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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    nuts, avocados primarily, or olive oil, coconut oil, some of the others as well.

    Doing the math backwards from what you have

    4817 cals - 888p =
    3929 - 2524 =
    1405 cals from fat / 9 = 156g, but I just don't see 156g worth of fat there honestly, but what is there isn't necessarily the best fats at the same time.

    So i'd switch the reduced fat skippy for a full fat all natural pb (i tend to recommend Naturally More, its cheap and in most Walmarts) and maybe go back over your numbers as I think something is off.

    have you put them into Fitday.com ?

    lol where did you get that formula haha. But no i used www.thedailyplate.com to find out my stats. I uploaded everything into exel, and used exels program to add up my measurments. So if something is off/wrong it would probably be from the website :/


    Anyways, EasyEJL, is the amount of calories, protein, and carbs im taking at the right number for me to see gains when on the PHs, considering I DO NOT see any from this diet for the past several months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    ^^^ I agree with these guys. By failing to do legs and exercises such as squats and deadlifts you are failing to utilize your natural gaining potential. Working the full body produces more anabolic hormone than just doing the upper or lower body alone;, as well as recruiting more motor units, and the more motor units recruited per session will have a greater increase in neural activity, which will train your body to work more effectively as a whole (Heyward, 2006). Squats especially are one of the best exercises for gaining muscle mass!

    I'm also not sure WHY you would want to be unproportional and have a huge upper body.
    I never thought of it this way. If i were to start working out legs, would fitting them into my routine be okay if i just sub them in on tues/thurs.

    Example:

    M/W/F: upper body
    T/Th: lower body
    S/S: rest

    Also, we all know when yo first work out a body part in a long time that the following day they hurt. At my job i stand for 6hrs :/ I do not see this happening with my legs hurting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    I never thought of it this way. If i were to start working out legs, would fitting them into my routine be okay if i just sub them in on tues/thurs.

    Example:

    M/W/F: upper body
    T/Th: lower body
    S/S: rest

    Also, we all know when yo first work out a body part in a long time that the following day they hurt. At my job i stand for 6hrs :/ I do not see this happening with my legs hurting.
    You DON'T need three upper body days (especially if you're already out of proportion)! If anything you could flick that around and do 3 lower body sessions, since you sound like you need it; and you'd also get more growth in your upper body by training your legs that often.

    However, this is what I recommend you do:
    Monday - Lower Body/Abs
    Tuesday - Upper Body
    Thursday - Lower Body/Abs
    Friday - Upper Body

    You should be focussing on the mulitjoint, compound movements (i.e. powercleans, squat, deadlift, bent over row, pull-ups, bench press, military press, dips, calf raises (only isolation exercise I would recommend), etc.) to get the most out of your sessions (your bicep, triceps, lateral delts, and rear delts get used in those exercises, which is why there is no need for isolation exercises).

    Yes, when you train something that you don't normally train or have had a break from, after the first few sessions you WILL feel DOMS. However, you can EASE into the sessions (i.e. with lower body you don't have to go straight into lifting; do a few light warm-ups sets first, and then build up with your weights).

    STANDING for however long, regardless of sore legs, should not be an issue. You're NOT moving. It's not like you're spending 10-12+ hours standing/walking/running on TOP of your training! Despite that, your body adapts, and DOMS becomes less or disappears after a while.
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    Oh My o.o
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    You DON'T need three upper body days (especially if you're already out of proportion)! If anything you could flick that around and do 3 lower body sessions, since you sound like you need it; and you'd also get more growth in your upper body by training your legs that often.

    However, this is what I recommend you do:
    Monday - Lower Body/Abs
    Tuesday - Upper Body
    Thursday - Lower Body/Abs
    Friday - Upper Body

    You should be focussing on the mulitjoint, compound movements (i.e. powercleans, squat, deadlift, bent over row, pull-ups, bench press, military press, dips, calf raises (only isolation exercise I would recommend), etc.) to get the most out of your sessions (your bicep, triceps, lateral delts, and rear delts get used in those exercises, which is why there is no need for isolation exercises).

