And now the moment you've all been waiting for Clenbutrx Hardcore
- 04-08-2009, 03:29 PM
As for him being analytical, aside from him being completely off topic, he offered no evidence that the product was safe.
The rats were given 1-1.5 mcg per kilo of body weight. For those that don't know what a kilo is, it is approx 2.2 lbs.
So if there was a 200lb human ingesting 90-135mcg they would be dosing at the same levels as the rats that got F'ed up.
I honestly don't care if you guys decide to drink diesel fuel. I'm pretty sure there aren't any peer reviewed studies denouncing it, so Cinn may be down to try it if you tell him it will build muscle.
I see a lot of young aspiring athletes and bodybuilders on this site, and felt that I was obligated to tell them that the compound is not safe regardless of what Joe Shmo on the internet tells you. But do whatever you want, I have nothing to lose by you harming your long term health. Try the diesel thing and start a log. I'd be curious to know the outcome.....
- 04-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
FACEBOOK FAN PAGE: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Applie...ls/64122223218
- 04-08-2009, 04:34 PM
Bodybuilders and other athletes have long sought an effective pharmaceutical means of shedding body fat. Historically, three agents have been most highly regarded as fat-burning drugs; they are clenbuterol, Cytomel (T3) and dinitrophenol (DNP). Of these three, only Cytomel is clinically used in the United States, and only for rare conditions of thyroid disease, not as a weight loss agent. All three of these drugs have been shown to have dangerous side effects.
Potential for Harm
The most widely abused of the three drugs is clenbuterol. In part, this is due to the report that clenbuterol is anabolic in animals, as well as a potent fat-burner, though the anabolic effect seems to be minimal or absent in humans.1 While clenbuterol is used by many athletes, it has found favor with female athletes and entertainers because it is not androgenic, and will therefore not cause the unwanted side effects seen with steroid abuse.2
Most experienced users of clenbuterol realize it is a drug with limited effect, and they schedule its use for brief periods, typically using a two-days-on/ two-days-off cycle. This on-and-off schedule is necessary, as clenbuterol causes a rapid down-regulation of the receptors that are responsible for its actions.3 In other words, clenbuterol will quickly "burn out" the cells and stop working with prolonged use.
However, as use of clenbuterol spreads, less knowledgeable users gain access to the drug, and "inappropriate" use becomes common. The problem is magnified by the fact that clenbuterol users obtain the drug from illicit, black market sources and do not seek professional advice regarding its use, risks or side effects. The risk of harm is greatly increased when the drug is used indiscriminately, or for prolonged periods.
Most of the safety data on clenbuterol has been obtained using animal studies, due in part to its high-risk profile. There are published reports of humans suffering serious consequences with clenbuterol abuse, including overdose and heart attack, but these effects are primarily related to short-term exposure.4,5
A Study of Horses
Recently, a study was published based on an investigation of chronic (long-term) use of clenbuterol and its effect on heart function in exercising horses.6 The horse may not seem like a good comparison to humans for issues like drug abuse, but in actuality, the horse is an excellent model to use when investigating effects related to exercise.
This study was designed to evaluate any effects of clenbuterol, given five days per week, on the heart size or function of exercising horses. The horses used a treadmill at various speeds for 20 minutes a day, three days per week, and the hearts were examined by echocardiography, which allows the heart to be viewed and measured on a monitor.
The investigators discovered that after eight weeks of clenbuterol treatment, the hearts of the horses had undergone structural changes, which made them work less efficiently and also made them more prone to certain heart problems. These changes were only evident immediately following exercise, when the heart was working harder, but the authors of the study felt that the changes might have become more apparent after a longer treatment period. The data from the study also showed that the VO2 max of the clenbuterol treated horses was lower, suggesting that they would become more easily fatigued and have a lower exercise tolerance.
Sadly, the study did not collect data on changes in blood pressure in the animals, leaving some of the results open to interpretation. Previous animal studies, predominantly on mice and rats, have shown significant changes in heart size, with the heart muscle hypertrophy keeping pace with the anabolic effect on other muscles.7,8 There is some contention as to whether this change in heart size affects function and if it is "negative" growth (pathologic) versus positive growth (physiologic). Several of the studies have determined through measures of RNA, protein content or enzyme levels that the change is physiologic, or a "good" growth. However, none of these studies have shown improved cardiovascular performance as a consequence of the clenbuterol induced changes.9
The demonstration of the decrease in VO2 max in the horse study is significant because it verifies earlier findings by other investigators that clenbuterol makes animals more easily fatigued, thus indicating that the changes may not be positive, but rather would make the person or animal more likely to suffer from the effects of exercise or stress.10,11 These findings will be the focus of another report scheduled for publication by the same group.12
Considering the immediate, short-term health risks of clenbuterol, the potential long-term health risks and the legal consequences of purchasing or using the drug, one should consider other safer, legal alternatives. It might seem ridiculous to those who have experienced the immediate short-term effect of clenbuterol, but there is an alternative that works as effectively over a longer period, that is currently legal and has recently been shown to be relatively safe, when used as directed. That alternative is ephedrine and caffeine combinations, often referred to as E/C stacks.
