Super Stackin it!!! H-50/O-E/N-xt + Powerfull/Anagen/Glycergrow/Cissus Cycle

[Ironclad]

Day 1!

8:00am
50mg Halodrol-50 (First Batch)
75mg Orastan-E


Goal: 25 lbs LBM

Didn't plan to work out this morning thinking I wouldn't feel a difference (my first Hal-50 only cycle I didn't feel anything till the 3rd day), just wanted to load up and get ready for war. Boy was I wrong! Had 8 hours of sleep, was yawning and lazy all day, ears were burning, more focused (can tell cuz I was typing alot faster and more accurate same thing happened on my last cycle- I type alot at work), mood was more on the aggressive side just itching to go to the gym. Be there tonite! Will update this later tonite.

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Are you stacking all of this stuff at the same time?

:blink:

 

[snakebyte05]

I wouldn't put my money on 25lbs.... How long is this for and why the hell are you on so much sh1t! Complete overload for a cycle, more does not mean more gains, it means more bad things!

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Exactly. 25lbs LBM...will take quite some time. I'm guessing....10-12 months on that type of gains. LBM doesn't include fat, water weight, or weight from high glycogen storage. You better think twice about taking all of this together.

 

[Jayhawkk]

He'll either wise up or learn the hard way like I did. Hopfully the former way will be his choice. If not, I hope he has Health insurance.

 

[Alexander]

Save the second half of supplements(non-hormonal) for PCT.

 

[Ironclad]

The rest is for post cycle. :nono: everything after the + is post.

maybe 25 LBM is a little to much, but I'll be happy at 225lbs after the cycle and maintain it and work on BF.

Update: Got to the gym psyched and ready!

weighed in at 197.8


Excerise: Chest and some Tris - My next weeks exersice post wont be so much in detail unless requested

Stats:

Flat Bench:
185 x 10
225 x 8
245 x 7 immediatly 135 x 10

Incline Dumbell Press:
70's x 12
75's x 10
80's x 8 -> 40 x 2 (it hurt too much)

Decline:
185 x 8
185 x 8
185 x 8 x 2 forced -> dips x 15

Flies(Machine):
100 x 10
100 x 10

Just messed around with tris. 150's reverse pulls, 20 db kick backs, 150 push downs and a little bit a machine work.

overall, nothing big to report, the reps felt more controlled, maybe a little bit lighter, no sides except legarthy already and my wife told me to fix my face that i looked tired and a few other noticed a difference in my facial expressions??

ALL COMMENTS AND REQUEST ARE WELCOME

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Just one comment. I doubt you will reach 225lbs from 197.8lbs with Halo/Orostan, but maybe you know something about the human body we don't. Also, if you are basing that number off of gains derived from a previous cycle, I would aim much lower. The bigger you are the harder the gains are to come by. If ever 200lb're could gain weight like they did when they first started lifting the BB'ing arena would be much more crowded.

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

I have no doubts in my mind he can reach 225lbs, but as far as quality is concerned....well...thats a different animal. No way he'll hit 225lbs w/ quality LBM gains.

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

:twisted:

Our avys rock, Mullet.

 

[Alexander]

Maybe 25lbs is too much, but you'll be happy with 27.2.

 

[gbody]

Lol wow, well what's your diet like so we can see if its even possible to reach your goal. Hmm what are your goals really jus waight gain, No strength? Oh well jus asking. You gonna post pix? And yea I figured those where for pct cuz if not it would be kinda dumb taking n-xt on cycle. And hey you can do it man stay focused.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

:twisted:

Our avys rock, Mullet.

Thanks brah..lol..I have a new one to post, some bulk pics. If I could only find this damn USB chord.

 

[Ironclad]

I don't think 225lbs will be hard to hit, I was at 208 the other month. I messed up on my post cycle and lost 10lbs. I'll have pics up asap.

As for my goal for this cycle, I want to hit 225lbs and up my strength 15%. I've always been taught to dream big and you'll recieve. So far it's change my life and physical appearance. These goals might seem outrageous, but watch, the pics will prove it. Even if i don't hit my goals, I know i'll have unbelievable gains.

Can't nobody take my pride, can't nobody hold me down, oh no, I got to keep on movin...

