Epistane log (start 3/12/09) w/ no SERM - AnabolicMinds.com

Epistane log (start 3/12/09) w/ no SERM

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    Epistane log (start 3/12/09) w/ no SERM


    First post/log, will keep it as simple as possible, but let me know if any of you want more details.

    Overview:
    I started Epistane 2 weeks ago (3/12/09), and my goals are to put on mass (shooting for about 15 lbs) and praying for some gyno reduction (left over from puberty).

    Training:

    Lifting 5 days a week w/ no cardio.

    Previous experience:
    Phera-plex cylce when I was 17 years old (now 21). I know, I know...
    Got good results (went from 140-158 during a three week cycle, and kept all lean mass despite cutting like crazy during PCT). I did increase my gyno during the cycle, but my gyno went back to where it was before the cylce during PCT.
    I have been lifting seriously for about 8 years total, and training specifically for bodybuilding purposes (rather than wrestling) for the last 2 1/2.

    Starting Stats:
    185 lbs
    ~8% body fat
    5' 10''

    Cycle:
    Epi 10/20/30/30
    Milk thistle - 5 caps a day @ 175 mg
    magnesium - 2 caps a day @ 250 mg (works great for BP)
    PCT:
    aPCT 6/5/4
    13c 200/200/200
    Nolvedex XT 0/1/2/2/2/1
    6-oxo 0/0/0/3/3
    Milk thistle - 5 caps a day @ 175 mg
    magnesium - 2 caps a day @ 250 mg (works great for BP)

    From the Logs reviews, here and elsewhere, I feel PCT should be sufficient for the low dose I plan on running. Let me know if you have a different opinion on the dosing. Praying for gyno reduction like I have seen on many others, that's the main purpose of my cycle. Since the Phera-plex, I have abstained from PHs/DSs and have done fine on my own (+ 30 lbs in four years), but I just want to be able to put a shirt on and not worry if my nips are popping out, lol.

    God bless, and thanks for any input in advance.

    Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." - Matthew 19:26

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    Day 14 progress

    + 7 lbs (probably about 5lbs lean)
    Strength is about the same
    Mood is great
    Increaed pump/aggression in the gym

    Sides
    I have had a couple of mild hot flashes, which is quite strange...
    I think my gyno has increased very slightly on my right nip. Not possitive, but I have felt some itch, although no increased sensitiviy. Hopefully I this is in my head, as I haven't heard of anyone noticing any gyno change (increase/decrease) at 10/20 mgs. Keeping fingers crossed for 30mg (starting today), as I am still hopeful.
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    Wish you all the best on your remaining two weeks, dmoney. 7 pounds is definitely very nice progress through 2 weeks at only 10 - 20mg / day.

    Stay on top of any gyno flare ups. I've had many people come to me (on another site) after developing epi-related gyno. I like epi, but it disappoints many who think that it'll reduce their gyno, or that it can't possibly cause gyno on its own. A bit of science and a lot of marketing can be dangerous.
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    gyno control


    I have been taking 200mg of motrin three times a day for the last 3 days, and it has completely stopped the itch I have been experiencing. This is even more notable, considering that I have also increased to 30mg these last 3 days.

    No joint soreness at 300mg like most experience. Everything else is also going good; great workouts, overall sense of well being, recovery, and libido. Only other side is some increased acne...notable but not bad.

    P.S. Still looking for a little help with the PCT if anyone has any input on the dosing.
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    30mgs is where it's at!


    I have been on 30mg for 6 days now, and I can really feel the epi working. I has happy with the way this product worked at 10mg, but I am feeling great at 30mg. I think I only put on about 2 pounds this week, but I definitely look leaner, so I think I might have put a little bit more muscle on than 2lbs.

    I would also like to note that 20mg pre-workout is awesome, rather than just the 10mg. I was originally dosing 10mg x3, as I was looking for gyno control. Now that I know my body is definitely not going for any gyno reduction on epi (btw the Motrin still appears to be working in that department), I have decided to do 20mg pre-workout and 10mg 6-8 hours later.

    Sides:
    Gyno, as stated, appears to be holding steady.
    Still having some hot-flashes now and then.
    My libido is through the freaking roof, to the point where it is just ridiculous.

    I still am looking for pct dosing help, if anyone feels they are qualified to contribute.


    P.S. I believe I might extend this cycle to 5 weeks to finish off the bottle, given that everything goes well.
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    never mind week five


    I decided to cut my cycle back to its original 10/20/30/30. No fault to the epi, just personal reasons.

    Week four:
    I really only gained about 2 lbs, although I am sure this was all lean mass.
    Workouts were phenomenal

    Sides:
    Acne seemed to kick in pretty good, but nothing all that bad.
    Gyno held constant. (I swear by the Ibuprofen)
    No hot flashes this week (yeah!)
    I never did feel any back/calf pumps like others

    Cycle totals:
    + 11lbs (I look slightly leaner than when I started)
    Only notable increase in strength was in my legs...interesting.