Ephedrine and caffeine combinations have a large body of evidence proving their efficacy in promoting fat loss.13,14 Currently, the only over-the-counter sources of E/C stacks are herbal preparations, typically consisting of Ma Huang and Kola Nut or Guarana, standardized for the ephedrine and caffeine content. The legal and ethical status of these products have been the source of much controversy, as a number of adverse events, including several cases of sudden death, have been attributed to the use of such products. Reviews of the cases where harm has been alleged have been mixed, and thus they remain available for retail purchase.
A recent published study looked at the safety of the herbal E/C stacks.15 After six months' use, no adverse events or negative side effects could be attributed to the use of herbal E/C stacks, leading the authors to conclude, "... herbal ephedra/caffeine herbal supplements, when used as directed by healthy overweight men and women in combination with healthy diet and exercise habits, may be beneficial for weight reduction without significantly increased risk of adverse events." While the authors caution that negative consequences could be seen with unsupervised use or over-use, the results of this study, and others suggests that E/C stacks may offer a safe and legal alternative to the much riskier, illegal and possibly less effective use of clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol has long been used to drop body fat by athletes and entertainers, as it has been shown in animal studies to be a potent "fat burner" with some limited anabolic effect. However, considering that the "proper" use of clenbuterol for fat loss requires certain knowledge that may be common among the more sophisticated underground users, the potential for it to be used incorrectly is great, especially as its abuse spreads to the mainstream public.
Clenbuterol has been associated with serious health consequences, including overdose and sudden death. The long-term effect of clenbuterol use on heart function was not previously studied, but it is known to cause the heart to grow, an effect that was felt to be "positive" representing a stronger heart. However, the study reviewed above shows that not only does the heart grow in ways that make it more prone to certain types of heart damage, but cardiovascular function is also compromised, making the animals more easily fatigued.
Given that clenbuterol is illegal, has both long and short-term health risks and does not promote prolonged loss of body fat, it is not a suitable choice for fat loss. Ephedrine and caffeine combinations have been shown to be safe and effective, with sustained fat loss in numerous studies. A great deal of controversy has been raised over the safety of E/C stacks, especially the less regulated herbal products. A recent landmark study has shown that use of herbal E/C stacks is reasonably safe and effective, when used as directed. These two studies should reinforce a decision to choose the safer and legal alternative of herbal E/C stacks, rather than to use the riskier, illegal drug, clenbuterol.
1. Awede BL, Thissen JP, et al. Role of IGF-1 and IGFBPs in the changes of mass and phenotype induced in rat soleus muscle by clenbuterol. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2002;282(1):E31-7.
2. Prather ID, Brown DE, et al. Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids? Med Sci Sports Exerc 1995;27(8):1118-21.
3. Newman-Tancredi A, Verriele L, et al. Down regulation of rat beta-adrenoceptors by clenbuterol or desipramine does not require chronic treatment: [3H] CGP-12177 binding reveals rapid (24 hour) modulation. Brain Res Bull 1996;41(2):93-6.
4. Chodorowski Z, Sein Anand J. Acute poisoning with clenbuterol - a case report. Przegl Lek 1997;54(10):763-4.
5. Goldstein DR, Dobbs T, et al. Clenbuterol and anabolic steroids: A previously unreported cause of myocardial infarction with normal coronary arteriograms. South Med J 1998;91(8):780-4.
6. Sleeper MM, Kearns CF, et al. Chronic clenbuterol administration negatively alters cardiac function. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2002;34(4):643-50.
7. Petrou M, Wynne DG, et al. Clenbuterol induces hypertrophy of the latissimus dorsi muscle and heart in the rat with molecular and phenotypic changes. Circulation 1995;92(9 Suppl):II483-9.
8. Lynch GS, Hinkle RT, et al. Year-long clenbuterol treatment of mice increases mass, but not specific force or normalized power, of skeletal muscles. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol 1999;26(2):117-20.