As for my diet,
muscle milk upon wake mixed with sport formula
oatmeal or turkey sandwich 3 hours later
2 baked chicken breast and a unpealed backed potatoe for lunch
muscle milk 3 hours later
whatever my wife cooks for dinner 3 hours later ( she supports my diet, usually 14oz steak, fish or baked chicken)
muscle milk before bed with multi-vitamins, Thistle and Hawthorn
1 - 2 gallons of H2o a day

I'll be talking Cytogainer at the end of the month to replace the Muscle Milk

Update:

6:00 am
50mg halo-50
75mg O-E
went back to sleep
8:00 am
1000mg Milk Thistle
565mg Hawthorn Berry
with Muscle Milk (MM) and Sport Formula (SP)
Need to get some fish oil and som eof that red stuff for cholesterol

I thought maybe the H-50 and O-E would work better on a completely empty stomache.

So far I feel ALOT better then yesterday. More energy, my chest feels more full than after my usual workouts. I feel GOOD! :bb3: for sides, I got bad gas! have to keep going to the restroom to fart! :rant: i've gone 3 times writing this log!

So far very pleased, can't wait to get to the gym tonite for back and bis

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I don't think 225lbs will be hard to hit, I was at 208 the other month. I messed up on my post cycle and lost 10lbs. I'll have pics up asap.

As for my goal for this cycle, I want to hit 225lbs and up my strength 15%. I've always been taught to dream big and you'll recieve. So far it's change my life and physical appearance. These goals might seem outrageous, but watch, the pics will prove it. Even if i don't hit my goals, I know i'll have unbelievable gains.

Can't nobody take my pride, can't nobody hold me down, oh no, I got to keep on movin...

As for my diet,
muscle milk upon wake mixed with sport formula
oatmeal or turkey sandwich 3 hours later
2 baked chicken breast and a unpealed backed potatoe for lunch
muscle milk 3 hours later
whatever my wife cooks for dinner 3 hours later ( she supports my diet, usually 14oz steak, fish or baked chicken)
muscle milk before bed with multi-vitamins, Thistle and Hawthorn
1 - 2 gallons of H2o a day

I'll be talking Cytogainer at the end of the month to replace the Muscle Milk

Update:

6:00 am
50mg halo-50
75mg O-E
went back to sleep
8:00 am
1000mg Milk Thistle
565mg Hawthorn Berry
with Muscle Milk (MM) and Sport Formula (SP)
Need to get some fish oil and som eof that red stuff for cholesterol

I thought maybe the H-50 and O-E would work better on a completely empty stomache.

So far I feel ALOT better then yesterday. More energy, my chest feels more full than after my usual workouts. I feel GOOD! :bb3: for sides, I got bad gas! have to keep going to the restroom to fart! :rant: i've gone 3 times writing this log!

So far very pleased, can't wait to get to the gym tonite for back and bis

If those are your goals then that is great, I believe you should definitely shoot for what you believe in. I was merely saying I doubt the gains you recieved at sub-200 will come as easily as the ones you are expecting now. And for 200lbs that seems like a skimpy diet, especially seeing as two meals are Muscle Milk shakes.

 

[Alexander]

If those are your goals then that is great, I believe you should definitely shoot for what you believe in. I was merely saying I doubt the gains you recieved at sub-200 will come as easily as the ones you are expecting now. And for 200lbs that seems like a skimpy diet, especially seeing as two meals are Muscle Milk shakes.

Very true on the sub-200 gains coming much easier. For me, even getting to 225 wasn't too difficult. Currently I'm about 235 and its taken me a year to get from 225 to 235. Anyways good luck IronClad.

 

[Ironclad]

Day 2

Wanted to nap alot after lunch, energy was up and down. had me some zipfizz so that helped. went to the gym and did back, over all, weights felt lighter but could not get the pump, my chest hasn't hurt like this in a while tho.

lat pull down:
160x12
180x10
200x8

rows:
160x12
180x10
200x8

machine don't know what its called some kind of pull downs
70 each side x 20 x 3

like i said, couldn't feel the pump or burn and it was late so i called it a night.

