And now the moment you've all been waiting for Clenbutrx Hardcore

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Jda777

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SO... I did as instructed and took a sissy dose to assess my tolerance. I've been dieting for about 5 weeks. The first three were just diet and lifting, the last two were dieting more strictly, empty stomach cardio, in addition to supplementing the anarchy (minus the CLA) and and ECAY stack with significant results.

I am currently sitting on my couch, waiting for my Clenbutrx to kick in. I will be continuing the anarchy stack, cardio, and dieting.....so I will see if this supp is worth choosing over eca. Especially since I will probably go back to the eca for a couple of weeks after this trial is over.

I will keep you posted to energy levels etc....


PS. Yes, it does taste like ass, but anyone who won't take a supplement because of taste is a big vag imo. :)

Off to the treadmill.....
 

JaredGalloway

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keep up posted... looks like a solid supplement for fat loss...
 
Rugger

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sounds like a big ****in scam of a product
 
Jda777

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sounds like a big ****in scam of a product
So is everything else on the market chief, haha.

Prohormones are more dangerous and less effective then steroids.

NO2 makes you feel good but doesn't really do anything for muscle growth. Need I go on. Anyway, I feel nice and awake after putting up my dishes and my morning "release."

I'm gonna go ahead and take the full dose and then I'm out the door.
 
Rugger

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It's like Ford painting a Focus Ferrari Red and marketing it as a Ferrary.
 
Jda777

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It's like Ford painting a Focus Ferrari Red and marketing it as a Ferrary.
So you are angry about them using the old name I take it. Anyways, go whine in someone else's thread and let me conduct a little research for people who have been PM'ing me about this product. I'm not a rep and bought this with my own money, so they will get a straight shooter here.

Let's see what happens.

Energy was good for sure. Didn't open up the airways like the ephed w/ guaif but that is to be expected, as it isn't an asthma medication.

We'll see what lifting is like with it. I'm gonna buy some AAKG tabs and pop it with some creatine monohydrate to give it a fair shake with the pre-workout supps.

I'll keep you updated.
 
thebigt

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i'm in. vpx makes good stims.
 

jsp0785

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So is everything else on the market chief, haha.

Prohormones are more dangerous and less effective then steroids.

NO2 makes you feel good but doesn't really do anything for muscle growth. Need I go on. Anyway, I feel nice and awake after putting up my dishes and my morning "release."

I'm gonna go ahead and take the full dose and then I'm out the door.
i think he's talking about the fact that most supps who try to rip off the name of an illegal product are usually bogus garbage.
 
Jda777

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i think he's talking about the fact that most supps who try to rip off the name of an illegal product are usually bogus garbage.
I don't know what you are talking about, but the original "Clenbutrx" was supposedly amazing, so I don't know if the philosophy you speak of, is one I would embrace.
 
Cinn

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sounds like a big ****in scam of a product
No kidding. Marketing something by ripping a name off of another compound and making it kewl to catch attention = lame.

I'll stick to buying actual clenbuterol, which is cheaper and more effective.
 
Jda777

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Okay, so I just bought some "SUPER NOS PUMP" from walmart when I was picking up some groceries. It contains 3g of AAKG per serving (2 of which are L-arginine)

A serving is 3 pills, but I will take 5, ----- with 5 g of cre mono, and 5mL of liquid ass and let you know how the workout goes.
 
Jda777

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No kidding. Marketing something by ripping a name off of another compound and making it kewl to catch attention = lame.

I'll stick to buying actual clenbuterol, which is cheaper and more effective.
However, clenbuterol also yielded three very negative changes. First, after just four weeks, clenbuterol-treated rats were unable to maintain their normal swimming or running training intensities, while clean rodents were quite capable of continuing. Secondly, the hearts of the clenbuterol-taking, trained rats increased dramatically in size compared to the hearts of sedentary rats, but the heart expansion was probably due to the infiltration of collagen fibres into the heart walls, not an increase in heart-muscle cells. Collagen is a tough connective tissue which doesn't augment heart-muscle power but in fact stiffens the heart, potentially leading to a decrease in cardiac output. Increases in collagen may also produce cardiac arrhythmias. Thirdly, clenbuterol rats suffered from noticeable cardiac-cell degeneration.
(http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0176.htm)



You may not think you are a rat, but some people might. :laugh:


Bottom line, I've done the real deal, I noticed an increased pump using it. I also noticed it made my calves cramp, and read about a lot of bad long term sides.

