rothyman's epistane/dhea log

[rothyman]

First of all, I'm 21. I've never used a PH in my life, been clean as a whistle. I've been educating myself around the forums (just signed up for this one) for 3 or 4 years now. I'm 5'8 175lbs. I've recently just switched to a 5x5 routine to increase my major lifts (so far so good

Goals - To gain lean mass and vascularity, preferably no bloat. A reachable goal I would think would be 6 - 8lbs

Diet - Just above maintenance, all clean proteins (chicken, fish) and not too many carbs.

Epistane
Week 1 – 20mg (10mg first day)
Week 2 – 30 mg
Week 3 – 30mg
Week 4 – 30/40mg depending on side-effects

DHEA
Week 1 - 100mg
Week 2 - 200mg
Week 3 - 200mg
Week 4 - 200mg

Support Supps
Cycle Support (1 week pre-load and during cycle)
Fish Oil 3g/day
Taurine 2-3g/day
Multi
Sesamin 1g/day

post cycle therapy
Toremifene
First 4 Days – 120mg
Week 2 – 90mg
Week 3 – 60mg
Week 4 – 30mg (If needed)

SNS Reduce XT
Week 1 – 3 Caps
Week 2 – 3 Caps
Week 3 – 3 Caps
Week 4 – 3 Caps

NO Product
Creatine
Xtend
Cycle Support

[rothyman]

Day 2
Starting Weight - 173
Current Weight - 173

Chest/Tris
Today was a sub-par day in the gym. Going in I had major pumps and a great feeling about my workout. Soon enough, muscle soreness set in and while I still had pumps, I didn't feel so ontop of the world anymore. This was strange considering I rested a lot this week, working out only 2 days of the 5. Anyways -

DB Press
5x120
5x140
5x160
5x180
3x190

Incline DB Press
5x100
5x120
5x140
5x160
4x170

Dec DB Flies
50x12
60x10
70x8

Dips (till failure)
20x
16x

Skullcrushers
55x12
65x10
75x8

Reverse Grip Pushdowns
80x12
90x10
110x8

So far, not bad. Took 20mg the first day and I felt minor tightness in my back,which taurine relieved.

I'm thinking about just ramping up to 30/30/30/40 for the rest of my cycle since I'm seeing some good results through that on the forums. Only thing I'm hesitant about is shutdown. I feel the more I take over 4 weeks, the worse shutdown will be. Anyone want to chime in on whether it's ok to ramp up to 30?

[hardestgainer]

what u dosing the dhea at?

[rothyman]

what u dosing the dhea at?

Sorry I'm going to edit my first post.

100mg First Week
200mg Till end through pct

[hardestgainer]

why the dhea? just curious

[Werewolf]

Sorry I'm going to edit my first post.

100mg First Week
200mg Till end through post cycle therapy

You want to get DHEA down below 101 mgs before last week on post cycle therapy. It is suppressive at amounts above that. Usually a 21 year old isn't going see much benefit from DHEA off-cycle.

[neoborn]

/subbed

[rothyman]

why the dhea? just curious

Redivision posted a solid Epistane/DHEA log on BB.com. I've heard it helps with libido/joints. Is there any reason I shouldn't be taking DHEA?

[Werewolf]

Redivision posted a solid Epistane/DHEA log on BB.com. I've heard it helps with libido/joints. Is there any reason I shouldn't be taking DHEA?

DHEA is useful for producing estrogen on cycle, it also produces testosterone. It should not be used on cycles that produce a lot estrogen all ready (wet steriods). Yes, it can help with libido and joints. Epistane is not a wet steriod. Epistane is actually going to try to block the estrogen so I don't know how the two are going to work together. DHEA is also helpful keeping white blood cell counts up and LDL levels up from the estrogen produced when on an estrogen reducing cycle.

[hardestgainer]

DHEA is useful for producing estrogen on cycle, it also produces testosterone. It should not be used on cycles that produce a lot estrogen all ready (wet steriods). Yes, it can help with libido and joints. Epistane is not a wet steriod. Epistane is actually going to try to block the estrogen so I don't know how the two are going to work together. DHEA is also helpful keeping white blood cell counts up and LDL levels up from the estrogen produced when on an estrogen reducing cycle.

Awesome, thanks man. I am going to be running epi soon so i was wondering about the dhea.

