Late to the Havoc party...

[Travis]

Decided to try and log my experience with Havoc since I at least owe that to this extremely useful forum. I am doing the basic 20/30/30/40mg cycle. During cycle is the typical cycle support, taurine, creatine, and other basics.

For post cycle therapy I have some Nolva and I'll possibly throw in some Massfx and restore.

I doubt I'll post every workout as I only have limited time during the week but I do want to report on sides, and body recomp progress. My goal is to gain as much lean mass as possible. I have been training for about 6 years (last 3 have been "smart training").

I do not know my current BF% but I may get that tested before the cycle begins (Monday) and once its over. I currently weight approx 200lbs at 6'1". I have a short torso and long limbs so things like bench and squat are difficult for me however deadlifts are a breeze. Surprisingly the barbell squat is my favorite lift. I love adding weight to my squat as little as it is sometimes.

Only questions I want to throw out to the board are the following:

1. Currently about a third of the way through a bottle of AP and Powerfull. Should I save these for PCT, continue to use them, or what would be the most effective use of these supps for this cycle? I am thinking I will continue to use the AP until it runs out, but I'm not entirely sure on the powerfull.


I do not currently have a digital camera for pics but I have one in the mail im waiting to receive so I can get before and after photos.

 

[john123131]

sounds good, ill keep an eye out!

 

[Hank Vangut]

1. Currently about a third of the way through a bottle of AP and Powerfull. Should I save these for post cycle therapy, continue to use them, or what would be the most effective use of these supps for this cycle? I am thinking I will continue to use the AP until it runs out, but I'm not entirely sure on the powerfull.

you won't need to continue AP & Powerfull once you start your cycle. but those should be excellent for post cycle therapy.

if it were me - i like to go with out any testostrone boosers at least 2 months before starting a cycle such as Havoc. this allows my body to get to its natural test levels and able to experience the most benefit once on cycle.

but i'm frugal and want to make the most out of every pill i swallow. if you have money to blow on sups, take them all together. hell, double up even.

 

[sfearl1]

i was wondering the same thing. i have two bottles of ap here and was planning on running through the entirety of my cycle and post cycle. would it even benefit my cycle if i take it while on??

 

[Travis]

Just a quick update. Started 10mg preWO and 10mg postWO yesterday. Did chest and bi's yesterday and it felt good. Nothing out of this world but a good solid pump.

I will say the taste of cycle support is terrible and I see they now have a pill form out. Legs and squat tonight. Pumped...

 

[Travis]

Also I discontinued use of AP and powerfull for the time being...

 

[Travis]

Almost forgot weight myself this morning and it was 199.5lbs. Getting BF tested Thursday, guessing it will be between 13-16% hopefully no more!

 

[sfearl1]

good luck bro! i'm starting my havoc cycle in three weeks when school is over- i can't wait!! i'll be watching this for sure

 

[Hank Vangut]

Also I discontinued use of AP and powerfull for the time being...

good call. havoc by itself should do it's job. and it sounds like you already have your diet and training down.

are you planning on using the rest of your AP & PF for PCT?
could make for a good post cycle where you keep gaining.

 

[bigschmidt821]

i was under the impression that taking AP during a cycle would actually be extremely beneficial...

"Speaking of testosterone - as a user of steroids and growth hormone, do I need this supplement?

YES! Imagine force feeding your muscles with glucose and amino acids in a super anabolic state while PROMOTING FAT OXIDATION! You would be foolish not to use ANABOLIC-PUMP™ in conjunction with these compounds. Human growth hormone lowers your sensitivity to insulin, therefore ANABOLIC-PUMP™ makes PERFECT sense!"
just a thought

 

[Travis]

I believe Dr. D has recommended using AP with Epi. I would like to give a fair review of havoc as a stand alone since I have used AP before and know that it works for me. I may decide to use it in PCT. I have massfx, and powerfull so I will hopefully find the right use for everything. Im just going into it flexible and since I have a bunch of stuff I am more then prepared.

Weight this morning was 200lbs on the nose. Tonight is just a cardio night. BF will get tested tomorrow night before my workout. I should have pics up tonight hopefully.

 

[Travis]

Weighed in this morning at 203lbs. I think the increase is mainly due to water weight as I have kept the liquids heavy. Maybe not though since last night i hit the cardio pretty hard.

