Havoc...in on the action!

[MaximumSecurity]

Yo bros!

My first post here. I got interested on the havoc buzz on BN and everyone said AM had some post running on it. More I read the more I like how the board was run so decided to camp out here for a while. Been taking a lot in so thought I might give some time of myself as well. Let's start w/stats...

41 yrs. young.
9% BF @ 5'11", 190Ibs.
lifting regular for 8 yrs.
Bench: 245x6, Dead 345x10, Squat (bodybuilder style 315x10, PL style 365x6).

I know that does not look so impressive to be working out for that long, but what you need to keep in mind is that in summer of 98' I weighed 155. I basically just jogged back then and visited the gym spuradically to do some bench in poor form. My post workout drinks consisted of a six pack of beer back then!

I didn't start turning things around until July of 98. Since then I have only been less than serious for about a year if I take inventory off the top of my head.

Keeping a long story short, been around the block as far as gear, ph, and butt load of supplements. Gear, PH's, NOexplode and creatine worked well for me. Other 'hot' new items like X factor and JW with minimal success if at all.

I started taking havoc @ 30 mgs ed on the 7th of this month. I''l starting recording lifts, sides, and any changes after Monday since I figure this havoc needs time to ramp up before any legit reports start coming in.

I would place my caloric intake somewhere between 2-2500kcals a day. I would like to say 3000+ cals, and I know I got a sermon coming to me about eating more which is justified, but I have a thing for wanting to look lean and get a little depressed when it disappears. I would like to 'lean bulk' but that is a trick to find the precision for such an endeavor.

I'm only going to run havoc for two weeks then run the 6oxo. Short cycles have proved the retainable ones from past experience so that is what I stick with.

See ya in the gym! MS.

 

[dsade]

Welcome...subscribed

 

[yeahright]

Best of luck.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 4:

Leg day: My initial set was a little lower than my usual on squat 315 pounds (8 reps instead of 10), but my successive sets were hanging tougher than usual (4 sets...8 reps).

Probably not as motivated as previous leg workouts as to why this occured. However if I add up my totals it would appear that I had increased a few rep from my last squat workout.

Last squat workout 315x10x8x6x5 =29;

Today: 315x8x8x8x8 = 32.

Knees felt a little of an ache initially, but went away once I warmed up.

I did 3 more sets with squat at various lower weight and 7 sets for back, but don't have comparitive notes so posting such will not be helpful that I can see.

Weight still hanging @ 190; diet remains the same.

Yesterday, day 3, I felt pumped without hitting the weights. I like the way I have looked in the mirror past few days. Muscles look fuller without smoothing out my definition.

 

[xtraflossy]

Nice :thumbsup:

VERY interested to see what this can do for you.
I know at least ONE person who would also be interested in how your PCT goes after the cycle.
I might as well get it out of the way now (cause I'll ask eventually,.. always do:twisted: ) Wow's the sex drive? Increased a little, lot, diminished no change....?

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Labido definately has not increased. Can't say for sure if it has decreased.

I take lavitra anyway for same reason i like a pre-workout supp before workout. So any decrease in labido may be hard to detect in my case.

I would expect labido to decrease because of the nature of the drug. Other articles and my own short experience shows havoc to have trenbolone type characteristics.

 

[xtraflossy]

Labido definately has not increased. Can't say for sure if it has decreased.

I take lavitra anyway for same reason i like a pre-workout supp before workout. So any decrease in labido may be hard to detect in my case.

I would expect labido to decrease because of the nature of the drug. Other articles and my own short experience shows havoc to have trenbolone type characteristics.

two questions:
Can you explain the Lavitra thing to me? (you can PM me that if you want)- am I understanding that you take Levitra AS your pre W/O supp?

What charectoristics specificly have you found to be "tren-like"?

 

[BigMattTx]

thanks for doing the log and good look with wreaking HAVOC in the gym

 

[MaximumSecurity]

xtraflossy,

The lavitra is an erectile dysfunction drug. Not that i really need it, but it enhances sex. Just like NOexplode would enhance a workout in the gym. I don't depend on a strong libido to perform. Instead I just pop a lavitra. Being an ex-juicer (real deal stuff) I have had off and on problems in the past. Now I just take lavitra by habit. Thats why I say i'm probably not the best candidate to say one way or another on the effects havoc would have on libido.