I have decided at my ripe old age of 26, that I may want to limit the chemicals I put into my body. Just giving this a shot for a couple weeks.

Thanks for the input you negative nancys.
 

jsp0785

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I don't know what you are talking about, but the original "Clenbutrx" was supposedly amazing, so I don't know if the philosophy you speak of, is one I would embrace.
i didn't say all i said most. and i've heard that cell-tech is amazing... don't know till ya try it.
 
Cinn

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However, clenbuterol also yielded three very negative changes. First, after just four weeks, clenbuterol-treated rats were unable to maintain their normal swimming or running training intensities, while clean rodents were quite capable of continuing. Secondly, the hearts of the clenbuterol-taking, trained rats increased dramatically in size compared to the hearts of sedentary rats, but the heart expansion was probably due to the infiltration of collagen fibres into the heart walls, not an increase in heart-muscle cells. Collagen is a tough connective tissue which doesn't augment heart-muscle power but in fact stiffens the heart, potentially leading to a decrease in cardiac output. Increases in collagen may also produce cardiac arrhythmias. Thirdly, clenbuterol rats suffered from noticeable cardiac-cell degeneration.
(http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0176.htm)



You may not think you are a rat, but some people might. :laugh:


Bottom line, I've done the real deal, I noticed an increased pump using it. I also noticed it made my calves cramp, and read about a lot of bad long term sides.

I have decided at my ripe old age of 26, that I may want to limit the chemicals I put into my body. Just giving this a shot for a couple weeks.

Thanks for the input you negative nancys.
It's important to go straight to peer-reviewed data when evaluating something. That article from your link is piss-poor.

Doses shown to be anabolic(note: this includes cardiac muscle) in animal models are MUCH higher than supplemental human doses. Cardiotoxicity has been linked to taurine depletion(again, keep in mind these are much higher doses than would be used for fat loss purposes). Supplement with taurine for peace of mind RE that and it'll also help with the calf cramping. Bump up your electrolytes and that will help also.

I can understand you wanting to limit the things you ingest. I was just pointing out that it's lame IMO(on the manufacturer's part) to bank off of a name like that by appealing to the ignorant[average gym-goer] masses when it's not even similar.
 
Jda777

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It's important to go straight to peer-reviewed data when evaluating something. That article from your link is piss-poor.

Doses shown to be anabolic(note: this includes cardiac muscle) in animal models are MUCH higher than supplemental human doses. Cardiotoxicity has been linked to taurine depletion(again, keep in mind these are much higher doses than would be used for fat loss purposes). Supplement with taurine for peace of mind RE that and it'll also help with the calf cramping. Bump up your electrolytes and that will help also.

I can understand you wanting to limit the things you ingest. I was just pointing out that it's lame IMO(on the manufacturer's part) to bank off of a name like that by appealing to the ignorant[average gym-goer] masses when it's not even similar.

I really don't care what you think of the name...it's their way of marketing. I'm just seeing if the drug helps with cutting or not. I think that is something everyone is interested in....

I supplemented with taurine when I took it, fyi. I read everything I can on stuff before I put it into my body. You can decide what level of clen is safe for your heart. I'll choose none.

The rats, although maybe dosing at higher amounts per kilo, got jacked up in four weeks. How many weeks of your life do you plan on taking clen....all I'm saying.
 
Jda777

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Oh and btw - The walmart aakg gave me some solid pumps. $10 for 30 servings - let's see these supp companies try that. LOL!

I took 5 pills, so almost 2 servings, but stack that with an ECA, and you've got a great cutting/pre workout stack.
 