    Yes, when you train something that you don't normally train or have had a break from, after the first few sessions you WILL feel DOMS. However, you can EASE into the sessions (i.e. with lower body you don't have to go straight into lifting; do a few light warm-ups sets first, and then build up with your weights).

    STANDING for however long, regardless of sore legs, should not be an issue. You're NOT moving. It's not like you're spending 10-12+ hours standing/walking/running on TOP of your training! Despite that, your body adapts, and DOMS becomes less or disappears after a while.
    Listen to her. Please. And DOMS will actually be less of an issue if you're walking around because your legs will be more bloodflow and be less likely to stiffen up. At least in my experience, light walking and such has made DOMS much more tolerable for me than sitting all day
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    Guys he still hasn't told his age which from his pics let me guess he is max 19 or 20 he listen to some advice but at his age like many of us when we were there he has an idea of running ph and he will do so to me you are all wasting your time. Sorry but after seing minimum 5 post about requesting his age and they all got ignore that's what I think.
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    yeah avoiding the age is a red flag....

    But man..Running everything you have....You may be looking to a very bleak future, health wise, test production wise, happiness wise. I wouldnt touch another prohormone or steroids again man. And then you better be praying. Imagine by the time your 25 you cant get a woody, period. And no lil pill will help you. Your depressed 24/7, moody. No energy.

    All for the sake of muscle? If you think you turn the ladies on now, you will be turning them off in the future. Or you may just be on TRT for life.

    Even if you are 22 maybe, or over 21, not making any gains like you said from some of those cycles had to be because you didnt do something right. I am a "hardgainer" as well....
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    man, i think it's great your trying to get some help on this situation. I agree with everyone else, that you need to start training your legs and stop basing all your gains on the next hormone your going to run. If you got your diet in check completely and started training those legs I would almost guarantee that you would probably put on 10-15 pounds without any hormones. Perhaps sticking to the basics would be better served as you body sounds like it might need some time to get back to normal. In the end it's your decision, but don't stay away from leg training cause it's hard work.
  9. Never enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    lol where did you get that formula haha. But no i used www.thedailyplate.com to find out my stats. I uploaded everything into exel, and used exels program to add up my measurments. So if something is off/wrong it would probably be from the website :/


    Anyways, EasyEJL, is the amount of calories, protein, and carbs im taking at the right number for me to see gains when on the PHs, considering I DO NOT see any from this diet for the past several months.
    Ah well, you might see some, but you should bump it if that is normal. And do it like I said with adding healthy fats.
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    thank you EasyEJL, but to everyone else, can you stop bothering me about the PHs. Im not really asking about that anymore lol

    to Easy, thanx for helping me with my diet.

    to Guejsn, thanx for the suggestion for a workout. Im going to give that a try.

    But does anyone have suggestions on how I could make my upperbody workout shorter? 3-4 hours in my opinion is TOO LONG in the gym.
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    damn I spend 45 minutes or so.

    Use pyramids and drop sets along with super setting. I only usually do DB incline, DB flat press and flyes for my chest using these tecniques I listed earlier.
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    anyone else have an idea?
  13. Never enough
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    try a standard 4 day split for a while, see how it goes. go to http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMen...#anchor1682800

    and check it out
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    try a standard 4 day split for a while, see how it goes. go to http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMen...#anchor1682800

    and check it out
    lol thanx, but i was recently doing something similar to that, and I did not really like the gains in size or strength :/

    Ill prob just stick to the whole upper body for one day and whole lower body for another. but to make my workouts shorter for upper, how many ex. do you do per body part?
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    lol thanx, but i was recently doing something similar to that, and I did not really like the gains in size or strength :/

    Ill prob just stick to the whole upper body for one day and whole lower body for another. but to make my workouts shorter for upper, how many ex. do you do per body part?
    why dont you do chest, tricep

    back bicep

    legs shoulders


    that always works for me. I concorporated different techniques as I said above.
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    Your protein intake is high enough with 1 gr/pound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    thank you EasyEJL, but to everyone else, can you stop bothering me about the PHs. Im not really asking about that anymore lol

    to Easy, thanx for helping me with my diet.

    to Guejsn, thanx for the suggestion for a workout. Im going to give that a try.

