Mpkonig's Continuing struggle for Fat Loss (Posiedon, X-force and More)

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    If you can still find it, Avant Labs Absolved would likely be a great addition to your stack. It works great on VAT, or the kind of fat you find beneath your stomach, behind the subcutaneous fat. It works great at very quickly reducing your waistline, no matter how high your bodyfat is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    If you can still find it, Avant Labs Absolved would likely be a great addition to your stack. It works great on VAT, or the kind of fat you find beneath your stomach, behind the subcutaneous fat. It works great at very quickly reducing your waistline, no matter how high your bodyfat is.
    hmm....interesting...i take it that has been discontinued??
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    i just searched and havent found much...but found some sort of Avant gel called FL7??? never heard of it...has something to do with fatloss though
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    i just searched and havent found much...but found some sort of Avant gel called FL7??? never heard of it...has something to do with fatloss though
    I'm not familiar with FL7. Sesamin works VERY well on those with higher BF. I had a few of my clients of it and they had great results with 1.5-2 x's the recommended dose. /the only side...as I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, is that your muscles will seem flatter. They fill out as soon as you lower the dosage or discontinue use.

    Workin
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    i just searched and havent found much...but found some sort of Avant gel called FL7??? never heard of it...has something to do with fatloss though
    Ab-solve was 7KETO-DHEA in a transdermal carrier. Us to here a lot about it back a few years ago before they discontinued it. You can still get it, just have to by the bulk powdered from some place and a trans carrier and vola you have your own ab-solve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    Ab-solve was 7KETO-DHEA in a transdermal carrier. Us to here a lot about it back a few years ago before they discontinued it. You can still get it, just have to by the bulk powdered from some place and a trans carrier and vola you have your own ab-solve.
    The difficult part in making your own ab-solved would be in sourcing the proper transdermal gel for the application. It was a localized gel, if I recall Avant used to sell it as Gel#3, however I don't see it on their website anymore.
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    Good point, I forgot about the localized deleveiry method. If worse came to worse one could always add a little 7Keto to there LU bottle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    Good point, I forgot about the localized deleveiry method. If worse came to worse one could always add a little 7Keto to there LU bottle.
    That might not work either, as I recall the molecular makeup of 7-keto powder isn't suitable for the carrier in Lipoderm, and thusly the two gels were different. Perhaps we could take this to the Avant subforum to find out more information straight from the source.
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    here is the writeup on that FL7 stuff....maybe you lab guys can make heads or tales of it.


    FL7: The Revolution Has Begun
    3-Acetyl-7-Oxo DHEA, a safe and natural metabolite of DHEA, is an effective agent in suppressing excessive cortisol production while also stimulating the thermogenic enzymes of the liver, optimizing thyroid function and increasing BMR (basal metabolic rate). 3-Acetyl-7-Oxo DHEA is a powerful tool for inhibiting fat accrual and achieving a favorable body composition. Its strong anti-catabolic properties and cortisol-blunting effect make FL7 an excellent adjunct for anyone wishing to maintain lean mass while dieting, or when cycling off Prohormones. FL7 provides all of 3-Acetyl-7-Oxo DHEA's metabolic benefits via Avent Labs' revolutionary hydroalcoholic gel, making it far more potent than its competitors.

    FL7 and Glucocorticoids
    Cortisol’s role in the body is often greatly misunderstood in the bodybuilding community. To grasp its role in body composition, one needs to understand glucocorticoid biosynthesis/equilibrium. Glucocorticoids exist in humans in two primary forms, the inactive cortisone and the active (and dreaded) cortisol. These exist in the body, in a constant state of flux back and forth, depending on the enzyme situation.

    What is of note is that the two isoenzymes that convert one to the other have vastly differing concentrations in different tissues. For example, in adipose tissue, only the first isomer of 11-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11b-HSD1), is found.

    11b-HSD1 generally acts as a reductive enzyme, converting Cortisone to Cortisol – it can also act as a dehydrogenase in other tissue, but in human adipose tissue, it is always oxoreductive in the adipose and liver. Increased activity of this enzyme is implicated in some forms of obesity in both animals and humans.

