Started Havoc 1/9/09

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    Day 18
    Morning weight 226.
    Was planning on taking off tonight, but we will see......supposed to get walloped by a storm Tues night into Wed so might not be able to make it one of those two nights or even both so might try to squeeze out chest tonight.

    I usually do:

    chest and upper legs
    Back and a small two workout on biceps (want to improve biceps the most)
    Shoulders/traps/calves
    Arms (biceps and triceps)
    Then repeat. Typically try to go two days on, one off, then 3 on, one off if possible. All depends.

    chest
    flat bench dumbell - 4 - 5 sets; 10 reps until last set which is most weight for 6 - 8 reps
    incline (same sets as above)
    flys (same sets as above)
    Decline bench (every 2 - 3 weeks with same as above)

    Back
    Wided grip pulldowns
    Single arm row
    two handed row
    Close grip pull downs
    Bent over rows
    Rear pulldowns
    Every 2 - 3 weeks I try and do deadlifts

    Shoulders
    Shoulder Press
    Front raise (plates, dumbells, or cables)
    Delt row (on the bench)
    Rear Delt Raises
    Single arm shoulder press ( forgot name of machine)

    Arms
    triceps - Skullcrushers, dips, kickbacks, close grip bench, Pushdowns (both hands and then single handed), reverse pushdowns
    Biceps - seated curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, cable curls, hammer curls

    Legs - pretty basic - squats, press, ham curls, leg curls (quads)

    Pretty much follow for chest and back 4 sets with 10 reps and last set is max weight up to 6 - 8 reps
    Arms are 3 sets of 10 for each
    Shoulders are 4 sets of 8 - 10 for each

    right now I am not calorie counting. Doing more carb counting and protein counting to be honest. Figuring i am keeping on average between 200 and 250 grams of carbs per day.


    BTW...doing cariod 15 - 25 min each time I go which "says" it is burning 200 - 300 cals....eh.

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    well, evening workout was chest. Very tired today but still did ok. Pumps were nice as usual.

    Also did legs. Back pumps were VERY bad tonight. could not do cardio and just left afterwards.

    Anyways, posting some pics now. first was from Day 7, the next was from today, Day 18.

    Yes, I know I need to cut eventually. I just never got into it in the past...just went for strength.

    anyways, have fun with picking on me LoL



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    Maurice

    I read all the logs-- thanks for posting! good job man


    on 1/21/09--- your piss got darker and mostly or was this way in the AM..


    how is it now? have you gotten any bloodwork?

    reason i post this is cause my BUN (part of the kidneys function---other test would be creatinine) was elevated a bit with Havoc so be careful with the dark urine ---

    like others said-- more h2O

    prob its darker in AM cause you are not drinking water (obviously) as you sleep so you are getting more concentrated urea in the AM...

    check into the bloodwork, my liv enzymes were up a bit as well but I told my MD about the Epi -- hes cool and I continued on since it wasnt a big deal---
    he didnt even call me to tell me things were messed up (which they always do if) but I went in to get a copy to see changes from the Havoc (if indeed there were)

    boo
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    Quote Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    Maurice

    I read all the logs-- thanks for posting! good job man


    on 1/21/09--- your piss got darker and mostly or was this way in the AM..


    how is it now? have you gotten any bloodwork?

    reason i post this is cause my BUN (part of the kidneys function---other test would be creatinine) was elevated a bit with Havoc so be careful with the dark urine ---

    like others said-- more h2O

    prob its darker in AM cause you are not drinking water (obviously) as you sleep so you are getting more concentrated urea in the AM...

    check into the bloodwork, my liv enzymes were up a bit as well but I told my MD about the Epi -- hes cool and I continued on since it wasnt a big deal---
    he didnt even call me to tell me things were messed up (which they always do if) but I went in to get a copy to see changes from the Havoc (if indeed there were)

    boo
    hey thanks for that. Won't be getting bloodwork until after PCT. Piss is still darker in the morning, but it is not like it was right when I switched to 40mg. I have to drink close to 2 gallons now a day to keep it a lighter yellow. If i stray, it gets dark yellow but is no longer a "tea" colored.

    Definitely will get bloodwork and keep an eye on things.
    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    hey thanks for that. Won't be getting bloodwork until after PCT. Piss is still darker in the morning, but it is not like it was right when I switched to 40mg. I have to drink close to 2 gallons now a day to keep it a lighter yellow. If i stray, it gets dark yellow but is no longer a "tea" colored.