 

[Ironclad]

woke up today really sore haven't been this since my last cycle. My whole upper body hurt so bad. Was 3 hours late to work, I didn't want to get up. sides, mild headache-because of H-50, IDK? was warm thought the day, lucky i got a fan at work next to me. went to the mall, was sweating and wasn't event that active. still sweating as I type. Cholesterol maybe? I just got me some fish oil so that should help. My cholesterol is high by the way (295 total, 209 ldl, hdl is normal) Out to play tennis tonite and back to the gym tomorrow.

 

[Ironclad]

Day 3

So I couldn't resist, went to the gym last night and did arms. Hadn't had a pump like that run through my arms in a while. Came home and wife was like "they're back!" I felt my arms were huge again. currently 17's workin for 18's by the end of this year. My chest is still sore till this day ( 3rd day) that doesn't usually happen.

 

[Ironclad]

I have been sweating all day long! it sucks, plus my mild headache throught the day. any solutions??? No work out today by the way, sholders tomorrow, my favorite body part. we'll see what happens.

 

[motiv8er]

I don't think 225lbs will be hard to hit, I was at 208 the other month. I messed up on my post cycle and lost 10lbs. I'll have pics up asap.

As for my goal for this cycle, I want to hit 225lbs and up my strength 15%. I've always been taught to dream big and you'll recieve. So far it's change my life and physical appearance. These goals might seem outrageous, but watch, the pics will prove it. Even if i don't hit my goals, I know i'll have unbelievable gains.

Can't nobody take my pride, can't nobody hold me down, oh no, I got to keep on movin...

As for my diet,
muscle milk upon wake mixed with sport formula
oatmeal or turkey sandwich 3 hours later
2 baked chicken breast and a unpealed backed potatoe for lunch
muscle milk 3 hours later
whatever my wife cooks for dinner 3 hours later ( she supports my diet, usually 14oz steak, fish or baked chicken)
muscle milk before bed with multi-vitamins, Thistle and Hawthorn
1 - 2 gallons of H2o a day

I'll be talking Cytogainer at the end of the month to replace the Muscle Milk

Update:

6:00 am
50mg halo-50
75mg O-E
went back to sleep
8:00 am
1000mg Milk Thistle
565mg Hawthorn Berry
with Muscle Milk (MM) and Sport Formula (SP)
Need to get some fish oil and som eof that red stuff for cholesterol

I thought maybe the H-50 and O-E would work better on a completely empty stomache.

So far I feel ALOT better then yesterday. More energy, my chest feels more full than after my usual workouts. I feel GOOD! :bb3: for sides, I got bad gas! have to keep going to the restroom to fart! :rant: i've gone 3 times writing this log!

So far very pleased, can't wait to get to the gym tonite for back and bis

I personally have learned not just hope to hit a weight. I found out the fat gain accompanied by setting a weight goal for myself wasn't a reasonable task. I'd encourage you to look in the mirror and act accordingly.

 

[mixedup]

did you check you BP? try upping the Hawthorne Berry that might help it worked for me on last cycle

 

[D@LABS]

I personally have learned not just hope to hit a weight. I found out the fat gain accompanied by setting a weight goal for myself wasn't a reasonable task. I'd encourage you to look in the mirror and act accordingly.

best advice i have heard in a long time!!!!!! it is how you look and feel about yourself, not what the scale says

 

[Ironclad]

I totaly agree... our gym has a posing room, that's what motivates me everyday. I grew up as a skinny kid, just recently putting on this much weight (40lbs in 2005 alone). Just to have this much weight on me makes me really happy. to be at 225 will make me even happier. to cut my BF down to 10% and maintain 225 I will be the happiest guy in the world. The only thing that i'm not happy with right now are my stretch marks under my armpits and around that area and the ones on my inner thighs. Other than that, I get compliments everyday, I get people telling me to train them, and my wife thinks I'm sexy- cept for my stretch marks. Before H-50, EVERYONE thought I was on roids because of my results, now that's I'm on it, it just pushed everthing up another level.

Train smart, work hard and eat right. I'm never in the gym for more than an hour training. Nobody knows your body better than yourself.

 

[gbody]

Great log so far man..I might go pick some of this stuff up.

 

[mixedup]

Great log so far man..I might go pick some of this stuff up.

hey gbody how did your drol/trn cycle go?

 

[Ironclad]

The headaches are gone! not so hot throughout the day! Not so lazy throughout the day! and attiutade is back to par.:head: I uped my supports and everything is all good now. (thanks mixedup)

Hawthorne Berry 565mg x 3/day
Milke thistle 1000mg x 3/day
Fish Oil x 2/day

I got to the gym late last night and got to do shoulders.