[Variocam]

Id go for more than 4 weeks, thats really short. Epistane is supposed to be pretty mild.

I did superdrol for 3 for my first cycle and still regret it. I think you have to be on it for awhile to guarantee that you keep alot of the gains when you go off.

[hardestgainer]

Id go for more than 4 weeks, thats really short. Epistane is supposed to be pretty mild.

I did superdrol for 3 for my first cycle and still regret it. I think you have to be on it for awhile to guarantee that you keep alot of the gains when you go off.

hahah, that's funny

[rothyman]

Id go for more than 4 weeks, thats really short. Epistane is supposed to be pretty mild.

I did superdrol for 3 for my first cycle and still regret it. I think you have to be on it for awhile to guarantee that you keep alot of the gains when you go off.

I appreciate the advice, but I've seen countless logs of guys going on for 4 weeks and keeping everything through PCT. Although you might think epistane is "mild", different drugs effect different people in different ways.

As for Superdrol, I might sound like a *****, but I'd never do a cycle of that stuff. I've heard it's so bad for you, why not just do regular gear?

[rothyman]

Day 3

Current Wt : 172lbs

10mg Before Workout
10mg Tonight

Overall good day @ the gym. Set some PRs. Had some minor back pumps during my workout. Also, I noticed my heart was beating a little faster earlier this morning after my 10mg.

Deadlift
195x5
205x5
225x5
275x5
315x5 PR!

Bent Over BB Rows
95x5
115x5
135x5
155x5
185x5 PR!

Lat. Pulldowns
70x6
100x6
130x6
160x6 PR!

[Solitude]

rothyman

Are you using IBE Epistane or Genera Supplements Epidrol?

[rothyman]

rothyman

Are you using IBE Epistane or Genera Supplements Epidrol?

Epistane

[rothyman]

Day 4

Weight - 172

Not much to report. I've been taking 20mg for 4 days now and I think I'm going to up the dose to 30 tomorrow. I don't want to rush the cycle, but I do feel that boosting it to 30 would be alright. I've seen guys running 30/30/40/40 cycles all over the forums.

Side Effects - Minor Back Pumps
Minor Acne

[LakeMountD]

Yeah bumping to 30mg would be fine. I will say that 20mg takes a little longer to kick in but 20 or 30 give it a week and you'll be rollin . Epistane is very sensitive to calories, so continue to up your cals until you get the desired weight gain. It does a pretty good job of keeping you lean!

[rothyman]

Day 5

Weight : 173

Dosage : 20mg Pre-Workout (11am), 10mg Dinner (6PM)
DHEA - 100mg 11am, 100mg 6pm

Today was the first day I noticed a strength increase. I decided to take 30mg yesterday, popping a 10mg before I went to bed. I got up today feeling great, and took 20mg before I went to the gym. I felt a decent pump and definitely a small strength increase at the gym.

Shoulders/Biceps/Squats

DB Shoulder Press
90x12
110x10
130x7
140x4

DB Frontal Raises
20x12
25x10
30x8
35x5

Bent Over Rows (Hands over grip)
95x12
115x10
135x8
155x6

Military Presses (Behind Neck)
95x12
115x10
135x8
155x4

Concentration Curls
25x12
30x10
35x8

Alt. Inc. DB Curls
20x12
25x10
30x8

Squats
175x20

Sides - None except for minor acne, getting a little bit worse.

[neoborn]

Keep up the good work

[metroba]

Sheesh you have some really impressive lifts..subbed and repped

[rothyman]

Day 6

Weight - 175 (+2)

Dosage : 10mg 11AM, 10mg 5PM, 10mg 11PM
DHEA - 100mg 11am, 100mg 5pm

Update - I took 2 days off of Epi. I had an important event that inevitably involved drinking, therefore I decided to play it safe. Anyways I didn't lift today but I took 30mg spread out through the day. After a week, I'm very satisfied with my results. I've yet to have a negative side effect, with the exception of some back pain when drinking last night (no more alcohol for me on cycle). I'm up 2lbs and I feel a little stronger and leaner. Nothing spectacular, but it's there.

Tomorrow is chest, so hopefully I'll see some gains unless the past few days wore me out.

Sides - Some back pumps/pain when drinking lastnight. I'm not touching alcohol again till the cycle is over.

