Late to the Havoc party...

[Travis]

Decided to try and log my experience with Havoc since I at least owe that to this extremely useful forum. I am doing the basic 20/30/30/40mg cycle. During cycle is the typical cycle support, taurine, creatine, and other basics.

For post cycle therapy I have some Nolva and I'll possibly throw in some Massfx and restore.

I doubt I'll post every workout as I only have limited time during the week but I do want to report on sides, and body recomp progress. My goal is to gain as much lean mass as possible. I have been training for about 6 years (last 3 have been "smart training").

I do not know my current BF% but I may get that tested before the cycle begins (Monday) and once its over. I currently weight approx 200lbs at 6'1". I have a short torso and long limbs so things like bench and squat are difficult for me however deadlifts are a breeze. Surprisingly the barbell squat is my favorite lift. I love adding weight to my squat as little as it is sometimes.

Only questions I want to throw out to the board are the following:

1. Currently about a third of the way through a bottle of AP and Powerfull. Should I save these for PCT, continue to use them, or what would be the most effective use of these supps for this cycle? I am thinking I will continue to use the AP until it runs out, but I'm not entirely sure on the powerfull.


I do not currently have a digital camera for pics but I have one in the mail im waiting to receive so I can get before and after photos.

[john123131]

sounds good, ill keep an eye out!

[Hank Vangut]

1. Currently about a third of the way through a bottle of AP and Powerfull. Should I save these for post cycle therapy, continue to use them, or what would be the most effective use of these supps for this cycle? I am thinking I will continue to use the AP until it runs out, but I'm not entirely sure on the powerfull.

you won't need to continue AP & Powerfull once you start your cycle. but those should be excellent for post cycle therapy.

if it were me - i like to go with out any testostrone boosers at least 2 months before starting a cycle such as Havoc. this allows my body to get to its natural test levels and able to experience the most benefit once on cycle.

but i'm frugal and want to make the most out of every pill i swallow. if you have money to blow on sups, take them all together. hell, double up even.

[sfearl1]

i was wondering the same thing. i have two bottles of ap here and was planning on running through the entirety of my cycle and post cycle. would it even benefit my cycle if i take it while on??

[Travis]

Just a quick update. Started 10mg preWO and 10mg postWO yesterday. Did chest and bi's yesterday and it felt good. Nothing out of this world but a good solid pump.

I will say the taste of cycle support is terrible and I see they now have a pill form out. Legs and squat tonight. Pumped...

[Travis]

Also I discontinued use of AP and powerfull for the time being...

[Travis]

Almost forgot weight myself this morning and it was 199.5lbs. Getting BF tested Thursday, guessing it will be between 13-16% hopefully no more!

[sfearl1]

good luck bro! i'm starting my havoc cycle in three weeks when school is over- i can't wait!! i'll be watching this for sure

[Hank Vangut]

Also I discontinued use of AP and powerfull for the time being...

good call. havoc by itself should do it's job. and it sounds like you already have your diet and training down.

are you planning on using the rest of your AP & PF for PCT?
could make for a good post cycle where you keep gaining.

[bigschmidt821]

i was under the impression that taking AP during a cycle would actually be extremely beneficial...

"Speaking of testosterone - as a user of steroids and growth hormone, do I need this supplement?

YES! Imagine force feeding your muscles with glucose and amino acids in a super anabolic state while PROMOTING FAT OXIDATION! You would be foolish not to use ANABOLIC-PUMP™ in conjunction with these compounds. Human growth hormone lowers your sensitivity to insulin, therefore ANABOLIC-PUMP™ makes PERFECT sense!"
just a thought

[Travis]

I believe Dr. D has recommended using AP with Epi. I would like to give a fair review of havoc as a stand alone since I have used AP before and know that it works for me. I may decide to use it in PCT. I have massfx, and powerfull so I will hopefully find the right use for everything. Im just going into it flexible and since I have a bunch of stuff I am more then prepared.

Weight this morning was 200lbs on the nose. Tonight is just a cardio night. BF will get tested tomorrow night before my workout. I should have pics up tonight hopefully.

[Travis]

Weighed in this morning at 203lbs. I think the increase is mainly due to water weight as I have kept the liquids heavy. Maybe not though since last night i hit the cardio pretty hard.

Got the body fat tested before my back workout tonight. 12.8% BF. I predicted between 13-16% so I guess I should be happy, but I dont really want to see that go up much on this cycle...looking only for lean mass.

Back workout wasnt too great tonight. I cant really say I have yet to feel the Havoc doing anything but I'm only at 20mg right now so I'm not expecting much.

One question. The half life of 10mg is 6-8 hours, therefore should I dose once in the morning, and once post workout? Right now I am doing 10mg pre workout and 10mg post (about 3 hours apart). What are the opinions on the optimal dosing??? Thanks

[bigschmidt821]

my oppinion is when taken on a workout day take the full dose about an hour before the workout without protein to get the best bloodspike of levels. this is found in the anabolic's 2007 book. i have tested this method and it works the best IMO. ideal especailly on a pulse method. you cant have protein cuz it messes with the absorbtion best on an empty stomach.

[Travis]

Thanks big, however I have seen other posts recommending taking it with food (PCF not specified), for better absorption. I have yet to take it on an empty stomach. Perhaps I'll try that tomorrow.

[Travis]

Taken 4-12

[Travis]

Weight this morning was 203 again. Today I worked shoulders and tri's. I had some vicious shoulder pumps (front delts specifically), which were definitely to the point of uncomfortable. Tri pump felt good.

I took havoc on a somewhat empty stomach about 60 minutes prior to workout. It still feels as though my workouts have been "unaggressive" if that makes sense. Cardio tomorrow or Sunday with the other day as an off day.

Looking forward to bumping up to 30mg next week and maybe I'll feel it a little more...

[bigschmidt821]

how exactly is your dosing going?

[Travis]

So far I have been doing 10mg 60 to 90 minutes pre workout. Then 10mg about 3 hours later between PWO shake and first meal after workout.

I reread your earlier post and I see your suggestion was to take the full 20mg pre workout, correct?

To be honest I cant say I have felt anything from 20mg yet, both positive or negative. Of course that doesnt mean anything at this stage (week 1).

[bigschmidt821]

when u take it all at once your blood will spike better. i stacked anavar with havoc i took my full dose of anavar in the morning and a full 30 mg of havoc in the pre workout time. it made my intensity go through the rough better than superdorl did.

[Travis]

Thanks bro. Since I dont have a lifting day this weekend I'll pry just space them out evenly. Next week I'll try 30mg pre workout on empty stomach.