Got the body fat tested before my back workout tonight. 12.8% BF. I predicted between 13-16% so I guess I should be happy, but I dont really want to see that go up much on this cycle...looking only for lean mass.

Back workout wasnt too great tonight. I cant really say I have yet to feel the Havoc doing anything but I'm only at 20mg right now so I'm not expecting much.

One question. The half life of 10mg is 6-8 hours, therefore should I dose once in the morning, and once post workout? Right now I am doing 10mg pre workout and 10mg post (about 3 hours apart). What are the opinions on the optimal dosing??? Thanks

 

[bigschmidt821]

my oppinion is when taken on a workout day take the full dose about an hour before the workout without protein to get the best bloodspike of levels. this is found in the anabolic's 2007 book. i have tested this method and it works the best IMO. ideal especailly on a pulse method. you cant have protein cuz it messes with the absorbtion best on an empty stomach.

 

[Travis]

Thanks big, however I have seen other posts recommending taking it with food (PCF not specified), for better absorption. I have yet to take it on an empty stomach. Perhaps I'll try that tomorrow.

 

[Travis]

Pics

Taken 4-12

 

[Travis]

Weight this morning was 203 again. Today I worked shoulders and tri's. I had some vicious shoulder pumps (front delts specifically), which were definitely to the point of uncomfortable. Tri pump felt good.

I took havoc on a somewhat empty stomach about 60 minutes prior to workout. It still feels as though my workouts have been "unaggressive" if that makes sense. Cardio tomorrow or Sunday with the other day as an off day.

Looking forward to bumping up to 30mg next week and maybe I'll feel it a little more...

 

[bigschmidt821]

how exactly is your dosing going?

 

[Travis]

So far I have been doing 10mg 60 to 90 minutes pre workout. Then 10mg about 3 hours later between PWO shake and first meal after workout.

I reread your earlier post and I see your suggestion was to take the full 20mg pre workout, correct?

To be honest I cant say I have felt anything from 20mg yet, both positive or negative. Of course that doesnt mean anything at this stage (week 1).

 

[bigschmidt821]

when u take it all at once your blood will spike better. i stacked anavar with havoc i took my full dose of anavar in the morning and a full 30 mg of havoc in the pre workout time. it made my intensity go through the rough better than superdorl did.

 

[Travis]

Thanks bro. Since I dont have a lifting day this weekend I'll pry just space them out evenly. Next week I'll try 30mg pre workout on empty stomach.

 

[bigschmidt821]

yea on days that i didnt lift i spreaded it though out the day. but it works great.

 

[Travis]

Took 10mg this morning then 20mg preworkout on an empty stomach. Definitely felt the pump again today. Worked chest and bi's and at one point the chest point was too the point of uncomfortable. No noticeable strength increase however. Weight this morning was 203.

 

[Travis]

Alright bad news. Last night I woke up with what I believe to be strep throat. I know this b/c I had it about a month ago and it feels exactly the same way. I have some Doxycycline available to take however I am not sure this is safe with Havoc??? I know that certain antibiotics are harmful to the liver but I also know that penicillin family is not harmful at all. I believe Doxycycline falls into the penicillin family.

I'll pry post this is the supplement forum to get it more attention....hopefully I dont have to stop this cycle.

 

[Travis]

Okay I think I have the strep thing worked out. Anyways I didnt feel all that fatigued so I went ahead and hit the gym tonight. Started with squat and hit all my regular weights and even did more on the squat swing I use.

My chest and bi's are very sore from the workout yesterday. Feel slightly bigger/massier if there is such a word.

My throat is still killin me and I have a bit of a headache.

Weight this morning was 205.5 which is good.

 

[bigschmidt821]

throw in a @$$ load of vitamins and minerals, they only help you get the full effects of the Havoc anyways

 

[Travis]

Yeah, i have been pounding the vit c. Im totally out of it today. Weighed myself this morning but didnt write it down and dont have a clue what it was. Skipping cardio as my entire body feels achy. Libido has been non existent the last few days. Perhaps due to this illness. Need to recover from this fast....

 

[bigschmidt821]

get lots of rest, try taking a combo of basic ariginine, orthinine, and citrulline right before you get some sleep. it will release your natural groth hormone always helps me get better. get b vitamins with your vitamin c.

 

[LazeDragon]

Grab some
Echinacea and Goldenseal. It works every time for me. In about three days I usually feel better.

