The PCT of a PCT log

[matthias7]

IDEA 1
I was going to run a log called the E2 log, where I stack Sustain Alpha into formestane and see if my E2 levels went haywire using diagnostic tests.
Badly formed idea. PCT is not to be played with.

IDEA 2
Instead I'm running a formestane PCT and then running a second Sustain Alpha PCT afterwards. Test levels will be monitored throughout.

IDEA 3
I am open to comments and ideas

CYCLE
I've just run a 1T cycle which bridged into Epi over 6 weeks. I'm in PCT next week.
1T (4/5/5/5-discontin./0/0) and Epi (0/0/10/10/20/30-40).

SIDES
Surprisingly from 1T. It was "anti-cholinegenic" or "anti-nootropic". Pity. It could be use on-cycle at a lower dose because it appeared to reduce blood pressure. I didn't like it, but I believe it has a role to play in future cycles, not sure exactly how perhaps pulsed.

GOOD
I took to Epi like a duck to water. It was great and no sides. I didn't intend to run it seriously at first - as you can see. Slight prostrate issues (increased urination).

GAINS: 9 - 10lbs of which a little is fat (bulking). Not great, but Epi wasn't dosed properly (I intended 6 weeks 1T)
STRENGTH: gains, e.g. added 5kgx2 to dumbell curl (12 x 4 reps), i.e. 22lbs total, my curl is now 17.5kgx2 (77lbs). Bench press/ shoulder work difficult due to injury*
Arms - bulked (key goal)
Core - looks good
Legs - I didn't focus on legs much

* I picked up a shoulder injury which hampered chest work.

PCT is 5 weeks + 4 weeks natty.

PCT 1
Estrogen control (weeks 0-4) (unstated).
Formestane (0/3/4/3/2).
LeanFX (0/0/2/3/3-2/).
Test boosters Activate Extreme (DS) then Phyto-test (PP) with ZMA and Toco-8 throughout.

PCT 2
The testosterone recovery stack (PP) will run behind this as a natty PCT PCT, along with PowerFull/1-carboxy (weeks 6 to 10 PCT).

PCT 3
From week 10 adatogens + antioxidents to fully reset the system. I'll not log this.

Finally blood work.

I'll log the PCT weekly and throw in test levels. I've got 3 test results spare (I think).

NOTES, The big disadvantage of using formestane is its not great on the liver. This is a BIG minus and an (unstated) plus why Sustain Alpha is a good AI. I'm not sure why PP don't market this.

My logs are not sexy, but the last one picked up alot of reads (4000+).

 

[matthias7]

Here ya go.

Waterman ... Pre-Raphaelite.

Never attempt to date 3 women at once, too much stress. This guys out of his depth already.

 

[matthias7]

GOAL 1: test levels
Check test levels at the end of PCT 1
Check test levels at the end of PCT 2
Finally test level check during PCT 3

GOAL 2:
Can I hold the weight? PCT1
Ditto PCT2

QUESTION
What I'd like to ask is whether there's any point doing a steriodal to natty PCT in terms of "holding" or test levels? At the current price of Sustain Alpha (25% discount) it isn't that expensive to run.

 

[matthias7]

Historical test levels (saliva):

MassFX and HyperdrolX2 (August, 2009) = .. 129 pg/ml
Icariin and phytotest (October, 2009) = ........ 82 pg/ml
Maca/low quantity ginseng/ very brief DHEA =106 pg/ml

148 is max. range and peak male test (21 years).
I've a formestane test result yet to add.

So... my test levels vary ... alot and are very responsive to test boosters.

 

[matthias7]

I suppose to make this a fully fledged PCT log for supplements I'd need to log the PCT of the next cycle this time using Test. Recovery Stack as the only PCT.

If the SERM usage was the same between the two cycles the two results would then be comparable. :dunno:

 

[matthias7]

Briefly I was asked about running Epi (4 weeks) using OTC PCT. I've not made this clear but I'm using a SERM just not promoting SERM usage.

I've now run the cycle an extra 0.5 weeks at 40mg ED* and went through a touch of gyno (mild). Whats going on is SHBG is being knocked out freeing up both test and estrogen. Funnily enough it cleared up by itself - weird.

Anyway with a bit of gyno on cycle there's a good chance of an estrogen rebound PCT.

The only thing I realized was that running ActiVate Extreme isn't needed. I can just run bulk Divanex from Nutra. Why? Thats because reducing SHBG will not risk elevated estrogen because the SERM will stop estrogen being a problem.

ActiVate and TestPro both use I3C to get around the possible problem of excess estrogen. Running Divanex solo however might not be such a cool move.

