Ursobolic Log

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  1. Ursobolic Log


    Being as I read the U of Iowa study on ursolic acid--Google it if unfamiliar, I'm unable as of yet to post links--I bought some of E-Pharm's new product: "Ursobolic". Just got it yesterday, just took my first dose.

    I'm dosing unconventionally as follows: three caps prior to a workout, and three caps prior to bedtime. In this fashion with my workout regimen (4x weekly) I can stretch a single bottle at this dosing about 3.5 weeks.

    My rationale for such a regimen is as follows: ursolic acid works as an ergogen by potentiating IGF-1. Being as IGF-1 follows the release of GH--IGF-1 being released due to the release of GH--it makes sense to me to utilize ursolic acid in such a way to have it metabolized at the very point at which GH is likely to peak. When is this? The first few hours of sleep as well as during a workout.

    If anyone sees any flaws in my dosing plan, please let me know. I would actually prefer to have the resources to run such a product much more heavily--at a couple of grams, perhaps, of UA spread out over the course of the day--but to do so with Ursobolic would be extremely expensive.

    For my diet and exercise plan, I'm looking to maintain and/or increase strength while losing fat. I'm currently at the cusp of the lauded 10% bodyfat point, so if I end this 'cycle' with an apparent six-pack and increased strength, I'll be willing to concede this product works on humans as it does lab rats.

    Thanks for reading; I'm looking forward to these next few weeks.
    Last edited by msbachman; 10-07-2011 at 09:51 AM. Reason: clarified 2nd paragraph


  2. This is interesting; literally just saw it.

    japsonline.com/final/68-71.pdf
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  3. Subbed.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  4. in for the ride here

  5. Subbed.
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  6. have you read the study about it possibly making for a nice Ai?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    have you read the study about it possibly making for a nice Ai?
    hmm my on cycle usage of this product sounds even more enticing... Do you happen to have a link? Or is this one of the studies already posted in a log?
    RecoverBro ELITE

  8. Count me in for the info
    SNS - Serious Nutrition Solutions
    My advice is exclusively my own and may not correspond with the views of SNS
    Questions or concerns? → conny[@]seriousnutritionsolutions.com

  9. subbed also,
    i am also thinking of running ursobolic to loose some fat lbs to get down to around 8-9% bfat (currently approx 11%), ideally would like it to maintain strength and drop bfat on maintenence calories.

  10. Thanks for the subs and interest in this experiment.

    I felt daily updates of my progress were futile; due to the research on this product insta-results weren't really to be expected. However, I do have some positive results to post; hence me updating my log today.

    To recap my dosing, it's 3 capsules pre-workout (I workout 4 days a week on consecutive days due to a '3-day workweek' of 12-hour shifts), and 3 caps every night before bed. Each time I take it with the nearest meal to ensure maximum absorption.

    Initially, the only effect I saw with this product was increased thirst/drymouth. This came right off the bat, perhaps even after the first dose. Wasn't particularly troubling, ended up drinking a bit more water to compensate for it.

    Now I'm some 20 days 'on', and I can report minor changes in body composition. I noticed after about fifteen days 'on' that my second row of abs was defined (when flexed), and I can now tell that my forearms have seemingly become more vascular. I've been somewhat stuck on a zig-zag diet scheme at some 180 pounds at 5'7" for months now, so this positive change in composition is a very good sign but not necessarily proof positive of its efficacy.

    There could be something to this product, but please take what I'm saying thusfar with a grain of salt. I have noticed positive effects thusfar but my training and nutrition definitely played a role in this as well.

    Despite my continued skepticism about Ursobolic I look forward to the next weeks using it (bought three bottles, 2.2 or so to go).

  11. Hi, you have received -296 reputation points from henryv.
    Reputation was given for this post.

    Comment:
    i think higher dosing = better

    Regards,
    henryv
    Price ursolic acid reasonably and I'll be the first to take your advice. I would love to replicate the doses given to rats in humans but given the dose per bottle the price to do so would be outrageous. You're talking about upwards of a gram of UA daily; and the 'recommended dosage' on the bottle doesn't even come close to the dose given to rats in the U of I study.

    I'm trying to do the best I can on a limited budget; I don't see any reason why UA would be completely ineffective in lower doses, but I did justify my reasons for taking it as I am in my initial post.

  12. find the powder,

    dose the powder simple as that.

    with bottleing capping and labeling theres a huge rise in prices. find the powder and dose it a gram a day.

  13. I googled it but if you have a solid source for bulk UA powder hit me up with a link and I'll look into it. I know it's out there--its used in cosmetics and such--I just can't seem to find a source for it online.

    Found one site that sold it, alibaba.com, all the companies that are selling it in powder form are from China; I'm not sure if they're trustworthy.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by msbachman View Post
    I googled it but if you have a solid source for bulk UA powder hit me up with a link and I'll look into it. I know it's out there--its used in cosmetics and such--I just can't seem to find a source for it online.