Behinde Cable raises
20x12x3

DB Press
65x10
70x8
75x8

Seated Side Raises (straight armed)
20x10
20x10
25x8+2

Bent over Raises
20x10x3

Overall it went great! Felt good throught the workout, felt strong, felt full, the pumps hurt bad!

weighed in at 199.8 last night! up 2 pounds.

Can't wait for legs!

 

[Hbs6]

This isnt a flame, but isnt halo (i am a little behind on anabolics lately, I'm a natty just trying to zone in on diet and what not) pretty nasty or is it not anymore?

 

[Ironclad]

This isnt a flame, but isnt halo (i am a little behind on anabolics lately, I'm a natty just trying to zone in on diet and what not) pretty nasty or is it not anymore?

I previously done halo and bloodwork 2.5 months later says i'm fine

 

[Hbs6]

OK fair enough, good luck to ya, hope your blood work remains good!

 

[gbody]

hey gbody how did your drol/trn cycle go?

That was a bit ago, but went well I gained 12 pounds...since then I found out to be a cop I would have to be 180 for my hight 5'9 so I'm now cutting down..

 

[Ironclad]

DAY 8

Didn't get to do legs yesterday, went fishing instead. went in today for some chest and tris. I didn't want to stop!! was there an hour and a half, pushing with only one minute rest. last set of flat bench went 8 x 255, up 10 pounds plus a rep!! everything felt alot easier. pushdowns last set 8 x 200. and i barely busted a sweat today! I weighed i at 199.6, tris were looking the best i seenthem today, chest is a little more difined. I'm lovng all results. blood pressure is at 133/74 which is normal in my family. Cannot complain!

 

[revodrew]

I don't think 225lbs will be hard to hit, I was at 208 the other month. I messed up on my post cycle and lost 10lbs. I'll have pics up asap.




Need to get some fish oil and som eof that red stuff for cholesterol

Here are two things in one post that bother me. First you said, you were 208 but messed up on PCT and lost 10lbs. That was just the other month. UM, what the F are you doing on another cycle already?

Next, some of the red stuff?! Man, you dont sound like you have much of a clue. You also said that you needed to go get some of the side supps after you started this cycle.

***ATTENTION NEWBS, PLEASE DONT FOLLOW IN THESE FOOTSTEPS*****

Dude, I am not trying to be an ahole, but everytime that someone has mentioned something you have had a less then par answer for it. Next time do some more research, learn from your previous mistakes and be smarter!!!!:frustrate


Drew

 

[Ironclad]

Here are two things in one post that bother me. First you said, you were 208 but messed up on post cycle therapy and lost 10lbs. That was just the other month. UM, what the F are you doing on another cycle already?

Next, some of the red stuff?! Man, you dont sound like you have much of a clue. You also said that you needed to go get some of the side supps after you started this cycle.

***ATTENTION NEWBS, PLEASE DONT FOLLOW IN THESE FOOTSTEPS*****

Dude, I am not trying to be an ahole, but everytime that someone has mentioned something you have had a less then par answer for it. Next time do some more research, learn from your previous mistakes and be smarter!!!!:frustrate


Drew

Why do people on here always try to hate and think they know everything about supplements and bodybuilding. I don't mind people helping out if I'm screwing up, but it's like poeple look if not make it seem like you're making a big mistake. You're getting too excited there drew.

1.) I was 208 the other month, NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING ON MY CYCLE THE OTHER MONTH.

2.) The only support I didn't have was for my cholestorol. Which I never used on my first Cycle and was fine. Wasn't going to use it this cycle either.

3.) I did learn from my mistake, that's why my post cycle is all lined up. and the only mistake I think I made was I took it easy for a couple weeks after my cycle because I was pushing hard for 3 months straight, thought I'd give my body a break.

4.) I'm on cycle now because my bloodwork is all normal and I gave it adequate time in between.

5.) I'm not a desperate dumbass trying to put myself in the hospital. Just speeding up the growth process. I've probably done more research on this stuff than anyone on this board.

