30 days on Vyotech 17 HD

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    30 days on Vyotech 17 HD


    im new to forums been snooping around awhile haha.. After alot of thinking i bought a bottle of vyotech 17 HD.. I eat a decent diet about 2500 to 3000 cals and 180-190 grams protien make sure to get decent carbs with each meal. my workout is a mix i would say between powerlifting and bodybuilding.

    weight-170
    height- 5'10

    bench press max-250
    deadlift-405
    squat- 365 decent depth

    Took my first pill today and took 2 scoops of fasttwitch pre-workout

    Bench Press (using ed coans routine)
    warmed up 135,170,205 then working set.
    2 x 3 on 230

    Dumbell bench
    55 x 12
    70 x 10
    80 x 8

    Decline Chest press
    two 45s x 10
    2 45s and a 25 x 10
    2 45s and a 35 x 8
    3 45s x 8

    Incline chest press
    45 and 25 x 12
    45 and 35 x 10
    two 45s x 4

    Did some Biceps as well just for a pump and finished up with dumbell flyes with 40s and pec dec to burn out and reverse flyes to keep my shoulders pain free.

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    good luck on this log .. looking fwd to how the Vyotech 17 HD works .. ive read mixed reviews of this stuff .. so following up on a log should give an good idea as to what to expect
    S.n.S team member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQNemesis View Post
    good luck on this log .. looking fwd to how the Vyotech 17 HD works .. ive read mixed reviews of this stuff .. so following up on a log should give an good idea as to what to expect
    thanks man ill keep the log going todays a day off i only take one pill on workout days because the box says nothing of taking it on off days.. Hopefully i can get up 270 on bench maybe a 425 deadlift. Still got a while on my squat routine. My diets decent however i still take the oppurtunities to down wings or pizza etc.. but i always get enough protien and food a day. Try to make most of them healthy.
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    worked back today on sunday after taking saturday off.

    Deadlift
    1. 135 x 5
    2. 185 x 5
    3. 225 x 3
    4. 285 x 3
    5. 365 x 1

    what i do for deadlift is whatever my max was for the start of my last cycle i pull that and increase 10 pounds a week to see if i can break the most recent max i set.
    went from 365 to 405 in my first deadlift workout. Now gonna go 365,375,385, then depending how i feel go for my max? its worked b4 anyone else got a better workout please let me know

    Tbar rows
    1. 115 x 10
    2. 135 x 6
    3. 145 x 6 ( new best)

    Seated V-bar rows
    1. 120 x 10
    2. 140 x 8
    3. 150 x 8
    4. 160 x 6 (new best)

    Close Grip Reverse Pulldown
    1. 120 x 8
    2. 140 x 8
    3. 160 x 5 (new best) last rep was terrible but hey i got it lol

    Shrugs on shurg maching at golds not sure what its called.
    1. 360 x 10
    2. 450 x 8
    3. 540 x 6

    Back extentions on machine
    1. 165 x 10
    2. 185 x 10
    3. 195 x 10
    same feel as good mornings

    ab machine
    80 x 10
    90 x 10
    100 x 10

    i had been goin for a one rep personal best on deadlifts for months and now im kinda plateauing seeing if maybe 90% of max and working up will help me break threw but open to new routines... every other lift seemed to go up today from my last back workout less then a week ago.

    tommorows another off day then working arms on tuesday
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    nice keep it up man.. are u taking the 17hd along with fasttwitch as a preworkout ?

    keep it up ..nice workout routine
    S.n.S team member
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    interested in how this goes the ads always look great wondering if it lives up to them

    your deadlift workout is similart to my Bench Scheme when on I find it works pretty well
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQNemesis View Post
    nice keep it up man.. are u taking the 17hd along with fasttwitch as a preworkout ?

    keep it up ..nice workout routine
    yea im using 17hd just the one pill only on workout days. im using fasttwitch currently as well my tub is about to run out. i think im goin to black powder till my 17 hd is out.. Fast twitch is working really well but im building tolerence and im up to about 3 scoops. i have been on it since november 1st..

    and thanks man i kind of came up with the workout myself. I took my deadlift routine from a powerlifting routine. and then the rest of the back workout i noticed arnold ALWAYS having tbar rows and seated rows. Got the idea of the Reverse close grip pulldown from dorian yates workout routine.. just made something on my own haha.. some weeks when i dont deadlift maybe a sore back or something ill do decline bench lat rows, low cable pulls and maybe wide grip latpulldown to burn out..