    Found one site that sold it, alibaba.com, all the companies that are selling it in powder form are from China; I'm not sure if they're trustworthy.
    a lot of stuff comes from there.

    you can also find bulk powder sites,

    kalyx is one, but loquat leaf is a source of it, holy basil is as well.

    problem is finding a pure UA. when its PURE its super expensive. when its extracted to 95-98% its a bit cheaper.

    i found it a while ago, but can seem to find it again.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    a lot of stuff comes from there.
    Do you mean "a lot of stuff comes from[...]" alibaba.com or China? I would order from alibaba if I knew for sure it was reputable.

    kalyx is one, but loquat leaf is a source of it, holy basil is as well.

    problem is finding a pure UA. when its PURE its super expensive. when its extracted to 95-98% its a bit cheaper.

    i found it a while ago, but can seem to find it again.
    If you happen to remember let me know. I did check out kalyx but their stuff is some 5% pure. I'd jump on UA 95% for 165 USD (per kilogram) but at 5%, 165 bucks would be a fifty day supply at 1 gm. UA/day...i.e. expensive as ****.

    Thanks for the info though, you've pointed me in the right direction with bulk powders.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by msbachman View Post
    Price ursolic acid reasonably and I'll be the first to take your advice. I would love to replicate the doses given to rats in humans but given the dose per bottle the price to do so would be outrageous. You're talking about upwards of a gram of UA daily; and the 'recommended dosage' on the bottle doesn't even come close to the dose given to rats in the U of I study.

    I'm trying to do the best I can on a limited budget; I don't see any reason why UA would be completely ineffective in lower doses, but I did justify my reasons for taking it as I am in my initial post.
    I completely agree. All the mega dosing of ursobolic people are doing at the moment won't really show what the product does. You can mega dose pretty much any test booster and get good results, the real test of a product is to dose at a normal level and still get good results.

    It also says a lot about Henry's attitude if he negs people because they don't mega dose. It makes me think this isn't going to be the fantastic product that some people are saying unless you dose very high.

    Looking forward to the rest of the updates.

  17. pure ua powder a good reliable source.....am interested location doesnt matter?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by warsteiner View Post
    It also says a lot about Henry's attitude if he negs people because they don't mega dose. It makes me think this isn't going to be the fantastic product that some people are saying unless you dose very high.
    Honestly I wish I would have waited to hear about the dosing for this supplement. The cursory information I had on it was that it was '150 mg Ursolic Acid.' This is technically true, but deceptive; 150 mg comes from three capsules. Each capsule contains the UA of about a single apple (those apples that contain a high concentration of UA tend to have in the vicinity of 50mg).

    For those researching this product, the specified dosing instructions are as follows: three capsules, 3 to 6 times daily.

    I thought to myself, well, that's not that bad a deal: a bottle will last some 20 days, and ordered it. Then I found out to get 150 mg of UA, you need three pills. That right there screwed all my calculations up; a bottle at a gram/day dose wouldn't then last 20 days, but a mere SIX.

    After hearing about that, I decided to try to dose it as intelligently as possible based on the cursory information we have available about this product, e.g. the IGF pathway. IGF follows GH release, so take it prior to when you expect GH to be released!

    I really don't want to come across as bashing E-Pharm though; I truly do appreciate the speed in which they pushed this product to market. It was some two weeks from the time at which I heard about the press release to seeing a Ursobolic presale going on, so I definitely want to express my gratitude in being one of the lucky guinea pigs for a promising new product.

    E-Pharm is due credit for this, but at the same time, I do hope for a future supplement that comes in the form of some concentrated UA extract (see NOW Foods L-Arginine, 1 kilo. for 30$). I'd also like to see E-Pharm megadose someone--maybe Patrick Arnold himself could log his experiences with it--at something in the realm of 1-2 grams of UA daily. Something that can replicate the rat studies, or exceed them (in terms of dosage), in human trials is really going to be the true test of this supplement.

    If/when I can get the supplement in bulk, I'd be willing to test such on myself; again, I'd probably do it with something like 0.5-1.0 gram twice daily, pre-workout and before bed. With such a huge dose, I'd expect gains similar to IGF supplementation (if this is the mechanism of effect, and if it carries over to humans from rats); even better would be someone who juices with GH, have them take a big-dose prior to injections.

    I'll post the details of my progress in the weightroom, people can take it for what it's worth, very soon. I want a bottle down at least before I detail my progress, gives more time to tell the effect of this supplement.

    Thanks to all for the support and contributions.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by warsteiner View Post
    I completely agree. All the mega dosing of ursobolic people are doing at the moment won't really show what the product does. You can mega dose pretty much any test booster and get good results, the real test of a product is to dose at a normal level and still get good results.