[rothyman]

Sheesh you have some really impressive lifts..subbed and repped

Thanks.. I never really thought I was so great in the strength category, but I appreciate the compliment. I'm happy with my size, but the real reason I'm on this cycle is for strength.

[rothyman]

Day 8

So I'm a week into my cycle and I'm wondering when things are going to start kicking in. I'm still around 173/175 fluctuating. As far as vascularity goes, I look about the same. I've seen little/no strength increase even when going 20mg pre-workout. Yesterday I was hoping to have a diesel CHEST day @ the gym, but it turned out to be one of my worst workouts in awhile.

My caloric intake is around 2800 and I'm splitting 40/40/20. I'm drinking plenty of water everyday. I'm going to up my protein intake a bit to see if things change.

Also, I'm changing my cycle as long as sides aren't bad.

Wk1 - 20mg
Wk2 - 30mg
Wk3 - 40mg
Wk4 - 40mg/50mg

Could the 200mg of DHEA/day have a negative effect with the epistane? If anyone has any pointers let me know. Then again, I could be expecting too much from a mild steroid, but I have seen no improvement in the gym thus far.

Oh yeah, and I think the joint dryness is kicking in. My back/elbows/shoulders have been sore all the time the past 3 or 4 days. When I was benching yesterday, I had to stop on my last set due to soreness near my armpits/shoulders/arms. It really pissed me off because my chest wasn't even worn down, but my shoulders and arms were! This makes NO SENSE at all, being that my chest has always been a weaker part of me and my arms have always been gigantic in comparison. I'm thinking about buying some cissus tomorrow if they sell them at local nutrition stores

[beebab]

nice log so far, subb'd. also, nice lifts I must say. You can push up 140 lb dumbbells in the shoulder press? Thats good **** bro, very impressive. you gonna post any pics?

[rothyman]

nice log so far, subb'd. also, nice lifts I must say. You can push up 140 lb dumbbells in the shoulder press? Thats good **** bro, very impressive. you gonna post any pics?

I think you're mistaken =/ By 140 I mean 70s (70+70)

I'm posting a few pics as we speak

[rothyman]

photo sucks, but it's all i've got right now. I'll post more later on. This was taken a few days ago.

[beebab]

I think you're mistaken =/ By 140 I mean 70s (70+70)

I'm posting a few pics as we speak

haha oh, well whatever. 70 is still nothing to scoff at. keep up the good work bro, interested to see your results on epi

[rothyman]

Day 10

Yesterday I had a great workout. I didn't record it all, but I got a few things down. I feel like Epistane is starting to kick in. While my weight hasn't gone up all that much, I feel like I look a little more vascular. My girlfriend told me I looked "bigger" when she saw me today for the first time in 4 or 5 days.

Also, I found the right dosage for me.
9am-10mg
12pm (pre-workout)-10mg
10pm - 10mg

Deadlift (5x5)
245x5

Bent Over BB Rows (5x5)
145x5

Lat Pushdowns (6x4)
100x4

Those were my major lifts, I also did some other various rows and some lower back work.

I've never had such a pumped/sore back after workout. I could hardly operate at work lastnight. This is a good sore, though. I feel as if my I really got the workout I needed yesterday. I'm taking 2 days to go up to NYC, I'll be back Friday for Chest/Tris

[rothyman]

Day 13

WT : 179LBS (+6!)

EPISTANE KICKS IN!!! (FINALLY)

Dosage : 10mg 9AM, 10mg 12PM (PWO), 10mg 6PM
DHEA : 100mg 9AM, 100mg 6PM

Epistane kicks ass. I've been lifting for 5 years since starting football in high school. I've easily improved lifts on all my body parts EXCEPT my CHEST. I've never been able to get my max above 225 on bench, yet alone put 225 up more than once. Epistane has helped me BREAK this plateau. FINALLY. I've been taking it for 2 weeks now and it's finally starting to kick in like I've been told it should.

CHEST/TRIS

BB Flat Bench
185x5
185x5
185x5
185x5
205x6 (PR!!!)