    But does anyone have suggestions on how I could make my upperbody workout shorter? 3-4 hours in my opinion is TOO LONG in the gym.
    No worries. As long as you LISTEN.

    There's NO reason for ANY session to take longer than 45 minutes. 3-4 hours is excessive and no wonder you don't get gains.

    You don't have to do your COMPLETE upper body each time. You could do:

    Option A
    Upper Body 1 - Chest/Back
    Upper Body 2 - Shoulders/Arms

    Option B
    Upper Body 1 - Chest/Triceps/Anterior Delts/Lateral Delts
    Upper Body 2 - Back/Biceps/Rear Delts/Traps

    Option C
    Upper Body 1 - Full
    Upper Body 2 - Full

    If you're doing everything, just stick to the compound exercises, because you're going to be working your anterior deltsa nd triceps with compound chest exercises (i.e. bench press) and biceps and rear delts with compound back exercises (i.e. bent over rows).

    I actually seriously suggest that you get a personal trainer who knows what they're doing!
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    Look into DC training...
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    He hasn't ever trained legs, he couldn't handle correct DC training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    He hasn't ever trained legs, he couldn't handle correct DC training.
    i have trained legs b4, but that was a coupld years ago back in highschool

    and ty eggplant, im going to go check out the DC training routine.

    and easyEJL thats a good site, i think ill use that to base my new workout.
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    You won't gain anything off DC. If you don't train legs and don't care enough about your endocrine system to even research how to obtain a SERM, then I am confident you won't have the motivation to even READ everything about DC training, much less to bring the intensity to each workout that it requires to gain, and I'm pretty sure you would laugh if someone told you what kind of volume DC incorporates, especially if you're spending 3-4 hours in the gym. Get on a NORMAL split.

    Mon - chest, tri's
    Tues - back, bi's
    Thurs - Shoulders, abs
    Fri - Legs

    I won't touch on the steroid issue, but I would suggest googling "research chemical nolvadex".
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianballer View Post
    You won't gain anything off DC. If you don't train legs and don't care enough about your endocrine system to even research how to obtain a SERM, then I am confident you won't have the motivation to even READ everything about DC training, much less to bring the intensity to each workout that it requires to gain, and I'm pretty sure you would laugh if someone told you what kind of volume DC incorporates, especially if you're spending 3-4 hours in the gym. Get on a NORMAL split.

    Mon - chest, tri's
    Tues - back, bi's
    Thurs - Shoulders, abs
    Fri - Legs

    I won't touch on the steroid issue, but I would suggest googling "research chemical nolvadex".
    hahah yea ok boss. i would have to disagree. Im sure if i was training on the 3rd and 4th hour at the gym like i just walked in (which i do pretty much) that i could bring the "intensity" that you say is required for the Doggcapp.

    Also read b4 posting. I do not do the routine you listed, because as i stated before, it DOES NOT work for me. :/ Also, idk if it is just me, but i cant go a week in the gym working out my chest only once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    hahah yea ok boss. i would have to disagree. Im sure if i was training on the 3rd and 4th hour at the gym like i just walked in (which i do pretty much) that i could bring the "intensity" that you say is required for the Doggcapp.

    Also read b4 posting. I do not do the routine you listed, because as i stated before, it DOES NOT work for me. :/ Also, idk if it is just me, but i cant go a week in the gym working out my chest only once.
    3-4hours?!

    You'd get more out of a 30-45min workout dude
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    lol....you guys can keep telling me how im over training, not getting a good workout, wasting my time, dont know what I am doing, etc. idc about that. What I am asking is how can you help me out? What can you suggest me to do to make my upper body work out shorter?


    thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by doyoudo911 View Post
    lol....you guys can keep telling me how im over training, not getting a good workout, wasting my time, dont know what I am doing, etc. idc about that. What I am asking is how can you help me out? What can you suggest me to do to make my upper body work out shorter?


    thank you
    i did and you completely ignored it...
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    People have made suggestions to you on how to shorten your workouts. Indianballer just gave u a split a few posts back. If you knew anything about lifting and working out you would know that is wayyyyyy to long to be in the gym. Maybe you should hold off on the designers and get ur lifting down first.
  27. Never enough
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    yeah, at the very least it will give you a good idea of a huge variety of exercises you can try, because adaptation happens easily if you keep doing the same thing.