Idiots trying to make other people look like idiots :rant:

 

[revodrew]

Well I can tell from your latest post that you are just ignorant and dont care. Nobody is trying to make you look like an idiot, you are doing a fine job of that on your own. I would say good luck but I dont give 2 shi!ts about you so, yeah!:FUfinger:

 

[Ironclad]

Drew- hypocrite...don't go hating on other people's thread just cuz someone did yours when you were on your superdrol cycle. Figures! Immature dude. You do one cycle calling yourself a newbie and all of a sudden you know everything about prohormones.


DAY 10

The head aches are back, but only towards the end of the day. I've already doubled up on my supports, uped my calories,diet is clean, maintaining protein, 8 hours of sleep + hour nap. Thinking about cutting off the Orastan-E. Maybe it's my eyes. IDK Help?

 

[revodrew]

Actually, nobody did anything during my log other then help. Which was appreciated alot. Check the date on there, um, yeah, about a year ago since that log was kept. Good job doing all this research, you cant even see the date. You have no idea what I have done since then. Obviously it doesnt matter cause you dont listen to any advice so do whatever you want. Good luck with it. Next time you do ask for any advice, maybe you shouldnt be such a **** to the people who are trying to HELP, dont get so defensive, that is just GUILT seeping through and you trying to cover it up with attitude. Enjoy your sides!!!

 

[PVSkyHigh]

Why don't you try a lesser dose of the Halo, to decrease your bp and make your headaches go away. Are you drinking enough water? and maybe staring at a computer screen all day is giving you eye strain.

 

[Ironclad]

No headache this morning, I think it might be my eyes and sitting in front of this computer all day. Gonna add some celery seed today, see if that helps. Gonna up my water intake too to 2 gals. Started taking cytogainer the other day by the way.

Updates:
Sorry didn't get to post my exercise last night, head was bugging and was just being lazy. Got to the gym tho, did back and a little bis. Workouts are GREAT! started a little heavier this time ended up the at the same weight. Everything felt lighter, got an extra 2 reps in, reps were smooth the whole way. felt like I could hold each rep. Getting alot of comments the past week from people here in the office, shirts are getting tighter. weighed in at 200.4 lbs on an empty stomache. Looks like I'm losing BF around the waist, doing no cardio at all. No workout today, shoulders on friday!

 

[LakeMountD]

No headache this morning, I think it might be my eyes and sitting in front of this computer all day. Gonna add some celery seed today, see if that helps. Gonna up my water intake too to 2 gals. Started taking cytogainer the other day by the way.

Updates:
Sorry didn't get to post my exercise last night, head was bugging and was just being lazy. Got to the gym tho, did back and a little bis. Workouts are GREAT! started a little heavier this time ended up the at the same weight. Everything felt lighter, got an extra 2 reps in, reps were smooth the whole way. felt like I could hold each rep. Getting alot of comments the past week from people here in the office, shirts are getting tighter. weighed in at 200.4 lbs on an empty stomache. Looks like I'm losing BF around the waist, doing no cardio at all. No workout today, shoulders on friday!

Starting to see how hard it is to really gain 25 lbs using these compounds now huh? haha. I mean yea you will gain good weight, harden up, etc. but 25 lbs is a little unreasonable. Either way keep the updates coming and good luck on cycle, I will be checking back.

 

[Hbs6]

I previously done halo and bloodwork 2.5 months later says i'm fine

you remember what your lipids were by any chance?

 

[Ironclad]

I believe my cholesterol was really high but both side of my family have high cholesterol, my mom's side takes medication for it. everything else was fine, don't remember the numbers.

Update: Day 11

No headaches till I got to the gym at 9:30pm when I started getting into my workout. It's going away now. Had an AWESOME workout!! The way I felt on my last week on Halo-50 is how I feel now with this stack. Did shoulders, total of 4 exercises, 4 sets each, 12,10,8, dropsets, heavier every set. hit all sides, wanted to do more but it hurt too much. less than a minute rest between sets. reps were alot slower than normal, used same weights but everything felt good. Felt like a BEAST! couldn't get enough so I did tris! doing sets of 20 reps down to 15's. again less than a minutes rest in between. I've never seen my tris this pumped! came home, 1/2 inch bigger than the usual pump. Weighed in at 202.4! up 2 more pounds, with nothing but cytogainer in my stomache. Can't wait to see what next week brings. I'm impressed!