Cinn

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You can decide what level of clen is safe for your heart. I'll choose none.

The rats, although maybe dosing at higher amounts per kilo, got jacked up in four weeks. How many weeks of your life do you plan on taking clen....all I'm saying.
Understanding dose-response curves is important to interpreting data.
 
Jda777

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Understanding dose-response curves is important to interpreting data.
Show me a long term study of clen, and its effects on the human heart. Otherwise, I'm gonna stay away. I guarantee you it is having a negative impact on your heart's health. Whether you choose to believe or not is irrelevant.
 
WhatsaRoid?

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Oh and btw - The walmart aakg gave me some solid pumps. $10 for 30 servings - let's see these supp companies try that. LOL!

I took 5 pills, so almost 2 servings, but stack that with an ECA, and you've got a great cutting/pre workout stack.
Great review and I'm digging the arguments I'm on clen now :bandit:
 
Jda777

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Great review and I'm digging the arguments I'm on clen now :bandit:
Plenty of people take clen, I was one once upon a time. The things you don't think about now will haunt you later. I'm just saying, I would not always look to clen (the real stuff) whenever you are looking to cut.

I've realized in my years of trial and error, that having your diet 100% is the biggest thing.(I used to think I ate "clean" - but you need to be counting everything you take in - ALWAYS) Forget all the crap about supplements. If you want to get shredded, that should be perfect. I count calories, proteins, carbs, and fats. I take in exactly the amount I should everyday without fail. After starting a log of all my foods, and eating the right one's(with morning cardio) the fat started melting off.

Why F up your heart when you can do it without that junk. I think taking clen is stupid (no offense WHATSAROID - that is not directed at you) because getting lean can be accomplished just as easily having everything else in check.
 
Cinn

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I guarantee you it is having a negative impact on your heart's health. Whether you choose to believe or not is irrelevant.
Guarantee me with peer-reviewed literature. Whether you choose to use relevant data to back up claims is relevant.
 
Cinn

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Get out of my thread you nerd.
...typical response when brotelligence is challenged. Instead of getting annoyed or discouraged, why not step up to the plate and have a good evidence-based discussion? We're all here to learn.
 
mooch2321

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ok...neither one of you are very good at e-thugging....there is an a$$load of info out there on clen to support either one of your points of view....either fight right or give it up....on the other hand i did get to use the old clenbutrx, and im convinced it had clen in it. The new one is nothing compared to the old but still pretty nice....in the climate we have today id say it will do well...not a whole lot of good fat burners out there anymore...
 

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Jda777

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...typical response when brotelligence is challenged. Instead of getting annoyed or discouraged, why not step up to the plate and have a good evidence-based discussion? We're all here to learn.
Because this is not a discussion about the illegal compound that you are talking about....it is about a legal fat burner.

If you want to start a thread about clen, I will be happy to join you if you wish.

Otherwise, take it elsewhere.
 
TZachM420

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I have been on clenbutrx hardcore for the last 9 days, and with a clean, 1800 cal a day diet I'm down 8 pounds. I've done several cycles of clenbuterol, and in my opinion the sides outweigh the benefits. On clenbuterol I was always shaking, I felt (and was) weak, and I got ridiculous cramping. Keep in mind this is during a tapered dose cycle during which the max I was taking was 120 mcg per day, and I'm a pretty big boy.
I was looking to go back to an ECA stack when I found clenbutrx hardcore in my email, and yeah, I hated the name too, but I liked the ingredient list so I tried some. I have my own thread about it now, but if you ask me, I like the stuff, and I've used all sorts of stims. It does taste like ass mixed with death though... Anyhow, continue JDA, I'm curious.
 
Jda777

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Day two,

Taking my morning dose - 5mL.

I find chasing it with my BCAA concoction gets the taste out pretty quick, so no worries.

I will be heading to Manhattan today, from Dallas, but I don't plan on having more than a couple cheat meals this entire week, and I already called a gym up there to make sure I would have a place to work out.

Time for some cardio.
 
Jda777

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Dear Jda777,

You have received an infraction at AnabolicMinds.com Forum.