I say havoc has tren characteristics because of the look I'm getting in the mirror. Tren I took in the past gave me a lean appearance, but muscle fullness as well. Not all anabolics necessary make you 'look' better. Many simply bloat you up to look like a toad.

Tren will knock libido in the dirt if not stacked with test. So would others (deca, winny). That is why i'm suspect as to havoc doing the same. I could be wrong on that, but I would definately be surprised if anyone actually increases libido on havoc.

 

[dsade]

I had no libido problems on Havoc.

Also, Erectile function and libido are WAY different.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Yeah one is the want the other is the ability

 

[Zombie]

really intrested, i would like to try some havoc later on. Subscribed

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Libido can be a complicated thing when trying to gage its strength /weakness.

As for me there is a strong correlation between want and ability. I tend to be pretty good at things I want. I also have been known to convince myself to want things that I found later I really did not want after all.

Sexual problems occured post cycles from old once off PCT. The problems were more pronounced at some times than others. Even after I had got back to normal I experienced performance anxiety due to past failures. Anxiety has a way of competing for 'desire'. Lavitra turned into a crutch, hence my use of the drug today.

I'm glad to here the gentleman above report 'no problems' in that department from using havoc.

I know you guys are a lot more interested in Havoc than what is going on between my legs so i'll cut the crap and get back to business...

Day 5!

Woke up this morning and was up 2 pounds. It was like BAM! You would think i went to a midnight buffet. Not so. Diet, if anything, I ate less than usual yesterday. Appetite sucked, and that is not unusual for me.

I'll be doing bench this morning. I'll be back in a few to report my results. Later bros!

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 5:

As stated above i gained two pounds over night.

Bench last Friday: 245x6, 255x3, 245x4

Bench today: 245x6, 255x4, 245x5.

Just like squats yesterday, my improvements seem to be found in successive sets. My first set was without a spotter. I was hoping the regulars would be in the gym today, but I guess they had other fish to fry. On my second and third set I borred the assistance of some guy doing some form of transcendental meditation. I figure at least I'll get that 'alone and stuck' worry out of my head and concentrate on pushing my hardest. Seem to work!

Last week after bench my lifts with 70 pound weighted dips was 4 reps. Today it was up to 5. So today; 70x5x5x5 on weighted dips.

Behind the head standing military press 135x9x8x6

Minor increase in size and strength after only 5 days. Not bad.

 

[xtraflossy]

xtraflossy,

The lavitra is an erectile dysfunction drug. Not that i really need it, but it enhances sex. Just like NOexplode would enhance a workout in the gym. I don't depend on a strong libido to perform. Instead I just pop a lavitra. Being an ex-juicer (real deal stuff) I have had off and on problems in the past. Now I just take lavitra by habit. Thats why I say i'm probably not the best candidate to say one way or another on the effects havoc would have on libido.

I say havoc has tren characteristics because of the look I'm getting in the mirror. Tren I took in the past gave me a lean appearance, but muscle fullness as well. Not all anabolics necessary make you 'look' better. Many simply bloat you up to look like a toad.

Tren will knock libido in the dirt if not stacked with test. So would others (deca, winny). That is why i'm suspect as to havoc doing the same. I could be wrong on that, but I would definately be surprised if anyone actually increases libido on havoc.

Thanks. I was curious as to the effects of this and sex drive (for me, then feeling horney most of the times = increased libedo :twisted: ) becasue Havoc is more of an Anti-e then it is anything else. Where tren is a progestin, as with deca, .. and you know, all other things that are sure to keep your soilder "at ease".
Some antie-e's will kill libedo (by supressing too much estrogen. Some wont (6-brad and the others).

From MY understanding, Havoc acts on the estrogen receptor without producing an estrogen response to that attachment (or something like that,.. I know Ive posted that from a study somewhere on this board).

The libedo theory can go either way (TO ME, not having taken it, and just a mental excercise).
If it reduces estro too much,.. then a drop can occure.
Or does it exirt a test raising effect becasue of it.

My curiousity also lies in Havoc's effect's on GH, IGF, and glut-4.
(leading to maybe taking a slightly aromatizing compound along with?)
lol- just going off as to explain my question.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

xtraflossy,

I never could figure out the estrogen suppression causing a rise in test. I thought I did at one time. However back when I took 1AD I had some blood work done and both estogen and test were suppressed. This was taken while on my 1AD cycle and like everyone else my lifts were up.