    Definitely will get bloodwork and keep an eye on things.
    Thanks!

    welcome man

    ya def. get the bloodwork--- its just as important, to me, as a well thought out and executed PCT
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    up the taurine for the back pumps!
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Overall, it seems Epistane worked fantastically well for you. This is a good log, pls keep it updated. I'm subbed.
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    Thanks
    Def gonna up the taurine. Woke up this morning and just feel blah. Eh, it happens.

    Anyways, morning weight of 227 flat.
    No workout tonight. Expecting 5 - 7 inches of snow between tonight and tomorrow so hopefully can work from home and then get to the gym earlier tomorrow evening.
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    subbed Maurice, keep it up
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    This is one f the best logs I've seen, nice work. And good job on the gains, man!
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    I hope he'll let us in on the bloodwork, too. A german user of Epistane had a pretty horrible experience with it, his HDL went downhill.
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    Looking like things are going good for ya man. I am at day 18 and have noticed the darkened urine thing also. Like you it is always more noted first thing in the morning. So your up 7 pounds now?

    I am at day 18 and have NOT noted any of the sides you are seeing. No acne, my libidio is still just like before, no shrinkage, but i have been feeling the low back pumps lately, been doing taurine 3 grams pre and post workout.

    Keep up the good work man
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic32 View Post
    Looking like things are going good for ya man. I am at day 18 and have noticed the darkened urine thing also. Like you it is always more noted first thing in the morning. So your up 7 pounds now?

    I am at day 18 and have NOT noted any of the sides you are seeing. No acne, my libidio is still just like before, no shrinkage, but i have been feeling the low back pumps lately, been doing taurine 3 grams pre and post workout.

    Keep up the good work man
    hey thanks

    Yeah got back acne centralized in my back. libido died quick though on me.....about a week in I guess. oh wells. And my nuts are smaller.

    Day 20 morning weight is 228.5

    Yesterday I wasn't feeling too hot. Got sweats all throughout the day and just did not feel normal in the head. I think I just needed to rest up. Got 10 hours of sleep and feel fine right now. Gonna head into work late today and hopefully get out to do back and cardio tonight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I hope he'll let us in on the bloodwork, too. A german user of Epistane had a pretty horrible experience with it, his HDL went downhill.
    yeah I will get it done after PCT and note any negative changes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    I hope he'll let us in on the bloodwork, too. A german user of Epistane had a pretty horrible experience with it, his HDL went downhill.
    me too

    mine went from 103----->29

    however since I cleaned up my diet totally--- the TC (total cholesterol) went from 168---->101 so Im still at the 3 ratio which is OK
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    Hoping to get some responses here since I am coming up on my 4th week. Not sure how much strenght/size increase to expect now.....or leaning out.......suggestions or opinions?

    Also, safe to say that I should run it 40 mg for the 4th week as usual? I was considering 50mg for week 5 if I run it out that long. What do you guys think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    Hoping to get some responses here since I am coming up on my 4th week. Not sure how much strenght/size increase to expect now.....or leaning out.......suggestions or opinions?

    Also, safe to say that I should run it 40 mg for the 4th week as usual? I was considering 50mg for week 5 if I run it out that long. What do you guys think?
    More is not always better. You've made nice gains so far. I don't think extending it for a 5th week would add much more. Carry on with the 40mg as planned Thats what i'd do
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chub View Post
    More is not always better. You've made nice gains so far. I don't think extending it for a 5th week would add much more. Carry on with the 40mg as planned Thats what i'd do
    law of diminishing returns. 5th week will likely give you gains, but reduced gains at a much higher cost to your body. Look at it like this, going ahead with pct means you are 1 week closer to starting a fresh clean new cycle.
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    I would go ahead and start the PCT as well. Might as well get out while you are this far ahead bro!
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    Thanks guys. I will stop then at either Day 28 or Day 30 and start my nolva then along with Lean Xtreme.
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    Day 21
    Morning weight 230.5.......weight recently flew up for some reason. Diet has been the same, if not less than what I was eating (skipped oatmeal yesterday).

    Lethargy has been rearing its ugly head. Been hard to get out of bed in the morning and feeling pretty tired throughout the day.

    Overall body feels sore....did back yesterday and put up great weight, but back pumps were insane. Had to stop a few times. Can't do deadlifts...hurt too bad.