Reason: Relax. And its not your thread.
-------

-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/122328-now-moment-youve.html#post1903546
Guarantee me with peer-reviewed literature. Whether you choose to use relevant data to back up claims is relevant.
Get out of my thread you nerd.
All the best,
AnabolicMinds.com Forum
I am relaxed. And it is my thread...I started it. I didn't say people other than myself can't post in it.

He kept coming into the thread and arguing about how the supplement was crap (even though he had never tried it) and telling people they should use the illegal compound clenbuterol because it is perfectly healthy. You benefit from people reviewing legal compounds, ...correct? Why don't you do a little research on the types of posts he makes, and the types of posts I make, and see which are more constructive, and which are more inflammatory and report back to me. This topical investigation and scolding is unjust....but do what you want it's your site. I already know what I need to do to reach my goals. I am just trying to help others.
 
Cinn

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He kept coming into the thread and arguing about how the supplement was crap (even though he had never tried it)
Actually, I never said anything about the quality of the supplement. I only commented on the name.

and telling people they should use the illegal compound clenbuterol because it is perfectly healthy.
I didn't suggest that anyone use it. I only pointed out that your knowledge on clen seemed to be based on unreliable sources and had holes.


Would you like to try any more straw man arguments?
 
Jda777

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All posts from Cinn will be ignored. I will continue my logging of this product.
 
Jda777

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Run was good today - I alternated between 7 mph at 0% grade and 4.2mph at 15% grade. (25 min)

Then I moved over to the spin class style bike (20 min)


Nothing compares to the "second wind" or hurricane I should say, from the ECA, but hopefully some of the ingredients will burn some calories via thermo or increased metabolism.
 
joeymutz

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I am relaxed. And it is my thread...I started it. I didn't say people other than myself can't post in it.

He kept coming into the thread and arguing about how the supplement was crap (even though he had never tried it) and telling people they should use the illegal compound clenbuterol because it is perfectly healthy. You benefit from people reviewing legal compounds, ...correct? Why don't you do a little research on the types of posts he makes, and the types of posts I make, and see which are more constructive, and which are more inflammatory and report back to me. This topical investigation and scolding is unjust....but do what you want it's your site. I already know what I need to do to reach my goals. I am just trying to help others.
WTF is this all about? I wonder who the admin was that sent u this. Kind of lame if you ask me.
 
mixedup

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sounds like a big ****in scam of a product
Have you read the ingredient list? it's actually very good. it's one of the few fat burners out at the moment that has alpha yohimbe and their liquid delivery has been proven for years even before the ban but that was before your time i think you were like 17 so you might not remember those products.

ON the Taste does it have a spearmint tast like it says?? the original had a weird sort of cinamon taste
 
TZachM420

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Yeah this stuff tastes like cinnamon mixed with dirt and cough syrup.
 
mattikus

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Jda log on brother. I understand you wish to just log this for the people, and I for one appreciate it. Ignore the silliness,, Subbed..
 
Jda777

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Jda log on brother. I understand you wish to just log this for the people, and I for one appreciate it. Ignore the silliness,, Subbed..
In NY this week. It is a little cold, but that didn't stop me from doing 35 min of empty stomach cardio w/ my bcaas and 5mL of Clenbutrx. The feeling I get from it is good, but once again, eca opens me up significantly more. As far as energy, it's good, but I'm not very stim responsive typically. My main hope is that it will do something for my metabolism. My body gets a little warm from the stuff, but nothing crazy.
 
thebigt

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dallas to manhattan, nice trip. keep up the good work, unbiased reviews are always welcome.
 
Dwight Schrute

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WTF is this all about? I wonder who the admin was that sent u this. Kind of lame if you ask me.
Nobody was asking you.


Calling someone a "nerd" and telling someone to leave isn't going to fly. Its not "his" thread and he doesn't decide who stays or leaves.

If you give your opinion on something or try to make your case and someone offers to counter your opinion you don't call them a "nerd" for interpreting a study then tell them to get out.