Then you have stuff like 6oxo that suppresses estrogen and in turn raises test from the estrogen suppression.

Sexual desire is mostly a state of mind IMO.

 

[xtraflossy]

xtraflossy,

I never could figure out the estrogen suppression causing a rise in test. I thought I did at one time. However back when I took 1AD I had some blood work done and both estogen and test were suppressed. This was taken while on my 1AD cycle and like everyone else my lifts were up.

Then you have stuff like 6oxo that suppresses estrogen and in turn raises test from the estrogen suppression.

Sexual desire is mostly a state of mind IMO.

1-AD isn't EXACTLY test, but your body recognizes it as hormone-like.

The estrogen suppression makes your body try to produce more estrogen (of course,.. right- maintain the balance). One way your body makes estrogen is through the aromatization of testosterone. So, supressing estrogen makes your body ramp up test levels so it can aromatize. -but if your using an aromatose inhibitor... you get the idea.

Libedo I beleive has more to do with hormone balance then it does having high test alone.
That's why when you totally supress estrogen, and your test levels are high (tring to give your body something to aromatize) you can still have no sex drive.
*There needs to besome estrogen in the mix

When you took the 1AD your body noticed the extra hormone levels and reduced it's own production. This is basicly done through many mechanisms, but it also kinda works in the ways I explained above- cept in reverse-kinda
When your body doenst need to produce test, (becasue your taking a hormone simular to testosterone: 1-AD) ,there is less test to aromatize. So there is less estrogen.

Basicly, the use each other to balance each other
- when one (test) becomes supressed, your body compensates by producing more of the other.
Supress estrogen/ = test raises to allow for aromaxation (using an AI)
Supress Test (with expgenious hormones) and there is less to form estrogen, along with your body tring to maintain SOME balance of Test/Estrogen ratio

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 7:

I would also like to say Day 6 was a day off from weights. Played tennis instead. Upon waking on both Day 6 & 7 I weighed 191. I weighed 192 on day 5.

One week on cycle up one pound. does not seem like much, but it is ususual for me to gain over 190 and hold it for any amount of days. SD would have had me up by 3-4 pounds by now at 20mgs. Of course the quality of that weight raises a big qustion mark.

Workout Day 7:

bench 255 x5x4x3. Not sure if that is an improvement. I usually start w/245 and do 6 before I move to 255.

weighted dips...70x6x6x5...yes, this is an improvement since day 5 which was 5x5x5.

flys 80x7x5x4...very long time since I've done more than 6 reps on 80 Ib flys.

These were not all the lifts I've done, but these are the only ones that I keep a comparison from my last workouts.

So far my opinion of havoc is that results tend to be more immediate than say dramatic during the first week.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 8:

Still holding @ 191 pounds.

Deadlifts 365x6x5x4; 315x10x8x6; 225x12


Comments: Very good deadlift day! I can't say for sure exactly how much an improvement since it has been several months since I would even attempt 3 sets of 365. I just know it is an improvement based on that fact alone.

Strength kicking into high gear on day 8!

 

[Beau]

I had no libido problems on Havoc.

Also, Erectile function and libido are WAY different.

As I have heard it described:

ED = No lead in the pencil, but want to scribe.

No libido = no desire to scribe.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

In that case i can honestly say there are no libido problems, or e.d.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

lol..May I make a request? Let's try to make only 1/2 of the next 15 posts in this fellas log about his, or conversely, your penis!

 

[xtraflossy]

Some people just can't stand it when there's penis talk going on and it's not about theirs :ntome:

 

[Beau]

Note to self: PM moderators suggesting they establish a new "Penis Talk" forum.

 

[dsade]

Note to self: PM moderators suggesting they establish a new "Penis Talk" forum.

I suppose it should me men only? Women should not be talking with their mouths full.:jaw:

 

[yeahright]

Note to self: PM moderators suggesting they establish a new "Penis Talk" forum.

That's the AM Chat feature on the homepage.

 

[dsade]

MS...as I mentioned in the other thread, you need to be taking in WAY more than maintenance calories. They are called maintenance calories for a reason...you will neither build nor lose on them.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

dsade,

I know what maintenace calories are. It's not like i just joined a gym and started working out a few days ago.