* This was more or less a full epi cycle now, the extra 0.5 weeks have helped clear the majority of a shoulder injury. I should be able to start shoulder/chest work again.

 

[matthias7]

Workout. Some of the guys here (Smeton Yea + Urbanski) have massive repertoires of reps I've never even heard of. Okay I've a more restricted routine, I'll start listing it.

This is what I do, I'm using 1kilo=2.2 pounds conversion:
Typical days diet

Protein
250g+ of 75% and 90% whey powder factions per day (minimum)
50g+ beef/ pork
4 eggs
Carbs
100g+ oats/seed mix
1 large potatoe
(beans)
Veg
Usually equivalent to 1 brocolli head per day (alot).
Junk
Resumed a junk food intake of candy bars. Must stop.

Diet criticism. On-cycle carb intake is too low.

Supplements
I quit alot!
Orange Triad
Fish Oil
Milk thistle/ low Cycle Support/ taurine.
BCAA 30g / day

Bicep work..
This is where I've got to on-cycle....

Preacher (I need warm up reps for this)
22 lbs x 12
44 lbs x 12
55 lbs x 12 x 3 - originally made a mistake converting kilos to lbs.

Concerntration curl
55 lbs x 12
66 lbs x 12
77 lbs x 12 x 3

Bicep curl
55 lbs x 12
77 lbs x 12 x 3
OR
55 lbs x 12 x 4 (depending)

Hammer curl
77 lbs x 12 x 3

To be continued...

 

[flightposite]

im in brother. looks very interesting good luck.

 

[UKStrength]

Looking forward to this log mate, good luck with the different regime :thumbsup:

 

[matthias7]

Thanks! Beauty is timeless. This model sat for this oil paint about 160 years ago (not sure exactly).

Collier - Pre-Raphelite "Lady Godiva"

 

[ax1]

i know thermolife doesnt have a great rep in the underground, but i started ebol v2 and cbol 2 weeks after my pct was over and everything has improved!! wish i started the non-hormonal ebol day 1 after pct is over.

ebol is a adaptogen powerhouse!

just think its good non-hormonal product for a pct for a pct, lol

 

[matthias7]

Ebol certainly looks interesting!

Criticism: Ashwhaganda (2.5% withanolides) - this is low. Sometimes a low extraction doesn't mean its bad, it can be better than "high extraction" depends on the process. Rhodiola is a good example.
If they've (Ebol) got their ginseng spot on then it should be good. Ginseng is either amazing or does zip - depending on alot of factors.

Turkesabol™ 20mg
(Ajuga turkestanica extract - imported directly from the Institute of the Chemistry of Plant Substances, Academy of Sciences, Republic of Uzbekistan containing: Turkesterone, Ecdysterone, Cyasterone and Ajugasterone)

EcdyPure™ 110mg
Rhaponticum carthamoides extract standardized for 95% Ecdysterone

Ginsentabol™ 333mg
Korean (Red) Ginseng standardized for min 10% Rd ginsenoside

Somniferabol™ 100mg
Ashwhaganda (2.5% withanolides)

Ionobol™ 100mg
Ionol (4-hydroxy-3, 5-di-tert-butyltoluene)

Rostanabol™ 20mg
(25 R)-5alpha-spirostan-2alpha, 3beta, 5alpha-triol-6-OH

Vitamin C 333mg
*******
BTW I'm not in the "underground". The Underground is a subterranean train network in London. There ain't any internet signal there . Anyway there very few members of the "underground" on the board. Its just the US law on SERM usage and that doesn't apply in the UK (its not illegal to use a SERM).

 

[ax1]

here is some more on the ebol ginseng and ashwanga

Ginsentabol™ 333 mg

Ginsentabol, the trademarked name of ThermoLife's Korean Red Ginseng extract, is the third ingredient listed on the label of the new E-BOL. Ginsentabol is standardized to provide a minimum of 10% ginsenoside Rd, a triterpene glycoside which is considered to be the most anabolic ginsenoside studied to date. Ginsentabol's content of ginsenoside Rd has been verified by HPLC. The last batch tested came out at 14.8% ginsenoside Rd and 52.9% total ginsenosides.

ThermoLife tested at least five different Ginseng samples before they were able to find one that was standardized for ginsenoside Rd. Each test involved performing HPLC and consumed considerable time (several weeks per sample), not to mention money. Some of the samples tested were found to contain less than 1% ginsenoside Rd; one was only 0.01%. Ginsentabol possesses the highest content of ginsenoside Rd that ThermoLife scientists could find anywhere in the world. Each serving of E-BOL supplies what they consider to be the safest and most potent dose of this powerful extract.