BB Inc. Bench
135x5
135x5
135x5
155x5
155x5

Decline Flies
15x15
15x15
15x15

Dips
BWx14
BWx14
BWx14

Dual Standing Tri. Kickbacks (w/ Rotation @ end)
10x15
10x15
10x15

Cable Tri. Kickbacks
15x15
15x15
15x15

Diamond Pushups
BWx15
BWx15

Overall kickass day in the gym. It may not look like much, but my CHEST is always the weakest part of my week. I haven't set a PR on bench in almost a year. I don't credit this only to epistane, but also to the 5x5 program that after years of avoiding, I finally decided to test out (with great results!). I went in to todays workout fearing that I wouldn't be able to finish 185 in my 5x5. Instead, I felt so great I upped it 20lbs and did it 6 times!

[rothyman]

Day 17

Weight - 176lbs

Dosage - (40mg) - 10mg 9am, 10mg PWO, 10mg 5PM, 10mg 11PM

Overall Feeling - Very good. I've been waiting for signs of vascularity and I'm finally getting them. I look a lot better around my chest and my back muscles are really defined.

Strength - +20lbs bench, +10lbs Deadlift

Sides - Minor Acne, Minor loss in libido, Intense backpumps (need at least 5mg Taurine/day), Lethargy (then again I've worked 11 days in a row with no break ), Some Joint Pain

Major Lifts :
BB Bench Press - 205x6 (5x5)
Squats - 245x5 (5x5)
Deadlift - 265x5 (5x5)

[pistonpump]

subbed.

[rothyman]

Day 31 (4 days remaining)

WT : 180

Epistane @ 60mg
20mg Pre-WO (11am)
10mg Post-WO (1PM)
20mg @ 6PM
10mg Before bed

DHEA - 100mg Pre-WO, 100mg Before bed

Ok, so first of all I apologize for not keeping a detailed log for the past 2 weeks. I've upped my doses as follows -

20/30/30/40/50-60 (last 4 days of cycle @ 60)

I decided to up my dosage to 60 since I was seeing really no ill side effects besides some occasional lethargy.

Summary of Cycle

I'm not overly impressed with my cycle. Not because of Epistane, but because of some poor nutrition and training during the cycle. So I guess I should said, I'm not very impressed with my discipline.

With that said, I did gain 7lbs of lean mass. I made the following strength gains -

Bench
185 x 6 (Before)
215 x 6 (NOW)

Deadlift
275x5 (Before)
335x5 (NOW)

Squats
N/A - Quad injury really didn't allow me to squat towards the last few weeks of my cycle.

Vascularity
I'm very impressed with my appearance. My core is substantially larger and more defined. I've been getting all kinds of compliments @ the gym. Ranging from "How did you get your torso so big?" to "Man you must be on gear"

Overall, I'm pleased with my gains. With that said, I'm looking forward to going into post cycle therapy so I can finally start going out with my buddies to drink. The last month I've been practically a social nobody to avoid drinking and/or smoking.

I begin Torem @ 120mg Monday. I haven't picked up ReduceXT yet, but I'm still contemplating adding it to my PCT. Oh yeah, and as far as libido, I didn't notice any shutdown until I bumped it up to 60mg. And even @ 60mg, shutdown is minimal.

If anyone has ?s let me know.

[pistonpump]

Id have to congratulate you, that is a good cycle imo. 7lbs from epi and some numbers gained on your lifts....that is good bro.

[MattRoeske]

Good in depth log, Liked it cuz i ran dhea for a month @ 100mg With taking serious mass thru optinum nutrition and rolled up 14lbs so lets see what epi does on it, im on day 7 lol and wanting it to kick in!

[pistonpump]

Good in depth log, Liked it cuz i ran dhea for a month @ 100mg With taking serious mass thru optinum nutrition and rolled up 14lbs so lets see what epi does on it, im on day 7 lol and wanting it to kick in!

14lbs from that?! how much serious mass were u taking in each day?

[MattRoeske]

I was dong 1.5 servings a day so an added 1800 cals about 400 carbs + 75g protein etc all from serious mass
and

on like day 17 of Epi with added Dhea at 40mgs I boosted it up because 30 didnt seem like much now i get such a pump and feel like i can lift the whole gym, Hit some record #'s today in back/chest and ate 5 deep dish slices yest gained 2.2lbs haha

[THEGEEZ]

take some pics dude !

[p5sky]

Good log, too bad I got in here late. Yeah, I was impressed and confused with DB exercises . . . who has 170 lb DBs? Then I realized that you added the 2 for a total.

Pics coming?