    On the other hand, 11b-HSD2 generally acts as a dehydrogenase, converting cortisol to inactive cortisone. It is not particularly important for our purposed, beyond that, so we will go in no more detail.
    Keep the above in the back of your mind, as it is going to have a good deal of significance that we will go into later….

    So, what is the point of this?? FL7’s magic ingredient, 7-oxo-DHEA, decreases 11b-HSD activity.

    Glucocorticoids and Adipose Tissue
    So, how is the cortisol factor related to fat loss? Adipogenesis involves differention of preadipocytes into adipocytes. Cortisol inhibits proliferation of preadipocytes, which tips the balance towards differentiation. In other words, cortisol promotes the formation of new fat cells. And, as we know, empty adipose cells make wonderful sponges for tryglecerides. In addition to this, all cells in the body turnover, meaning they die and are replaced. If we inhibit the formation of new fat cells (via inhibiting cortisol activity in the fat cell), given that fat cell death remains constant, we would have ourselves a very modest, on-going liposuction effect.

    FL7's Advantages vs. Oral
    Why not just take it orally?? There are two primary (and significant) reasons:

    Number one is increased bioavailability. You get far more 7-oxo in your system, mg/mg than with oral. I'm sure our gel's reputation for improving the efficacy of steroids versus oral usage (i.e. ONE+. ONE, 4-ADerm) should be all most of you need to know.... well, at least until I get the real data up in a few hours.
    Remember when I said to keep the 11b-HSD isoenzyme situation in the back of your mind??? Well, that is the second thing. With oral usage, we suppress 11b-HSD one activity in the liver. This increases dehydrogenase activity in the body, lowering systemic cortisol (good right?? Nope.), which will increase ACTH activity in response, to try to keep cortisol elevated. And, with 11b-HSD1 suppressed, this newly released cortisol gets sent down the cortisone side of the isoenzyme equilibrium.

    WTF does this mean??? There will be an increase in systemic corticosterone to serve as substrate for formation of the dreaded cortisol in the oxoreductase-only adipose tissue. Oh, and did I mention that obese people are already prone to this phenomenon because of increased peripheral levels of 11b-hsd1 and 5-alpha reductase (which also deactivates cortisol).

    FL7 Supplement Facts
    Serving Size 4-9 pumps
    Servings Per Container 40-60
    Amount Per Serving
    3-Acetyl-7-Oxo-Dehydroepiandrosterone 50 mg
    FL7 Other Ingredients: Isopropyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Octyl Salicylate, Triglyceride Complex, Water, D-Limonene, Carbomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    That might not work either, as I recall the molecular makeup of 7-keto powder isn't suitable for the carrier in Lipoderm, and thusly the two gels were different. Perhaps we could take this to the Avant subforum to find out more information straight from the source.
    Hmm, makes sense as I should of thought of that before. 7keto is a lipophilic compound where as yohm and caffiene are hydrophilic so of course the carrier to dissolve them would have to be different.

    mp the basic function of the fl7 seems to be like other anti-cort supps blocking or blunting cort production to decrease adipogenesis.
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    Day 7 Cont.

    20 Minutes HIIT cardio at 40/30 split

    Today was arms......i love these days.....but i did notice today that i felt really weak...which means im pretty much depleted which is good ......cardio wooped my ass today....puddle of sweat started to form under the eliptical...i love it!!!

    Feel warmer today than usual...im wondering if there are parts of this stack that need to build up in your system in order to have full effects?? anyways...all i know is that i sweated like a pig today ........ahh....feels good...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    Day 7 Cont.

    20 Minutes HIIT cardio at 40/30 split

    Today was arms......i love these days.....but i did notice today that i felt really weak...which means im pretty much depleted which is good ......cardio wooped my ass today....puddle of sweat started to form under the eliptical...i love it!!!

    Feel warmer today than usual...im wondering if there are parts of this stack that need to build up in your system in order to have full effects?? anyways...all i know is that i sweated like a pig today ........ahh....feels good...
    So what's the plan now that your completely depleted? Stay that way for a few sessions? Or Carb up for a jump start?

    Workin
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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005 View Post
    So what's the plan now that your completely depleted? Stay that way for a few sessions? Or Carb up for a jump start?