9. Wong K, Boheler KR, et al. Clenbuterol induces cardiac hypertrophy with normal functional, morphological and molecular features. Cardiovasc Res 1998;37(1):115-22.
10. Suzuki J, Gao M, et al. Effects of the beta-2 adrenergic agonist clenbuterol on capillary geometry in cardiac and skeletal muscles in young and middle-aged rats. Acta Physiol Scand 1997;161(3):317-26.
11. Dupont-Versteegden EE, Katz MS et al. Beneficial versus adverse effects of long-term use of clenbuterol in mdx mice. Muscle Nerve 1995;18(12):1447-59.
12. Kearns CF, McKeever KH (submitted). Clenbuterol administration disrupts central mechanisms of aerobic performance in the horse. Med Sci Sports Exerc.
13. Toubro S, Astrup AV, et al. Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993;17(Suppl 1):S69-S72.
14. Daly PA, Krieger DR, et al. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993;17(Suppl 1):S73-S78.
15. Boozer CN, Daly PA, et al. Herbal ephedra/caffeine for weight loss: a 6-month randomized safety and efficacy trial. Int J Obes 2002;26:593-604.
04-08-2009, 04:44 PM
from: AK32408Don't be a smart ass.
Thanks dude! I didn't know I could get negative repp'd. LOL! You're killing my street cred bro.
You don't have to like me, but I know what I'm talking about.
04-08-2009, 04:51 PM
VPX supps won't even give you half the gains most supplements will. They are complete idiots. Every company in the world is trying to make sublingual supplements more water-soluble so that they can be absorbed through the mucous membrane, VPX is the only one trying to make it more fat-soluble so it can pass through the membrane at all. I mean, am I the only one seeing the irony in pricing idiocy three times higher than a decent supp ?
Then of course VPX probably figures, for every sucker they can dupe once, they have paid for three. That will probably land them enough cash to retrire by the time everybody knows how much they suck.
04-08-2009, 04:53 PM
from: tim1985Hey man, there's no need for talking to him like that, take it easy.
Neg rep two.
Dang, if this was survivor, I'd have been voted off by the alliance.
04-08-2009, 04:57 PM
04-08-2009, 05:04 PM
04-08-2009, 05:13 PM
I wasn't going to share the infraction, but it wouldn't let me reply back so I posted it because I had already typed that long thing up.
As far as the neg reps, I think they are ridiculous seeing that I was just trying to give young people the facts about dangerous drugs. If people think that my credibility or "rep" should be lowered because of it, so be it. It's a bulletin board. I think some people get obsessed with the whole rep thing - it's a non-factor for me.
Rep does not = knowledge, as I have come to find out.
04-08-2009, 05:19 PM
04-08-2009, 05:21 PM
04-08-2009, 05:24 PM
well I was in for clenbutrex and jus started to skim through ... bad start haha but you can recover!
04-08-2009, 05:28 PM
04-08-2009, 05:35 PM
04-08-2009, 05:40 PM
04-08-2009, 06:44 PM
04-08-2009, 06:47 PM
04-08-2009, 07:01 PM
04-08-2009, 07:27 PM
I dunno but VPX used to make a some sick products! I cant remember the one my buddy used in like 02 (ish) but he put on some nice mass... tasted like shxt though
04-08-2009, 08:06 PM
04-08-2009, 09:30 PM
Wow this thread has gone all kinds of directions. At least it is entertaining. Lol. I think that VPX comes out with some decent stuff. I am loving Meltdown right now.
04-09-2009, 12:43 AM
I think this stuff might be working, or it might be all of the scum I ate for dinner, because I had veins showing up in my shoulders and chest that I haven't seen before.
I will withhold judgment until I have been on it longer and can verify it is making a diff.
04-09-2009, 12:47 AM
04-09-2009, 09:08 AM
Keep up the review bro. Sucks this thread has gone to ****. Don't worry about any neg reps, like u said reps don't show how much you know it shows how popular you are.
04-09-2009, 10:48 AM
04-09-2009, 10:58 AM
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
04-09-2009, 12:02 PM
nah, i'll stay no need for me to leave, i don't have any problems with anyone on the board I'm just voicing my own opinion. There's still some good info on here you just have to wade through a lot of useless posts like this to get to them.
04-09-2009, 12:12 PM
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
04-09-2009, 12:17 PM
one thing i recognize, the op is giving an honest unbiased review. i am very interested in clenbutrx hardcore, and i am trusting the op to give a valid evaluation of this product. the other stuff is worth wading through to get to his results on this.
04-09-2009, 02:37 PM
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