    and idk this might be completely off the wall.. but from what i feel using the 17 HD seems like all the testosterone is used just during my workout. I found it really hard to preform with a chick right after workout. However after an 1hr or 2 post workout i need about 5 chicks haha.

    anyways tommorow is arm day gonna do

    Reverse machine bench 3 sets about 5,5,3
    weighted dips 10,8,6
    curly bar? pulldowns 3 x 10
    vbar pull downs 3 x 10

    Alternating standing dumbell curls 2 sets 8-10
    Hammer Curls 2 sets of 10
    Cable single arm curls 3 x 10
    Smith Machine Drag Curl 3 x 10
    2 sets preacher start out with 25 and 5 then next set a 25
    then 2 10's on each side and do reverse grip preacher curls and hit some abs im out.. ill post exact numbers tommorow and let you know about the progress.
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    had nothing but a protien bar in the morning had class at 1:30 woke up 10ish had to stop at gnc to get some protien powder. took a pill with two scoops of fast twitch was ready to hit the gym felt great

    started out with
    Weighted Dips
    1.80 x 10
    2.90 x 8
    3.100 x 6

    went ten pounds heavier each set and did the same amount of reps as last week.

    Reverse Grip Bench
    1. 225 x 5
    2. 240 x 4
    3. 255 x 4

    did 250 for 3 last week but i did reverse grip bench first last week! so thats quite in improvement.

    Did the Curly bar pulldown (anyone know the actuall name of the bar?)
    1. 80 x 10
    2. 80 x 9
    3. 90 x 4

    did them on the cybrex machine? which feels real heavy compared to the regular cable pulldowns that are with the free weights? IN the regular pulldown machines i can hit 95 3 sets of 10 but thats not that hard..

    Then did Tri Rope Pulldowns (not on cybrex machine)
    1. 70 x 15
    2. 80 x 12

    V-bar Pulldown on cybrex
    1. 90 x 10
    2. 90 x 10


    Barbell Curls
    1. 95 x 10
    2. 105 x 8
    3 115 x 4

    Alternating Dumbell Curls
    1. 40 x 10
    2. 40 x 9

    Smith Machine drag curls
    1. 35's x 10
    2. 30 x 10
    3. 25 x 12

    Concentration Curls
    1. 40 x 8
    2. 35 x 10

    reverse preacher curls
    1. 15lbs on each side plus bar x 10
    2. 15lbs on each side plus bar x 10

    overall after arms felt trenmendous strength increase in reverse bench and Weighted Dips. switched to cybrex machines so i could go heavier since the 95 pound limit on the Pulldown machines in the fee weight area is getting too light. I almost matched my lifts in the cybrex and it seems heavier. felt tremondus pumps in the tri's

    Biceps Curls went up espcially since i did them after triceps. Usually i do alternating one tri set one bi. Did both sets on alternating curls on 40s instead of 35 then 40. Got more cleaner reps with the 40s on concentration curls. Drag Curls also felt easier.

    was drained after the workout. felt a sweet pump also been staying sore a little longer? prehaps working hard and adding alot of weight pretty fast. anyways leg day tommorow. Im new to workin legs out hard so well see how that goes. and then a day off and benching on Friday cant wait

    anyone wanna give me a suggestion for bench friday i did
    230 for 2 sets of 3 last friday the 6 rep was kinda hard not too bad.

    should i go 240 2 sets of 3 or just go up 5 pounds?
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    Did legs today

    Squat
    warmed up with the bar for 20
    1. 135 x 5
    2. 185 x 5
    3. 225 x 5
    4. 285 x 1
    5. 315 x 5
    6. 315 x 5

    now these arent ass to calves that kills my back i go down as low as our football coaches made us and asked a couple guys at the gym they said it was low enough.. Ive been doin better reps and feeling pretty good..