    PCT:
    I decided to run a more modest PCT consisting of...

    aPCT - 4/3/3/2
    6-oxo - 0/0/3/3


    I'll update again after PCT, unless I feel the need to switch something up.
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    Nice work man, where did you get 6 oxo at?? I have been looking everywhere and think the manufacturer is re-structuring the product or its been pulled?
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    I got mine at the Arnold expo 2 years ago...hadn't realized that it was a rare commodity until I searched around for it.
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    PCT results


    PCT went just like the cycle:

    Libido is high
    Streghth is up
    Size was maintained

    HOWEVER:

    the gynecomastia that I got on cycle stayed through PCT; also, I am experiencing some rebound gyno right now...this is how I ended up dosing my pct:

    a PCT 4/4/3
    6 oxo 0/3/3
    Nolva XT 0/0/0/3/3/3

    I felt some gyno rebound in week one (hence adding the 6 oxo). Weeks two and three were fine. Week four I started out with 2 caps of nolva xt, and had to jump up to 3 after I started to feel some rebound gyno. Weeks four/five I have been unable to drop the nolva xt to two caps (again, because of rebound gyno).

    I am at a loss at what to do. I have an appointment to see an endocrinologist on the fourth of next month, but I am afraid of my gyno getting much worse before then.

    I am thinking about some formex to tide me over until then, but me body has been on so many test-boosters/anti-e's that I wish I could give it a break.

    In conclusion, epi did everything it said it would do, except for the one thing I wanted it to do: reduce my gyno; instead, it increased.

    I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
  10. UKStrength
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    I'm sorry to hear about the gyno mate

    Epistane is a strong anti-oestrogen in itself therefore maybe using an AI during PCT (like 6-oxo) wasn't the best course of action and a SERM might have been a better choice.

    I had a similar issue with M-drol + armidex at the end of a Test cycle, I should have dropped the armidex, instead the M-drol drove the oestrogen really low and it rebounded during PCT.

    I'm sorry I didn't see this log sooner, otherwise I would have posted my thoughts then.

    Good luck at the endocrinologist.
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    I decided not to go completely cold turkey till I saw my endocrinologist on the forth of June. I would be scared to see how much growth in my gynecomastia would occur before then.

    I am going to be taking formex starting wednesday, so long as my order gets here on time (shipped today, priority mail).

    I am thinking 50/50/25/25 dosing. Hopefully my estrogen would get under control after this. Then I am not touching anything hormonally related again.

    Also, I KNOW that femara (letrozole) is covered under my insurance (praise God, that stuff is expensive!). What do you think the best way to convince my endocrinologist to write me a script? I believe using letrozole to attack gyno tissue is off label? It's generally used in women with breast cancer.

    If not, I am going to try to save up this summer for the surgery...which doesn't excite me one bit.
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    It gets stranger....


    I had moved to 2 caps of nolvadex XT to hold me over untill the formex got delivered. As before, my gyno was flaring up like no other during that time (pain/itchy nipples and appearance of hard tissue under my nipples). I ran out of nolvadex a day before my shipment got to me, and I felt absolutly fine that day! No signs of rebound at all. Today is the second day off of XT and I am not taking the formex, and I feel better than anytime during PCT.

    Any ideas how this happened? It seems counter intuitive to have rebound problems on the XT, and not when I was off.
  13. M16
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    Just seen this...nice log and hopefully the formex might help the gyno and would help to prevent a full crash during PCT{low dose of course}...Any pics ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by M16 View Post
    Just seen this...nice log and hopefully the formex might help the gyno and would help to prevent a full crash during PCT{low dose of course}...Any pics ?
    I am not on the formex. Like I was saying, as soon as I came off of the Nolvadex XT, I felt fine. I am not putting anything else in my body until I see my endocrinologist.
    I am really hoping that she will write me for some femara (letrozole), so I can get rid of this gyno I gained on/post Epi.
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    Hey man, here is to hoping everything works out. Glad to hear the gyno backed off, hopefully the endo will actually care.
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    hey bro hope all is well
    just some things that i would like to add :

    motrin ( ibuprofen ) if u look up its possible sides Gyno is one of them.

    I noticed you have Nolva XT as part of your pct... Is that from Gaspari ? If so thats not for pct they even state that in there website. Some people confuse Nolva ( the cancer fighting drug ) with Novedex from Gaspari ( just a test booster )

    I also felt gyno symptoms while on EPI ...itchy and tender nipps as soon as I felt that I got off the epi and went into pct.

    Hope your doing good bro

    Laterz
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    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    hey bro hope all is well
    just some things that i would like to add :

    motrin ( ibuprofen ) if u look up its possible sides Gyno is one of them.

    I noticed you have Nolva XT as part of your pct... Is that from Gaspari ? If so thats not for pct they even state that in there website. Some people confuse Nolva ( the cancer fighting drug ) with Novedex from Gaspari ( just a test booster )

    I also felt gyno symptoms while on EPI ...itchy and tender nipps as soon as I felt that I got off the epi and went into pct.

    Hope your doing good bro

    Laterz

    Hey, dude
    In the IBE website they recommend a serm for pct. Which one did u use?
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    nolva in tab form.
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