    Workin
    knowing how my body is...i think it would be best to suffer for a few sessions....my body is stubborn painfully stubborn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    knowing how my body is...i think it would be best to suffer for a few sessions....my body is stubborn painfully stubborn
    I was afraid you'd say that ...been there, done that, NOT FUN....but it is effective! Be sure your getting a TON of protein and EFA's. A BCAA supp would be very beneficial right now as well.

    Be sure your very in tune with your body at this point...your walking a fine line of loosing fat and/or lean muscle mass.

    I would only stay depleted for 2 days at the most...then have a healthy carb up meal like:1 cup oatmeal and 1 small sweet Potato. That should begin to replenish your muscles nicely. Do that about every other day and you may find your body's "Sweet zone" or "window" when it can actually burn body fat and build muscle

    Keep us updated

    Workin
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    Day 8

    20 min fasted Mixed cardio (first 10 minutes...slow med fast and back to slow. Second 10 minutes HIIT cardio)

    Today was Back and had a very energetic workout....i also did 15 minutes of fast paced cardio after workout.

    And what do ya know...its actually sunny and mild in Florida so i actually went out and layed in the sun for about 45 minutes...woohoo....gotta work on that tan

    Everything is going well....even though im pretty damn depleted....i felt good today....i didnt do full blown HIIT this morning because my legs didnt feel like they were up for it....but its good to take a day off in between to recover and keep your body guessing i guess.
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    Day 9

    20 Min Fasted HIIT cardio (40/30)

    Today was chest.....everything went well....felt a bit under the weather....for the past 3 to 4 weeks pretty much everyone around me was sick and they all had the same thing...and finally sunday night monday morning i finally started feeling myself coming down with something....today was kinda an Iffy day.....i didnt want to get out of bed this morning...but i felt guilty laying in bed..so i got up and worked my ass off...hehe....hey..whatever works

    Had another Great flush from posiedon this morning....maybe cause im sick it flushing all the crap out of my body that accumulated overnight....who knows... posiedon is some good stuff though.....

    I also upped my dosage of X-force yesterday to 3 caps in the morning and 1 cap in the afternoon.....noticed more of an effect....this is a very clean, feel good stim.
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    There seems to be a bug going around or something because quit a few people around me have been getting sick as well. Hate to hear about the cold mp, Poseidon should help keep it at bay. Just get the proper rest if you feel like and stay on the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    Day 9

    20 Min Fasted HIIT cardio (40/30)

    Today was chest.....everything went well....felt a bit under the weather....for the past 3 to 4 weeks pretty much everyone around me was sick and they all had the same thing...and finally sunday night monday morning i finally started feeling myself coming down with something....today was kinda an Iffy day.....i didnt want to get out of bed this morning...but i felt guilty laying in bed..so i got up and worked my ass off...hehe....hey..whatever works

    Had another Great flush from posiedon this morning....maybe cause im sick it flushing all the crap out of my body that accumulated overnight....who knows... posiedon is some good stuff though.....

    I also upped my dosage of X-force yesterday to 3 caps in the morning and 1 cap in the afternoon.....noticed more of an effect....this is a very clean, feel good stim.
    There is something going around...especially down here in Florida. Everyone seems to be under the weather. I have been lucky enough to avoid it, but woke up this morning with a scratchy throat...doubling up on Poseidon today

    Excellent commitment mpkonig...just be sure you allow yourself to get enough rest so this illness doesn't get the best of you.

    Workin
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    what kind of increments should i be doing....should i do the lower increments like seconds...or should i do higher ....i just did some HIIT today for my cardio this morning and i tried 15 seconds high..30 seconds low...and it didnt seem like it was doing much cardio wise...so i jumped it to 30 seconds high..30 seconds low and it seemed to work much better....any thoughts would be helpful.