    Smith Maching front squat
    1. 225 x 5
    2. 245 x 5
    3. 285 x 1 (coulda done more)

    Leg Press Machine
    1. 300 x 12
    2. 360 x 12
    3. 420 x 8

    Donkey Calf Raise
    1. 180 x 15 toes pointed out
    2. 180 x 15 toes pointed in
    3. 180 x 15 toes straight

    Did the Incline treadmill sprint
    for 3 mins incline was on 7 and Speed on 7 or 8 i forget haha..
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    guys tell me 17hd gives them crazy energy in the gym. Do you notice that?
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    well i take it along with fast twitch so i cant really tell u exactly how much energy it gives me. but i do feel alot more ready/confident when im going for my heaviest set
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    well i take it along with fast twitch so i cant really tell u exactly how much energy it gives me. but i do feel alot more ready/confident when im going for my heaviest set
    is fast twitch only taken on workout days as well too ?

    ive never tried fast twitch, who makes it ?

    keep up the workouts, looks real nice.
    S.n.S team member
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    ya fast twitch is made by cytosport and it has 200mg of caffiene per scoop so i dont take it on off days and plus my shake has creatine so i dont see the purpose of taking it on off days...

    Ive taken NO xplode, Super Pump, Track NO extreme, Armageddon, anabolic stack nothing compares preworkout to fasttwitch

    and just to update everyone on my log i STARTED to workout chest today for heavy bench. I was feeling slight pain in my elbows. I stretched out started lifting

    warmed up with the bar for 20
    135 x 5
    165 x 5
    195 x 2
    215 x 1
    240 x 1 was suppose to get 2 sets of 3 maybe 2?

    Just felt like my lockouts were taking forever i didnt have that burst on lockouts. and my elbows were hurting around where the triceps connect to it. Im hoping taking sat-sun off monday doing a light bench and tricep workout
    tues-off
    wed- Shoulders/rotator cuffs
    thurs-off
    friday- heavy bench.

    im hoping that with alot of eating and shakes and rest/ice does the trick.
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    ok took sat and sunday off fridays workout was cut shirt because of shoulder elbow/tricep pain.. Had to start a new routine because the pain of all the tricep/bicep work was killing me and i was peaking on bench about to set a new personal record. Found an intresting routine on tnation.

    it goes like this 5 sets of 1 on ur 3 rep max in parenthesis is what weight i used.
    T-bar Rows (160)
    Shoulder press (200)
    Squat (315)
    Front Raise (70)

    then you go back threw it 3 sets of 6 with 20% less weight. for the pump part of the wowrkout the above part was the power part.
    Tbar rows (115)
    shoulder press (160)
    squat (225)
    front raise (50)

    workout kicked my ass. The goal is to work up to 8 sets of 1 and then add weight drop back to 5 sets of 1 and keep the cycle going gonna run this for awhile see how it works. Wednesday is bench and deadlifting so that will tell alot if this is easier on the joints..I feel pain free after the workout today. Im gonna post more on this workout in the powerlifting fourms...


    O and i started nano vapor today felt really mentally focused not much energy/caffiene buzz..
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    i was thinking bout buying some of this a long time ago but then i read that it was a waste of money

    interested in seeing what kinda results u get

    gl with ur log
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    yea alot of reviews said it was amazing others said it was a complete waste. I started taking it right when my bench press was peaking and i was looking to set a new max so ill try to give u the best review i can and let u know if it works man!
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    Yesterday just did a 30 min run starting at 4.5 mph and worked up .5 mph every 5 mins and ran in a hoodie. sweated a **** ton..

    Today's workout was simple
    Bench press 5 x 1 (235)
    Weighted dips 5 x 3 (115)
    just did 3 reps cuz one dip is stupid and its hard as hell to keep undoing the belt and doing it again.
    Sumo Deadlift 5 x 1 (365) No straps just a belt first time doing sumo's im bumping up to 375 next week.

    3 x 6 Pump part of routine
    Sumo Deadlift (295)
    Incline Chest Press (180) last set (190)
    Ez bar Pulldowns (95lbs heavy as it goes)

    couple change to the routine

    1. I put in weight dips instead of Weight pullups as pullups work back and this routine has enough back in it already and Weighted pull ups are HELL on my shoulders. I also switched it to 5 sets of 3 instead of 5 x 1 because 1 rep dips seemed kinda dumb.

    2. Did incline press on 3 x 6 instead of regular bench because i never get to hit incline.

    3. Did Tricep Pulldowns with the ez bar instead of 3 x6 on dips because my elbows hurt.

    Overall felt like the 17hd is helpiung in a pure strength standpoint. The NanoVapor is a hell of a supplement too and i hate muscletech. Its almost up there with fast twitch for me.

    Im gonna keep doing the Weighted Dips at 5 x 3 and do them for the 3 x 6 part of my workout to once my tricep soreness is gone. The ez bar pulldowns were just today

    Im also keeping the incline press on the 3 x 6 insted of flat bench for varitation.


