"Mass Tabs" Log!!!
- 07-27-2007, 02:34 PM
- 07-29-2007, 09:39 AM
OK... i know about "shutdown" ....
But i dont think i had it very bad at all (if any)....
Tell me what you think....
I mainly experiences REALLY REALLY lethargic during the 2nd week...... Then that went away in a few days... i up'ed my carb intake....
I have liquid nolvadex.. but since nothing was like gyno... or any major estrogen related sides occured i didn't take it.
I am now into day 3 of my MassFx/HyperdrolX2/Retain2 stack that i am using as my post cycle therapy...... Should i start to include a daily dose of the liquid nolva? Maybe a dose of 40/30/20/10 (4 weeks)???
Even if i experienced no real gyno or estro-rebound? (and what are some major indicators of estro-rebound?)
I like the MassFX/HyperdrolX2/Retain2..... i really think it is helping keep my cortisol levels down.... i think thats HUGE for me as i am in the military and sometimes my eating schedule (as much as i pack ahead.... and try to bring cans of tuna and nuts and protein shakes with me) can get a little screwed up.
- 07-29-2007, 10:44 AM
I say go ahead and run the Nolva as you said. Being shutdown is not only determined by physical changes, although it can be. You already have it, so why not use it?
07-29-2007, 02:09 PM
Yeah i would definitely run the nolva just to be safe cause you dont want to have to worry about delayed onset gyno.
07-29-2007, 02:45 PM
Serms aren't just for blocking gyno. Tamox increases the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone) thus helping to jumpstart your hpta.
07-29-2007, 04:30 PM
Ok ok ok...
I'll run the liquid nolvadex..... LOL
ALSO... had to go to the doctor today... so i figured i'd get some bloodwork done.
I have a blood test (which includes liver and kidney function) along with a full testosterone test being done.
I should the results back by wednesday... So we'll exactly where i am at....
07-29-2007, 04:34 PM
I'm assuming the PCT that IDS offers for the 'Mass Tabs' is insufficient huh ?
08-07-2007, 08:32 AM
Big update folks....
HOLY CRAP!!! Got my blood tests back....
Liver and Kidneys were good. Kidneys showed signs of dehydration.... so i am pounding more water and being REALLY good about my "Cycle Support" product.....
Test levels came back today.... and NOT GOOD!
MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR shutdown! For a guy my age.... TEST should be a BARE MINIMUM of 38 to a high of 158..... (free test....)
MY free test was at 9! FREAKIN 9! I was already 2-3 weeks into PCT.... and they are at 9!!! My TOTAL test levels are only at 26!!!! (they should be at over 200!!!)
I am taking my SERM... (which i am begining to think is BS.... i got liquid Nolvadex from a "reputible" person on....) and ALL my PCT products (i.e. natty test booster, AI, cortisol blocker...)
What should i do folks?
Let them rebound on their own...? The Dr. said i REALLY need to see an endocryologist (i'm assuming thats a testosterone Dr....)
Your Thoughts?? Should i just wait to see how the PCT works?
08-07-2007, 09:03 AM
wow thats bad news. Go see an endo anyway and see what they say. How is your libido/sex drive, and ability to have an erection?
08-07-2007, 09:09 AM
My ex dropped my ass a few months back (been hittin the gym REALLY har since then)....
I haven't really had ANY WANT or DRIVE to have ANY sex. Have had about 3 erections in the past week.....
I didn't really think that it may have been the Mass Tabs.... I just assumed i was upset about the ex... and i am busy and when you have NO REAL WANT to have sex... i tended to just not think about it...
In hindsight.... yea... my libido and erections are nearly non-existent...
It hasn't been an issue (b/c i haen't been with anyone since the ex...) but now i am thinking this isn't good. I have no signs of gyno.... and i think my estrogen is ok... but when one hormone (i.e. Test) is low.. the body compensate with an increase in the other hormone (estrogen)...
Could a delayed estrogen rebound take place? Its been a few weeks since i've been on Mass Tabs... and i've been good with my post cycle therapy.... my test is STILL at 9....
And the endo Dr costs over $350 for initial visit... PLUS any bllod work or tests... i DO NOT have insurance OR any money for that!
I think i will bump up the MassFX, Hyperdrol and Retain 2 dosage... and taper it off when i feel better.
I notice i am VERY VERY tired all the time.
08-07-2007, 09:15 AM
i was in the same situation with a breakup. THats what got me back hard in the gym. anyway...
keep taking that serm.
take a look at the anti aging forum for help. Tell them your bloodwork numbers but whatever you do DO NOT MENTION TAKING ANABOLICS! See what they reccommend for you.
08-07-2007, 11:17 AM
When I went through a nasty divorce a year ago I was sex-driveless for nearly 6 months, even though I hadn't had sex in almost the last 2 years I was married.
I did a few rounds of test boosters and 6-OXO and still didn't have much of a libido until I met my current girl. The dozen women before them just didn't do anything for me.
After a month or so of us dating the first time in the ring I went 7 rounds with her on a sunday. She didn't recover from that for nearly a week.
From then on out I've ranged from 3 times a day to 4-5 times a week on a good week.
Not too bad for being almost 33.
Do your PCT, but don't let it get in your head even more that you're 'broken'.
Just from what I learned during my rocky 7 year marriage, is that your mental status will make or break you in the bedroom and any where else.