Fans of the original formula will be excited to learn that Ginsentabol replaces Rhodolia rosea in the new E-BOL. Rhodiola has a calming effect; however, the exceptionally potent extract used in the original E-BOL formula (yielding the highest % of rosavins ever) may have been too effective for some users. ThermoLife scientists replaced it with Ginsentabol so that users could enjoy an immediate energy boost and other adaptogenic effects and because, like everything else in the new formula, it displays anabolic properties.

In the long history of Ginseng studies it has often been observed that some subjects experience almost nothing whereas other experience profound effects. Recently it has been proposed that this was due to the lack of proper standardization for the active compounds in Ginseng. Ginsentabol is not only properly standardized; it is also the first Ginseng extract for which the anabolic properties have been highlighted by focusing on ginsenoside Rd. The manufacturing methods used by ThermoLife ensure that it remains intact and biologically active.

As was the case with turkesterone and ecdysterone, using synthetic (pure) ginsenoside Rd in E-BOL would have been cost-prohibitive. Doing so would require HPLC purification, an expensive process. In addition, it is important to give consumers the other active compounds present in Ginsentabol since they also have beneficial effects (e.g. as on endurance, mood, cognitive function, insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance and nitric oxide). Ginsenoside Rd has been highlighted in E-BOL for its anabolic effects, but it certainly not the only compound that matters.

Somniferabol™ 100 mg

Next on the list of ingredients is Somniferabol, the trademarked name of ThermoLife's Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) extract standardized for 2.5% withanolides. Somniferabol is manufactured using a unique method of extraction that makes it even stronger than the material used in the popular original formula, which yielded 1.5% withanolides. As expected, HPLC tests have been performed to verify the withanolide content of ThermoLife's material. The last batch was found to yield 3.1%.

Like every other plant extract in the new formula, Ashwagandha been added on the basis of its dual adaptogenic-anabolic properties. Ashwagandha has been in medicinal use for over three millennia, including as a treatment for exhaustion, sleep disturbances, low immunity and anxiety - all of which can impact one's anabolic potential. It also modulates nitric oxide activity and displays neuroprotective properties. The bruised leaves of the plant are used to reduce inflammation, for which it is regarded as highly effective. One of the withanolides, known as Withaferin A, inhibits NF-KB, a complex of cellular proteins involved in the regulation of muscle atrophy, among other things.

 

[matthias7]

Thanks, reps. Oh I forgot to add the weight of the bar (44lbs).

Chest
Bench press
12 x 132 lbs x 1
12 x 198 lbs x 3 (max)

Dumbell press
12 x 99 lbs x 3 .... possibly injuryed shoulder
12 x 88 lbs x 3 . more realistic

Shoulders
Lat raises
12 x 22 lbs x 1
12 x 33 lbs x 3

Dumbbell fly
1 x 44 lbs x 1
12 x 55lbs x 3 .... injuryed shoulder

Back
Dead lift
12 x 110 lbs x 1
12 x 154 lbs x 3
12 x 176 lbs x 1

Dumbbell (forget)
20 x 66 x 1
20 x 99 x 3

Triceps
Dips (unweighted)
15 x 5

Tricep machine ... to be continued

Legs
Squat -> target around 180 lbs
12 x 110 lbs x 1
12 x 154 lbs x 3

Abs ...
Reverse crunchs (unweighted)
15 x 5

Ball crunches
15 x 3

Bizzare medicine ball work
... until failure

 

[ax1]

Thanks, reps.

well what do you think? i posted there because i like your critiques.

 

[matthias7]

IMO pure ginseng (6-year, red) is better than extracts.
It was a mistake to remove Rhodiola from Ebol, ashgandwana and rhodiola are a standard combination. I think the Ashwagandha I know is 8% extract - although that doesn't mean its better.

The question really is value for money - and Ebol would certainly be cheaper than buying Ashwagandha/rhodiola and ginseng separately. However the last 3 represent extremely potent adaptogens, particularly when each is sourced for the best in their product range.

 

[matthias7]

Not quite finished everything but in summary:

I'm happy with the bicep work and something I've been focussing on, also the chest weights. The rest is admittedly a bit low. Deadlift for example Smeton Yea is hitting 250-275lb deadlift *shock*.

Weights goal 1
Smoothing a way from a shoulder injury... lighter shoulder and chest back towards pre-injury weight.

Weights goal 2
Holding the weight for bicep.

Weights goal 3
Increasing deadlift and squat.

 

[matthias7]

Day 5 PCT. This has gone well.
1. Energy levels high.
2. Libido good.
3. Strength ok, a bit low
4. Stamina - low
5. Atrophy - recovering nicely

The key problem I am up against is stamina throughout the workout.