If we followed that logic then the stereotypes of you all being meatheads would be true.

I suggest those who receive infractions read what they are and how to handle them because if you don't, you won't be around much longer.
 
Dwight Schrute

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I am relaxed. And it is my thread...I started it. I didn't say people other than myself can't post in it.

He kept coming into the thread and arguing about how the supplement was crap (even though he had never tried it) and telling people they should use the illegal compound clenbuterol because it is perfectly healthy. You benefit from people reviewing legal compounds, ...correct? Why don't you do a little research on the types of posts he makes, and the types of posts I make, and see which are more constructive, and which are more inflammatory and report back to me. This topical investigation and scolding is unjust....but do what you want it's your site. I already know what I need to do to reach my goals. I am just trying to help others.
I don't care if you started it. I don't care what your post history is. I don't care what you think is unjust. I don't care how you see the situation. I dont' need to report to you on his posts. I think you need to read the rules and follow what it says about infractiosn then report back to me.

Here is a hint:

"User infractions are given to those who violate the rules of the board. Essentially they are warnings and should be looked upon as an opportunity to read the rules. User infractions are not up for debate and questioning the judgements of MODS will not be tolerated.

If you receive an infraction, read the rules to go over what you violated, take your medicine and move on. The infraction will expire after time and the issue is a done deal. Continued violation of the rules will result in a ban."



If you get personal and tell people to get out of your thread, which isn't your thread, you are getting an infraction and if you complain and bitch and want to ignore it then you will be shown the exit. You are a guest. You agreed to follow the rules when you signed up. If you don't like it, you are free to leave. If you want to complain about infractions and how "unjust" they are, its going to fall on deaf ears and you will be shown the door.
 
Iron Lungz

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All posts from Cinn will be ignored. I will continue my logging of this product.
Why? I don't understand your logic. He is being very analytical and respectful in his approach. Try it sometimes, it may yield you more understanding of things, if not yourself.

By the way, I wouldn't challenge, nor post your infractions for public eye.
 
Jda777

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Why? I don't understand your logic. He is being very analytical and respectful in his approach. Try it sometimes, it may yield you more understanding of things, if not yourself.

By the way, I wouldn't challenge, nor post your infractions for public eye.
Let me explain, the thread is about a product called Clenbutrx. Not clenbuterol. They are two totally different compounds. The former is legal, and is being reviewed by me.

As for him being analytical, aside from him being completely off topic, he offered no evidence that the product was safe.

The rats were given 1-1.5 mcg per kilo of body weight. For those that don't know what a kilo is, it is approx 2.2 lbs.

So if there was a 200lb human ingesting 90-135mcg they would be dosing at the same levels as the rats that got F'ed up.

I honestly don't care if you guys decide to drink diesel fuel. I'm pretty sure there aren't any peer reviewed studies denouncing it, so Cinn may be down to try it if you tell him it will build muscle.

I see a lot of young aspiring athletes and bodybuilders on this site, and felt that I was obligated to tell them that the compound is not safe regardless of what Joe Shmo on the internet tells you. But do whatever you want, I have nothing to lose by you harming your long term health. Try the diesel thing and start a log. I'd be curious to know the outcome.....
 
WhatsaRoid?

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Plenty of people take clen, I was one once upon a time. The things you don't think about now will haunt you later. I'm just saying, I would not always look to clen (the real stuff) whenever you are looking to cut.

I've realized in my years of trial and error, that having your diet 100% is the biggest thing.(I used to think I ate "clean" - but you need to be counting everything you take in - ALWAYS) Forget all the crap about supplements. If you want to get shredded, that should be perfect. I count calories, proteins, carbs, and fats. I take in exactly the amount I should everyday without fail. After starting a log of all my foods, and eating the right one's(with morning cardio) the fat started melting off.