08-07-2007, 11:33 AM
i had a feeling that was what was killing me too. I still am searching for someone to give it back to me. Ive been with a handful of girls since then but none ive been that 'driven' for.
okay back on topic.
08-12-2007, 11:12 PM
08-13-2007, 11:30 AM
Things are looking MUCH better...
The Dr. said "well whatever supplements your taking are causing your body to think it has too much test and is therefore not producing it" (so i assume she had an idea that was what i was talking about...)
Also.. i'm into week one of my SERM and PCT products... Just one week of this SERM and i can FINALLY feel some libido! LOL THANK GOD! Erections are great! I forgot what they were like for the past 5 days!!! LOL
08-13-2007, 05:36 PM
08-13-2007, 10:08 PM
Yeah, nolva, activate, and a little ATD had my fellas hanging lower than ever. The gf took it pretty hard... pun intended.
08-13-2007, 10:23 PM
Does Paravol help this issue at all?
08-14-2007, 12:00 AM
yeah paravol would be a good choice to add, of course the SERM will do the most good, but it definitely would not hurt.
08-14-2007, 11:13 AM
INSIDIOUS, do you work out incilne bench more than flat and decline, you seem to have a lot of your pecs on the upper and out into your shoulder
08-14-2007, 11:15 AM
08-14-2007, 11:24 AM
I was thought hand placement worked triceps more or less based on close vs far
08-14-2007, 11:31 AM
08-14-2007, 11:37 AM
08-14-2007, 11:40 AM
Angles do make a difference, maybe. But nowhere near as much as you're think. I am starting to have a decently developed chest and only do incline. Yet my lower chest is fuller than the top.
08-14-2007, 12:57 PM
Hey folks!!! WOW...
I LOVE IT! My thread is blowing up!! LOL
To be honest... i always felt my UPPER chest is my area that needs MOST improvement.... I think it may have been the way i took the pic, to be honest with ya!
I DO start out with incline... since its my "developmental area" (i.e. weak area) i hit it first and hit it HARD!!!! I then switch up my flat bench from dumbbells to barbell every other week.....
DIPS ARE MY FAVORITE though... i strap on about 15lbs on a weight belt and pump them out! JUST GOTTA GET THE SHOULDERS WARMED UP!
But THANK YOU... i didn't see my chest as ANYTHING worth mentioning! I'm about to hit up the gym in about 15 min... eating my apple and my 1 scoop of protein....
And i find that its a VERY tricky thing with hand placement. I've ALWAYS gone REALLY wide... thus the reason for the development on the outerside of my pec... BUT.. i feel my shoulders take over a bit TOO much! I now am bringing my grip a LOT closer and notice i get a better pump in the chest...
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
08-15-2007, 12:14 AM
I always grip the bar so that when it touches my chest at the bottom of the motion, my forearms are perpendicular to the bar. I mean from the elbow to the wrist. Whether it's flat, incline, or decline. This has worked greatly for me in the past 6 months and the growth speaks for itself.
08-15-2007, 06:48 AM
I usually have my hand slightly closer than that...but I am really trying to bring up my inner pecs...
08-15-2007, 09:19 AM
As am i.... My inner pecs sorta lack...
Well to be honest... my WHOLE FREAKING CHEST is lacking! But it will come along... I am allowing myself more carbs and cals per day, which is helping me during my PCT period...
Oh and by the way.... i hate PCT time... It really makes you miss the weeks prior.... It likely wouldn't have been soo bad if it wasn't for my libido and my Test levels dropping SOOOOO bad....
08-15-2007, 09:42 AM
The post cycle therapy blues will get you every time...keep your head up, keep supplementing, eating big and training hard...it'll pass
08-15-2007, 09:54 AM
Thank you Sir....
Since i waited a week and a half BEFORE starting my SERM (i know i know, i was stupid! ... i just didn't think i had any real reason to.. i felt no shutdown or anything adverse...) my test dropped HARD CORE!!!!!!
Its coming back... i feel less lethargic... my strength is STARTING to increase again.. The hard part is...
When my test was normal.. and when on the ProHormone... i had an INSATIABLE desire to hit the gym! With my test being soo low... it hard to get off my lazy ass and pound the weight...
Right now i'm taking Liquid Nolvadex, Retain2, Anabolic Pump, and PowerFULL....
I have 2/3 bottle of MassFX and HyperdrolX2 (which i stopped taking b/c its sorta pointless when hittin the SERM at 40mg a day...). I am into my 2nd week of 40mg a day of Nolvadex... WHEN can i start taking the MassFX and HyperdrolX2...?
Or if not that (b/c it MIGHT cause VERY mild shutdown..)... can i start taking some tibulous... just to boost me back up..?
08-15-2007, 09:59 AM
use what you are using now then add the massfx after you finish your 4 weeks of serm.
08-15-2007, 10:19 AM
I couldn't comment on the trib...never really believed in it.
I agree with PP, wait til the PCT is over.
And you're going to be shutdown whether you feel it / see it or not...
08-15-2007, 10:25 AM
I now know... RULE NUMERO UNO (thats "Rule #1", for those that don't speak spanish! LOL):
DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THING THAT SERMS ARE NOT NEEDED WITH MASS TABS! LOL
08-15-2007, 11:44 AM
Trib? yeah i never believed in that stuff either. But i guess you dont know until you try.
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