    It also says a lot about Henry's attitude if he negs people because they don't mega dose. It makes me think this isn't going to be the fantastic product that some people are saying unless you dose very high.

    Looking forward to the rest of the updates.
    The dosing suggested by msbachman is not in keeping with the suggested dosing on the product. 3-6 caps 3 x a day with food. Standard dosing does not equate to mega dosing in my opinion. Dose is not "price" dependent. At any rate the price per month at standard dosing is approx $28 per month. Pretty much average price for a supplement of any type if we are discussing a name brand product. The dosing protocol here if i understand you post correctly has you only taking three capsules on some days of the week with maximum of six on your work out days. This is no where close to the recommended dosage. I am taking the minimum suggested 9 and am getting good results.

    Your logic is flawed, So if you had a bottle of whiskey, and based on price, you, instead of drinking 6 shots you only drank 1 you'd still expect to get drunk? Its the same thing, there are minimum effective doses, I do not see any recommendation to mega dose from anyone. Owing to the physical properties of ursolic acid powder it doesn't pack well so it takes more caps to contain it. You can't pack down what won't pack down. You are basing so much of your opinion of how many capsules that are involved, 1oz of chocolate chips is still one 1oz of chocolate. If I pop them into my mouth at the same time I get the same chocolate effect as if I ate a 1oz block. What about this can you not wrap your head around?
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition



  20. Angry


    bachmans putting me off lol

  21. Quote Originally Posted by msbachman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv
    Hi, you have received -296 reputation points from henryv.
    Reputation was given for this post.

    Comment:
    i think higher dosing = better

    Regards,
    henryv
    Price ursolic acid reasonably and I'll be the first to take your advice. I would love to replicate the doses given to rats in humans but given the dose per bottle the price to do so would be outrageous. You're talking about upwards of a gram of UA daily; and the 'recommended dosage' on the bottle doesn't even come close to the dose given to rats in the U of I study.

    I'm trying to do the best I can on a limited budget; I don't see any reason why UA would be completely ineffective in lower doses, but I did justify my reasons for taking it as I am in my initial post.
    Quote Originally Posted by warsteiner View Post
    It also says a lot about Henry's attitude if he negs people because they don't mega dose.
    Lol. In case it wasn't obvious it was supposed to be a rep, not a neg. I accidentally negged someone else on here the other day when I was trying to rep them (bdcc iirc). Not sure how it happened, never happens anywhere else.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    The dosing suggested by msbachman is not in keeping with the suggested dosing on the product. 3-6 caps 3 x a day with food. Standard dosing does not equate to mega dosing in my opinion.
    What you're calling "standard dosing" is something E-Pharm threw onto a new product with limited human testing. It's completely arbitrary with no basis to the mechanisms of action of UA.

    Can anyone on E-Pharm's bankroll please give me a coherent explanation for why the heck drawing the dosage out to some 3x the timespan recommended by the manufacturer is going to totally negate the supplement's effects?

    Also, for your dosing you're taking the low end of the "recommended dose". The high end is more likely to approximate the doses given to the rats in the U of Iowa study, but even then I think Ursobolic is underdosed. That's some 900 mg., split among 18 pills. A bottle will last less than a week.

    Owing to the physical properties of ursolic acid powder it doesn't pack well so it takes more caps to contain it. You can't pack down what won't pack down.
    Then why pack it? Put it in a bottle with a scooper in it or get a >25% extract.

    What about this can you not wrap your head around?
    Your response certainly endears E-Pharm to me.

    I'm trying to best utilize UA by the info available concerning how it works. We don't know the minimum effective dose in humans (in rats it seems to be 0.14% of food content), so your analogy to alcohol is inapplicable.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by miniarnold View Post
    bachmans putting me off lol
    I'm sorry I didn't quite understand your previous response; I thought it was a statement rather than a question. I don't yet have a reliable source for high-potency UA powder; I am working on it, however.

    If I find something, I'll be sure to message you to let you know. In due time, however, I think competing brands will enter the market. Time will tell....

  24. Quote Originally Posted by msbachman View Post
    I'm sorry I didn't quite understand your previous response; I thought it was a statement rather than a question. I don't yet have a reliable source for high-potency UA powder; I am working on it, however.

    If I find something, I'll be sure to message you to let you know. In due time, however, I think competing brands will enter the market. Time will tell....
    yes hit me up if you do find a reliable UA source
    cheers

  25. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Lol. In case it wasn't obvious it was supposed to be a rep, not a neg. I accidentally negged someone else on here the other day when I was trying to rep them (bdcc iirc). Not sure how it happened, never happens anywhere else.
    I can confirm this neg rep as true lol. It hurt me deep.

    Henryv is not going to neg people because they aren't running the higher dose. Science runs in his arguments far more than most people's and he is usually one of the first to admit the downfalls in the product's science and dosing scheme i.e. limited human testing.
    PEScience Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
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