    Next workout is friday idk What im doing maybe just supersetting light bicep and triceps? Ive worked Chest, back and legs hard this week so im thinking just light bicep and triceps. Im also trying to keep cardio up and intense two times a week because i dont wanna keep as much muscle tone as i can while on this routine. Also with school sometimes i just gotta grab subway/Wendys or something to eat something instead of starving myself.
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    Did Tri's and Bi's today More for a pump the weight dips provide good strength for the Tris and i have been hittin the tris hard to peak at the end of my bench routine...

    Barbell Curls
    1. 95 x 10
    2. 85 x 12
    3. 75 x 15

    Ez Bar Pulldown
    1. 95 (whole stack wont go heavier) x 10
    2. 87.5 x 12
    3. 78 x 15

    Alternating Dumbell Curls
    1. 45 x 10
    2. 40 x 12
    3. 35 x 15

    Straight Bar Straight arm Pull down
    1. 80 x 10
    2. 72.5 x 12
    3. 65 x 15

    180 degree Preacher Curls
    1. 45 x 15
    2. 65 x 5

    Smith Machine Drag Curl
    1. 95 x burn out 13 reps

    Tricep Overhead Rope pulls
    Burned out doing these 10 reps 12 reps 15 reps from 40-60 pounds

    Pumps were sick i used 17hd and NanoVapor pre workout. couple notes

    1. barbell Curls didnt really go heavy i wanted a good pump and something easy on the joints
    2. 180 degree preacher curls are really aqkward but give an amazing pump especially since ur standing all the pressure is on the Bi's
    3. Smith Machine Drag curls did clean reps Burned out had nothing more to do for biceps
    4. took me a couple tries at the Tricep rope overhead pulls but got a good pump going once i got the hang of it.

    Sat and Sunday is off. Monday im doing Shoulder Press Tbar Rows and Squat if i can hit all 7 sets of 2. Im moving up the weigh 10 pounds and going for 5 sets of 2 next week. Whatever workout i fail getting 7 x 2 im keeping the weight same next week.
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    ok so did my 2nd workout of Hepburn power and pump

    Tbar Rows
    7 x 2-3 reps on 160
    was hitting this for 2 reps last week 5 sets.. did 7 sets of 3 with amazing form id say

    Front Squats
    5 x 2 on 285
    I alternate with front squat and back squat each week went real low felt good.

    Shoulder Press ( had to do this 3rd not second guy wouldnt get off the machine)
    5 sets x 3 190
    2 sets x 3 200

    was hitting one more rep on each set and did 2 more sets with 10 more pounds then last weeek.

    Dumbell Overhead Swings
    7 x 2 (60)

    first time doing these felt good form was decent


    For the pump part i was pouring sweat by now exhausted

    T bar rows
    3 x 6 (125)

    Front Squat
    3 x 6 (225) this always feels like hell

    Shoulder press
    1. 140 x 6
    2. 180 x 6
    3. 180 x 5
    just started working out shoudlers directly strength is skyrocketing!! thanks for the advice guys

    instead of the dumbell swings again i did rotator cuff work and reverse flys for 2 reasons
    1. first time doing dumbell swings
    2. still trying to rehab the shoulder a bit from football injuries

    doing bench weighted Dips and deadlift on wednesday hopefully i can hit 235 for 7 sets of 1 and then moving to 240 for next week anyways tahts all for today hope this helps some of u guys out
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    What was the name of that workot on t-nation? I'd like to take a look at that and see what it's all about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calidood View Post
    What was the name of that workot on t-nation? I'd like to take a look at that and see what it's all about.
    Hepburn solution for pump and power brother! give it a look Theres a workout program A and workout program B u can do it 2 days or 4 days a week. Just listen to ur body and you wont overtrain. I sometimes replace pump part of workout with exercises that give u a better pump. For example today i didnt do the 3 x 6 for deadlift i did heavy close reverse grip pulldowns. I also replace weighted pull ups with weighted dips.. Just dont repalace weighted pullups with like tricep kickbacks haha but im sure u know that.. anyways log for today below

    Bench Press
    7 x 1 (235)
    Deadlift
    5 x 1 (375)
    Reverse Grip Smith Bench (som1 stole all the weighted dip belts from the gym)
    5 x 1 (275)

    Pump part

    Incline Press
    3 x 6 (200)

    Close grip pulldowns reverse grip
    3 x 6 (90,90,100)