    EDIT: Im also doing my cardio on an eliptical...so going really fast is kinda hard without sacrificing form, but i do increase the resistance on my eliptical when i do HIIT just for the extra work it takes.
    a 40/30 split would work quite well I think....give that a shot. Just be honest with yourself about the high points...you should be giving 110% with nothing left to give during those points in the workout...then back off for 30 seconds, catch your breath...and then jump right back into it! It's not easy,as you know, but you'll be glad you made the choice to do it and not compromise! In fact... I applaud you ;-)

    Workin
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    Days 10-13

    NOTHING...was sick and felt unmotivated as hell....still took my supps...but just didnt do much...had a hard time eating even 3 meals a day....so...kinda sucks
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    Day 14


    20 min HIIT cardio Fasted

    Today will be ARMS......i had taken off the last 4 days cause of being sick..i feel much better today even though my cardio is not 100% yet...i struggled a little with the HIIT today.....Lungs and throat dont feel completely normal yet

    I Have also recieved my sample pack of LEVIATHAN and will be dosing them today instead of the X-Force to see how these badboys work...ive heard some good things about this product and want to see for myself and maybe run it as my base thermo for my next 4 week stack instead of AMP or X-force. So far...i took 2 Leviathan's about 40 minutes ago and im noticing a nice warmup....which is good...considering ive been taking 3 x-force and probably not getting this strong of a thermo response....so it looking promising so far...the real test for Leviathan is when i take it per workout....i hope it is everything ive read it to be.

    Here are my stats...i could only do weight and waist measurements because my girlfriend is being a deuchebag...but honestly...those are the only measurements i care about at the moment. This is cold in the morning without taking a nice dump I always seem to go less with a low carb diet (probably due to such high protein content) but for only working out 3 days last week....i was impressed and suprised...here are the stats

    Weight 279 (-1lb)
    Waist 46 (-3/4)

    not bad for only doing 3 days of work...and really only one was full hearted as the other 2 days i was feeling the cold coming on. Also...weight should be lower..like i said..im probably a little backed up (nothing painful) and im planning to do a refeed tomorrow (first one of this 4 weeks) and will be eating a good about of fiber so it should clean me out nicely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    Day 14


    20 min HIIT cardio Fasted

    Today will be ARMS......i had taken off the last 4 days cause of being sick..i feel much better today even though my cardio is not 100% yet...i struggled a little with the HIIT today.....Lungs and throat dont feel completely normal yet

    I Have also recieved my sample pack of LEVIATHAN and will be dosing them today instead of the X-Force to see how these badboys work...ive heard some good things about this product and want to see for myself and maybe run it as my base thermo for my next 4 week stack instead of AMP or X-force. So far...i took 2 Leviathan's about 40 minutes ago and im noticing a nice warmup....which is good...considering ive been taking 3 x-force and probably not getting this strong of a thermo response....so it looking promising so far...the real test for Leviathan is when i take it per workout....i hope it is everything ive read it to be.

    Here are my stats...i could only do weight and waist measurements because my girlfriend is being a deuchebag...but honestly...those are the only measurements i care about at the moment. This is cold in the morning without taking a nice dump I always seem to go less with a low carb diet (probably due to such high protein content) but for only working out 3 days last week....i was impressed and suprised...here are the stats

    Weight 279 (-1lb)
    Waist 46 (-3/4)

    not bad for only doing 3 days of work...and really only one was full hearted as the other 2 days i was feeling the cold coming on. Also...weight should be lower..like i said..im probably a little backed up (nothing painful) and im planning to do a refeed tomorrow (first one of this 4 weeks) and will be eating a good about of fiber so it should clean me out nicely.
    Be sure your water intake is adequate during this time as well...should greatly help with...."keeping you regular"

    Workin
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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005 View Post
    Be sure your water intake is adequate during this time as well...should greatly help with...."keeping you regular"

    Workin
    yeah...dont worry about that...i drink like a fish.... so far i am liking this leviathan......gets me heated up on just 2 pills...i likey alot
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    yeah...dont worry about that...i drink like a fish.... so far i am liking this leviathan......gets me heated up on just 2 pills...i likey alot
    Good to hear Leviathan looks very promising!

    Workin
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    Day 14 Cont.

    Workout was UNBELIEVABLE!!! Whatever they put in that Leviathan.....whoa momma.....i Fargin love it!!! This stuff got me crazy during my workout...extreme focus....energy...and to top it all off...i was in a pretty damn goood mood most of the day (which doesnt happen to often )

    I hate to say it...but the samples i took just sold me on the product....no doubt about it...i got more response out of those 4 little pills (2x2) than out of alot of other stuff at twice the dosage.....AND it helps build lean mass (or at least helps you keep it) but considering what i have been reading....it helps with upping the weights and size is sure to follow.....wow....good job Palo Alto.....i dont think ive been this excited about a product ever None the less....it WILL be taking the place of AMP/X-force in my next stack.....