Why F up your heart when you can do it without that junk. I think taking clen is stupid (no offense WHATSAROID - that is not directed at you) because getting lean can be accomplished just as easily having everything else in check.
Dude, coming from you I'll take that advice...Can I se yopur food log or an example of it so I can keep the same. Do you have a training log or anything like that? Your in great shape and any advice you have is greatly appreciated
 
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Bodybuilders and other athletes have long sought an effective pharmaceutical means of shedding body fat. Historically, three agents have been most highly regarded as fat-burning drugs; they are clenbuterol, Cytomel (T3) and dinitrophenol (DNP). Of these three, only Cytomel is clinically used in the United States, and only for rare conditions of thyroid disease, not as a weight loss agent. All three of these drugs have been shown to have dangerous side effects.

Potential for Harm
The most widely abused of the three drugs is clenbuterol. In part, this is due to the report that clenbuterol is anabolic in animals, as well as a potent fat-burner, though the anabolic effect seems to be minimal or absent in humans.1 While clenbuterol is used by many athletes, it has found favor with female athletes and entertainers because it is not androgenic, and will therefore not cause the unwanted side effects seen with steroid abuse.2
Most experienced users of clenbuterol realize it is a drug with limited effect, and they schedule its use for brief periods, typically using a two-days-on/ two-days-off cycle. This on-and-off schedule is necessary, as clenbuterol causes a rapid down-regulation of the receptors that are responsible for its actions.3 In other words, clenbuterol will quickly "burn out" the cells and stop working with prolonged use.

However, as use of clenbuterol spreads, less knowledgeable users gain access to the drug, and "inappropriate" use becomes common. The problem is magnified by the fact that clenbuterol users obtain the drug from illicit, black market sources and do not seek professional advice regarding its use, risks or side effects. The risk of harm is greatly increased when the drug is used indiscriminately, or for prolonged periods.

Most of the safety data on clenbuterol has been obtained using animal studies, due in part to its high-risk profile. There are published reports of humans suffering serious consequences with clenbuterol abuse, including overdose and heart attack, but these effects are primarily related to short-term exposure.4,5

A Study of Horses
Recently, a study was published based on an investigation of chronic (long-term) use of clenbuterol and its effect on heart function in exercising horses.6 The horse may not seem like a good comparison to humans for issues like drug abuse, but in actuality, the horse is an excellent model to use when investigating effects related to exercise.

This study was designed to evaluate any effects of clenbuterol, given five days per week, on the heart size or function of exercising horses. The horses used a treadmill at various speeds for 20 minutes a day, three days per week, and the hearts were examined by echocardiography, which allows the heart to be viewed and measured on a monitor.

The investigators discovered that after eight weeks of clenbuterol treatment, the hearts of the horses had undergone structural changes, which made them work less efficiently and also made them more prone to certain heart problems. These changes were only evident immediately following exercise, when the heart was working harder, but the authors of the study felt that the changes might have become more apparent after a longer treatment period. The data from the study also showed that the VO2 max of the clenbuterol treated horses was lower, suggesting that they would become more easily fatigued and have a lower exercise tolerance.

Sadly, the study did not collect data on changes in blood pressure in the animals, leaving some of the results open to interpretation. Previous animal studies, predominantly on mice and rats, have shown significant changes in heart size, with the heart muscle hypertrophy keeping pace with the anabolic effect on other muscles.7,8 There is some contention as to whether this change in heart size affects function and if it is "negative" growth (pathologic) versus positive growth (physiologic). Several of the studies have determined through measures of RNA, protein content or enzyme levels that the change is physiologic, or a "good" growth. However, none of these studies have shown improved cardiovascular performance as a consequence of the clenbuterol induced changes.9

The Alternative
The demonstration of the decrease in VO2 max in the horse study is significant because it verifies earlier findings by other investigators that clenbuterol makes animals more easily fatigued, thus indicating that the changes may not be positive, but rather would make the person or animal more likely to suffer from the effects of exercise or stress.10,11 These findings will be the focus of another report scheduled for publication by the same group.12

Considering the immediate, short-term health risks of clenbuterol, the potential long-term health risks and the legal consequences of purchasing or using the drug, one should consider other safer, legal alternatives. It might seem ridiculous to those who have experienced the immediate short-term effect of clenbuterol, but there is an alternative that works as effectively over a longer period, that is currently legal and has recently been shown to be relatively safe, when used as directed. That alternative is ephedrine and caffeine combinations, often referred to as E/C stacks.