If i jumped way past maintenace calories without havoc i would have great results in the gym plus a nice pudgy gut to boot. I would be reporting gains that may or may not be fully responsible for havoc, but havoc and the load of new calorie uptake as well.

I want to see what havoc has to offer all variables remain the same. That is what this thread has to offer.

 

[jcam222]

I had no libido problems on Havoc.

Also, Erectile function and libido are WAY different.

Great thread Ill be watching this one closely as we are similar in age and background..

This quote by dsade is worthy of a post somewhere solo with some discussion and possibly then stickied. These two are continually used incorrectly in posts and recommendations for chemical fixes are often inaccurate as a result.

 

[BodyWizard]

Note to self: PM moderators suggesting they establish a new "Penis Talk" forum.

while a stout & dependable fellow, my penis is not much of a conversationalist -
he'd much rather be DOING SOMETHING than just talking about it....
:bb:

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 9:

Up two pounds on cycle (192).

Excellent arm workout. Improved by a rep on tricep extentions & BB curl.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Yesterday rest day (Day 10) weigh in @ 193.

Weigh in today (Day 11) @ 194!

Net gain 4 pounds for this cycle in 11 days. I look and feel leaner than @ 190. This I find to be the major difference between Havoc and superdrol on my body.

I had an extra few pound by now from previous SD cycles after being on this long, however I was 5 pounds smaller which put me on more of a distance from my genetic potential as with havoc. No major shift in caloric intake on either cycle. I think that makes a difference.


Good back workout. Doing 20 pounds more on bent rows. Hard to say if there was an improvement on pull-ups. Last time I did them i was 5 pounds lighter. Sure makes a difference.

 

[cdawg123]

pretty good results so far, looks like havoc maybe the real deal with these new orals.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

I would reccomend Havoc.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 12;

Back to 193 Ibs today -1 Ib since yesterday. Oh well. Its been like two steps forward one step back on my weight so in all likelyhood I'll weigh 195 tomorrow.

Net gain for cycle: 3 Ibs.

Started with squats. Did 7 sets. Slight increase ( a rep here & there in following sets), but nothing mind blowing.

weighted dips 100x4, 70x8x6x5...increased a few reps from last week*

Flys: 80x7x6x5x4...increased a few reps from last week.

Motivation was a little off this morning. Right knee cap was getting sore from squats which kinda threw my concentration.

Was really happy with dips! Have not dipped with anything over 70 Ibs for over a year, and even working with 70 Ibs has been just recent. Most of my dips training has been neglected for a long time. Then to push 100 for 4 reps...sweet!

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 13:

Weight @ 194. (net gain +4) for cycle.

I'm thinking about ending my cycle tomorrow and run 6oxo at 6 pills ed. for 20 days.

Past experience has tought me that i do well by keeping all my gains from two week cycles on PH's. I'm sure it helps prevent any elevated liver or lipid values as well.

What do you think?

 

[vinnys025]

Day 13:

Weight @ 194. (net gain +4) for cycle.

I'm thinking about ending my cycle tomorrow and run 6oxo at 6 pills ed. for 20 days.

Past experience has tought me that i do well by keeping all my gains from two week cycles on PH's. I'm sure it helps prevent any elevated liver or lipid values as well.

What do you think?

Do what works best for you, however I do best with 4-5 week cycles. I feel it really kicks in around the second week when it comes to PH's, thats when most of my gains happen.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

I took only 10mgs yesterday (Day 13) and today I will cease havoc and begin 6oxo.

This morning i weighed 195! Eating a bowl of oats before bed helped me show a net gain of 5 pounds in two weeks. That is a lot since 190 pounds is like a platue for me.

I'm thinking 12 days of 6oxo at 5 pill a day and then 30 days of jungle warfare.

A relatively weak PCT, but considering only a two weeker, no signs of testicular atrophy I think i can manage.

It will be interesting to observe the half-life of havoc. I'm hoping it will take me through the weekend before the gym closes for Christmas. I thinking AAS that kick in quick leave your system in the same manner...quick.

I hope to hear some comments on my PCT in relation to my abbreviated cycle. Thanks in advance.