    Only little downfall is that i did have a slight crash after the 2nd set of pills.....probably one of those supps where you have to take 2 in the morning and just one in the afternoon to ease yourself down?? Plus i will be stacking it with HEAT so i will probably only need 1 in the AM and 1 In the PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    Day 14 Cont.

    Workout was UNBELIEVABLE!!! Whatever they put in that Leviathan.....whoa momma.....i Fargin love it!!! This stuff got me crazy during my workout...extreme focus....energy...and to top it all off...i was in a pretty damn goood mood most of the day (which doesnt happen to often )

    I hate to say it...but the samples i took just sold me on the product....no doubt about it...i got more response out of those 4 little pills (2x2) than out of alot of other stuff at twice the dosage.....AND it helps build lean mass (or at least helps you keep it) but considering what i have been reading....it helps with upping the weights and size is sure to follow.....wow....good job Palo Alto.....i dont think ive been this excited about a product ever None the less....it WILL be taking the place of AMP/X-force in my next stack.....

    Only little downfall is that i did have a slight crash after the 2nd set of pills.....probably one of those supps where you have to take 2 in the morning and just one in the afternoon to ease yourself down?? Plus i will be stacking it with HEAT so i will probably only need 1 in the AM and 1 In the PM.
    1 in the AM and 1 in the PM sound like a much better starting point...especially if stacking it with HEAT. I'll be interested to see how these 2 products stack together. I've been a long time fan of HEAT and it looks like Leviathan will make a good addition

    Great, detailed log BTW!

    Workin
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    Day 15

    20 min HIIT cardio

    Today was back .....but because i had my refeed today (tuesday) i did my back workout and one set of every other muscle group just to get that nice pump....and i did....felt great...
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    Quote Originally Posted by HairyLarry35 View Post
    Sorry for posting so much and clouding up your log... I just like to comment a lot :-D



    Cut and paste from BB.com:

    During 10-15 second bursts, there is a very small amount of lactic acid produced and rest periods of 30 seconds to a minute will provide complete recovery of the Adenosine Triphosphate-Creatine Phosphate (ATP-CP) system. During efforts of more than 10-15 seconds, a large amount of lactic acid is produced and such efforts are extremely taxing on both the athlete's muscles and their Central Nervous System (CNS).
    HIIT during a Cutting Phase:

    * 500 Calories under maintenance daily
    * High Protein (40% of total calories)
    * Low Carbs (20% of total calories)
    * High Fat (40% of total calories)

    It has been proven in studies that during a low carbohydrate and high fat diet, the oxidation of fat is increased during exercise, especially cardio such as HIIT (more fat is burned). Additionally, fat is a much more highly concentrated source of energy than carbohydrates.

    "A review by Hultman (1995) found that during a diet where carbs are restricted and a lot of fat is consumed, up to 70% of the energy requirement (even during high intensity activities) comes from the oxidation of fat (where during a high carbs diet, such activities would derive 80-90% of the energy from glycogen)." (Thibaudeau)

    Sample: 2000 Calories Daily
    * 200 Grams of Protein
    * 100 Grams of Carbs
    * 90 Grams of Fat

    Excellent post, this makes more sense to me now, as i was doing Max-OT style cardio for like 2 weeks now and noticed soem nice fatloss but it was REALLY depleting my glycogen stores to the point that earlier this week my hammer incline press was DOWN 40lbs!! Personally i think i may just stick with the slower, longer duration cardio and up training volume.
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    Day 16

    20 minutes regular cardio

    chest day.....everything went well...
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    day 17

    20 min HIIT cardio

    Today was shoulders and my shoulders still have pains when i do exercises....they are not as bad as they were...but still hinder me somewhat....hopefully continuing with Super Cissus will help out in the long run
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    Day 18

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    Today is trunk and legs and it will suck like usual...thats all the update i really need
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpkonig View Post
    Day 18

    No Cardio

    Today is trunk and legs and it will suck like usual...thats all the update i really need
    Hang in there mpkonig

    Workin
  

  
 

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