    Reverse Grip bench Press (Smith)
    1 set of 14 with 225

    summary- workout got thrown off today my headphones plug was Fed up i always bench in my garage then do the other lifts at the gym ( have to take 10 min break after bench to drive to the gym). So i stop in at rite aid on my way to the gym and got another pair of headphones get to the gym those dont fit in my ear too big! Then the weighted dip belt was stolen so i had to find a replacement workout. The Deadlift Squat rack had the hardcore curlers taking it up. My supps were wearing off so i jsut added 10 pounds and did 5 sets instead of 7. I also replaced the Pump deadlifts with pulldowns cuz i get more of a pump and its easier on the back.

    Did my best ever lifts on reverse bench. Sumo deadlift and even Pulldowns =)..

    next weeks a big test on bench 240 is my biggest fear i swear haha. Ive done 2 reps on 240 before then hurt my shoulder. since then i always get stuck on 240 for 1 and even if i try rest pause or try 2 sets of 2 on 240 im stuck. Theres been no workout that ive hit 240 for more then 2 reps in anyway.. so if i can hit 240 5 sets of 1 im gonna be have shaatered a plateau.. anyways tahts all for today.. Friday i do a super set arm routine, carido tommorow and sat sun off..

    any questions just post em love to tell u guys more since u all help a ton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    guys tell me 17hd gives them crazy energy in the gym. Do you notice that?
    i took 17hd over a year ago and i always got crazy energy when working out and sweety
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    any questions just post em love to tell u guys more since u all help a ton.
    hows the 17hd treating ya? and just keep it up what your doing, youll reach that mark for bench. your routine looks good
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    Quote Originally Posted by testiesac View Post
    hows the 17hd treating ya? and just keep it up what your doing, youll reach that mark for bench. your routine looks good
    its going good man ive set personal records in weighted dips, reverse bench. pulldowns etc all shot up. i havent maxed on deadlift or bench recently but the highest i have deadlifted was 395 x 2 with straps im now hitting 375 5 sets of 1 with no straps jsut a belt. Bench ive hit 2 reps of 240 in one workout and it hopefully next week i can pass that. its treating me amazing right now i only got 5 pills left though i think im gonna run it for another month. then cycle off.

    the problem is im hopefully =) going to the arnold in march and u get a load of free sups and i know im gonna want to use those. o well maybe i wont have to buy preworkouts to comibne with the 17hd.

    but 17hd and fast twitch/nanovapor has been a UGLY combo for me man its working.
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    you only took one each day, everyday right?
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    nope one on workout days only is what it says
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    ok so i did arms today and have been working in shoulders as well since im just starting to train them directly. For arms i usually just do whatever i feel like for the day to get a good pump going i think i do enough tricep work for strength, so i kinda just hit whatever i want fridays.

    Shoulder Press
    1. 180 x 6
    2. 180 x 5
    3. 160 x 8 ( shoulder started to hurt didnt wanna push it)

    Tricep Pulldowns Reverse Grip
    1. 65 x 20
    2. 75 x 20
    3. 85 x 15

    Barbell Curls inside Grip
    1. 95 x 10
    2. 85 x 15
    3. 75 x 20

    Dumbell Front Swings
    1. 55 x 6
    2. 65 x 6
    3. 70 x 6 (new best)

    V Bar Pulldown
    1. 65 x 25
    2. 75 x 25
    3. 85 x 15

    Dumbell alternating curls
    1. 40 x 10
    2. 35 x 12

    Straight Bar Reverse pulldowns
    1. 85 x 15
    2. 90 x 12
    3. 95 x 8

    Dips 75 on bodyweight 1 set of 50 one set 25 and preacher curl just to burn out idk what weight i used though.

    This review probably didnt help much lol, I just use fridays to get a really good pump in my arms using lifts that arent taxing on my joints and ligaments. Feels like the longer ive been working out my arms dont need to much work to get a sweet pump going ?? anyone else ever felt this way? Anyways thats all for today.