Ephedrine and caffeine combinations have a large body of evidence proving their efficacy in promoting fat loss.13,14 Currently, the only over-the-counter sources of E/C stacks are herbal preparations, typically consisting of Ma Huang and Kola Nut or Guarana, standardized for the ephedrine and caffeine content. The legal and ethical status of these products have been the source of much controversy, as a number of adverse events, including several cases of sudden death, have been attributed to the use of such products. Reviews of the cases where harm has been alleged have been mixed, and thus they remain available for retail purchase.

A recent published study looked at the safety of the herbal E/C stacks.15 After six months' use, no adverse events or negative side effects could be attributed to the use of herbal E/C stacks, leading the authors to conclude, "... herbal ephedra/caffeine herbal supplements, when used as directed by healthy overweight men and women in combination with healthy diet and exercise habits, may be beneficial for weight reduction without significantly increased risk of adverse events." While the authors caution that negative consequences could be seen with unsupervised use or over-use, the results of this study, and others suggests that E/C stacks may offer a safe and legal alternative to the much riskier, illegal and possibly less effective use of clenbuterol.

Summing Up
Clenbuterol has long been used to drop body fat by athletes and entertainers, as it has been shown in animal studies to be a potent "fat burner" with some limited anabolic effect. However, considering that the "proper" use of clenbuterol for fat loss requires certain knowledge that may be common among the more sophisticated underground users, the potential for it to be used incorrectly is great, especially as its abuse spreads to the mainstream public.

Clenbuterol has been associated with serious health consequences, including overdose and sudden death. The long-term effect of clenbuterol use on heart function was not previously studied, but it is known to cause the heart to grow, an effect that was felt to be "positive" representing a stronger heart. However, the study reviewed above shows that not only does the heart grow in ways that make it more prone to certain types of heart damage, but cardiovascular function is also compromised, making the animals more easily fatigued.

Given that clenbuterol is illegal, has both long and short-term health risks and does not promote prolonged loss of body fat, it is not a suitable choice for fat loss. Ephedrine and caffeine combinations have been shown to be safe and effective, with sustained fat loss in numerous studies. A great deal of controversy has been raised over the safety of E/C stacks, especially the less regulated herbal products. A recent landmark study has shown that use of herbal E/C stacks is reasonably safe and effective, when used as directed. These two studies should reinforce a decision to choose the safer and legal alternative of herbal E/C stacks, rather than to use the riskier, illegal drug, clenbuterol.

References
1. Awede BL, Thissen JP, et al. Role of IGF-1 and IGFBPs in the changes of mass and phenotype induced in rat soleus muscle by clenbuterol. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2002;282(1):E31-7.
2. Prather ID, Brown DE, et al. Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids? Med Sci Sports Exerc 1995;27(8):1118-21.
3. Newman-Tancredi A, Verriele L, et al. Down regulation of rat beta-adrenoceptors by clenbuterol or desipramine does not require chronic treatment: [3H] CGP-12177 binding reveals rapid (24 hour) modulation. Brain Res Bull 1996;41(2):93-6.
4. Chodorowski Z, Sein Anand J. Acute poisoning with clenbuterol - a case report. Przegl Lek 1997;54(10):763-4.
5. Goldstein DR, Dobbs T, et al. Clenbuterol and anabolic steroids: A previously unreported cause of myocardial infarction with normal coronary arteriograms. South Med J 1998;91(8):780-4.
6. Sleeper MM, Kearns CF, et al. Chronic clenbuterol administration negatively alters cardiac function. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2002;34(4):643-50.
7. Petrou M, Wynne DG, et al. Clenbuterol induces hypertrophy of the latissimus dorsi muscle and heart in the rat with molecular and phenotypic changes. Circulation 1995;92(9 Suppl):II483-9.
8. Lynch GS, Hinkle RT, et al. Year-long clenbuterol treatment of mice increases mass, but not specific force or normalized power, of skeletal muscles. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol 1999;26(2):117-20.
9. Wong K, Boheler KR, et al. Clenbuterol induces cardiac hypertrophy with normal functional, morphological and molecular features. Cardiovasc Res 1998;37(1):115-22.
10. Suzuki J, Gao M, et al. Effects of the beta-2 adrenergic agonist clenbuterol on capillary geometry in cardiac and skeletal muscles in young and middle-aged rats. Acta Physiol Scand 1997;161(3):317-26.
11. Dupont-Versteegden EE, Katz MS et al. Beneficial versus adverse effects of long-term use of clenbuterol in mdx mice. Muscle Nerve 1995;18(12):1447-59.
12. Kearns CF, McKeever KH (submitted). Clenbuterol administration disrupts central mechanisms of aerobic performance in the horse. Med Sci Sports Exerc.
13. Toubro S, Astrup AV, et al. Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993;17(Suppl 1):S69-S72.
14. Daly PA, Krieger DR, et al. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993;17(Suppl 1):S73-S78.
15. Boozer CN, Daly PA, et al. Herbal ephedra/caffeine for weight loss: a 6-month randomized safety and efficacy trial. Int J Obes 2002;26:593-604.