Last night start off:
Preacher
22 lbs x 12
44 lbs x 12
55 lbs x 12 .. failed
49.5lbs x 12 x 3

Concerntration curl
55 lbs x 12
66 lbs x 12 x 3
(normal 77 lbs x 12 x 3)

Bicep curl
55 lbs x 12 x 3

Hammer curl
55 lbs x 12 x 3

Tricep machine ... to be continued

Dead lift - no change, then again I'm not pushing this.
12 x 110 lbs x 1
12 x 154 lbs x 3
12 x 176 lbs x 1

Abs
Reverse crunch - 12 x 5
Ball crunch - 12 x 3

Gym shut before I could get the squats and cardio done

SUMMARY
I feel fantastic and am trying to cut. However, I'll need to start a creatine cycle next week to tackle the stamina problem.

The above is in sharp contrast to on-cycle where you can go through the reps and rep them all again.

 

[matthias7]

Take the above back... staminas dropped and bit of a drop in strength but what was lacking was a pre-workout meal.

I've just gone through the above with heavier reps on top.

The routine is alternating between:
Chest, triceps, shoulders, abs, back
Biceps, cardio, abs, legs

 

[matthias7]

Day 7 PCT:

Current stack
SERM+ (all non-OTC unstated)
Milk thistle
Taurine
Toco-8
(Now) creatine mono

Summary
Day 1-5 = normal workout, real strain day 4, but fine day 5 with a pre-workout meal.
Day 6 = swimming. I hate swimming, but ex-girl (perhaps not so ex-girl) loves it.
Day 7 = zip

Good.
1. Lost a little bit of weight cutting
2. Upped my squat to 80kg thats 176lbs x 12 x 3. Goal: 220lbs at the end of PCT 1.
3. The boys are back in town - its pretty obvious I've pulled through shutdown.

Not so good
1. I've started a creatine cycle - to boost gym stamina - biggest threat to my gains.
2. Lost a bit of muscle - inevitable. What I didn't say was that on-cycle I'd often "rep the reps" - no fatigue massive strength. Can't do that now.
3. I've a bit of gyno. Bit worrying with a non-OTC Serm. I'll stick with my SERM for now and hold the dosage into week 2. Formestane is on hold for 1 week.

Workout
I'm working out 5 days a week, alternating the above routine every other day. On-cycle would do 6/7 days per week.

Now
I am stuck in non-OTC and I can't budge from it with a touch of gyno. Also I'll need the heavy PCT program I've outlined to make sure there's no estrogen rebound [I'm clearly prone to gyno - no tren for me ].

Overall
Its pretty clear I can manage a 6.5 week cycle and bounced out of it, with just a bit of gyno (and thats my fault) and a drop in stamina (expected), but without fatigue (which is good).

Lesson
What I should have done is used an AI week 4 Epistane. What happened was the Epistane surpressed estrogen up to a point then started to boost estrogen by smashing my SHBG levels. To be honest I could feel it. There is a designer where ATD is loaded into Epi and now I know why

Plan
I'm not counting natty PCT as cycle+PCT time between cycles, thus
Cycle = 6 weeks
PCT (steriodal) = 4 weeks (hopefully)
PCT (natty AI [Sustain]) = 4 weeks
PCT (adaptogens) = 5 -10 weeks
Time to my next cycle is (6+4)*2 - 1 week PCT = 19 weeks.

 

[matthias7]

The original is stunning (below). It doesn't quite work online, her sexy distraughtness is lost. The hand beneath her is her dead husband.

Delacroix, "Greece on the Ruins of Missolonghi".

The message to Europe was pretty clear, come and fight the Greek war of independence against the Turks and BTW there's a load of young, beautiful, distraught widows that need comforting. Biron was there like a flash, although I think he died of disease there (in wars disease is as bigger killer as war itself).

 

[matthias7]

Actually the "gyno" has almost cleared up now. Very quick turn around. Surprising.

I guess if you just hold the ship steady, you get results.

 

[matthias7]

Okay today I think strength has more or less come back. Not as strong as was, but not bad.

Bicep work..
This is where I've got to today post-cycle:

Dead lift
154lbs x 12
176lbs x 12
198lbs x 10
198lbs x 8

Preacher
22 lbs x 12
44 lbs x 12
50 lbs x 12 x 3

Concerntration curl
55 lbs x 12
66 lbs x 12
77 lbs x 12 x 4 (failed left arm reps 3 and 4)

Bicep curl
55 lbs x 12
66 lbs x 12
77 lbs x 12 x 2

Hammer curl
77 lbs x 12
77 lbs x 8
77 lbs x 5

Abs various

Gym shut.

 

[flightposite]

looks good brother.