    Heart rate on the ARC machine has dropped a lot since start.....that is a big plus for me.
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    Day 22
    Morning weight 230.5
    Still been feeling rather tired throughout the day and just overall "strange"

    Today is shoulder day.

    Nothing else new to report.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    Day 22
    Morning weight 230.5
    Still been feeling rather tired throughout the day and just overall "strange"

    Today is shoulder day.

    Nothing else new to report.
    I felt qutie strange yesterday too. zombie like while i walked around the house
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Day 23
    Morning weight 230
    Overall been tired. Back pumps are continual throughout the day. General feeling of soreness, moody, etc.... Back is painful along with abdominal area for some reason.

    Been told I look like crap...haha

    Also kinda feel that any gains I am making now are just more "fat" than anything. Kinda was considering stopping earlier than Day 28 but might as well continue it out.
    Planning on starting Nolva and Lean Xtreme at end of this week. Then PCS 2 weeks after that.

    anyways, I do have a question. I want to start the Dave Palumbo diet and am anticipating on losing 20 - 30 pounds by May. When would it be safe to start that. That diet is practically very very high protein and little to no carbs.

    Thanks
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    Day 24
    Morning weight 230........
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    Day 23
    Morning weight 230
    Overall been tired. Back pumps are continual throughout the day. General feeling of soreness, moody, etc.... Back is painful along with abdominal area for some reason.

    Been told I look like crap...haha

    Also kinda feel that any gains I am making now are just more "fat" than anything. Kinda was considering stopping earlier than Day 28 but might as well continue it out.
    Planning on starting Nolva and Lean Xtreme at end of this week. Then PCS 2 weeks after that.

    anyways, I do have a question. I want to start the Dave Palumbo diet and am anticipating on losing 20 - 30 pounds by May. When would it be safe to start that. That diet is practically very very high protein and little to no carbs.

    Thanks
    Have you checked BF% ? I felt like some of my gains were fat as well, and some was. BF went up slightly but still made excellent gains on lifts.
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    i just stumbled on this thread, i seem to be having similar effects to what ur talking about. i started a havoc/furazadrol recomp cycle a week ago (logging it, gonna add in DCP next week) , but im noticing some things already.
    i was wondering if u ever got the sleeping worked out? the first 6 days i pretty much did not sleep until like 3 or 4 am every night, it was pretty miserable. i thought it was just due to the timing of my last pill, and i stopped taking it aqbout 6 hours before i sleep, but i had a similar problem last night, just waking up frequently to piss. this is a major concern, as its gonna be a bit hard to make gains when im not sleeping well. (Aside from the obvious health concerns with it)Are u still having problems with this or did it subside naturally
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    Unhappy RE: Moody


    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    Day 23
    Morning weight 230
    Overall been tired. Back pumps are continual throughout the day. General feeling of soreness, moody, etc.... Back is painful along with abdominal area for some reason.

    Been told I look like crap...haha

    Also kinda feel that any gains I am making now are just more "fat" than anything. Kinda was considering stopping earlier than Day 28 but might as well continue it out.
    Planning on starting Nolva and Lean Xtreme at end of this week. Then PCS 2 weeks after that.

    anyways, I do have a question. I want to start the Dave Palumbo diet and am anticipating on losing 20 - 30 pounds by May. When would it be safe to start that. That diet is practically very very high protein and little to no carbs.

    Thanks
    This is a Great Log, thanks to everyone for your input.
    I am on day 12 at about 30mg a day & feeling .

    Does anyone think that running a little Trib and/or long Jack might help this zombie like daze and moodyness?
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    Day 25
    Morning weight 232. I ate Sh!t for superbowl. Had pretty much a whole thin crust pie and a bunch of wings. I needed a cheat day...big one I mean lol. been sick of the same crap every day.

    Overall just TIRED as anything. Feel weak but workouts are great. Had my PR of bench with dumbells on flat bench today.....110x8.
    but overall just feeling like total crap. Just want to sleep.

    As for BF%, no I didn't which I should have. It is strange because I definitely leaned out in the shoulders, chest, arms, but fat is seeming accumulating in my gut again. That has always been my biggest trouble spot.

    As for sleeping, it has cleared up about a 1 1/2 weeks in......sleeping like a baby. But having some seriously wacky dreams.....passed three nights I got into car accidents in my sleep...hmmmm....and the last one I hit a car with three asian people in it and they went flying across the road and then sped off......these things are vivid!