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/604/116/
 
Jda777

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Don't be a smart ass.
from: AK32408


Thanks dude! I didn't know I could get negative repp'd. LOL! You're killing my street cred bro.

You don't have to like me, but I know what I'm talking about.
 

vadox6466

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VPX supps won't even give you half the gains most supplements will. They are complete idiots. Every company in the world is trying to make sublingual supplements more water-soluble so that they can be absorbed through the mucous membrane, VPX is the only one trying to make it more fat-soluble so it can pass through the membrane at all. I mean, am I the only one seeing the irony in pricing idiocy three times higher than a decent supp ?

Then of course VPX probably figures, for every sucker they can dupe once, they have paid for three. That will probably land them enough cash to retrire by the time everybody knows how much they suck.
 
Jda777

Jda777

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Hey man, there's no need for talking to him like that, take it easy.
from: tim1985

Neg rep two.

Dang, if this was survivor, I'd have been voted off by the alliance.
 
Jda777

Jda777

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VPX supps won't even give you half the gains most supplements will. They are complete idiots. Every company in the world is trying to make sublingual supplements more water-soluble so that they can be absorbed through the mucous membrane, VPX is the only one trying to make it more fat-soluble so it can pass through the membrane at all. I mean, am I the only one seeing the irony in pricing idiocy three times higher than a decent supp ?

Then of course VPX probably figures, for every sucker they can dupe once, they have paid for three. That will probably land them enough cash to retrire by the time everybody knows how much they suck.
Plagiarize much? That was from a bodybuilding.com post in 2001. I'd say VPX has made a name for themselves since then. Pretty crazy you plagiarized an 8 yr old post. :laugh:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=1196&postcount=4

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=1196&postcount=4
 
Iron Lungz

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from: AK32408


Thanks dude! I didn't know I could get negative repp'd. LOL! You're killing my street cred bro.

You don't have to like me, but I know what I'm talking about.
from: tim1985

Neg rep two.

Dang, if this was survivor, I'd have been voted off by the alliance.
Why are you sharing this? First it was the infraction, now the neg's that you have received...
 
Jda777

Jda777

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Why are you sharing this? First it was the infraction, now the neg's that you have received...
Why would I not?

I wasn't going to share the infraction, but it wouldn't let me reply back so I posted it because I had already typed that long thing up.

As far as the neg reps, I think they are ridiculous seeing that I was just trying to give young people the facts about dangerous drugs. If people think that my credibility or "rep" should be lowered because of it, so be it. It's a bulletin board. I think some people get obsessed with the whole rep thing - it's a non-factor for me.

Rep does not = knowledge, as I have come to find out.
 
TexasLifter89

TexasLifter89

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im checking this out. Looking at it
 
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