 

[Travis]

Thanks for the advice guys. Yesterday I took off from the gym. Felt better but wanted to be fully recovered. It worked cause by the time today rolled around I had so much pent up aggression I just took it out in the gym. It was definitely my best workout since the start of this havoc cycle. Weight this morning was 205 which I dont think is bad considering my appetite during the sick days was not very good. Hopefully the progress starts kicking in faster now. :cheers:

 

[Travis]

Took it easy this weekend trying to kill off the last of this virus. Did chest and bi's today. Felt very aggressive in the gym however I noticed some aches and pains so I am going to start upping the fish/flax oils.

Weight this morning is 204.5 which is a bit disappointing. Hopefully big gains come this week as I am really going to hit is hard. Depending on the final results of this cycle I will do another cycle at a higher dosage. Unless of course I choose to use another product.

 

[Travis]

Weight this morning was 205.5. Last night sleep was a lil sweaty and restless. This also included some back pumps. Forehead is a little more oily then normal.

Just got done doing legs, and strength is definitely up. Squat felt great and now that I'm home I feel as though I could have done more!

I have really upped the fish and flax oil. Wrist issues dont seem to be getting any better. Also I may be paranoid but last night before bed it looked as though I may have some small gyno developing. By morning it looked fine and since I began this cycle I have had zero nipple irritation.

Oh and I believe I have found a good pre workout combo with Havoc. It is 10mg Havoc, 1g Taurine, 1 levithian, and some fish and flax oil. Sounds weird but it has worked well.

 

[Travis]

Did back and traps tonight. Sorta havent done traps in a long time and they felt great. Energy is up. Still wish I would have a better libido and it appears I have a little shutdown starting.

The good news....weight was 209 this morning. Dont think I was carrying to much water weight, so I am pretty happy about that. Im almost to the 4th and final week and I'm excited to up it to 40mg's/day.

 

[Travis]

Weight was still 209 this morning! Did shoulders and tri's tonight. Weights felt good all around and my rear delts felt like they were going to explode. Looking forward to a weekend of rest and ladies....

 

[300Fan]

how are you liking havoc now?

I have 2 bottles coming my way

 

[Travis]

chest and bi's tonight. Felt good but I fatigued a lot faster then I wanted. I should say that I am definitely looking more vascular and bigger. My weight this morning was 208, but I appear bigger and have a better V shape to my upper torso. Really going to push it this week b/c I am up to 40mgs/day. Next time I run this I think I will increase the dosage significantly depending on how PCT goes (assuming my boys and everything else gets back to normal quickly).

I should mention that my nipples are a lot more puffy. I dont believe its gyno however...? I have no irritation, itching, or pain in the nipple area. Just puffiness. Should this be a conern???

 

[Travis]

Anyone on the gyno question? I am not overly concerned about it....maybe I should be though considering this compound claims to eliminate/reduce gyno, not cause it.

 

[Travis]

Did legs tonight. Things felt very good.

Squats ATG
Warmup 135
185 x 10
195 x 10
205 x 10
215 x 8

paramount Swing maching thingy (love this machine for quads)
Warmup
Each set using a slow 3-5 second eccentric
160 x 8
160 x 8
160 x 8
160 x 7

Seated Ham Curl
3-5 second eccentric
half stack x 8
half stack x 8
half stack x 8
half stack x 6

Seat leg extensions
3-5 sec eccentric
half stack x 8
half stack x 8
half stack x 8
toast by this time....No mas

Seated calf raise (concentrating hard on that mind/muscle connection)
55 x 12
55 x 12
55 x 12
55 x 12

Weight this morning was 209. Dosed 10mg around 8:30 am, 1pm, 5pm, and I take another 10mg in about an hour.

 

[300Fan]

I should mention that my nipples are a lot more puffy. I dont believe its gyno however...? I have no irritation, itching, or pain in the nipple area. Just puffiness. Should this be a conern???

I was told its normal to have a lil puff when in a PH

PCT will elimate it all though

 

[Travis]

I was told its normal to have a lil puff when in a PH

post cycle therapy will elimate it all though

Yes, I've read the same. Pry just bein paranoid.

Weight this morning was 209.5. Did 30 minutes of cardio tonight (blah) and some light abs. Slowly going to try and transition PCT into a short cutting cycle (non hormonal products only). I'll post my stack a little later...

 

[Travis]

Tonight I hammered the back and a lil traps. Lately I have just been focusing on the mind/muscle connection as recommended after talking with a trainer friend of mine for an extended period of time.