I'll continue posting results PCT until the end of January

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 1 PCT
(end havoc, begin 6oxo)

Bench 255x5x4x4...drop set 225x5

dips 70x7x6x5...drop set body weight (195)x12

standing military (front of head) 135x15x14x9

incline fly 45x12x10x10

Abs.

COMMENTS: increased bench by a rep on last set of 255 and drop set (225). increased dip by a rep.

Not sure in front military press is an increase since i have been doing behind my head for past few weeks. As you can see my third set i was way exhausted.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Is anyone still interested in this thread? If not i'll stay off so it won't keep getting bumped to the top.

Thought yesterdays request for comments would have gotten at least a nibble by now.

Day 2 PCT (for all its worth)

weight 193...net gain 3 pound retained. Going jogging today. Want to feel endorphins.

 

[dsade]

Sorry I missed you here. I am curious about the early ending. Are you jsut trying to prevent all sides before they have a chance to happen, or was something bothering you?

 

[xtraflossy]

I beleive he just stopped becasue he does better on shorter cycles.

Personally, I might have run until the First sign of atrophy, or something like that, due to the nature of this product in particular. Im interested in the post cycle , so don't go givin up here just yet.
Usually, (and this may just be in my case) I have to "forget" about the first 3 pounds I gain on cycle, as I have found that I can store about an extra 3lbs of glycogen while on cycle, and then (assuming post cycle is smooth) get to keep what's left after the 3lbs.
I am glad you ran this log here. Short as it was, it was "to the point", and without 8 pages of personal chatter and ball bustn.
Reps to you.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

No, its primarily to keep the gains from the cycle.

My body can adjust to quick gains as long as they are small gains. Thus the short cycle. Just going on experience.

Any possible sides I'm avoiding by a short cycle is just gravy. not sure how significant since I'm not doing blood work.

Thanks guys. It was just getting kinda quiet over here. I'll keep you posted.

sidenote: Wonder if havoc has an effect on immune system. The other havoc posters got sick. I came out lucky there. Been feeling great. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[dsade]

Immunomodulation, whether negative or positive, IS a possibility that I had not looked into. I know I am fighting off a cold myself, but it could also be simply a virulent season.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 3 PCT.

Wake up @ 191...sheesh! Jog 3 miles yesterday and laid off from huge bowls of oats (Christmas party, guest in town) and I lose 2 pounds. Maybe just a fluke. Like those days I gained two pound in one day.

Still a big accomplishment to stay in the 190-195 range for over two weeks.

I'll do dealifts this morning. My results should say a lot about havoc's half life.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

...OK, back from deadlifts....

Mmmm...post cycle kicks ass! Half life or 6oxo got me going this morning on deads...

365x9x7x5, 345x7x5. 315x8x6.

Beats last week while 'on' by 2 reps!

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Day 4 PCT (6oxo, 6 per evening e.d.)

weight back to 194 (3 pounds up from yesterday)*

* weight has fluctuated a lot since havoc/post havoc.

I'm taking today and tomorrow off. Will workout Tuesday and report back in.

Y'all have a Merry Christmas and stay strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thicketman]

Yeah one is the want the other is the ability

Yup, ephedrine HCL boosts my libido, but completely screws by erectile function.

Back on topic.

 

[Grunt76]

Nice log.

Looks like the PCT is going well for you.

 

[MaximumSecurity]

Grunt,

Yes, but since my last big deadlift workout last Saturday my body has signaled me to take a week off.

My left shoulder is getting the old familiar pain from heavy bench and my killer instinct for the weights is a bit blurry right now. I'm guessing after three months of pushing myself hard, plus the age factor has left my CNS a little fizzled out, esp after hitting it hard on havoc.

I had a few light workouts this past week just to keep the blood flowing and rehad my shoulder. I actually was showing signs of life again yesterday with a light weight - high rep workout for upper body. Pumps and motivation was beginning to return.

I think everyone here takes periodic week off and reaps benefits from doing so. I'll attempt another heavy deadlift tomorrow, and this should tell me a lot about my recovery/retention of gains on my short stint with havoc.

My weight this morning: 193. (+ 3 since havoc cycle began)
PCT: day 10...end 6oxo, begin Jungle Warfare three times daily.

Status: Extensive rest days. All systems appear normal with the exception of a slightly over taxed CNS and a slowly recovering over use pain in left shoulder.