 

[Hbs6]

Iron, i am sorry if I missed this, but is this an old or new batch of halo? Is the new (or maybe 3rd batch, whatever its called) not good?

 

[Ironclad]

First batch, expires 07. I'll have the lot number for you later, I'm at work now. I can definately feel it now tho.

 

[mixedup]

this is a 30 day cycle correct? so 19 more to go? I was just wondering at the start of the cycle you wanted to gain about 25lbs and to date you've gained about 4.5. So what about the stack has impressed you? Is it the strength gains the pumps which i know you say are great. this is not a flame at all but as I believe if your are getting good strength and good pumps it's a good stack but it doesn't seem to be fitting in with your goals. Because you would need to gain approx 1lb a day till the end of your cycle to hit 25lbs and so far you've been gaining less than .5 This cycle looks better as a recomp or a cutter?

 

[Ironclad]

yes, this will be a thirty day cycle and it does look like 25 lbs will be really hard to gain, even if it s fat. What I like and impressed me the most is the strength it gives me. I like feeling really strong, not powerlifting strong but to be able to do alot of reps at high volume. As for recomp or cutter, I am more defined, I look more vascular, everything is getting tighter and harder, but I've gained some weight at the waist, really need to get some cardio in.

Sorry, nothing to update as of today, cept my arms are 0.5 inch bigger. will be in the gym tomorrow for chest and cardio.

 

[Ironclad]

Day 18

Doesn't look like I'm gonna hit my goal by far. I really don't think this a is the compound to do it. I've talk to a few people and they all said the same thing, not too much wight increase but a crap load of strength. I think I'll be sitting at 210-212 at the end of this cycle.

Update:
203.4 lbs +5.7lbs
weights are up on everything

My whole body is hard once again, I do look ALOT fuller, Got everyone in the gym questioning what I'm taking. I usually can't get this sore sober. I can handle the pain while repping, but when I stop my pumps hurt so much and they last for a while even till after a stretch. so my next set comes about 3 1/2 minutes later instead of a minute.

haven't had a headache for a while now, added dry garlic to supports, that seemed help. BP is at 143/80

Pimples have appeared, grown about 5 while on the cycle, I don't usually get em, specially during the summer.

SLEEPING MORE - Been an hour late for work 4 times this week, came home everyday for lunch and slept for an hour, again late half hour to work the past 4 days, come home after work and take another hour-2hour nap the past 4 days!!!


I've got 12 pills left, I'm tempted to take 75mg of Halo a day + 75mg of O-E for the next 8 days. :think: Any opinions? I know someone that took 100mg of halo for his last 2 weeks and said his stregth shot thru the roof. but he wasn't stacking the O-E.

HGH anyone?

Anyone know how I should stack the Novedex, Powerfull, Anagen, Glycergrow, and Cissus for my post cycle???

had my brother try the glycergrow last night and he felt like he was on superpump250.

 

[jjohn]

Wow. Youstill have very impressive results

 

[Ironclad]

Day 20

surprisingly 206.4 lbs (+9.3 lbs) haven't been eating as much as I should be.

again reps are up, weight is up, did cardio for the first time on the cycle. went well, but now my chest hurts near my heart area. don't know the reason being.

still getting lots of comments, people continue to tell me i'm getting bigger.

will start the novedex on monday. 4/4/3/3/2/2 have some left over from my last cycle.

will start the powerfull/cissus/gycergrow next friday, then the anagen 30 days later.

anyone think of a better way to take these??

 

[Ironclad]

Just started the novedext, decided I will take the 75mg of halo for the last 4 days.

Updates:
sitting at 206.4 lbs
Set personal records on bench today!

Incline bench 225 x 8 (3rd set) usually do 85's DB x 8 on the 3rd after flat.
Flat bench 275 x 7 (3rd set) up 4 reps usually do these before incline
Incline Flies 45's x 10 up 10 lbs

Nothing too exciting happening, tho I was pretty stoked about how easy bench was today. no headaches for the past 2 weeks, I wake up sore and stiff in the morning, don't know why, feels good tho. 7 more days... Pretty excited to see what the powerfull and anagen will do. This will be my last cycle with orals. If the Powerfull or Anagen doesn't perform as expected I will be going all natty unless I get et a hold of some hgh or something better comes out.