Hang Cleans
Focusing hard on the pull
125 x 8
125 x 8
125 x 8
125 x 8

Chin ups
BW x 5
BW x 5
BW x 5
BW x 5

Bent over bb row
(squeeze and hold at the top)
105 x 10
105 x 10
105 x 10

Lat Pull Down
(focusing on pullin elbows straight back/down)
half stack x 10
half stack x 10
half stack x 10

Seated Row
(slow and steady wins the race)
lil less than half stack x 10
same x 10
same x 10

DB shrugs
BB shrugs

Weight this morning was 210. Sorta felt some back pumps still not nearly bad at all. Nearing the end of this cycle :-<


I mentioned my next stack will be for cutting and I will transition into it from PCT. I thought it was going to be some new innovative products on the market but I have decided to keep it old school with only some AP and bulk sesathin. I still think AP is the most effective product I have ever used. Seems to give me the same results as a low carb diet however I can eat carbs! Whats betta than that....nothing in my mind.

 

[Travis]

Almost forgot to update. Last night I did some shoulders and tri's. All felt good. I appear to be more vascular especially in my arms. Triceps are sore today which is good b/c I have had trouble hitting them lately. Only a couple more days on.

 

[Guest]

Tonight I hammered the back and a lil traps. Lately I have just been focusing on the mind/muscle connection as recommended after talking with a trainer friend of mine for an extended period of time.

Hang Cleans
Focusing hard on the pull
125 x 8
125 x 8
125 x 8
125 x 8

Chin ups
BW x 5
BW x 5
BW x 5
BW x 5

Bent over bb row
(squeeze and hold at the top)
105 x 10
105 x 10
105 x 10

Lat Pull Down
(focusing on pullin elbows straight back/down)
half stack x 10
half stack x 10
half stack x 10

Seated Row
(slow and steady wins the race)
lil less than half stack x 10
same x 10
same x 10

DB shrugs
BB shrugs

Weight this morning was 210. Sorta felt some back pumps still not nearly bad at all. Nearing the end of this cycle :-<


I mentioned my next stack will be for cutting and I will transition into it from post cycle therapy. I thought it was going to be some new innovative products on the market but I have decided to keep it old school with only some AP and bulk sesathin. I still think AP is the most effective product I have ever used. Seems to give me the same results as a low carb diet however I can eat carbs! Whats betta than that....nothing in my mind.

AP is new school and will super charge old school techniques.

 

[Travis]

Alright today was my last day of havoc and I weighted in at 208.5 (edit...put 108.5, lol). My beginning weight was 199, so not counting water I at least gained a few pounds. I also appear much leaner/cut especially in my arms and stomach. Anyways.....pictures shortly.

 

[Travis]

123

 

[Travis]

couple more...

 

[Travis]

Just some comments about the pics.

Sorta look the same in those pics dont I? I actually think that i appear a lot more cut now then the beginning of the cycle. But not in those pics for some reason. Unfortunately my upper chest still looks lagging. I really have spent the last 2 months trying to work this out and I am still not seeing a ton of improvement. Oh well. I'll keep at it.

I wish i would have taken pics of my back and legs. Its so hard photographing yourself with a cell phone though!

 

[Travis]

Did legs tonight....wow my quads were full today. Also first weigh in after cycle and I was up to 210.5! That could obviously be some carry over but nonetheless....

I took two MassFX today. Anyone know if Massfx should be taken with food or with an empty stomach??? I have taken BAM before but I know this is a little different.

 

[Travis]

Anyone on the MassFX question?

Also just an update PCT is going well. I am still weighing in at 210.5 this morning and I am not sure if it is the combination of AP and Powerfull but the pumps in the gym have been awesome.....awesome to the point of painful specifically in my lats and bi's.

 

[Travis]

Thought i would post more good news. Weight went up some more! At 112.5 now and it doesnt appear to be more fat. Holla

 

[celc5]

Anyone on the MassFX question?

Also just an update post cycle therapy is going well. I am still weighing in at 210.5 this morning and I am not sure if it is the combination of AP and Powerfull but the pumps in the gym have been awesome.....awesome to the point of painful specifically in my lats and bi's.

Thanks for logging. You mentioned that AP is one of you staple supps. When you took it before, did you stack it as you are now? Can you compare your MassFx + AP + PF pumps now to when you used AP (+whatever your stack was)?