after going up to 800mg of 1AD and 900mg of 4AD per day. This is the first nonmethylated hormonal product that worked for me, although not as an androgen, so I am not your best test case.
Overall, I am happy with 11-oxo and Iíd use it again but always with something else run alongside. Just for cortisol modulation, Iíd do 4 caps before bed. For fat loss, Iíd do 12 or more caps for as long as I could milk it. For pure anabolism, I wouldnít bother.
My other reviews:
Diesel Test 2010 + Raw Test & Diesel Fuel Log
Halodrol Liquigels & X-Factor Log
- 08-18-2007, 02:46 PM
good review bro!
and kick arse album!!
- 08-20-2007, 08:29 PM
Now that I have stopped taking 11-oxo I couldn't fall asleep until 4a.m. two nights in a row, melatonin doesn't work, Relax-All doesn't work, I hope it goes away or I'll have to take some mirtazapine. It inhibits cortisol so well that I can barely wake up and function the next day, not that the latter is a necessarily good thing.
08-20-2007, 08:37 PM
08-20-2007, 08:46 PM
05-01-2008, 08:50 PM
I think 11-oxo would be more beneficial to those with excessive bodyfat, as it is a selective inhibitor of 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type I reductase and intracellular activity of 11beta-HSD-1, which catalyzes reduction of cortisone to cortisol, is increased in obese people.
I'm going to try it during my next cycle.
05-01-2008, 09:19 PM
You description above was absolutley hilarious to me, because it is an exact description of the way I sleep. I can actually get worked up enough after waking from a dead sleep that I will not go back to sleep at all and then most likely not fall asleep the next day as well. The wierdest thing is most of my friends and coworkers tend to describe me as the most rational/logical person of the group.
Please let us know if you get back to a better sleep pattern and what it takes to do so.
05-08-2008, 09:30 PM
05-08-2008, 09:38 PM
We are quite similar then. We tend to be more rational because we think so much. Well not so much for me anymore.
I finally managed to normalize my cortisol after trying phosphatidyl serine for some time. I started with 400mg pre-workout and 400 post-, then 400 on off days. Then I stopped taking it on off days and sometimes on days on but once it built up, it seems, the effects were still there. I started feeling fine after the gym, slept with no problems and felt above average on days after the gym which were the worst. My appetite holds up on days off and eating a pound of meat at once is very easy and enjoyable now.
Then I tried Arimidex at a very low dose (0.1mg EOD) and within a week my mind cleared and I couldn't make it worry about and overanalyze things as much as I tried. So it must have been a estrogen or testosterone/estrogen ratio too in addition to disturbed cortisol rhythm. I'm glad I fixed something that has bothered me for as long as I can remember.
05-08-2008, 11:14 PM
I just ordered EndoAmp which I a hoping covers the phosphatidyl serine need well. We are on the same page, I wonder about estrogen level being an issue as well or at least the ration of test to estrogen. Of the few PH cycles I have done I do tend to sleep a lot better. If the EndoAmp doesn't help I may see if Arimidex has an affect at really low dose.
11-02-2009, 01:52 PM
do we think running 11-OXO with say Epistane would be a good dry cycle?
11-02-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't know. Either one may be good for leaning out. If you want to lose some fat and save money Suppress-C is an option too.
11-02-2009, 03:21 PM
Keep in mind even though 11-oxo at high doses can only be very mildly anabolic, it is best for cortisol control, I have heard success with the standard dose, and yes PCT because it can effect your normal t levels
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