    As for my PCT, I do remember when I did hdrol that keeping my intake the same led to some more fat despite the lean xtreme. I think I am going to cut down on carbs considerably and take 3 - 5 protein shakes a day (double scoop to get close to 50g of protein). I am very carb sensitive. Probably will keep the oatmeal and just cut out the afternoon PBJ along with 1/2 the carbs at lunch.

    Figuring I am ending between 230 and 235 on this. I need to lose 25 - 30 pounds by summer....I know I can do it if I do atkins but that makes me weak. I did it two years ago and lost 18 pounds in a month. Upped the cardio, no carbs.....slimmed down quick.

    I know you are not supposed to cut during PCT, but would combining something like leviathan or DCP with lean xtreme be ok or should I wait 2 - 4 weeks.

    Again, PCT is
    Nolva (40 for the first two days then 20 for the remainder of the week) and then 20/10/10
    lean xtreme on day 1 of PCT
    Post cycle support starting Day 15 of PCT.
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    btw.....looks like I am going to kick it up a bit and order a bottle of DCP tomorrow....hopefully it will be here in time for PCT.
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    I'm on day 15 of my cycle. 7th day at 30mg. I think my body is taking 30mg a day pretty well. I do feel pretty tired in the afternoons and a bit zombie like but apart from that its going great,
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chub View Post
    I'm on day 15 of my cycle. 7th day at 30mg. I think my body is taking 30mg a day pretty well. I do feel pretty tired in the afternoons and a bit zombie like but apart from that its going great,
    you think you are gonna bump to 40? I am happy I did early in the cycle. Definitely my sweet spot. I don't think I would try 50 like I was thinking. Just gonna run it out to 30 days and call it a good cycle. Then focus on PCT and losing some excess fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice02 View Post
    you think you are gonna bump to 40? I am happy I did early in the cycle. Definitely my sweet spot. I don't think I would try 50 like I was thinking. Just gonna run it out to 30 days and call it a good cycle. Then focus on PCT and losing some excess fat.
    yeah last 7 days will be at 40
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chub View Post
    yeah last 7 days will be at 40


    40mg was the sweet spot for me and others have reported the same

    i did 50mg for 15 days--- no diff. really
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    Day 26
    Morning weight 230.5
    Ahhhh, lost some of that excess food lol. Just tired still. nothing else to report.
    Plus I am sick today so no gym.
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    Jan 2008
    Age
    34
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    945
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    555
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    Day 27
    Morning weight 230.5

    Starting to slowly cut back the carbs. During PCT I will be having 3 - 4 double scooped (46g protein) shakes throughout the day. Still will be enjoying my oatmeal in the AM but cutting out the PBJ and mid day carbs. Gonna up the chicken consumption during the day and night and more green veges.

    hoping to balance out the loss of carbs with intake in protein, thus leading to a decent attempt at some fat loss through PCT without losing muscle.
  38. Advanced Member
    maurice02's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    34
    Posts
    945
    Rep Power
    555
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    98.34%

    BTW....updating my PCT as follows

    Weeks 1 - 4 = Nolva/Post Cycle support/Lean Xtreme/DCP

    From what I was told this should serve as a pretty good PCT. Starting the PCS on Day 1 with Nolva as advised, and the combo of DCP/Lean Xtreme should lead to some fat loss while keeping up endurance as well as muscle mass.
  39. New Member
    mattiek's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
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    i think im startin this soon and this helped a lot
  40. Advanced Member
    maurice02's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    34
    Posts
    945
    Rep Power
    555
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    98.34%

    Evening of Day 27
    Did back....good workout but generally just tired now. Back pumps were bad bad bad.....dosed quite a bit of taurine...oh wells, expected.
    Anyways, if anyone has any comments on my PCT please let me know.
    Secondly, I need to cut.....I have no clue what my BF% is but it is not good LoL. I am gonna post up some pics now.
    I am super carb sensitive...always have been. I am hoping that if I boost up the cardio to burn 300 - 350 5x a week and cut down the carbs I should do ok during PCT. Gonna keep protein way up there.
    Any suggestions will be appreciated. I am hoping the combo of DCP and lean Xtreme do me well. DCP has shipped from Nutra......if it is here tomorrow I will start PCT Friday. IF not, I will wait till it comes and start the day after.
  

  
 

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