    Monday im doing Front Dumbell Swings Tbar Rows Shoulder Press and Squats all 5 sets of 1-2 reps again and rasing the weights 10 pounds each exercise.. so ill post then and let u guys know how it goes !

    any questions just ask!
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    so are you going to get more?
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    yea man ive been on it for one month, all my numbers are looking good no pain no overtrainning. Ive been going real heavy as well. Im ordering 17HD its $25 a bottle of Jacked 23.99 and a $12.00 cissus bulk 100g all for 67.00 shipped thats 16 cheaper then the Vyotech was at GNC!
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    may give it a run....
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    alright todays workout was Shoulder Press, T-Bar Rows, Front Dumbell Swings, Leg Press (instead of squats)

    Tbar Rows
    5 x 2 (180) - moved up 10 pounds from last week reps were pretty decent, going to use the same weight next 2 weeks so i improve form a bit more.

    Shoulder Press
    5 x 1 (230) it was hard but i got all 5 Reps deffinetely keeping the weight same for next week.

    Dumbell Swings
    5 x 2 (80) This was hard as well but did them with good form

    Leg Press
    5 x 2 on 480 and these were no P**** reps either knees to chest type, back was aching didnt wanna do squats.

    Pump part of workout

    V-Bar Pulls (easy good pumps)
    1. 140 x 10
    2. 150 x 10
    3. 160 x 8

    Shoulder Press
    3 x 8 (160) easy good pump

    Leg Press
    3 x 15 on 360,380,400

    Reverse Flys
    1. 55 x 15
    2. 55 x 15
    3. 70 x 12

    I swithched up the pump part of my workout so i can get a REAL good pump by using pulldowns etc. instead of big movements like t bar rows etc that dont give as good of a pump. I also didnt do Dumbell Swings for burnout and did rear delts because i pushed really heavvy for shoulders today and didnt want to over work because im starting to do the 3 day split. Friday instead of direct Arms im going to do Floor Bench, Leg Press and Shoulder Press. and see if i can eventually get to the 4 day split.

    anyways thats all for today Pistonpump i PMed you back and u might be intrested in the 17hd platinum which is suppose to be a better version but for older ppl not 19... not saying ur old lol but just check it out and tell me what u think thanks brother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post


    anyways thats all for today Pistonpump i PMed you back and u might be intrested in the 17hd platinum which is suppose to be a better version but for older ppl not 19... not saying ur old lol but just check it out and tell me what u think thanks brother.
    first off im not gonna buy it at GNC....that seems to be the only place..?

    seems like they just added in 3deoxy, which they say is an AI but have no further info/data on it... no thanks, ill stick with the OG since it can be had for a good price. Ill let you know if i pick some up.
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    yea bro thats what i was wondering why only gnc has it? you cant even order it off vyotechs own website? there no reviews or nothing. But the orginal one is working wonders for me. Im hoping to get 5 sets of 240 on bench then hit 7 sets of 1 on 240 take a week "light" training because of spring break and all and then come back and see if i can hit my old max 250 for 5 sets of 1 i figure with two bottles of 17hd that would be quite in achievement...
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    Doesn't vyotech make superchargers for rice rockets?

    Here anyway.
    NSCA - CSCS
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    lol

    brown, they probably have an exclusive deal with gnc to sell it, like a contract for a year or whatever.
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    ill stick to being able to buy like 4 of the regular version bottles shipped to my house for a cheaper price then i can one bottle of the newer verison at gnc lol

    the only time i use gnc is to try a new product and if i like it, i order it online and return the gnc one
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    ill stick to being able to buy like 4 of the regular version bottles shipped to my house for a cheaper price then i can one bottle of the newer verison at gnc lol

    the only time i use gnc is to try a new product and if i like it, i order it online and return the gnc one
    do they pro-rate the return? do you just say it gave you sides like stomach discomfort or whatever or do they even ask for a reason?
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    I ran this stuff a little while back and it gave me good energy for the gym and in turn i was pushing more weight with only one cap preworkout it was pretty good. When did they change the formula?
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    pro rate? idk what that is haha im a dumbass but no you jsut tell them it didnt work. or you cant handle the taste.. If there gonna sell you a product by saying ur gonna put on about 5 pounds of muscle using it, and you dont thats BS.

    Jcratty- they recently changed the formula with a Decoxy3 ? i think is what its called in there, i havent tried that version because gnc.com is the only on e that sells it and it said not intended for use by persons under 40?

    personally i havent seen side effects and i really do feel an instant rush of energy and its working good. I mean strength goes up every week so even if its just a mental thing i dont mind paying 25 a month for the mental edge haha... but im off to lift
    Bench 240
    deadlift 385
    Reverse Grip Bench/bench of floor/ weighted dips one of the 3 and then a pump 3 x 8 workout ill let u guys know the resuls when im back home ! peace
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