    if you primarily train with barbell then switch to dbs for a while, or vice versa
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    i did and you completely ignored it...
    no i did not ignore it...im just not a fan of them :/ dont get me wrong they BURN like hell, but idk im just not a fan of them lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh11 View Post
    People have made suggestions to you on how to shorten your workouts. Indianballer just gave u a split a few posts back. If you knew anything about lifting and working out you would know that is wayyyyyy to long to be in the gym. Maybe you should hold off on the designers and get ur lifting down first.

    and as i stated before a couple times now, i use to use that routine and didnt really gain anything



    i also see the best results from working out my upper body in one day. but now i just remembered what someone previously said (idr who) but they mentioned soemthing that working out my back would train my bis and chest work out tri, so ill prob blend them in for a shorter workout.

    As for my lower body days that wont be hard, since we all know lower doesnt take as long as upper



    but thank you to everyone for your advice and help
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    man. honestly. go for whatever. its your body, and your here for advice about running the compound, not pussing out; you have obviously made up your mind, and really, i dont think anyone is going to change your mind- it wouldnt change mine. i ran dymethazine for 3 weeks, even threw away a weeks worth, and i got a 1/2 inch on my arms..reppin out 100s on db press 8 reps, up from 90s, and none of that strength or my weight has gone down since. plus im only taking restore pct..and as a matter of fact my strength is still going up (from 225x3 to 225x4 in a week). i was 196 and now im 212-i was 200 flat but i got sick a week b4 i ran the compound, but since i have kept all my gains i would say its a solid prohormone. what if you ran the one for two weeks (since the avg gains are like 12 pounds in 2 weeks!!) while running dymethazine the whole 4 weeks.
    Have you checked out fiber damage, fiber saturation training. i did this program over christmas, and i ended up getting a 1/4 inch on my arms after just this workout.
    this is the exact workout i did that got me there.
    Back and bis
    Part 1 (Fiber Damage)
    Pullups-1x5+ 1 assist, 1x4+2 assisted reps. TEMPO-(5,1,X)
    Close Grip Cable Row-130x6 150x5+2 assisted reps (1,3,1)
    Underhand Grip Cable Row-130x6 (3,1,X)
    Fiber Saturation
    T Bar Rows- 45x27+3 assisted reps
    Barbell Rows- 105x14 r.p. 3

    Bis
    Fiber Damage
    Barbel Curl-95x3, 95x3 + 3 assist (3/0/X)
    DB Curl-35x3 30x3 (6/1/1)
    Fiber Saturation
    DB Curl- 20x10
    Reverse Curl40x20 superset hammer curls 15x20
    Close Grip EZ Bar-40x9 dropset 30x6

    Plus definitely consider doing legs. Im probably 198 cut, but if i didnt train legs i would be at about your weight cut. And it will help you stimulate a TON more growth.
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    Honestly, all these gentlemen are right. You said you haven't made gains on hormones in the last little while on a program that doesn't involve training legs. Why don't you take the advice that these guys are giving and try training legs (no one wants to look like a flamingo). Leg training takes alot of hard work and the majority of the time your left sore for a day or two. Maybe you should look at that muscle soreness as a sign of muscle growth. The fact is that you need big legs to support a big upper buddy otherwise injuries usually begin to occur. I think your physique shows a ton of potential but your going to be stuck in a rut for growth until you start training those legs and start avoiding the hormones for a while. If your looking into DC training, be prepared for leg training as it is a major component of their training program. Good luck with whatever you choose but please use the advice that is being offered as we're all here to help each other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Alum 03 View Post
    Your post history indicates you were under 21 as of December '08. The fact that you've run so much at such a young age is a reason for concern.

    Don't run either. Seriously. Take a step back dude.
    X2 with this....... and do some legs. legs make up something like 40% of your mass, so if you weigh 180 now lean, if you had of been consistent with legs, you'd prob be way over 200 by now. squat squat squat!!
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    feel free to check my log out in the I-Force section
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